The Democratic Safe House

[Arcangl86]

It gets easier when countries spend less per person than we do (which is partly because the have neither a for-profit layer of bureaucracy siphoning off money nor a layer of administration employed to deal with the for-profit layer of bureaucracy) and spend much less per person on military adventures and toys.

THis is very important. As is the fact that people are already paying a lot for healthcare, and getting rid of that and using taxes instead could actually lower the average burden most people pay with better results.

 

[iluvatar5150]

THis is very important. As is the fact that people are already paying a lot for healthcare, and getting rid of that and using taxes instead could actually lower the average burden most people pay with better results.

People are paying a lot for their health insurance; and the government is already covering a lot of people through Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, and government employee benefits.

 

[GodLovesCats]

THis is very important. As is the fact that people are already paying a lot for healthcare, and getting rid of that and using taxes instead could actually lower the average burden most people pay with better results.

Precisely what I said was "no new taxes" to get single-payer health care. How do countries do that? If the citizens pay taxes for it, the only difference to them financially is who they are paying, not the amount of money.

 

[Arcangl86]

Precisely what I said was "no new taxes" to get single-payer health care. How do countries do that? If the citizens pay taxes for it, the only difference to them financially is who they are paying, not the amount of money.

They don't. For a new program you need to pay new taxes. But for some reason people lose their head over taxes, but not paying fees to a private entity. Also, the US has pretty low taxes in general. Most developed nations have both a higher rate for the upper tax bracket and a lower income to make it into that bracket.

 

[mark46]

The new Congress can argue over specific issues.

What is before us is how to get folks to vote, and have enough of their votes counted. We should have a goal of having as many as possible send in their mail-in ballots 2 weeks before Election Day, as many as possible participate in early voting in person, and as many as possible vote early in person (before noon) on Election Day. And, yes, if drop boxes are available, use them to drop off you mail-in ballots.
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There really is no excuse for postmarking mail in ballots on Election Day, or even a day or two before.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Simple: I have no idea how any other country has enough money for single-payer health care without tax codes that badly hurt the economy. How do they make sure all citizens have free health care forever with no new taxes and avoid creating a federal deficit?

Also keep in mind most countries do not have 330 million people. Even Canada has less despite its bigger geographic size.

I'm trying to wrap my head around someone being a Democrat and being dead set against "new taxes" so arbitrarily... And the fact that I have to explain this to another Democrat...

Taxes - new or not - pay for things that benefit us. Public services that are best served through a not-for-profit, centrally organized government source. For example, garbage collection. I know people who live in towns where garbage collection has gone from a service paid by taxes to a "pay it yourself" system. They have to buy bags, they have rules to follow, and they pay more. Some people pay another hauling company even more. They have freedom of choice but in the town's analysis it costs more per person to pay their own way than it did for the town to provide it as a service. But their Republican mayor and council decided to go this route. So now my friend who lives in that town pays more for his garbage removal than he did when it was through taxes (about 30% more) plus he has to go through hassles of dealing with their obnoxious rules.

With healthcare, look at the current system of private insurance and compare it to the other current system of Medicare and you'll have your answer.

Private Insurance:
Employees pay about 1/3 of the insurance premiums (average $6-7,000 a year) and their employers pay the other 2/3 (about $14-15,000 a year). On top of that, the costs/prices charged to private insurance companies are much, much higher because each company negotiates a price and based on their limited buying power they pay higher prices (i.e. they don't get bigger discounts). This is why prices and costs are higher in the US than anywhere else in the world (except for prices charged to Medicare patients which are lower). And for this high cost, here are the added benefits: you get to argue over claims that they don't pay, you get to pay for insurance company fatcat execs to take expensive vacations, the claims you don't get paid become bonuses for the execs and profits for the isnurance company, and you must have an employer who offers you the benefit so if you're not in the right job or your lose your job you become vulnerable. Also, every doctor, hospital, and health service out there must hire additional staff just to deal 100% with these private insurers to get their payments, and that affects our prices which go up for everyone.

