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Does the Bible you use have these two verses?
Genesis 19:24-25
(24) Then the LORD [יהוה/YHWH] rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD [יהוה/YHWH] out of heaven;
(25) And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
I have a reading validation does that qualify for knowing about genre in literature and common literary rules needed for reading for comprehension? If not we can tackle it with what I do for a living, which is writing...or maybe my teaching background will convince you....ah well, it is easy to throw around accusations but hard to defend your view when you have nothing to base that view on.What an extraordinarily material view of God this presents. Do you understand the role of genre in literature (not to mention interpretation!) at all?
a point that no matter what you are told you can dismiss what another poster says and claim that that is good, sincere communication? I have repeatedly told you that from the standpoint of scripture it isn't punishment and even showed you why I say that. to which you insist I defend the position that it is punishment. How do you not see the flaw in that and how can you not understand why I had to correct you again before i could answer your question? Seriously, how do you not get that that is dishonest communication on your part? It's cool with me if we are done, I personally like to have a fair exchange of ideas, but how do you NOT understand that it is not communication to demand someone defend a position that they do NOT have in the first place?The answer may not be, but I ask a simple question on what exactly the punishment entails and I get all this from you, then try polity to end it to no avail.
How bout "we're done, Razzel"
And try not to take offense to that, it's really not intended as anything but a way to bluntly get my point across, a point that I've had no luck with up to now.
huh? What are you asking me for heavens' sake? The Lamb's Book of Life is the name given to the record of who hasn't...I am beyond confused as to what you want me to defend here...If you could provide a scripture that says eternal life is given to the lost and the saved it would be of help.
Joh_3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh_10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh_12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Joh_17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Rom_2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom_5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1Ti_6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Tit_1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Tit_3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1Jn_1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
1Jn_2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1Jn_3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Jn_5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1Jn_5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Jud_1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
huh? What are you asking me for heavens' sake? The Lamb's Book of Life is the name given to the record of who hasn't...I am beyond confused as to what you want me to defend here...
we go to eternity with God is not, we go to eternity away from God, aka hell.
I have a reading validation does that qualify for knowing about genre in literature and common literary rules needed for reading for comprehension? If not we can tackle it with what I do for a living, which is writing...or maybe my teaching background will convince you....ah well, it is easy to throw around accusations but hard to defend your view when you have nothing to base that view on.
hum...when did eternal life become separation from God? I'm confused...What you are saying is both the saved and the lost are given eternal life.
I know all those passages and none of them disagree with what I have said. You on the other hand have made false claims about what I said....I realize my post #44 is a bit long, but perhaps you should take a few minutes to read it.
lol okay then...you can't even respond to me and what I actually said but you have the authority to judge me based on what you don't understand about what I said...that is pretty cool, not sure how that works, but cool.Notwithstanding your alleged credentials, the conclusions I reached regarding the inconsistencies in your interpretation are left unchallenged. Since your credentials will certainly not impress me, how about dealing with the actual issues?
And this has what to do with Genesis 19:24-25? Any scripture which doesn't say what you want it to just dismiss it as a figure of speech? What is your method of determining which verses are literal and which are figurative?Yep.
It also says that if your right hand offends you to cut it off, and if your right eye offends you to pluck it out.
Did you do that?
If not, why not?
And this has what to do with Genesis 19:24-25? Any scripture which doesn't say what you want it to just dismiss it as a figure of speech? What is your method of determining which verses are literal and which are figurative?
"If the plain sense makes good sense then it is nonsense to look for any other sense." For example, we know that Jesus was not literally a door, a piece of bread, a vine etc. so we can logically conclude that those were figures of speech. But for some folks, as I said, their criteria is anything which contradicts or disproves their doctrines they dismiss as figurative.Hummmm?
How do YOU determine such?
Curious don'cha'know?
http://yoganonymous.com/pope-francis-hell-fire-adam-eve-real/
There isn't a literal hell so sayeth the Pope.
Yep.
It also says that if your right hand offends you to cut it off, and if your right eye offends you to pluck it out.
Did you do that?
If not, why not?
If it is there, we go to eternity with God is not, we go to eternity away from God, aka hell.
God's love toward everyone is infinite, but it wouldn't matter. If a crime has been committed, it's been committed.
God's "love" is far different from what you understand to be "love." This can be shown throughout Scripture. You're suggesting that God's love somehow prevents him from punishing the wicked. I don't see how you can arrive at that conclusion.
Actually I don't understand that theologically at all. The Bible clear says there are some who are righteous: Noah, Abraham, Job, David, Paul, Peter, John, etc., are great examples. I don't think it follows at all that "we're all guilty of the murder of Christ." I think that the idea that we're all uncontrollably wicked is very misguided theology.
This is some of the worst theology that I have ever heard. Of course God has to justify what he does! "Divine prerogative" can be an excuse to commit even the worst of crimes. There's a saying that "might doesn't equal right," and I think that it applies here.
Shocking theology.
Not really a logical problem at all. I don't see why there's any "double punishment" for something that's already an infinite (God's love).
If there could be something urged against my ideas in my OP, it would be statements of Christ that there are varying levels of punishment in hell:
"15 Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city." Mt. 10:15 (NASB)
Etc. However, my line of reasoning in the OP indicates that all are equally guilty. I would suggest, then, that all are equally guilty of the basic crimes outlined in the OP, and then that they add to those basic crimes (murder of man and murder of God) other crimes, some which merit more punishment than others.
I think that a lot of it depends upon the nature of the "torture" itself. If we are talking about extreme physical pain, like what a fire would cause upon someone, then I have a real problem with a loving God doing such to anyone for all eternity. However, if instead we are looking at God sending souls to a dark and lonely place, then I do not have nearly as much a problem with an eternity in Hell, as long as we are talking about souls that truly commit horrendous deeds, like murder or rape or child abuse or spousal abuse.
As far as the contention that all sins are the same before God, I believe that such a thesis is very flawed.
Rumor has it that one of the famous Church Fathers actually cut of his private parts, for fear he would go to Hell.
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