The doctrine of hell

[Setyoufree]

"Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." (John 1)

Whatever hell is, God made it.

Then taking your theology to its natural conclusion then God made sin.

 

[NannaNae]

rotf.. Bingo "Through him all things were made"

Bingo! hell and sin and Death is not a thing he can hold together !

God did not creating nothing! man did !

God only created Things and holds all things together!
Hell/death is not a thing it is an absence and an authority men use to control other people and even God !

 

[seeingeyes]

Then taking your theology to its natural conclusion then God made sin.

He thought this world up, and then He put it in action. There's no getting around that, and I don't think God needs anyone to "pass the buck" to.

 

[seeingeyes]

rotf.. Bingo "Through him all things were made"

Bingo! hell and sin and Death is not a thing he can hold together !

God did not creating nothing! man did !

God only created Things and holds all things together!
Hell is not a thing it is an absence and an authority men use to control other people !

It doesn't sound like you believe the "traditional" idea of hell that the OP is referring to. Is that correct?

 

[Setyoufree]

He thought this world up, and then He put it in action. There's no getting around that, and I don't think God needs anyone to "pass the buck" to.

So did God make sin?

 

[Setyoufree]

So did God make sin?

Let me help you....

The answer is "no"!!!

Turn to Ez 28:12 'Thus says the Lord God: "You (Lucifer) were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. 14 "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.

Clearly God created Lucifer perfect, full of wisdom and in perfect beauty, until iniquity was found in him.

Iniquity is the opposite of God's love. God's love is agape. Agape is a love that is not self-seeking. Iniquity is a love that is self-seeking. Iniquity therefore is based on the love of self and completely goes against God's self-emptying agape love.

Therefore God did not make sin. Satan is the originator of "sin & death".

 

[seeingeyes]

So did God make sin?

2 People (male and female)
1 Tempter
1 Forbidden tree

Put all ingredients into a garden and mix well.

Can you think of a better recipe for sin?

At any rate, there would be no sin if God had never said "Let there be..."

 

[NannaNae]

please guys read Romans!

now yes God did create the fire pit , a pit/footstool and you want to blame him for that?
that footstool that he will put the death / that void/the hell men have created into .
because that authority/ void/ absence of God's life and that hell and it;'s authority is an eternal void .
yes He created and Holds together the Pit that will contain everything death /hell is. and men have the choice to go with their own creations and thoughts and their authorities over others or to Go with him and life.

 

[Setyoufree]

Therefore God did not make sin. Satan is the originator of "sin & death".

2 Peter 2: "He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly."

Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Sodom & Gomorrah are an example of what will happen to those who ultimately and persistently reject Christ.

Now, the question is, does God do the burning? Does God create "the lake of fire" - i.e., "fire and brimstone" that destroys the wicked?

 

[Setyoufree]

2 People (male and female)
1 Tempter
1 Forbidden tree

Put all ingredients into a garden and mix well.

Can you think of a better recipe for sin?

At any rate, there would be no sin if God had never said "Let there be..."

Your theology is off (and I'm being nice).

Lucifer fell in heaven, not here on earth. He came to earth when he was not allowed to develop his version of love in heaven. However, God did not create the devil. God did not create sin. Comprehend?

 

[seeingeyes]

please guys read Romans!

now yes God did create the fire pit , a pit/footstool and you want to blame him for that?

You are the one who said man made it...

 

[Setyoufree]

2 People (male and female)
1 Tempter
1 Forbidden tree

Put all ingredients into a garden and mix well.

Can you think of a better recipe for sin?

What is sin (singular)?

 

[seeingeyes]

Let me help you....

The answer is "no"!!!

Turn to Ez 28:12 'Thus says the Lord God: "You (Lucifer) were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. 14 "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.

Clearly God created Lucifer perfect, full of wisdom and in perfect beauty, until iniquity was found in him.

Iniquity is the opposite of God's love. God's love is agape. Agape is a love that is not self-seeking. Iniquity is a love that is self-seeking. Iniquity therefore is based on the love of self and completely goes against God's self-emptying agape love.

Therefore God did not make sin. Satan is the originator of "sin & death".

When was Lucifer filled with violence because of the abundance of his trade (Ezekiel 28:16 and 18)? I don't think this passage is about him. Perhaps it is about the king of Tyre.

But even if it is, surely Lucifer did not will himself into existence. Somebody made him. And that somebody well aware of what would come next. (Unless you believe that God can be surprised by his own creation?)

 

[Setyoufree]

2 Peter 2: "He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly."

Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Sodom & Gomorrah are an example of what will happen to those who ultimately and persistently reject Christ.