Medicare:
Nobody is profiting. There are funds set up that pay for Medicare which all pay into through a payroll tax. Medicare negotiates much lower prices than private health insurance because their customer base is so large that they have massive buying power. Medicare rarely argues or denies claims (if they do it's often a billing or clerical error that is easily resolved). Very little extra staff is needed to deal with Medicare - that's why hospitals and doctors are generally happy to deal with people on Medicare. And with Medicare you have it regardless of whether you are employed or unemployed, or if you freelance, or if you run your own business, etc. Everyone just has it.

Also, factor in the fact that when you have people who are uninsured, we are all paying for that one way or another. For many poor people we pay through our taxes for them to get Medicaid - so we are already paying that through our taxes. For those who aren't on Medicaid and have no insurance at all, if they go for treatment to the ER, they will get treated, they will get billed, and if they can't pay, the charge will be written off, the health provider will have a loss and will then raise prices for everyone else (US again!) so we are paying through the higher prices that way. So, we have 2 options - we can be a society that doesn't provide any health services unless we know up front they can pay (even in ER situations) or we can be the society that helps anyone and then worries about payment later. If we continue to go with the latter, it makes sense that we do what's best in dealing with those who can't pay, and that is to include them in the health system through tax-paid healthcare.

Well, I can go on but that should be more than enough. We can cover everyone for far less than it costs right now. I'd rather pay $5,000 a year through taxes and have everyone in the nation covered for everything than pay $7,000 with my employer paying $14,000 (Not to mention my deductible of $7,000 more if I do get sick) and with all that money being spent I can still lose my coverage, I can hit limits, I can get denied for claims, I will spend lots of time fighting to get reimbursed and so will my healthcare providers, I will still pay for other people through my taxes and higher prices... It's no comparison.

An example:
My mother was on dialysis. We would get the monthly bill and it would show the non-Medicare price of $100,000 a month. It would then show the Medicare price - $30,000 a month. And then it would show that covered by Medicare and paid. That's it. Easy, covered, safe. Less cost to the taxpayers (us) for the same services.

If we have to convince Democrats that Medicare for all is the best way to go then we have massive problems and Democrats have gone far to the right.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

The new Congress can argue over specific issues.

What is before us is how to get folks to vote, and have enough of their votes counted. We should have a goal of having as many as possible send in their mail-in ballots 2 weeks before Election Day, as many as possible participate in early voting in person, and as many as possible vote early in person (before noon) on Election Day. And, yes, if drop boxes are available, use them to drop off you mail-in ballots.
==============
There really is no excuse for postmarking mail in ballots on Election Day, or even a day or two before.

Of course there's always the easy way of running on a platform that people actually want - universal health care - and then crushing it in the polls and at the booth because it's so overwhelmingly popular. But since our party has gone with the route of being mostly bought by the health insurance industry and therefore running on the platform of "we're not Trump" your method will be the one we will have to go with to make sure we can eke out every last little vote that we can to avoid a repeat of the shocking upset of Hillary.

 

[mark46]

Of course there's always the easy way of running on a platform that people actually want - universal health care - and then crushing it in the polls and at the booth because it's so overwhelmingly popular. But since our party has gone with the route of being mostly bought by the health insurance industry and therefore running on the platform of "we're not Trump" your method will be the one we will have to go with to make sure we can eke out every last little vote that we can to avoid a repeat of the shocking upset of Hillary.

"Running" on a platform of universal health care will get few additional votes, and will likely lose a lot.

Getting a Democratic president and a Democratic Congress elected on whatever platform will allow the Congress to pass additional healthcare legislation, and perhaps universal healthcare. The issue is not what we run on. The issue is who is elected.

 

[Halbhh]

Harris was very impressive in the debate. Made me think if something happened to Biden at any point, she'd be capable and solid to take over the reins.

 

[mark46]

Harris was very impressive in the debate. Made me think if something happened to Biden at any point, she'd be capable and solid to take over the reins.

Harris was fine, as was Biden.

They needed to survive and they did.

 

[FulfilledInHim]

Ok, family. So with the possibility of a Biden victory, does it bother anyone who voted for him that there are real concerns about his sexual immorality, specifically concerning children. Hence the many public videos and somebody supposed memoirs from his daughter and supposed files found on Hunter’s computer of pictures and videos of his first cousin as a teenager, ect.
Are these probably all not true? Yea possibly! That is American politics, right?

