The difficulty of talking to Atheist

[Rush 5]

You don't get a degree in metaphysics from a university you get it from Mercury. And I have a degree of Hierophant. On a mundane level I have a BS in Accounting from a Jesuit University where I also earned many credits in philosophy, theology history and literature. I also studied classical music at Julliard pre-college.

 

[BL2KTN]

I take it you're into astrology?

 

[Davian]

 

[Rush 5]

Yes among other things.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Care to elaborate? I don't quite understand you.

I think early martyrs believed they died for something that was true, I just think they were incorrect about it. My perspective is that they died for something that wasn't true, although they believed it to be true.

 

[Colter]

"The apostles were a bit disconcerted by the open manner of Jesus’ assent to many of the Greek’s propositions, but Jesus afterward privately said to them: “My children, marvel not that I was tolerant of the Greek’s philosophy. True and genuine inward certainty does not in the least fear outward analysis, nor does truth resent honest criticism. You should never forget that intolerance is the mask covering up the entertainment of secret doubts as to the trueness of one’s belief. No man is at any time disturbed by his neighbor’s attitude when he has perfect confidence in the truth of that which he wholeheartedly believes. Courage is the confidence of thoroughgoing honesty about those things which one professes to believe. Sincere men are unafraid of the critical examination of their true convictions and noble ideals.”UB 1955​

 

[Colter]

I think early martyrs believed they died for something that was true, I just think they were incorrect about it. My perspective is that they died for something that wasn't true, although they believed it to be true.

Maybe it's you that is incorrect?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Maybe it's you that is incorrect?

Maybe it's you that is incorrect about your judgment of the early martyrs of Islam, from Sumayyah on.

Christians have died for their beliefs, Muslims have died for their beliefs, Jews have died for their beliefs, Buddhists have died for their beliefs...

If martyrdom is evidence that a religion is true, all religions are true.

That cannot be the case, therefore martyrdom is not evidence that a religion is true.

(Corollary: At least some martyrs believed they died for something that was true, but were incorrect about it.)

 

[Colter]

Maybe it's you that is incorrect about your judgment of the early martyrs of Islam, from Sumayyah on.

Christians have died for their beliefs, Muslims have died for their beliefs, Jews have died for their beliefs, Buddhists have died for their beliefs...

If martyrdom is evidence that a religion is true, all religions are true.

That cannot be the case, therefore martyrdom is not evidence that a religion is true.

(Corollary: At least some martyrs believed they died for something that was true, but were incorrect about it.)

Martyrdom is evidence of a person committed to an ideal greater than himself, not the accuracy of his theology or the historicity of his religious belief. The early Christian martyrs for example may well have had diverging personal theologies yet were dedicated to the cause of carrying the massage of Christ as they understood it. As imperfect as their understanding may have been (truth is always relative) it still represents a vastly greater value than an Atheist sitting in a coffee bar as the chief critic of all the world.

I suppose in a way the death of the stubborn atheist is a kind of martyrdom to the cause.

 

[essentialsaltes]

it still represents a vastly greater value than an Atheist sitting in a coffee bar as the chief critic of all the world.

That's probably why I didn't use an atheist sitting in a coffee bar as my counterexample. My counterexample was Sumayyah, a female slave convert to Islam, who was tortured and martyred, when it would have been the easiest thing in the world to recant and do what her masters desired.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Martyrdom is evidence of a person committed to an ideal greater than himself, not the accuracy of his theology or the historicity of his religious belief. The early Christian martyrs for example may well have had diverging personal theologies yet were dedicated to the cause of carrying the massage of Christ as they understood it. As imperfect as their understanding may have been (truth is always relative) it still represents a vastly greater value than an Atheist sitting in a coffee bar as the chief critic of all the world.

I suppose in a way the death of the stubborn atheist is a kind of martyrdom to the cause.

You could actually say atheism has its martyrs of sorts. Think of all the people who dared to reveal evidence that contradicted religious doctrine or tradition and died seeking the truth. You could view that as a sort of atheist martyr.

 

[Colter]

You could actually say atheism has its martyrs of sorts. Think of all the people who dared to reveal evidence that contradicted religious doctrine or tradition and died seeking the truth. You could view that as a sort of atheist martyr.

Agreed. The religionist might die for the cause of eternal life, the Atheist dies for the cause of death.

In the end Lucifer tried to do the undoable, he was stricken with a suicidal theory that his pride would not allow him to recant.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Agreed. The religionist might die for the cause of eternal life, the Atheist dies for the cause of death.

In the end Lucifer tried to do the undoable, he was stricken with a suicidal theory that his pride would not allow him to recant.

To be blunt though, most people who died for the reasons I said weren't atheists.

 

[Loudmouth]

There's enough proof, if you're willing to accept it.

The same could be said of Leprechauns, Santa Claus, and Unicorns.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

It's simple.

Provide verifiable evidence that God exists, and you won't have any problem talking to atheists.

 

[TasteForTruth]

It's simple.

Provide verifiable evidence that God exists, and you won't have any problem talking to atheists.

As a programmer, I see the evidence for God's existence everywhere around me. It is absurd in the highest to ascribe the universe to anything but a Creator (Programmer). IMO

 

[Loudmouth]

As a programmer, I see the evidence for God's existence everywhere around me. It is absurd in the highest to ascribe the universe to anything but a Creator (Programmer). IMO

How so?

 

[TasteForTruth]

How so?

How so? Everything has "I was programmed to do what I do," written all over it, figuratively speaking. Even if the thing is biologically inert and does "nothing."

 

[quatona]

How so? Everything has "I was programmed to do what I do," written all over it, figuratively speaking. Even if the thing is biologically inert and does "nothing."

Well, if everything were programmed you couldn´t even tell programmed from non-programmed.

 

[Loudmouth]

How so? Everything has "I was programmed to do what I do," written all over it, figuratively speaking.

How so?