The Doctrine of Eternal Security-Is It Biblical?

[Normann]

The Doctrine of Eternal Security-Is It Biblical is a false teaching...

There are many examples of being lost after being saved in the scriptures.

One good example is St. John 6:66

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

 

[Isaiah 53]

Clearly, you misunderstand.

1. What happens if someone does end up sinning in one of these ways, or worse?

If they have a repentant heart (changed view toward sins), they will confess their sin to God, and God will forgive them.

And what then, if they died prior to repenting?

PAX CHRISTI

 

[Lynn73]

Anthony,
I would present an answer based on my beliefs and according to what I have gleened from the Bible. I'm one who believes in O.S.A.S. But as you will find out, in this forum you will get a wide range of answers both positive and negitive. Like I said, I would answer but based on past experiences, I will leave the answers to others and not get bashed as I have in the past. Good luck searching for your answers.

You aren't the only OSAS Christian here! Salvation is a gift, not earned by us in any way. So God takes it back when we sin and we have to keep getting saved? I don't think so. Why do people think that we can keep ourselves when we couldn't save ourselves to begin with. I used to agonize over this years ago as a new Christian when I first heard the doctrine that you could lose your salvation. God answered me on it through His word and a book I read titled "Salvation is Forever." I don't believe the salvation Jesus purchased with His own blood is temporary.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

The Doctrine of Eternal Security-Is It Biblical is a false teaching...

There are many examples of being lost after being saved in the scriptures.

One good example is St. John 6:66

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

John 6:66 proves nothing of the sort. It is an example of what is explained in Matthew 7:23 (23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!') and 1 John 2:19 (19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.)

 

[Isaiah 53]

You aren't the only OSAS Christian here! Salvation is a gift, not earned by us in any way. So God takes it back when we sin and we have to keep getting saved? I don't think so. Why do people think that we can keep ourselves when we couldn't save ourselves to begin with. I used to agonize over this years ago as a new Christian when I first heard the doctrine that you could lose your salvation. God answered me on it through His word and a book I read titled "Salvation is Forever." I don't believe the salvation Jesus purchased with His own blood is temporary.

Are those who espouse OSAS incapable of sin?

PAX CHRISTI

 

[GrinningDwarf]

And what then, if they died prior to repenting?

PAX CHRISTI

Do you really think that a sovereign God, a God who commands the very elements of nature, the God who can declare

2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel
with words without knowledge?


3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.

5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?

6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone-

7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels [a] shouted for joy?

8 "Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb,

9 when I made the clouds its garment
and wrapped it in thick darkness,

10 when I fixed limits for it
and set its doors and bars in place,

11 when I said, 'This far you may come and no farther;
here is where your proud waves halt'?

12 "Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,

13 that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?

14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.

15 The wicked are denied their light,
and their upraised arm is broken.

16 "Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea
or walked in the recesses of the deep?

17 Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen the gates of the shadow of death [b] ?

18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?
Tell me, if you know all this.

19 "What is the way to the abode of light?
And where does darkness reside?

20 Can you take them to their places?
Do you know the paths to their dwellings?

21 Surely you know, for you were already born!
You have lived so many years!

22 "Have you entered the storehouses of the snow
or seen the storehouses of the hail,

23 which I reserve for times of trouble,
for days of war and battle?

24 What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed,
or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?

25 Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain,
and a path for the thunderstorm,

26 to water a land where no man lives,
a desert with no one in it,

27 to satisfy a desolate wasteland
and make it sprout with grass?

28 Does the rain have a father?
Who fathers the drops of dew?

29 From whose womb comes the ice?
Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens

30 when the waters become hard as stone,
when the surface of the deep is frozen?

31 "Can you bind the beautiful [c] Pleiades?
Can you loose the cords of Orion?

32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons [d]
or lead out the Bear [e] with its cubs?

33 Do you know the laws of the heavens?
Can you set up God's [f] dominion over the earth?

34 "Can you raise your voice to the clouds
and cover yourself with a flood of water?

35 Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?
Do they report to you, 'Here we are'?

36 Who endowed the heart [g] with wisdom
or gave understanding to the mind [h] ?

37 Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?
Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens

38 when the dust becomes hard
and the clods of earth stick together?

39 "Do you hunt the prey for the lioness
and satisfy the hunger of the lions

40 when they crouch in their dens
or lie in wait in a thicket? 41 Who provides food for the raven
when its young cry out to God
and wander about for lack of food?

Job 38:2-41

would let that happen? Nobody dies before their time. God is in control!

 

[Isaiah 53]

Do you really think that a sovereign God, a God who commands the very elements of nature, the God who can declare



would let that happen? Nobody dies before their time. God is in control!

So, you believe, as a Calvanist, that no one who is truly saved will die without repenting? I am not looking for debate, but to understand what you believe.

PAX CHRISTI

 

[GrinningDwarf]

Are those who espouse OSAS incapable of sin?

PAX CHRISTI

Not at all...not as long as we're wrapped in this coil of flesh. The difference is how we respond to that sin. Do we shrug it of and say something like "Oh, well...I'm only human", or does our sin cause us to press even deeper into the arms of the Father? Is our goal to be shed of our sin and to be made more and more like Jesus? Is our attitude "I'm sorry...that I got caught?" or "I'm sorry that I got hurt" or "I'm sorry it didn't work out the way I wanted it to work"? Or is it "I'm sorry, Lord, that I have sinned against you"?

 

[GrinningDwarf]

So, you believe, as a Calvanist, that no one who is truly saved will die without repenting? I am not looking for debate, but to understand what you believe.