Now, the question is, does God do the burning? Does God create "the lake of fire" - i.e., "fire and brimstone" that destroys the wicked?

What cities perished in the fires?

Deut 29:23 "the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the LORD overthrew in fierce anger."

Notice that four cities were overthrown:

1] Sodom

2] Gomorrah

3] Adamah

4] Zeboiim

But why does God attribute these calamities to His doing?

Go to Luke 9:51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up, that He (Jesus) steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem, 52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him. 53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?" 55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them." And they went to another village.

IF God came to save sinners, then why would He destroy them?

Go to Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up....


So God's anger can be described as His reluctant departure from those who persistently reject Him. Why do I say reluctant? Well, did Jesus destroy the Samaritans because they would not receive Him? No!

Then why does He give those who persist in unbelief up? Because God's love cannot force or coerce. He never abandons anyone out of human anger.....Therefore divine anger is the reluctant departure from those who reject Him.

 

[Setyoufree]

When was Lucifer filled with violence because of the abundance of his trade (Ezekiel 28:16 and 18)? I don't think this passage is about him. Perhaps it is about the king of Tyre.

It's about both....

But even if it is, surely Lucifer did not will himself into existence. Somebody made him. And that somebody well aware of what would come next. (Unless you believe that God can be surprised by his own creation?)

God created Luicfer perfect. No earthly King is made perfect.

Lucifer, after sometime, developed iniquity. God didn't create sin.

No, God knew Lucifer would rebel against His agape love....But He created him anyway. Why? The Bible doesn't say....

 

[seeingeyes]

What cities perished in the fires?

Deut 29:23 "the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the LORD overthrew in fierce anger."

Notice that four cities were overthrown:

1] Sodom

2] Gomorrah

3] Adamah

4] Zeboiim

But why does God attribute these calamities to His doing?

Go to Luke 9:51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up, that He (Jesus) steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem, 52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him. 53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?" 55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them." And they went to another village.

IF God came to save sinners, then why would He destroy them?

Go to Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up....


So God's anger can be described as His reluctant departure from those who persistently reject Him. Why do I say reluctant? Well, did Jesus destroy the Samaritans because they would not receive Him? No!

Then why does He give those who persist in unbelief up? Because God's love cannot force or coerce. He never abandons anyone out of human anger.....Therefore divine anger is the reluctant departure from those who reject Him.

I believe that it is excellent to read the Scriptures through the lens of Christ and his actions, just as you are doing here.

 

[Setyoufree]

What cities perished in the fires?

1] Sodom

2] Gomorrah

3] Adamah

4] Zeboiim

Then why does He give those who persist in unbelief up? Because God's love cannot force or coerce. He never abandons anyone out of human anger.....Therefore divine anger is the reluctant departure from those who reject Him.

Connect the dots....

Zeboiim - Online Bible Study Tools

 

[seeingeyes]

It's about both....



God created Luicfer perfect. No earthly King is made perfect.

Ok, there's no need for us to dispute that, so we'll run with your view here.

Lucifer, after sometime, developed iniquity. God didn't create sin.

No, God knew Lucifer would rebel against His agape love....But He created him anyway. Why? The Bible doesn't say....

The bold is answered here: "For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake."(1 Peter 1)

For some reason, God decided that a world in which his son would die for the sins of others was the world He wanted to make.

 

[BobRyan]

2 Peter 2: "He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly."

Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Sodom & Gomorrah are an example of what will happen to those who ultimately and persistently reject Christ.

Now, the question is, does God do the burning? Does God create "the lake of fire" - i.e., "fire and brimstone" that destroys the wicked?

Yes I believe that is correct. He creates it.

In Rev 20 he raises the wicked to life after the 1000 years -- and then judges them in the Great White Throne judgment and then puts them in the Lake of Fire also in Rev 20.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

And all the texts have to be included in on this subject as they apply - - including these.

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[FONT=&quot]Ps 104.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
35 Let [/FONT]sinners be consumed from the earth
And let the wicked be no more
Bless the LORD, O my soul
Praise the LORD!


[FONT=&quot]Rev 20[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Mal 4[/FONT]
1 “For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says the Lord of hosts, “so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.” 2 “But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall. 3 You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the Lord of hosts.

Jude 7
6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal (everlasting) fire.

[FONT=&quot]Ps 37[/FONT]
9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

[FONT=&quot]Ezek 18 [/FONT]
4"Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is MineThe soul who sins will die.

[FONT=&quot]Romans[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 6[/FONT]
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.
22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[FONT=&quot] Matt 10
28 ""Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather [/FONT]fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


[FONT=&quot]Rev 14:10[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.


[/FONT]