The Demise of Evolution

[roman2819]

Non-sequitur. My post was correcting your logical error; either you're responding to the wrong post, or you completely misunderstood what I said.

My post said nothing about my own beliefs, disbeliefs, or whether I think Jesus existed. If you'd like to know about my beliefs, disbeliefs, or whether I think Jesus existed, you need only ask.

I am more concerned with substance of argument not style of argument. If the premise is wrong, it does not mater how cleverly you try to say that black is white.

 

[roman2819]

Science does not deal in the “who”, but in the “how”. That is, the mechanisms and and the explanations of what happened that caused the universe to be as we see it today. Science, by its nature cannot and should not study the existence or influence of G-d.

From a different point of view:
“For Judaism, the search for religious certainty through science or metaphysics is not merely fallacious but ultimately pagan. To suppose that G-d is scientifically provable is to identify G-d with what is observable, and this for Judaism is idolatry.” ~ Lord Jonathan Sacks

Did I say science should study about god? No I didn't. I am aware taht science is neutral about God. But some people twist it to say God did not exist because science doesn't prove His existence.

 

[roman2819]

What I am saying is that identifying a natural cause for a phenomenon does not rule out or deny God's creative involvement.
1. Life as we know it evolved over a long period of time by natural causes from a common ancestor --which may also have arisen by natural causes.
2. God is the author of all of it. I don't mean that He just flipped the switch on the natural processes and walked away but was and is continuously involved.

It is difficult to understand the complicated stuff you are saying If I remember right, you seem to believe that God is some form of science, not a personal God is it?

 

[Shemjaza]

Did I say science should study about god? No I didn't. I am aware taht science is neutral about God. But some people twist it to say God did not exist because science doesn't prove His existence.

I'm not aware of anyone here saying that no scientific evidence means God doesn't exist. A number of atheists do think that since there is no scientific evidence, there's no reason to believe he does.

 

[roman2819]

Obviously you didn't understand Kylie's post. It was about Josephus as a credible historical source, not about the existence of Jesus per se.

Even Kylie would disagree with you

 

[roman2819]

I'm not aware of anyone here saying that no scientific evidence means God doesn't exist. A number of atheists do think that since there is no scientific evidence, there's no reason to believe he does.

There are over a thousand posts here and I believe you havent read most of them.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I am more concerned with substance of argument not style of argument. If the premise is wrong, it does not mater how cleverly you try to say that black is white.

If your logic is incorrect, it does not matter what your evaluation is.

 

[Speedwell]

It is difficult to understand the complicated stuff you are saying If I remember right, you seem to believe that God is some form of science, not a personal God is it?

I am an Anglican and my beliefs are adequately, if succinctly, set out in the Nicene Creed.

Even Kylie would disagree with you

Let's hear what Kylie has to say about it. Certainly the part of her post you quoted in #1854 says nothing of the kind.

 

[Speedwell]

I'm not aware of anyone here saying that no scientific evidence means God doesn't exist. A number of atheists do think that since there is no scientific evidence, there's no reason to believe he does.

It's creationists who are projecting that belief. It's a problem with logic that they have called denying the antecedent. The same error crops up in their theology: "If Genesis is not a literal and inerrant account of the creation and fall of man then Jesus wasn't God and died for nothing."

 

[pitabread]

However there are people who twist it by saying that science haven't prove the existence of God, so God does not exist.

Are you one of these people? Whatever you believe is fine for me, I am just saying how people twist science to suit themselves.

As I said, science cannot deal with the existence of the supernatural. It's silent on the subject.

I'm not sure why anyone would claim that science demonstrates that God doesn't exist. Anyone making such claims doesn't understand science.

 

[pitabread]

So you believe life began hundred of millions of years ago, instead of billions. However, others state that certain fossils dated back to BILLIONS of years ago.

See the contradiction?

The Earth is approximately 4.6 billion years old. The earliest evidence we have for life on Earth is ~4 billion years ago.

In other words, it took about 600 million years for life to appear on Earth (based on evidence of the earliest known life) from the time of the formation of the Earth. Life has existed on Earth for approximately 4 billion years since.

Does that clarify things?

 

[Shemjaza]

There are over a thousand posts here and I believe you havent read most of them.