PAX CHRISTI

Essentially....but I would prefer to say it "No one who the Lord has 'chosen in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight' will die before they repent."

 

[AnthonyE1778]

I don't believe that unrepented sin will hold a believer back from getting into Heaven. If that person is a believer I do not think that God would deny his going to heaven based on some unconfessed sin. The person may not have had the proper chance...

 

[Isaiah 53]

Essentially....but I would prefer to say it "No one who the Lord has 'chosen in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight' will die before they repent."

Thanks! This is possibly the best explaination I have ever heard. Although I do not believe in predestination, I do hope for the remainder of your statement.

PAX CHRISTI

 

[AnthonyE1778]

So if someone is a mass murderer for part of their life then they were never saved in the first place?

What if a Calvinist pastor went out and robbed a bank?

 

[SoliDeoGloria]

There is a diference between OSAS, eternal security and perseverence of the saints.

The above quoted statement is the clincher.

The doctrine of "eternal security" or the more commonly misrepresented notion of "Once saved, always saved" is just one facet of an entire doctrinal system many scholars call the "Reformed" faith.

Its contemporary advocates today would be R C Sproul, Michael Horton and perhaps John Macarthur to a much lesser degree. The late James Montgomery Boice was a champion of the traditional Reformed dogmas.

This dogma includes the whole spectrum of the "TULIP" acrostic - Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited (efficacious) Atonement, Irresistable Grace and Perseverence of the Saints.

These five have to be held in tension and in tandem in order for this theological behemoth to work, so to speak. The bone of our contention is merely the fifth dogma - the Perseverence of the Saints.

The original doctrine asserts that genuine believers (or saints) would persevere unto the end...thus the notion that they would be saved...eternally. What we have discussed and speculated over is a misrepresented caricatured doctrine that never was, that was never articulated in the first place.

 

[mlqurgw]

The above quoted statement is the clincher.

The doctrine of "eternal security" or the more commonly misrepresented notion of "Once saved, always saved" is just one facet of an entire doctrinal system many scholars call the "Reformed" faith.

Its contemporary advocates today would be R C Sproul, Michael Horton and perhaps John Macarthur to a much lesser degree. The late James Montgomery Boice was a champion of the traditional Reformed dogmas.

This dogma includes the whole spectrum of the "TULIP" acrostic - Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited (efficacious) Atonement, Irresistable Grace and Perseverence of the Saints.

These five have to be held in tension and in tandem in order for this theological behemoth to work, so to speak. The bone of our contention is merely the fifth dogma - the Perseverence of the Saints.

The original doctrine asserts that genuine believers (or saints) would persevere unto the end...thus the notion that they would be saved...eternally. What we have discussed and speculated over is a misrepresented caricatured doctrine that never was, that was never articulated in the first place.

Could you possibly clarify what you mean? I find it difficult to determine whether you are for or against. Of course that could be attributed to my lack of brain power.

 

[SoliDeoGloria]

Could you possibly clarify what you mean? I find it difficult to determine whether you are for or against. Of course that could be attributed to my lack of brain power.

I guess you are dead right in your judgment. =)

I am more inclined to the original position as subscribed in the Westminster Confession of Faith; that of the Perseverence of the Saints.

But if your query is whether or not I am FOR "eternal security" as promulgated by the majority of believers today, I would declare a bold "NO".

What is articulated nowadays is a gross misrepresentation of the doctrine and has metamorphosized into a mere license to sin.

 

[mlqurgw]

I guess you are dead right in your judgment. =)

I am more inclined to the original position as subscribed in the Westminster Confession of Faith; that of the Perseverence of the Saints.

But if your query is whether or not I am FOR "eternal security" as promulgated by the majority of believers today, I would declare a bold "NO".

What is articulated nowadays is a gross misrepresentation of the doctrine and has metamorphosized into a mere license to sin.

Thank you for making it more clear. I will only add AMEN!

 

[seekingpurity047]

And what then, if they died prior to repenting?

PAX CHRISTI

Do you know what repenting is? Change of mind. One ought to have changed their mind toward sin at the time of their coming to true saving faith in Jesus Christ. From then on, they repented. There is no way that they can go back to the "unrepentant'' IF they were TRULY saved by Christ.

To the glory of God,

Randy

 

[mlqurgw]

Do you know what repenting is? Change of mind. One ought to have changed their mind toward sin at the time of their coming to true saving faith in Jesus Christ. From then on, they repented. There is no way that they can go back to the "unrepentant'' IF they were TRULY saved by Christ.

To the glory of God,

Randy

I like the defintion of repentence as taking sides with God against yourself.

 

[Isaiah 53]

Do you know what repenting is? Change of mind. One ought to have changed their mind toward sin at the time of their coming to true saving faith in Jesus Christ. From then on, they repented. There is no way that they can go back to the "unrepentant'' IF they were TRULY saved by Christ.

To the glory of God,

Randy

Are you saying that once you believe you are incapable of sin, if you are "TRULY" saved?

PAX CHRISTI

 

[mlqurgw]

Are you saying that once you believe you are incapable of sin, if you are "TRULY" saved?

PAX CHRISTI

I do not intend to speak for another but if I may answer; Believers are a people of two natures, the flesh which wars against the spirit and the spirit which wars against the flesh. Gal. 5:17, Rom. 7:14-25. We fall and fail constantly. Everything we do is mixed with sin but we recognize this and always seek to be more than sinners. We do confess that we are sinners and have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.