The Days of Noah and Lot

"Actually, I think you are probably the first person I've ever encountered who says there won't be any repentance in the tribulation"


Some think so

However, there will be some who will repent and turn during the tribulation .... but not many

If you enter the tribulation as you seem to think ..... make certain that you do [Revelation 3:15-20]

Ask P3704 what he thinks on this issue rather than making an assumption

Endtime Survivors said:

Actually, I think you are probably the first person I've ever encountered who says there won't be any repentance in the tribulation. It's such a contrary position that I think surely I must be misunderstanding your position, and yet when I read it again, it really does look like you're saying there won't be repentance in the tribulation.

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That's not what I said. I did not say there won't be any repentance in the tribulation. Did you just quickly skim through the post and not read everything? I'm asking because I said the opposite. Read what I said below.





How can you missed all the above I wrote in one post about the need to repent?

Again! You're suppose to repent soon as you accept Christ as your savior. You're not suppose to wait until you enter into the tribulation (Daniel's 70th) and then start repenting. If you do that, you most definitely will enter into the tribulation.

Thinking you're suppose to wait until you enter into the tribulation to repent is the wrong mentality!

What if you die tomorrow and don't get the chance to enter into the tribulation to repent? Than you'll just end up in hell.

What about Christians in the past that have already passed away who will never enter into the tribulation? Is their salvation dependant upon entering into the tribulation to repent? NO! You're suppose to repent now, not wait until the tribulation.

Endtime Survivors said:

Assuming the pre-trib theory is accurate, then yeah people will know when it happens. But the lesson behind the warning about the Days of Noah and Lot is the opposite; that people will be blissfully UNaware of Jesus' return, or the troubles coming on the Earth. There were "suddenly" destroyed, not because the destruction itself is sudden or that there is no warning, but because they stopped listening to or caring about the warnings.

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This part you wrote is correct. When the rapture happens, the whole world will eventually know they've entered into the tribulation (Daniel's 70th week) and know the bible and it's prophecies about millions of Christians suddenly vanished are true........except many radical muslims in the Middle East who refuse to turn from Islam and will later follow the beast.


This part is partially correct and partially wrong but 100% uneducated about the Days of Noah and the Days of Lot. They're two different topics, about different groups of people happening at different timeline.

Endtime Survivors said:

This is not consistent with my understanding of tribulation, trials, persecution etc. Take a moment to think about what you're really arguing here. If "you don't start repenting once you're in the tribulation", as you suggest, then who are all these people who come out of the great tribulation, having white robes? If they were right with God before the trib, then they would have been taken up in the pre-trib rapture. How did they get the white robes? It makes no sense.

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Well it makes no sense to you because you didn't correctly read what I wrote in my last post about the need to repent now and not later.

I said you're suppose to repent. You're suppose to repent before the tribulation. You're suppose to repent if you find yourself in the tribulation. You're suppose to repent even during the 2nd half of the tribulation. It's never too late to repent, not even when you're in hell. God wants everyone to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, 1 Timothy 2:4. Unfortunately many will find the truth but in hell when they see the supernatural.

The only time and place where repentance will not save you is in the Lake of Fire. Do you understand what I just told you?










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Endtime Survivors said:

I really have no idea where you're getting all this. My point was that Tribulation is intrinsically different from wrath. They are meant to achieve two very different goals. Tribulations, trials, and persecutions are all facts of life which are meant to encourage faithfulness, courage, loyalty, respect and repentance. Wrath is specifically aimed at the enemies of God and its point is destruction, in which case it makes no sense for them to happen at the same time.

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I get all this from carefully reading the bible. Are you trying to tell us the tribulation (Daniel's 70th week) does not contain any wrath within the 7 year period?

Or are you unable to distinguish the differences between Daniel's 70th week and John 16:33?

Does this have anything to do with thew word tribulation in John 16:33? If so, you might be surprise to find out half the english translations don't use the word tribulation.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/john/16-33-compare.html

Endtime Survivors said:

You followed this up with comments about how people are meant to repent during the tribulation etc, but I think I see where the confusion came in. I really don't understand how you could interpret my comments as saying that we don't need to, (or should not) repent, unless we are in the Great Tribulation, since I didn't say anything close to that.

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It's right here, you posted this two days ago. Read below, this was what you wrote.