But what it any of it is true or all of it. What if we run the risk of nominating a pedophile? How can that be reconciled??

 

[Halbhh]

Ok, family. So with the possibility of a Biden victory, does it bother anyone who voted for him that there are real concerns about his sexual immorality, specifically concerning children. Hence the many public videos and somebody supposed memoirs from his daughter and supposed files found on Hunter’s computer of pictures and videos of his first cousin as a teenager, ect.
Are these probably all not true? Yea possibly! That is American politics, right?

But what it any of it is true or all of it. What if we run the risk of nominating a pedophile? How can that be reconciled??

Hello. It's good at least you know it's important not to believe politically inspired rumors to the level of judging.

But we can look to see what's right in front of us, plain and clear, over time.

So, how can you tell about someone?

Look for the fruits of the Spirit, to better know. As our Lord said:

17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Matthew 7 NIV

Notice that -- a bad tree cannot bear good fruit....

What are the fruits of the Spirit? --

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control.
Galatians 5 NIV

So, which candidate shows self control? Which has shows kindness? Which candidate shows gentleness?

At least for these it's very abundantly clear: Trump hasn't enough self control, and doesn't show kindness or gentleness often when people think it's very needed.

Biden in contrast definitely shows plenty of kindness and gentleness, and not just once in a while.

If you haven't seen a lot of Biden, you could get a hint from someone telling of their experience:

 

[Kentonio]

Ok, family. So with the possibility of a Biden victory, does it bother anyone who voted for him that there are real concerns about his sexual immorality, specifically concerning children. Hence the many public videos and somebody supposed memoirs from his daughter and supposed files found on Hunter’s computer of pictures and videos of his first cousin as a teenager, ect.
Are these probably all not true? Yea possibly! That is American politics, right?

But what it any of it is true or all of it. What if we run the risk of nominating a pedophile? How can that be reconciled??

Biden's issue is being a man from an age that we've moved on from socially. There's nothing morally weird about how he is around kids, it just comes across as odd because these days everyone is so paranoid about predators that hugging kids that aren't your own raises eyebrows.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Ok, family. So with the possibility of a Biden victory, does it bother anyone who voted for him that there are real concerns about his sexual immorality, specifically concerning children. Hence the many public videos and somebody supposed memoirs from his daughter and supposed files found on Hunter’s computer of pictures and videos of his first cousin as a teenager, ect.
Are these probably all not true? Yea possibly! That is American politics, right?

But what it any of it is true or all of it. What if we run the risk of nominating a pedophile? How can that be reconciled??

I don't believe those reports. When I first heard the accusations of different things at different times, I did have concerns, but as I would look into the story it appeared to be mostly speculation about behavior that may have seemed strange but was likely innocent albeit weird. He's kind of a weird guy. I also think he's actually a pretty decent and moral guy who does what he truly believes is right, so I don't think he has some kind of "immorality" problem.

Anyway, I didn't vote for him, I voted Green Party - Howie Hawkins. I voted Democrat for the rest of the downticket, even for Corey Booker who is a jerk.

 

[Deviant Writer]

Hello everybody. It's me again.
Everybody: Wait...who are you again?
Good one! Anyways it's been another election year. This one was a surprise. I really didn't think we were going to win this one. I did not sleep at all election night. It's been three decades since an incumbent president lost to a challenger.

Then again, we're talking about Donald Trump. If Obama's lies could power a ceiling fan, Trump's lies could power a fusion reactor. "Worse president EVAR" is a phrase that gets thrown around a lot. But Trump will go down as a president who came onto the scene as a birther, lied about being a successful businessman when he's losing millions of dollars a year, said COVID was a hoax only to catch it himself, and interrupted so much during presidential debates that the Debate Commission cut the mics for the ones to follow.

He really made me regret all the names I called Bush Junior. For all his faults, the man was not a rampaging 10 year old. Maybe it's something I need a Confederate flag and a Parler account to understand, but I just didn't get the Trump appeal. Likes to insult others, demean them for their handicaps; but is so fragile that even a mild comment like "Are you ready for tough questions" can set him off.

