The Deception of Evolution and the Fossil Sequence

BrotherKev · May 18, 2015

ViaCrucis said:
Exactly, which is why God owns only 1,000 hills worth of cattle, and not a hill more, Psalm 50:10.

-CryptoLutheran

Hmm, must be stuck in Law and traditions of men. Break free and run to the grace God provided in this dispensation. You can do it, just believe that Christ died for your sins according to scripture, was buried, and rose again the third day according to scripture. His grace is waiting for you!

We're not under Law anymore. It was there for the Jews to understand that they couldn't keep them and that they needed a Savior. The Law showed them their sins.

There is a hermeneutic called dispensationalism. Check it out with an open heart to God's Word and you'll gain an understanding of scripture that will pour light into your life.

Grace and Peace to you!

Respectfully,
Kev

nonbeliever314 · May 18, 2015

Yes there are some good "lessons" in the bible, but there are also totally nasty ones. Sure, I used pick and choose move here, but you do the same as well.

Oncedeceived · May 18, 2015

nonbeliever314 said:
“He who blasphemes the name of Yahweh, he shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him: the foreigner as well as the native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.”

Yes, and you know that this was a Torah law which we are not under as Christians.

lifepsyop · May 18, 2015

Atheos canadensis said:
Uh, you just did exactly the same thing again. I challenged you to provide more than your imagination about what scientists might say if the fossil record were different. I'm not sure why you think you're making a compelling argument when you just post that some imaginary scientists would say X in your imaginary scenario.

And if we're not bothering to provide any actual evidence for our claims here, I would suggest that paleontologists would have a lot harder time coming up with a relatively coherent narrative if the base of the rock record showed the diversity of body forms we see now gradually merging into the same forms until we get to the first chordates or something like that. That situation would be quite hard to reconcile with our understanding of evolution.

Your demands for "evidence" don't even make sense. I'm describing the actual logic and principles of the theory. Try addressing the points raised instead of making nonsensical or undefined demands.

You also ignored the known fact that fossils can be OUT OF SEQUENCE and still reconciled to evolution theory. You don't like that do you?

You described a particular fossil order that would be hard to explain. Yep I agree, there are some like that. That doesn't change the fact that there are countless fossil orders where major animal groups could becompletely shuffled around and Evolution theory could still have accommodated it

The inescapable logical conclusion is that the present fossil record is not an Evolutionary one in any remotely specific sense. It is obvious.

Loudmouth · May 18, 2015

lifepsyop said:
You also ignored the known fact that fossils can be OUT OF SEQUENCE and still reconciled to evolution theory.

How did you determine that they were out of sequence?

You described a particular fossil order that would be hard to explain. Yep I agree, there are some like that. That doesn't change the fact that there are countless fossil orders where major animal groups could becompletely shuffled around and Evolution theory could still have accommodated it

Now you are inventing fantasies.

The inescapable logical conclusion is that the present fossil record is not an Evolutionary one in any remotely specific sense. It is obvious.

Then show me the numerous and obvious violations of the nested hierarchy.

nonbeliever314 · May 18, 2015

Oncedeceived said:
Yes, and you know that this was a Torah law which we are not under as Christians.

Why is it in the bible then?

Loudmouth · May 18, 2015

Oncedeceived said:
Yes, and you know that this was a Torah law which we are not under as Christians.

Perhaps you could tell that to the christians who make fools of themselves over displays of the Ten Commandments.

Loudmouth · May 18, 2015

The accepted version of history has humans starting out with simpler stone tools, working up to bronze tools, and then on to iron tools. If we find a modern human society that is still using stone age technology, does that disprove the accepted history?

lifepsyop · May 18, 2015

BrotherKev said:
Kent teaches from the bible as God's truth, infallible, perfectly preserved. It's all about whether you understand that God is capable of getting the true word to us today.

Since God's words are as truly inspired, then why doubt their accuracy? If God says that creation took 6 days, then it took 6 days. Romans 3:4 "God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.".

Because friendship with the world is more important to them. I think many professing Christians are more afraid of being publicly ridiculed than they are of God Himself.

Loudmouth · May 18, 2015

lifepsyop said:
Because friendship with the world is more important to them. I think many professing Christians are more afraid of being publicly ridiculed than they are of God Himself.

I would hope that they would be concerned with the truth. Following Kent Hovind is one of the surest ways to be led far astray of the truth.

lifepsyop · May 18, 2015

Loudmouth said:
How did you determine that they were out of sequence?

I didn't determine it. It is admitted by evolutionists themselves. When fossils appear to be out of sequence, (such as the fish-tetrapod "transition" and dino-bird "transition") then evolutionists simply rescue the discrepancy by saying some organisms exhibiting the more primitive traits did not happen to fossilize until *after* the organisms exhibiting more advanced traits.

Conclusion: Fossils being out of sequence is not a barrier to an evolutionary narrative of a supposed "transition" and demonstrates how flexible and jello-like the theory is to accommodate inconsistent data.

Simple as that. You don't have to like it but you can't avoid it.

Loudmouth · May 18, 2015

lifepsyop said:
I didn't determine it. It is admitted by evolutionists themselves. When fossils appear to be out of sequence, (such as the fish-tetrapod "transition" and dino-bird "transition") then evolutionists simply rescue the discrepancy by saying some organisms exhibiting the more primitive traits did not happen to fossilize until *after* the organisms exhibiting more advanced traits.

