• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

The Demise of Evolution

Status
Not open for further replies.

Clizby WampusCat

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2019
3,657
893
56
Texas
✟124,923.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
You think that your description better than Bible? I am not convinced you were describing a tank. And the way you write was essay style at school or college, not the manner of writing in religious manuscript.

About the Bible saying God hardened pharaoh's heart, the following is from my posting last year.

Key points:

1. Will a powerful Pharoah listened to a lone ranger Moses and let the slaves walk away? We have to get real and consider human emotions when we read scriptures too, don't just read words. The scribes won't delve into detail to explain things (even if you think they should).

2. it is a case of the Bible assert God's sovereignty, everything that happen is attributed to God, they do not distinguish whether He caused it or He allowed people to proceed with their own choice - the Bible still said God caused it or it was His will.

Many Christians wonder whether God caused Pharaoh to stop the Hebrew slaves from leaving Egypt. Puzzled by the words "I shall hardened Pharaoh's heart and he shall not let them go," we debate over this issue. Hopefully, the following will help:

Egypt was the most advanced civilization at that time, and Pharaoh was king, He was commander of a powerful army, with hundreds of thousands of soldiers, cavalry and chariots. Would such a powerful figure listen to Moses? To a person (Moses) standing with only a stuff in his hand, would the authoritarian say, “Ok prophet, I will let your people go as you ask”? Think about it and the answer is obviously no.

In fact, an Egyptian pharaoh was considered to be half-god half-human. The Egyptians worshipped other gods, not Jehovah. No doubt the king and his people heard the Hebrews' belief that the God of Jacob would lead them out of slavery one day but without seeing Jehovah's might before, the pharaoh would not believe Moses. Even among the Hebrews, many must have wondered whether God of their forefather Jacob was a just a myth - this was what it would feel like after seven or eight generations were enslaved for almost 400 years.

The Pharaoh could not afford to let the slaves go unless he had a death wish or wanted to abdicate. There were about 1/4 million Hebrew slaves; they were servants at Egyptian households, they labored at the pyramids and did work that are shunned by the Egyptians. Would the Pharaoh want to incur his people’s wrath by letting the slaves go? Would be choose to be hated, villified and ridiculed?

Consider these human factors and we will realize that Pharaoh would harden his own heart. So why then did the Bible say God harden his heart?

For all events, the Scriptures would only sum them up in a few words. The Bible doesn't explain situations in detail. It is not trying to be a novel that describe everything. While reading, we have to think about how things happened, what people did, and how they felt. The Scriptures does not delve into how things unfold gradually at ground level. Instead, whatever that happened - layers and layers of human drama and interaction - is just stated in a few words.

And the words of Scriptures assert God’s sovereignty. To say that He hardened Pharaoh is a manner of writing that asserts His sovereignty. The Scripture portrays God as active, as if He causes all things to happen, even if He only allowed them. Such was the way of writing during biblical times. The writers did not distinguish between whether God cause or allow something to happen -- unlike the way we analyzed today. We have to understand their mindset. In Judah and Ephraim, when the Israelites continued to indulge in idolatry, Isaiah lamented, "Why, Lord, do you make us wander from your ways and harden our hearts so we do not revere you? ?" [Isaiah 63:17] However, this does not mean God literally cause then to harden. It is just the way the Hebrews use words as they write Scriptures.

Today, too many of us read words only -- and try to analyze words only. We try to think up many theories to explain tough issues, such as how God hardened Pharaoh's heart. However, we will do better to know that it was simply the way the scribes wrote.

This is an example of requiring over 700 words to tell us that 4 words actually don't mean what they simply mean. Why can't god be clear in the Bible or come back and revise it? This is an example that the Bible is not accessible to everyone but only people that have time and resources to study it properly.

What other book do you analyze this way?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jimmy D
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Of course there are more than just a "few" ape skulls. There are literally millions of fossils.

Just the Smithsonian alone has over 40 million fossil specimens: Collections Overview | Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History

I think most creationists don't realize just how many fossils have been found.
Many constantly make the error of thinking that there was only one. That may be because they follow the likes of Kent Hovind. Many examples he will call fake and think that he has refuted a species, such as Archaeopteryx without realizing that other examples besides the original were found.
 
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
This is an example of requiring over 700 words to tell us that 4 words actually don't mean what they simply mean. Why can't god be clear in the Bible or come back and revise it? This is an example that the Bible is not accessible to everyone but only people that have time and resources to study it properly.
Correct. Not fully accessible, at any rate.

What other book do you analyze this way?
Any book which is regarded by its adherents as "holy scripture." Any decent holy book provides mysteries and ambiguities to provoke reflection and meditation. In the present example, Roman's interpretation is only one of many, and no one of them can be considered the "right" interpretation--there isn't one. To regard the story as being nothing but straightforward historical narrative is to miss the point of it.
 
Upvote 0

Need answers

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2020
2,421
721
Ohio
✟19,636.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
What do you mean? What type of fossils do you think would support the theory?
If everything is evolving, i would expect to see that in the fossil record, but all we have are a few ape skulls.
 
Upvote 0

Need answers

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2020
2,421
721
Ohio
✟19,636.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Of course there are more than just a "few" ape skulls. There are literally millions of fossils.

Just the Smithsonian alone has over 40 million fossil specimens: Collections Overview | Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History

I think most creationists don't realize just how many fossils have been found.

edited to add:

Further, this is what the Smithsonian lists for hominid fossils: Human Fossils

From skeletons to teeth, early human fossils have been found of more than 6,000 individuals. With the rapid pace of new discoveries every year, this impressive sample means that even though some early human species are only represented by one or a few fossils, others are represented by thousands of fossils.
They have over a hundred specific examples of hominid fossils on that site. More than just a "few".
Lets see some of these fossils and how they have evolved.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
If everything is evolving, i would expect to see that in the fossil record, but all we have are a few ape skulls.
No, we have far more than that. And why only focus on human evolution? It can be shown that all life evolves so you need to look at the entire fossil record. That is millions upon millions of fossils. All of which support the theory of evolution.

Meanwhile no reliable evidence at all for your beliefs. For you to reject evolution is more than a bit irrational.
 
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Lets see some of these fossils and how they have evolved.
Fossils don't evolve. Fossils are the lithified remains of once-living creatures.
 
Upvote 0

HitchSlap

PROUDLY PRIMATE
Aug 6, 2012
14,723
5,468
✟288,596.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Its you job to prove your assertions.
We have, you're just not aware of it. You shouldn't assume to know more than those who actually do research in this area.

(see Dunning-Kruger effect. You are a prime example)
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Jimmy D
Upvote 0

Need answers

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2020
2,421
721
Ohio
✟19,636.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
No, we have far more than that. And why only focus on human evolution? It can be shown that all life evolves so you need to look at the entire fossil record. That is millions upon millions of fossils. All of which support the theory of evolution.

Meanwhile no reliable evidence at all for your beliefs. For you to reject evolution is more than a bit irrational.
They may have a bunch of fossils but that doesn't prove evolution.
 
Upvote 0

Need answers

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2020
2,421
721
Ohio
✟19,636.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
We have, you're just not aware of it. You shouldn't assume to know more than those who actually do research in this area.

(see Dunning-Kruger effect. You are a prime example)
Yet you prove nothing.
 
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Im waiting to see these fossils
You don't have to wait. If you live anywhere near a major university go and look over their fossil collections whenever you want. They will have quite literally many tons of them.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: pitabread
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.