The election reactions are exactly what I expected. "The other side is cheating!" I hear it every election. No, I'm not looking at your article or video. No, I'm not listening to some random attorney explain all the laws "that have been broken." I consider it a conspiracy theory and my attitude on all of them is the exact same, from the "911 truthers" to the Benghazigate, to Russians helping Donald Trump win. Left or right. I don't care. When I see somebody stand trial in court with an official charge, then I'll care about what you have to say.

"But their connections and the corruption and the backroom deals!"
I still don't care. When I see somebody stand trial, then you can bother me about it. Birthers, I obviously give even less leeway than that. Stop it, DW! Don't get sidetracked!

Another takeaway I have is the exact same thing I said in 2016: don't take elections for granted and don't take swing states for granted. I had people on Facebook saying "I saw Trump go by in a parade. Nice to see the winner of the 2020 election." Then reality happened, and someone left in his comments "The loser of the 2020 election." The Trump supporter posted a smiley face but had nothing to say.

I had people on here saying Trump would take Pennsylvania and Georgia. Georgia, I get. Any of the Deep South states, I almost never believe they'll "stay blue." So I found it funny when people here were complaining about "Why do they keep flipping these states blue?" Trump supporters, they could color the states rainbow for all the difference it would make. You're going to get the Deep South and the Great Plains. Calm down.

Pennsylvania however is a swing state. When explained that most mail-in ballots (which hadn't been counted yet) favored Biden, they just dismissed it, said it wasn't going to happen. Then reality happened.

Granted, I thought those of you saying "Biden will easily take Pennsylvania" were also making a mistake and taking things for granted. That said, you provided reasoning for it. "Trump will take Pennsylvania" had absolutely no reasoning for it other than the person just deciding Trump was going to win no questions asked...then reality happened.

DON'T TAKE ELECTIONS FOR GRANTED.

I'm happy things turned out the way they did. I don't have any particular love of Biden or Harris. I was never going to like Trump, and no maybe it wasn't completely fair. But if you walk onto the political scene and one of the first things you say is "I'm a Obama birther," you and I are NOT going to be getting along. Period.

I don't get into politics like I used to, I don't fight on this forum like I used to. I just vote straight blue, hope that no more religious fundamentalists make it onto the SCOTUS, and go on about my day.

For all of you that are still here, it's good to see you again.

 

[essentialsaltes]

 

[FreeinChrist]

This is the first time I got choked up during the Inauguration.

It was class act. The speech was good. The music good and it was respectful.

 

[hedrick]

I really wish that the Democrats had nominated somebody more progressive then Biden. The Republicans are going to paint any candidate they nominate as far left anyway. So why not nominate somebody a bit further to the left then Biden, especially if it will help bring in the progressive vote. I personally don't believe in the myth of the moderate swing voter. Even those who aren't part of a party have specific political beliefs, and will pick one or the other if they choose to vote. Besides we already tried the moderate against the far right Republican and look what we got. People were excited for Obama because he campaigned as a progressive, but when he actually governed as a moderate both the turnout and his margin of victory decreased.

I'm intentionally quoting an old article. It will be interesting to see whether this concern turns out to be justified. It's starting to look like Biden is going to try to reprise FDR. He's going to avoid anti-capitalist and class-war rhetoric, but I think he is going to enact as many progressive policies as he can given American politics.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I'm intentionally quoting an old article. It will be interesting to see whether this concern turns out to be justified. It's starting to look like Biden is going to try to reprise FDR. He's going to avoid anti-capitalist and class-war rhetoric, but I think he is going to enact as many progressive policies as he can given American politics.

It's a great and arguable point, but just as Obama was not really a fiery progressive, neither is Biden. We knew this going in. I think the Democrats chose safety in Biden. Correctly. And it won. And a safe Biden presidency will be good for America.

Honestly, perhaps it's my impending Gen X senescence kicking in, but although I have been tarred by opponents as a radical Marxist atheist Commie pinko, I'm really an Obama/Biden liberal and happy to be so, and happy to get what I wanted. (almost, I was Team Kamala from day 1)

 

[FreeinChrist]

I am sure enjoying the concert on TV tonight. Jon BonJovi was really good.