Obviously I'm not 100% sure, that's why I said I wasn't aware...

I strongly suspect that I'm correct... but if in wrong, please point out an example, because it's a very uncommon attitude for an atheist on this board.

Creationists misunderstanding and misrepresenting atheists and evolution accepting Christians in sadly quite common.

 

[Kylie]

To answer your question on who made the claim that Jesus was a fictional account by unreliable Josephus' account, here is the post #1725 by @Kylie



You can follow the discussion for 30 threads after ... until i gave my two-cents in #1813

I don't mind people disagreeing ..... but hopefully they don't become worse than absurd.

Of course, I never said that Josephus made it up either, did I?

Josephus could have simply repeated incorrect information that he was told. You are committing the false dichotomy fallacy. There are more options than the "Josephus made it all up himself" and the "Josephus was 100% correct about everything" options you are presenting.

 

[Kylie]

Even Kylie would disagree with you

If a person repeats whatever stories they are told, it does not prove that those stories are true. Josephus may have written about Jesus, but that doesn't mean that those stories are factual. If Josephus is presenting stories as true simply because he has heard them, then he is not a reliable source. To be reliable, a source needs to be verifiable.

 

[cutterfl]

As long as satan is free, evolution will be believed along with other scientific lies.

As long as satan is free, evolution will be believed along with other scientific lies.

this is just stupid. John said the word created the universe by speaking it into existence. and no it clearly states 3 heavens...atmosphere, space and that beyond. I might remind you that greek system of planetary and solar things worked with earth as center epicenters forever till 1600s.

 

[cutterfl]

What about the 2nd part of my post? Where did the ideas of medicine, warfare, agriculture and boat building come from? God very strongly promotes all of those supposedly satanic ideas.

 

[cutterfl]

this is just stupid. John said the word created the universe by speaking it into existence. and no it clearly states 3 heavens...atmosphere, space and that beyond. I might remind you that greek system of planetary and solar things worked with earth as center epicenters forever till 1600s.

first, modern medicine is a joke. Most modern diseases are diet based. When's the last time you doctor asked what you're eating, and how to correct that. Diabetes, heart disease, all diet. Even gout, which I sometimes have, easily cured by taking a lot of vitamin C as soon as symptoms start...no we got petrochemical derived pills for that, which cause other problems. Even Covid...take vitamin D...nope stay out of sun....

 

[Shemjaza]

first, modern medicine is a joke. Most modern diseases are diet based. When's the last time you doctor asked what you're eating, and how to correct that. Diabetes, heart disease, all diet. Even gout, which I sometimes have, easily cured by taking a lot of vitamin C as soon as symptoms start...no we got petrochemical derived pills for that, which cause other problems. Even Covid...take vitamin D...nope stay out of sun....

Yeah, that's just false.

 

[roman2819]

Of course, I never said that Josephus made it up either, did I?

Josephus could have simply repeated incorrect information that he was told. You are committing the false dichotomy fallacy. There are more options than the "Josephus made it all up himself" and the "Josephus was 100% correct about everything" options you are presenting.

So are you now saying that Jesus exists?

Your earlier post #1727 say otherwise:

By the same logic, I can claim that Harry Potter is real because it describes real world locations. Okay, maybe Harry Potter isn't an actual wizard at Hogwarts, but there must be some real world person on whom the stories are based, right?

In above you were replying to KomatiiteBIF who believes that historical evidences supported the existence of Jesus as a historical figure.

 

[roman2819]

If a person repeats whatever stories they are told, it does not prove that those stories are true. Josephus may have written about Jesus, but that doesn't mean that those stories are factual. If Josephus is presenting stories as true simply because he has heard them, then he is not a reliable source. To be reliable, a source needs to be verifiable.

And what makes you think that Josephus didn't verify what he heard about Jesus?

Wouldn't a reputable historian want to verify first to present accurate information to people, wouldn't he want future generations to remember him as a credible historian? The same applies to well-known historians life SimaYi (China Han dynasty) and others, these people have passion and conviction for their work.

Your superficial claim about Josephus is incredulously naive, to say the least. Or maybe you were too eager to discredit the existence f Jesus as a historical figure that you will say anything, However, superficial claims can be easily disputed.