Endtime Survivors said:

Nah, he said,
LK 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

LK 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

LK 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

LK 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

LK 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

I'm not sure why it should be important to you to make a distinction between the days of Noah and the Days of Lot, but apart from the word "likewise" indicating sameness, the events he describes for both times are the same; all normal, ordinary, everyday activities. A people, in both cases, too busy with the cares of this world to care about what God wants.

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You're just assuming both events are the same simply because both scriptures describes people eating, drinking and giving into marriage. Clearly wrong and demonstrating no knowledge in the distinction of the two events.

I highly suggest you go back and read Matthew 24:36-44 and look at the emphasis in Jesus' message. He's constantly telling you throughout those verses "YOU DO NOT KNOW WHEN HE'S COMING!"

Here's a hint, an illustration.

Let's say you lived 100 years ago before Israel became a nation in 1948 with absolutely no sign of Christ's return anywhere. How will you be living your life? Will you not go about your normal daily routine? Will you not be see people eating, drinking or marrying one another? Has people not been eating, drinking and marrying the last 2000 years?

Why would people in the last 2000 years prior to 1948 need to live their life differently? Nothing special in the foreseeable future. So why stop doing our daily normal routines of life: eating, drinking, marrying?

Fast forward to Sept 20, 2016. Now, if you are expecting Christ to return soon, how will you or other Christians waiting with expectancy be living their life today?

Do you understand now what He's telling you when He said those people were eating, drinking and giving into marriage or do you need more help?

Here's a HUGE hint. They did not know what was about to happen. That's why they were going about their normal daily routines of life: eating, drinking and marrying.

Endtime Survivors said:

And isn't that the real sin? Whether it's fornication, atheism, business, marriage, or even eating and drinking; if it's not done to the glory of God or of faith, it becomes sinful. Except, those last few items are even MORE spiritually dangerous because they are not obvious. People can easily fool themselves into thinking they are fine with their various plans until one day they die and find out they had it all wrong. That was the lesson in the parable of the man who build bigger barns. God called him a fool. Why? All he did is what most normal people do all over the world; work for their various goods and try to build their businesses, careers and various pursuits into something bigger/more valuable.

I believe the purpose of mentioning both examples in the same context is to deliberately undermine the more common interpretations as to why the people of those two examples were destroyed. Sexual sin and atheism; yeah those are sins. No doubt about that. But then so is anything which comes before God. Jesus wanted people to stop being self righteous about the sins of Noah and Lots day and to get serious about our own sins, as well hidden as they may be behind the facade of respectability that we call "culture" and "society" and "earning a living".

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No EtS, you're very very much wrong with your conclusions. You have to understand why God brought about a flood during the time of Noah. God was trying to save humanity from potential annihilation. Read the book of Enoch. Satan was creating genetic mutations with plans to wipe out mankind. That was the real evil God needed to destroy. God had Noah preached about the coming of a great flood for 100 to 120 years trying to save as many people as possible. God brought about the flood to destroy satan's work.

God did the same thing during Sodom and Gomorrah. The people there engaged in bestiality. It's not mentioned in the bible but put the puzzle together and you can figure out God was trying to save humanity from potential deadly diseases transmitted from animals that can wipe out the human race.

Did you know you can catch bubonic plague just by sleeping with your pet? Many deadly and fatal diseases are curable today but back during the days of Lot, who knows if they even had cure for the common cold?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1350168/Dont-sleep-pet-catch-possibly-bubonic-plague.html

Now do you understand why God will need to bring about His wrath during Daniel's 70th week? Satan comes to the earth at the middle of the tribulation and begins his menace upon the world as the antichrist. It's not a coincidence God begins His wrath at this time and begin destroying the a/c's armies.

Once again, mankind is on the break of annihilation from satan. In Revelation 16:13-16, satan sends out demonic spirits to gather the kings of the earth for war. And once again, God comes to the rescue. This time He sends Jesus to destroy the a/c and end the war before everyone nuke each other's brains out. If He does not send Jesus, there be no flesh saved.


Do you understand why God does the things He does? God always has a purpose for everything He does and it's always for good and the benefit of mankind. Whenever God needs to do something drastic, it's because something drastic is happening.

Now go back and look at the video you made. You're telling people in that video that Jesus said God killed people for eating, drinking, marrying and conducting business. God does not kill people for those reasons. That video gave a completely wrong and false interpretation of what Jesus was telling us in the Olivet Discourse. He's not telling us it's a sin or wrong that people were eating, drinking and marrying. He's saying the people during the days of Noah and the days of Lot were completely oblivious of what was about to happen.

