The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[1stcenturylady]

What kind of church were you going to where you didn't know you needed the Holy Spirit for 30 years?

The Seventh-day Adventist church teaches law.

 

[1stcenturylady]

A truly born again Christian hates the sin that binds them. They don't want a licence to sin, they want victory over it.
As for beating your wife, getting drunk every night, being a habitual thief, constantly using foul language. Yes, God will accept even such a wretched soul, then he will change them, by a righteousness of faith in Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit. NEITHER of which are available to the unsaved

To me that is still the Spirit DRAWING that person to full faith in Christ. They are still powerless.

 

[stuart lawrence]

What kind of church were you going to where you didn't know you needed the Holy Spirit for 30 years?

As I always say. Pentecostals/ many evangelicals could walk hand in hand with the RC church over justification.
Whip yourself into shape, purge yourself of all your sin, then, and only then will God accept you as his child

 

[stuart lawrence]

To me that is still the Spirit DRAWING that person to full faith in Christ. They are still powerless.

So you believe a person must defeat their sin, under a righteousness of observing the law, without the help of the Holy Spirit. Then God will place them in a saved state
I am confused. You Keep stressing to me the believer has the power to overcome sin because they have the Holy Spirit.
If you must cease all sin to be saved. YOU must overcome sin in your own strength, devoid of the Holy Spirit( rom8:9)

 

[1stcenturylady]

As I always say. Pentecostals/ many evangelicals could walk hand in hand with the RC church over justification.
Whip yourself into shape, purge yourself of all your sin, then, and only then will God accept you as his child

Here is the pendulum on salvation and grace:

G as unmerited favor <> G as Power <> Law

Stuart <> Me <> Jason

 

[stuart lawrence]

I'll add what if the poor chap dies before they become sinless. No Holy Spirit, no Christ.

God will have to wash his hands of him and cast him into the lake of fire,

 

[stuart lawrence]

Here is the pendulum on salvation and grace:

G as unmerited favor <> G as Power <> Law

Stuart <> Me <> Jason

Grace as power, you?
But you are saying sin must be overcome without grace. Only the saved gave grace, not the unsaved

 

[1stcenturylady]

So you believe a person must defeat their sin, under a righteousness of observing the law, without the help of the Holy Spirit. Then God will place them in a saved state
I am confused. You Keep stressing to me the believer has the power to overcome sin because they have the Holy Spirit.
If you must cease all sin to be saved. YOU must overcome sin in your own strength, devoid of the Holy Spirit( rom8:9)

No, we must REPENT. Then the Holy Spirit comes upon us to rid us of the desire. It is by the power of the Spirit of Christ. If we could overcome sin on our own, there would be no need for the Holy Spirit to be our helper.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Grace as power, you?
But you are saying sin must be overcome without grace. Only the saved gave grace, not the unsaved

These are our respective teachings.

The rest of your paragraph didn't make sense, nor does it seem you understand me.

 

[stuart lawrence]

No, we must REPENT. Then the Holy Spirit comes upon us to rid us of the desire. It is by the power of the Spirit of Christ. If we could overcome sin on our own, there would be no need for the Holy Spirit to be our helper.

The holy spirit does not dwell in the unsaved, only the saved( rom8:9)
You insist the u saved must overcome their sin to be saved. So they don't have the power of the holy spirit to over one sin

 

[1stcenturylady]

The holy spirit does not dwell in the unsaved, only the saved( rom8:9)
You insist the u saved must overcome their sin to be saved. So they don't have the power of the holy spirit to over one sin

I already gave you the order as I see it. Look, honey bunny, I've got to go to prayer meeting. See you later.

 

[stuart lawrence]

These are our respective teachings.

The rest of your paragraph didn't make sense, nor does it seem you understand me.

I am seriously confused.
You say
Grace is power
Only the saved have grace, not the unsaved. You say no one can be saved until they cease all their sin. Therefore you must believe you have to cease your sin without the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in you.
I think everyone else will understand the point I am making here

 

[stuart lawrence]

I already gave you the order as I see it. Look, honey bunny, I've got to go to prayer meeting. See you later.

I think prayer would be a good idea

 

[ToBeLoved]

No, we must REPENT. Then the Holy Spirit comes upon us to rid us of the desire. It is by the power of the Spirit of Christ. If we could overcome sin on our own, there would be no need for the Holy Spirit to be our helper.

The Holy Spirit does a lot more than help us overcome sin.

Does the Holy Spirit help us to overcome sin or convict us of our sin?

 

[1stcenturylady]

I am seriously confused.
You say
Grace is power
Only the saved have grace, not the unsaved. You say no one can be saved until they cease a their sin. Therefore you must believe you have to cease your sin without the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in you.
I think everyone else will understand the point I am making here

Not cease their sin because they can't. REPENT - CRY OUT TO GOD. He then gives the Holy Spirit to empower you to cease the sin. Without the Spirit, we can do nothing.

Gotta run.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The Holy Spirit does a lot more than help us overcome sin.

Does the Holy Spirit help us to overcome sin or convict us of our sin?

Of course, but right now we are talking about sin. He also teaches us what God's word means. And gives man gifts. To say nothing of healing, miracles, etc.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Not cease their sin because they can't. REPENT - CRY OUT TO GOD. He then gives the Holy Spirit to empower you to cease the sin. Without the Spirit, we can do nothing.

Gotta run.

If you have the Holy Spirit you are saved.
Yet on the one hand you say you must defeat your sin before you can be saved. Yet at the same time you say the Holy Spirit empowers you to cease sin.
The Holy Spirit can only empower the saved, not the unsaved. For he does not dwell in the unsaved, only the saved.
You need to reconsider your theology here

 

[Dan61861]

As I always say. Pentecostals/ many evangelicals could walk hand in hand with the RC church over justification.
Whip yourself into shape, purge yourself of all your sin, then, and only then will God accept you as his child

The missing factor...the belief in God's mercy.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[JLB777]

I apologize for taking so long to respond to this, with work it can be difficult to keep up. I do believe my salvation is secure. I do not believe that this believe is a salvation issue.

Now, I had given you a scripture Ephesians 1:13-14, that does teach eternal security. To make your point, you brutally misrepresented the scripture. We are not sealed with approval, we are sealed with the HOLY SPIRIT. It is God working in us, not God approving of us.

Brother, God seal is the Holy Spirit, as only those who believe have this seal of approval.


It's a seal from a king, that authenticates a document or such a being authentic.

That is the seal that is being referred to in Ephesians 1:13-14, not a seal such as a canning jar seal, but a seal of approval from a king or one in authority.

Those who are authentic believers, have this seal from God, the Holy Spirit.

The evidence that the Holy Spirit has been received in seen or heard, as the pattern of the Day of Pentecost has shown.

33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:33


JLB

 

[ToBeLoved]

God will have to wash his hands of him and cast him into the lake of fire,

smh. That's why the entire theology makes no sense.