Why isn't that a possibility? Are you saying that what is described can't happen?

Conclusion: Fossils being out of sequence is not a barrier to an evolutionary narrative of a supposed "transition" and demonstrates how flexible and jello-like the theory is to accommodate inconsistent data.

You are only pointing to short periods of time, not long periods of time such as a Rabbit in the Cambrian. Therefore, evolution is still falsifiable.

Do you think finding a tribe using stone age technology refutes everything we know about human history?

lifepsyop · May 18, 2015

Loudmouth said:
Why isn't that a possibility? Are you saying that what is described can't happen?

You are only pointing to short periods of time, not long periods of time such as a Rabbit in the Cambrian. Therefore, evolution is still falsifiable.

20 million years is a short period of time? (such as in the case of tetrapod fossil discrepancies) Nope, sorry. That is a lot of flexibility for rescuing out of order fossils. Evolution is a jello-theory that would have wrapped a narrative around countless different possible fossil orders.

And I didn't say evolution theory isn't falsifiable. Practically anything is "falsifiable" in some way or another. It's amusing you think that vague quality is so impressive, but then again you've never stopped to question it. Critical thinking is obviously not your strong point when you have an evolutionary creation religion to protect.

Loudmouth · May 18, 2015

lifepsyop said:
20 million years is a short period of time?

Geologically speaking and for that time period, yes.

Nope, sorry. That is a lot of flexibility for rescuing out of order fossils.

Then why did it take so long to find Tiktaalik to begin with? Geologists have been searching fossil beds of 200 years now, and that fossil species was only found a few years ago. Why did it take so long? Why do we only know of a handful of specimens after 200 years of searching?

Evolution is a jello-theory that would have wrapped a narrative around countless different possible fossil orders.

You overestimate the sampling of the fossil record.

Oncedeceived · May 18, 2015

Loudmouth said:
Perhaps you could tell that to the christians who make fools of themselves over displays of the Ten Commandments.

The Ten Commandments are important as they show we are not able to save ourselves.

Oncedeceived · May 18, 2015

nonbeliever314 said:
Why is it in the bible then?

Everything is tied to something else. It is all important to the whole.

Loudmouth · May 18, 2015

Oncedeceived said:
The Ten Commandments are important as they show we are not able to save ourselves.

Huh?

Oncedeceived · May 18, 2015

Loudmouth said:
Huh?

The fact that you don't understand speaks volumes.

Loudmouth · May 18, 2015

Oncedeceived said:
The fact that you don't understand speaks volumes.

The fact that you can't explain speaks more.

Thou shalt observe the Sabbath and keep it Holy. Therefore, you can not save yourself.

One does not follow from the other.

ViaCrucis · May 18, 2015

BrotherKev said:
Hmm, must be stuck in Law and traditions of men.

Psalm 50:10 isn't the Law, and it's not a "tradition of man". It's what Scripture says concerning God's ownership of creation. You know what is Law? Genesis ch. 1, Genesis is the first book in those five books known as Torah.

Break free and run to the grace God provided in this dispensation.

Break free of what? And I'm not a Dispensationalist, so yeah.

You can do it,

Nope. I can't. According to St. Paul in Ephesians ch. 2 salvation is the gracious work of God, faith is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8) so no, I cannot reach God in my own power and strength, my salvation comes solely by the grace of God in Jesus Christ through the faith granted me as God's gracious gift through the Means He has provided, the preaching of the Gospel and the Sacraments. Being that I am baptized I have those promises of God which He has attached to Baptism, namely the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38), union with Christ in His death and resurrection (Romans ch. 6 and Galatians 3:27).

just believe that Christ died for your sins according to scripture, was buried, and rose again the third day according to scripture. His grace is waiting for you

I realize that you can't tell I'm a Christian because faith icons don't exist anymore. But certainly you couldn't have missed my signature or my avatar. So, take a chill pill, I'm a Christian.

We're not under Law anymore. It was there for the Jews to understand that they couldn't keep them and that they needed a Savior. The Law showed them their sins.

The Law (which is much more than just the Torah, which, yes, was given to the Jewish people exclusively as part of the covenant God made with them at Sinai) condemns all of us in our sins. That is why we depend on grace, as our works cannot justify us.

There is a hermeneutic called dispensationalism. Check it out with an open heart to God's Word and you'll gain an understanding of scripture that will pour light into your life.

Grace and Peace to you!

Respectfully,
Kev

Somewhat interesting when I actually meet a Dispensationalist who knows what Dispensationalism is, it took me nearly 20 in Dispensationalism before I found out what it was, only because it never occurred to me that much of those things I had been taught to believe were 19th century fiction which Christianity has never taught.

So you'll understand that I really have no interest in your offer for me to reject the Gospel of my Lord Jesus Christ by embracing a heterodox theology invented less than two hundred years ago. I'll stick to the faith "once and for all delivered to the saints" as St. Jude writes in his epistle, if that's okay with you I mean.

-CryptoLutheran

The Deception of Evolution and the Fossil Sequence

Newbie

....grinding teeth.

Senior Veteran

Regular Member

Contributor

....grinding teeth.

Contributor

Contributor

Regular Member

Contributor

Regular Member

Contributor

Regular Member

Contributor

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Contributor

Senior Veteran

Contributor

Confessional Lutheran

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency