The Difference between Daniel`s 70th Week and the Tribulation.

nolidad

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So, you consider anyone who rejects the Dispensationalist heresy to be a Jew-hater.


No one who considers himself a Christian declares "that all covenants and promises God made to Israel are null and void."

NO, just those who believe god is done with Israel as a nation, that they will not have the kingdom promised to them, those who teach that the physical promises made to Israel are now spiritualized to be fulfilled in the church, and that the restoration of Israel as a nation after 1900 years of diaspora is just a coincidence, these show anti-semitic characteristics.

Well there are many christians who openly and have written that the promises made to the nation of Israel in teh OT are now null and void to Israel and given to the church.
 
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nolidad

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The scribes and Pharisees were Semites.

Was Christ antisemitic?

Matthew 23
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

If you can't tell the difference between Jesus castigating people for their character versus anti-semitism, your problems. are bigger than I can help you with.
 
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BABerean2

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If you can't tell the difference between Jesus castigating people for their character versus anti-semitism, your problems. are bigger than I can help you with.

Do you think the Apostle Paul was "anti-semitic" in the passage below?

Rom_2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
Rom_2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

.
 
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nolidad

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Agreed. And who is that prince?

There is only one individual identified as a prince in the passage.

He is Messiah, aka the Christ, aka Jesus.

It is time ,at least for me, to end this fruitless conversation. We have beaten this dead horse until there is no flesh left on the carcass.

So let me conclude by showing what you and BABerean and a few others in your allegorical and eisegetical prowess have declared to us how we should understand Daniel 9:24-27 and the New Covenant as written in Jeremiah 31 according to all you have written on this thread and the dates you have declared. Some of these pontifications I do not disagree with.

The Bible:
Daniel 9:24-27 King James Version (KJV)
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Now how we have been told to understand it!

24: 490 continuous years have been decreed for the Jews and Jerusalem to end the rebellion (transgression), complete your sins, make reconciliation for your errors, bring in everlasting righteousness, and to end the vision and prophecy, and to anoint Jesus!~

25: Know that from the command to rebuild Jerusalem by Cyrus in c.548 B.C. unto Jesus will be 49 years and 434 years. it will be rebuilt in troublous times.

26: Now after the 434 years will Jesus die for us. And Jesus (who is the prince of Rome for they are the people that will come and destroy Jerusalem and the temple in 66-70 A.D. under Titus). And unto the end of the 490 years (unless we have a quick parenthetical jump to the end of time.) wars and desolations are decreed.

27: Jesus will make a strong binding covenant (the new covenant as foretold in Jeremiah) with many Jews for 7 years (for that is approximately how long the gospel went out to the Jews alone at first) this took place when He died and established the New Covenant c. April 30 A.D. and in the middle of the 7 year covenant He made with many Jews,( c. Oct.33A.D). Jesus will cause the sacrifices and burnt offerings to end. And for spreading detestable things and idols to the extremity or wing of the temple Jesus will make the temple horrified, even till the full end and that which was decreed shall happen to the appalled or awestruck!

Now for the New covenant as it is said is the covenant Jesus makes in Daniel.

The Bible:

Jeremiah 31:31-34 King James Version (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

And how our allegorical and eisegetical scholars say we need to understand it!

Verse 31: The days are coming saysd the Lord that I will make a new covenant with the house of israel and Judah (well many of them as it says in Daniel 9)

Verse 32: Not like the old covenant that I made with the whole nation in the desert, which they broke, though I was a husband to the nation.

Verse 33: But this new covenant (which went into effect c. April 30 A.D.), I will make with many in Israel , I will put my laws only in those who accept me in the house of Israel and will be their God and those chosen will be my people that chose me!

Verse 34: They won't have to teach each other to know me, for those who choosde me will know me from th eleast to the great, for I will forgive their iniquity and remember ther sin no more (unless according to some allegorists they sin too much after they accept Jesus as Savior, then Jesus will not forgive their sins and they will lose their salvation)

This is how many allegorists with their eisegetical powers have told us we should understand these two passages. I am sure they disagree with each other on some points, but thus endeth the matter!
 
