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The Doctrines Of Grace

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Berean1

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Actually, I am a protestant, evangelical. Less Calvinist than Arminian...but not Arminian either. I am not a Baptist either...but you are evangelicals aren't you? I take it everyone here believes in sharing the gospel? You believe in the atoning death of Christ...and the necessity of the Resurrection for our transformed earthly bodies to heavenly ones, that look more like Christs?
 
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DeaconDean

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I am not a Baptist either

By your own admission, you should not be debating here.

In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology.

Link to this rule.

And you just admitted that:

I am not a Baptist either

So I respectfully ask that you cease debating the answers supplied here.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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TimRout

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REGENERATION PRECEDES FAITH
An Exegesis Of Ezekial 36


The Objection:
FaithfulArminian said:
Calvinists insist that regeneration preceeds faith, but this is impossible. Regeneration and justification are simultanious results of saving faith, so faith has to come first because the Bible says we're justified by faith [Ro. 5:1]. Frankly, Ezekiel 36:26 just doesn't say what Calvinists claim.

A Response:
Calvinists reject the assertion that "regeneration" occurs simultaneously with "justification"; rather, we hold that these events occur in immediate succession. The Scriptures teach that people are born into spiritual death on account of Adam's sin [1 Cor. 15:22]. The natural man is hostile to God and unable to please Him [Ro. 8:6-8] or understand the things of God [1 Cor. 2:14]. Though the natural man is helpless to escape his outcast state [Ro. 5:6], Christ died in payment for sins, thereby acquiring forgiveness for all who will believe [Jn. 3:16].

The Arminian misassessment of regeneration is rooted in a far deeper dilema -- a misassessment of sin. Most synergists argue that sin sickens man's spirit and makes him less prone to believe and obey God. Thus man needs some help, and this enabling help is provided through the General Atonement of Christ on the cross by way of prevenient grace to all.

Yet the Bible does not say man is "sick" with sin. Rather, the Scriptures consistently testify that the natural man is dead in his trespasses and sins [Eph. 2:1]. A dead man cannot ask for help, receive medicine, or interact with his rescuer in any way. He's DEAD! Rather, the one presiding over his corpse must work superveniently. There are many passages one might go to when demonstrating the exceedingly monergistic nature of the gospel. We will confine our discussion to a text that is frequently challenged by Arminians.


Ez. 36:22-38/NASB
{v22} Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went."

The "therefore" indicates a summation of verses 1 through 21 and God's exhilic judgment upon His people Israel. They were removed from the land on account of their gross disobedience, and this profained the name of Yahweh their perfect Savior. Consequently, it is Yahweh who takes action to remedy the situation. He does so, not for the sake of the people, but for the sake of His tarnished name. A perfect Savior saves perfectly, and thus God took action to redeem Israel. Similarly, God's chief purpose in saving His new covenant elect is the glorification of His holy name [Eph. 1:11-12].

{v23} "I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD," declares the Lord GOD, "when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight."

Notice the succession of "I will" statements in this passage. God's redemptive work is chiefly about HIM, not us. It's about showing off His holiness and exalting His great name. As Christians, we are the blessed recipients of grace, and grace cannot be meritted.

{v24-25} "For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols."

Notice that man's desires don't come into play here. God makes a series of absolute prophetic stipulations, and then carries them out. There is no consultation with men. There is no hint of human libertarianism.

{v26-27} "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances."

By definition, spiritual regeneration is an act of the Holy Spirit whereby God causes a spiritually dead person to come alive. While the Arminian presumptuously injects free will into passages like this, assuming God must somehow be responding to the self-generated faith of a wouldbe follower, the text teaches precisely the opposite. It is God who sovereignly removes the heart of stone and gives the heart of flesh. And what does the recipient do with his new heart and living spirit? He walks in faith filled obedience to His God, made most willing by God's grace. Please note that this radical transformation is CAUSED by Yahweh.


{v28-31} "You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God. Moreover, I will save you from all your uncleanness; and I will call for the grain and multiply it, and I will not bring a famine on you. I will multiply the fruit of the tree and the produce of the field, so that you will not receive again the disgrace of famine among the nations. Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and your abominations."

Again, notice how God dictates terms. He consults no one. He takes no opinion poles and seeks no approval from the very people He has set out to save. While this prophesy materialized in a small way through Ezra and Nehemiah, its ultimate fulfillment can be found in the gospel of grace by which all true believers are redeemed.

{v32-38} "I am not doing this for your sake," declares the Lord GOD, "let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel" Thus says the Lord GOD, "On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places will be rebuilt. The desolate land will be cultivated instead of being a desolation in the sight of everyone who passes by. They will say, 'This desolate land has become like the garden of Eden; and the waste, desolate and ruined cities are fortified and inhabited.' Then the nations that are left round about you will know that I, the LORD, have rebuilt the ruined places and planted that which was desolate; I, the LORD, have spoken and will do it."
Thus says the Lord GOD, "This also I will let the house of Israel ask Me to do for them: I will increase their men like a flock. Like the flock for sacrifices, like the flock at Jerusalem during her appointed feasts, so will the waste cities be filled with flocks of men. Then they will know that I am the LORD."

Beyond the plethora of further "I will" and "it will be" statements, take note of the one in red. Even the prayers of the people are foreordained by God. Lest we stumble into Hyper-Calvinism, it is important to remember that God holds all the cards, predetermining both the ends and the means.

The Conclusion:
Salvation is of the Lord alone --- pure, unfettered monergism. Therefore, the redemptive moment is actually an exceedingly rapid process.

a) God regenerates the lost person, removing the heart of stone and giving a soft heart that is ready to believe and obey.

b) This immediately results in an eruption of willing faith.

c) This faith immediately results in justification before God.

 
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DeaconDean

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I was asked to step in and give my opinion on the following passages:

"8τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ πίστεως: καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν, θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον: 9οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων, ἵνα μή τις καυχήσηται. 10αὐτοῦ γάρ ἐσμεν ποίημα, κτισθέντες ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ ἐπὶ ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς οἷς προητοίμασεν ὁ θεὸς ἵνα ἐν αὐτοῖς περιπατήσωμεν."

Specifically as "τοῦτο" relates to "χάριτί" and "πίστεως".

The exegesis of this passage requires that I list several definitions.

"τοῦτο" is listed in my Greek Lexicon (The New Analytical Greek Lexicon, Wesley J. Perschbacher) as:

"τοῦτο" - nom. sg. neut. demonstrative pronoun, or "τοῦτο" -acc. sg. neut. demonstative pronoun.

"τοῦτο" takes it meaning from the root word: "οὗτος" which means:

this, this person or thing, used by way of contempt, this fellow, "auto tοῦτο", this very thing, this same thing, eis auto touto, and elliptically, auto touto, for this same purpose, on this account, kai outos, and moreover, kai touto, and that too, touto uev, touto de, partly -partly.

We must dimiss the latter as "τοῦτο" being accusative, as it "this" would receive the action. So therefore, it must be the earlier.

The word "τοῦτο" (this) is put in its particular place as it takes the place of understood subjects (grace, faith) and shows that neither are the work of men.

Faith (πίστεως) will not save you. You are saved by grace (χάριτί). Faith is only the means by which that grace is grasped. Faith, in and of itself has no value. You are not saved "εἰς" "on account of" or "because of", "into", "as far as", "to the extent of" "until", "in order to", "for", "with a view to", "with reference to", "in accordnace with" faith, but by shear grace alone. Faith is the instrument we use to reach out and grasp who Jesus Christ was, and what He did for us.

To put it this way:

Faith justifies only as an instrument which God has appointed to the apprehension and application of Christ’s righteousness. When we say faith is the instrument of our justification, understand that it is not meant that faith is the instrument whereby God justifies us, by no means, rather, we mean that faith is the instrument whereby we receive Jesus Christ. Christ has merited righteousness for us, and faith in Christ is what renders it right in God’s sight that the purchased blessing is assigned. Faith unites us to Christ. Having been made one with Christ in spirit, God now considers us as one with Him in the Law.

We are justified by faith, not for faith, not for what faith is, rather, because of what faith receives.

Very plainly put, "τοῦτο" (this) is placed in the sentence so that the reader would know that neither "χάριτί" (grace) or "πίστεως" (faith) are neither one, works done by men. "not of yourselves, lest any man could boast".

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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TimRout

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Thanks so much Dean. So then, we may summarize as follows:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." [Eph. 2:8-9/NASB]

The word "that" (demonstrative pronoun) refers to every noun preceding it in the sentence -- those being "grace" and "faith". Therefore, neither grace NOR faith originate with the believer. Both are a free gift of God. Those who insist that God gives the grace but we must come up with the faith, are in error. Saving faith is received from God.

"Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ...." [2 Ptr. 1:1/NASB]
 
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TimRout

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The Gospel
What is the gospel? The gospel is the message that Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords, voluntarily laid down His priceless life in payment for the sins of all who will repent and believe. God has sovereignly decreed that through the preaching of this gospel, faith will come to life in the hearts of His elect [Ro. 10:17]. The biblical gospel is entirely monergistic and entails great suffering on the part of the disciple [Mt. 16:24]. It is my unqualified belief that a failure to preach the gospel of grace in all its biblical glory, is the chief reason so many Baptist churches are failing to win the lost today. We must cast aside our politics and divest ourselves of any concern for the opinions of men. Rather, we must boldly proclaim the foolishness of the cross to all who will listen, prayerfully receiving those whom God chooses to call to Himself through faith in Christ.
 
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RobertZ

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The Gospel
What is the gospel? The gospel is the message that Jesus Christ, the King of kings and Lord of lords, voluntarily laid down His priceless life in payment for the sins of all who will repent and believe.


So anyone who will repent and believe can and will be saved. Also isnt the act of repenting not a part of our own free will? Isnt this something that we must do on our own?
 
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TimRout

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So anyone who will repent and believe can and will be saved. Also isnt the act of repenting not a part of our own free will? Isnt this something that we must do on our own?
Nothing is a part of our own "free will" Robert. Free will is a myth. The Bible teaches that people have a will, but it is a limited will. The natural man is enslaved to sin and has no desire to repent. The elected man is called of God and will eventually come to repentant, saving faith in Christ.
 
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Atsu

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Nothing is a part of our own "free will" Robert. Free will is a myth. The Bible teaches that people have a will, but it is a limited will. The natural man is enslaved to sin and has no desire to repent. The elected man is called of God and will eventually come to repentant, saving faith in Christ.

But don't we have a choice whether or not to accept His calling? Or are you saying God only calls certain people? Isn't God not restricted by time? Couldn't the elect be those who accepted God's calling whom God foreknew would?

We don't fully know or fully understand God's motives. We know God isn't restricted neither by man's choice to His calling. He can intervene just like He did with Saul to fulfill out His plan.

Correct me if I'm wrong D: But could we say God gave adam and even free will and they chose to disobey? So now we always choose sin, but do we still have a choice whether or not to accept His calling? His "wooing"? :p
 
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TimRout

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But don't we have a choice whether or not to accept His calling? Or are you saying God only calls certain people? Isn't God not restricted by time? Couldn't the elect be those who accepted God's calling whom God foreknew would?
Great questions. Firstly, the Scriptures teach that God calls only those whom He plans to redeem [Ro. 8:29-30] See HERE for more. Secondly, God does indeed elect people according to His foreknowledge, but God's foreknowledge is active, not passive. That means "foreknew" indicates something God caused to happen, not merely the passive transfer of information concerning who would freely believe.
We don't fully know or fully understand God's motives. We know God isn't restricted neither by man's choice to His calling. He can intervene just like He did with Saul to fulfill out His plan.
Two thoughts: Firstly, we most certainly DO know God's motives; He has revealed them in Scripture. It is God's chief motivation to bring glory to His holy name by saving people [Eph. 1:12]. Secondly, you are right -- God is in no way restricted by the choices we make. In fact, even our sinful choices ultimately result in God's righteous ends. See COMPATIBLISM.
Correct me if I'm wrong :D But could we say God gave adam and eve free will and they chose to disobey? So now we always choose sin, but do we still have a choice whether or not to accept His calling? His "wooing"? :p
It is possible to argue that Adam and Eve were the only human beings in history to have a truly free will, and some Calvinists espouse that position. But the Scriptures make it fairly clear that God knew the fall would occur even prior to creation. When speaking of those who would NOT worship the Beast of Revelation, the following is noted: "And the Beast was allowed to make war against...everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain." [Rev. 13:8] So then, if the names of future believers were recorded in the Lamb's Book Of Life before the world began, then it seems clear God knew He would need to be saving people from their sins. Therefore, even though Adam and Eve bear full responsibility for their rebellion, it is compatibilistically true that God also sovereignly decreed the fall.
 
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Jeffwhosoever

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How do any of us know absolutely for certain that we are the Elect? Other than experiencing the voice of the Holy Spirit telling us we are saved? How do we know for 100% certain when we are saved? We start sinning less and less each day? How would we know we aren't fooling ourselves into thinking we are saved when we may not be? I'm sure someone has answers to these, but they stem from this doctrine of predestination that I'm not disputing - I just want to fully understand the ultimate ramifications of that belief (or truth).
 
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mlqurgw

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How do any of us know absolutely for certain that we are the Elect? Other than experiencing the voice of the Holy Spirit telling us we are saved? How do we know for 100% certain when we are saved? We start sinning less and less each day? How would we know we aren't fooling ourselves into thinking we are saved when we may not be? I'm sure someone has answers to these, but they stem from this doctrine of predestination that I'm not disputing - I just want to fully understand the ultimate ramifications of that belief (or truth).
Faith is the evidence of election. Paul told the Tessilonians in 1Thess. 1:4-10 that he knew that they were elect and then gave the reasons why. In verse 5 he knew they were elect because the Gospel came to them in power. In verse 6 he knew they were elect because they became followers of Christ. In verse 7 and 8 it was because they proclaimed the Gospel and became examples. In verse 9 it was because they turned from idols to serve the living God. And in verse 10 he knew they were elect because they waited for the return of Christ. Assurance of salvation never comes from anything in us or from anything we do. If it does we would never have any assurance. Assuance comes from the faithfulness of God to His Word. He said all who believe are saved and I take Him at His word. I do not believe as I ought to or as much as I should or even as much as most probably but I do believe Him.
 
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TimRout

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Knowing For Certain

How can a person know for certain that he's saved, and therefore one of God's elect?

[1 Jn. 5:13] "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

The Bible tells us that a person can know for sure that he has eternal life. The things of which John wrote pertain to the gospel. Therefore, intrinsic to the gospel message is an assurance of genuine rebirth. While no one can know if his neighbor is of the elect, we can certainly gain confidence in our own eternal destinies. Here are some thoughts that might be helpful in measuring your own spiritual status:

1. Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ [Mk. 1:15]. An authentic Christian lives a life characterized by continuous repentance and faith.

2. Test yourself to see if your life shows evidence of transformation in Christ [2 Cor. 13:5]. While all Christians sin sometimes, the truly saved person loves Christ and hates his own wickedness [Ro. 7:24-25].

3. Examine your lifestyle for ever increasing spiritual fruit [Gal. 5:22; Eph. 2:10].

4. Observe the ways in which God is using you to minister to others, even if they don't acknowledge it [Ac. 7:25].

5. Meditate on your attitude toward the Scriptures [Ps. 119:11]. A genuinely saved person labors to consume the Word of God daily.

 
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Jeffwhosoever

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I have an acquintance who professed Christ and has strayed and neither worships nor attends church. Her lifestyle doesn't appear consistent with a Christian lifestyle, but she believes in once saved always saved and as a young teenager she accepted Christ as her savior and repented. Has she lost her salvation? Would you say she never really had it to start with? I hardly know of a single Christian that hasn't strayed at some point and back slid. What does this mean for them?
 
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Atsu

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Great questions. Firstly, the Scriptures teach that God calls only those whom He plans to redeem [Ro. 8:29-30] See for more. Secondly, God does indeed elect people according to His foreknowledge, but God's foreknowledge is active, not passive. That means "foreknew" indicates something God caused to happen, not merely the passive transfer of information concerning who would freely believe.Two thoughts: Firstly, we most certainly DO know God's motives; He has revealed them in Scripture. It is God's chief motivation to bring glory to His holy name by saving people [Eph. 1:12]. Secondly, you are right -- God is in no way restricted by the choices we make. In fact, even our sinful choices ultimately result in God's righteous ends. See .It is possible to argue that Adam and Eve were the only human beings in history to have a truly free will, and some Calvinists espouse that position. But the Scriptures make it fairly clear that God knew the fall would occur even prior to creation. When speaking of those who would NOT worship the Beast of Revelation, the following is noted: "And the Beast was allowed to make war against...everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain." [Rev. 13:8] So then, if the names of future believers were recorded in the Lamb's Book Of Life before the world began, then it seems clear God knew He would need to be saving people from their sins. Therefore, even though Adam and Eve bear full responsibility for their rebellion, it is compatibilistically true that God also sovereignly decreed the fall.

Okay, thanks for clearing some things up.

And sorry, i mean't we can't fully understand the way He does things.
 
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TimRout

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I have an acquintance who professed Christ and has strayed and neither worships nor attends church. Her lifestyle doesn't appear consistent with a Christian lifestyle, but she believes in once saved always saved and as a young teenager she accepted Christ as her savior and repented. Has she lost her salvation? Would you say she never really had it to start with? I hardly know of a single Christian that hasn't strayed at some point and back slid. What does this mean for them?
There are two options for your friend:

1. She is genuinely saved and will one day be called back to obedience.

2. She was never a Christian to begin with and has yet to be genuinely saved.


"The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing, but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently. Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them." [Heb. 7:23-25/NASB]

The solution in either case is to preach the gospel to her.
 
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