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nolidad

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Do you think the Apostle Paul was "anti-semitic" in the passage below?

Rom_2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh;
Rom_2:29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

.

Once again, if you cannot tell the difference between Paul making a difference between physical and spiritual matters, your issues are bigger than what I can help you with.

But take comfort. When the rapture happens prior to the 70th week of Daniel (oops you guys believe it already happened), He will take even you folks who have badly mangled and altered His Word to keep the false theories of Augustine alive and well!

Thus endeth the matter.
 
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nolidad

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Hello nolidad. You are borderline of being reported. [But not by me, since you didn't address me]

You are welcome to address that on this thread:

THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

Please abide by the rules of CF for this Board........

Statement of Purpose - Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose
Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose

I. Address the post and not the poster

    • Goading posts are intentionally or unintentionally baiting other members into responding with a flame.

Agreed.............

Preterists/Amills have been labeled that ever since the "spider web" doctrine of Zionist Dispensationalism Futurism reared it's ugly head thru Darbyism.......

Hopefully 1 day that doctrine will go the way of the dodo bird.......

Rapture Refuted! Pre-tribulation Rapture and Premillennialism Refuted Home page

rapture-shoes-raptured-gone-john-darby-1830ad.jpg


Have you seen this thread yet?

THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

Rapture, Premillennialism & Dispensationalism Refuted!

See: "Replacement theology" proven from the Bible!
See: The Origin of Rapture Doctrine in 1830 AD (Inventor: John Darby)
See: 50 ways Pre-millennialism contradicts the Bible

Well fo course I am on the borderline of being reported. I have come to learn that if you stand against allegorical and eisegetical interpretations of Scripture here and hold people accountable on your side of the aisle for lying about people and not defending their accusations, you will get reported. I have been five times already and uon appeal have had four of them overturned.

But when your side can call people unsaved, preaching doctrines of demons, wolves in sheep clothing,ignorant, liars, or twist words of a dispensationalist to make them say something I never said- that is okay and will not get reported.

In my 25 year research of Eschatology I have read many many works from a covanental, allegorical theological perspective. How All of Matthew 24 is ended. How REvelation is all symbolic, how there will be no physical kingdom on planet earth, how the 1000 years is symbolic of the church age, even some respected writers of covenant theology say Jesus never comes back!

Do these offer anything substantially new or different from the many other authors of allegorical hermeutic ?

But I wonder when those sensitive snowflakes who keep on reporting me will do the same with those on their side???? I won't hold my breath. And this is my last post on this thread.
 
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jgr

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It is time ,at least for me, to end this fruitless conversation. We have beaten this dead horse until there is no flesh left on the carcass.

So let me conclude by showing what you and BABerean and a few others in your allegorical and eisegetical prowess have declared to us how we should understand Daniel 9:24-27 and the New Covenant as written in Jeremiah 31 according to all you have written on this thread and the dates you have declared. Some of these pontifications I do not disagree with.

The Bible:
Daniel 9:24-27 King James Version (KJV)
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Now how we have been told to understand it!

24: 490 continuous years have been decreed for the Jews and Jerusalem to end the rebellion (transgression), complete your sins, make reconciliation for your errors, bring in everlasting righteousness, and to end the vision and prophecy, and to anoint Jesus!~

25: Know that from the command to rebuild Jerusalem by Cyrus in c.548 B.C. unto Jesus will be 49 years and 434 years. it will be rebuilt in troublous times.

26: Now after the 434 years will Jesus die for us. And Jesus (who is the prince of Rome for they are the people that will come and destroy Jerusalem and the temple in 66-70 A.D. under Titus). And unto the end of the 490 years (unless we have a quick parenthetical jump to the end of time.) wars and desolations are decreed.

27: Jesus will make a strong binding covenant (the new covenant as foretold in Jeremiah) with many Jews for 7 years (for that is approximately how long the gospel went out to the Jews alone at first) this took place when He died and established the New Covenant c. April 30 A.D. and in the middle of the 7 year covenant He made with many Jews,( c. Oct.33A.D). Jesus will cause the sacrifices and burnt offerings to end. And for spreading detestable things and idols to the extremity or wing of the temple Jesus will make the temple horrified, even till the full end and that which was decreed shall happen to the appalled or awestruck!

Now for the New covenant as it is said is the covenant Jesus makes in Daniel.

The Bible:

Jeremiah 31:31-34 King James Version (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

And how our allegorical and eisegetical scholars say we need to understand it!

Verse 31: The days are coming saysd the Lord that I will make a new covenant with the house of israel and Judah (well many of them as it says in Daniel 9)

Verse 32: Not like the old covenant that I made with the whole nation in the desert, which they broke, though I was a husband to the nation.

Verse 33: But this new covenant (which went into effect c. April 30 A.D.), I will make with many in Israel , I will put my laws only in those who accept me in the house of Israel and will be their God and those chosen will be my people that chose me!

Verse 34: They won't have to teach each other to know me, for those who choosde me will know me from th eleast to the great, for I will forgive their iniquity and remember ther sin no more (unless according to some allegorists they sin too much after they accept Jesus as Savior, then Jesus will not forgive their sins and they will lose their salvation)

This is how many allegorists with their eisegetical powers have told us we should understand these two passages. I am sure they disagree with each other on some points, but thus endeth the matter!

A creditable synopsis.

Just a minor observation.

The immeasurable sacrifice and accomplishments of Messiah the Prince at Calvary, the irrevocable New Covenant written in His Blood, and the indescribable judgment and destruction which He visited upon the nation which had rejected Him; are no allegories.

They are verifiable, indisputable, irrefutable Scriptural historical fact and reality.

Prophesied by Daniel under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit through His messenger Gabriel, and by His faithful prophet Jeremiah.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Andrewn said:
So, you consider anyone who rejects the Dispensationalist heresy to be a Jew-hater.
No one who considers himself a Christian declares "that all covenants and promises God made to Israel are null and void."
Just us Preterists and Amills ;)

Please abide by the rules of CF for this Board........
Being a Preterist non-Dispensationalist Futurist, I tend to agree with much/most of the site shown below.......

Replacement Theology, supersessionism: Christians are God's Jews. The church is true Israel.


"Replacement theology" or "supersessionism" is the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

John Hagee and others who oppose "replacement theology" are rank false teachers whom apostle Paul condemns as "fallen from grace, severed from Christ". (Gal 4:10; 5:4; Rom 7:1-7; Jer 31:31 + Heb 8:6-13)

DON'T CALL US ANTI-SEMENTIC

The vast majority of churches believe and teach "replacement theology". Churches that oppose "replacement theology" including John Hagee, are in the minority. Those who believe in Replacement Theology love the state of Israel and are among her strongest supporters!
NO, just those who believe god is done with Israel as a nation, that they will not have the kingdom promised to them, those who teach that the physical promises made to Israel are now spiritualized to be fulfilled in the church, and that the restoration of Israel as a nation after 1900 years of diaspora is just a coincidence, these show anti-semitic characteristics.
Well there are many christians who openly and have written that the promises made to the nation of Israel in teh OT are now null and void to Israel and given to the church.
A thread for your viewing pleasure:

=========================
THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE
POST #17


C. "Salvation is from the Jews": John 4:22
1. "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. " (John 4:22)

2. Salvation came from Jesus Christ who came out of the Jewish people. Jesus was a full blooded Jew.

3. There is nothing in this passage or any other place in the Bible that says the Jews will lead the way of salvation at the end of time.
===========================
I thought I would add this to the above.
Are these 10 men all Jews? Of course not! The Jewish Man is indeed Jesus Christ!


Churches view on Zech 8:23

Zechariah 8:23
Thus said Yahweh of Hosts: In those days take hold do ten men of all languages of the nations,
Yea, they have taken hold on the skirt<3671> of a Man, a Jew/Judean/Y@huwdiy<3064>, saying: 'We shall go with Thee, for we hear Elohim with Thee{ye}'!

Acts 1:6 Restore Kingdom to Israel/10 KINGS One Mind Reve 17

What kingdom is being talked about here?

Reve 17:
12 And the ten horns which you saw, ten kings are, who any a-Kingdom not-yet received,
but authority as kings, one hour they are receiving with the wild beast,

==============================

D. "Think not I came to abolish the law": Mt 5:17
1. "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. " (Matthew 5:17-20)

2. This passage is also misused by the Sabbatarians to try to keep the law of moses alive so they can have their Sabbath. Sabbath Keepers always misquote Matthew 5:17 as a proof text, that the Sabbath will endure as long as the earth stands. Simply stated, the passage says that Jesus came to fulfill the whole law (moral and ceremonial) and that none of the law would be abolished until it was fulfilled. Adventists take the incredible position that Jesus did not fulfill the law! Sabbatarians also press the expression, "not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law" as a proof text that the Sabbath is in force today! Problem is, this expression, as Jesus used it, included the whole Law of Moses including animal sacrifices. If "jot or tittle" is still in force today, the we must have both the Sabbath and animal sacrifices! Logic has never been a strong point with Seventh-day Adventists!

3. Here is a detailed examination of this passage.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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nolidad said:
I find it a little more than interesting that amillers hold to the same kind of antisemitism that unbelievers do,
nolidad said:
It is not name calling but calling a spade a spade. Many amillenialists here have no love for Israel
[/quote]LittleLambofJesus said:
Hello nolidad. You are borderline of being reported. [But not by me, since you didn't address me]
Well fo course I am on the borderline of being reported. I have come to learn that if you stand against allegorical and eisegetical interpretations of Scripture here and hold people accountable on your side of the aisle for lying about people and not defending their accusations, you will get reported. I have been five times already and uon appeal have had four of them overturned.
But I wonder when those sensitive snowflakes who keep on reporting me will do the same with those on their side???? I won't hold my breath. And this is my last post on this thread.
You have a point...........
 
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BABerean2

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Once again, if you cannot tell the difference between Paul making a difference between physical and spiritual matters, your issues are bigger than what I can help you with.

1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

.
 
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nolidad

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Hello nolidad. You are borderline of being reported. [But not by me, since you didn't address me]

You are welcome to address that on this thread:

THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

Please abide by the rules of CF for this Board........

Statement of Purpose - Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose
Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose

I. Address the post and not the poster

    • Goading posts are intentionally or unintentionally baiting other members into responding with a flame.

Agreed.............

Preterists/Amills have been labeled that ever since the "spider web" doctrine of Zionist Dispensationalism Futurism reared it's ugly head thru Darbyism.......

Hopefully 1 day that doctrine will go the way of the dodo bird.......

Rapture Refuted! Pre-tribulation Rapture and Premillennialism Refuted Home page

rapture-shoes-raptured-gone-john-darby-1830ad.jpg


Have you seen this thread yet?

THE TRUE "REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY/SUPERSESSIONISM" OF THE BIBLE

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

Rapture, Premillennialism & Dispensationalism Refuted!

See: "Replacement theology" proven from the Bible!
See: The Origin of Rapture Doctrine in 1830 AD (Inventor: John Darby)
See: 50 ways Pre-millennialism contradicts the Bible

The saddest thing about your post is how openly it lies!

Teh Jw's, Mormons and Christadelphians do not believe in the rapture!

They are also allegorists and not dispensationalists!

The Methodists for the most part do not even believe in Jesus as Messhiah anymore!

YOu should check out info you post before you post it and make yourself look so silly!
 
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jgr

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The Methodists for the most part do not even believe in Jesus as Messhiah anymore!

YOu should check out info you post before you post it and make yourself look so silly!

Speaking of silly...where did you hear that?

Wesleyan Methodism has long been a stalwart historical Reformation bulwark against dispensational modernism.
 
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