Had they knew what was about to happen in the days of Noah, they would of entered into the ark with Noah.

Had they knew what was about to happen in the days of Lot, they would of fled for their lives also.

Nobody knew except Noah's and Lot's family. Everyone continued their normal daily routine expecting nothing. That's the message!









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Endtime Survivors said:

The question is, why was the destruction "sudden"? Is that your experience of God; that he destroys people with no warning or chance for repentance?

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I told you before, the rapture is compared to the days of Noah. Destruction will suddenly come upon the world during the rapture as thousands to millions of cars, planes, boats, trains etc without drivers collide.


In 1 Thessalonians 5:2, Christ comes for the church, the rapture.

In 1 Thessalonians 5:3a, that's the worldwide destruction immediately following the rapture. It'll look like the video.


In 1 Thessalonians 5:3b, it said "And they shall not escape." Well, what was Paul talking about, what will they not escape?


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I already told you the days of Lot is the destruction during the Abomination of Desolation.

The rapture (days of Noah) starts the time of the tribulation for the gentiles and the world.


The Abomination of Desolation (days of Lot) starts the time of Jacob's Trouble (2nd half of Daniel's 70th week) for the Jewish people in Israel.


Two difference events happening at two different times describing two groups of people. What does both events have in common? They were all oblivious of what was about to come upon them so they continued their normal daily lives doing their normal daily routines: eating, drinking, marrying and doing business.










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Psalm3704 said: ↑

Psalm3704 said:

You're not suppose to wait until you enter into the tribulation (Daniel's 70th) and then start repenting.

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If you had the reformers (protestant, protesters) view of Daniels 70 week prophecy instead of the Catholic view from the counter reformation you would not be deceived in the rest of you theology concerning prophecy.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 King James Version (KJV)
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

After the sixty-two weeks or "in the midst of" the 70th week Messiah was cut off and officially "caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease" (Daniel 9:26-27). This was none other than the crucifixion of Jesus when he 'confirmed' or ratified the new Covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31:31-33; Hebrews 8:8-13; Matthew 26:27-28; Romans 15:8. This took place in 31 A.D. The stoning of Stephen three and a half years later ended the period of the 70th week.

History Lesson
As part of the Historicist interpretation of prophecy, the point of view expressed on this chart was believed and taught by many of the Protestant Reformers and Bible scholars dating back many centuries. Many stalwarts of the Christian faith such as John Wycliffe, John Knox, William Tyndale, John Calvin, Martin Luther, John Huss, Charles Spurgeon, John and Charles Wesley and Jonathan Edwards were strong proponents of the Historicist view and many suffered in defense of their belief. This interpretation stands in sharp contrast to the modern fallacious teaching of Futurism.

The Catholic Counter Reformation - Futurism
The Jesuits were commissioned by the Pope to develop a new interpretation of Scripture that would counteract the Protestant application of the Bible’s prophecies regarding the Antichrist to the Roman Catholic Church. All the reformers’ studies pointed the finger directly at the Roman Catholic Church as the Antichrist power described in Daniel as the “little horn.”

Source: Like Martin Luther, Francisco Ribera also read by candlelight the prophecies about the Antichrist, the little horn, the man of sin, and the beast of Revelation.
He then developed the doctrine of futurism. His explanation was that the prophecies apply only to a single sinister man who will arise up at the end of time. Rome quickly adopted this viewpoint as the Church’s official position on the Antichrist.

So looking at these two teachings one has to ask the question, Is the 70th week about Christ or Satan?

John 5:38-40 King James Version (KJV)
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. (not Satan)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Do you follow Protestant teaching or Catholic teaching?

Original Happy Camper said:

If you had the reformers (protestant, protesters) view of Daniels 70 week prophecy instead of the Catholic view from the counter reformation you would not be deceived in the rest of you theology concerning prophecy.

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Really? Well let's see. Let's test your theory based on your knowledge of prophesy with a few questions below.

Original Happy Camper said:

This was none other than the crucifixion of Jesus when he 'confirmed' or ratified the new Covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31:31-33; Hebrews 8:8-13; Matthew 26:27-28; Romans 15:8. This took place in 31 A.D. The stoning of Stephen three and a half years later ended the period of the 70th week.

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Did you just pulled Jeremiah 31:31-33 and Hebrews 8:8-13 out of a hat because they both used the word "new" covenant than you thought to yourself, this must be the new covenant Jesus established in Matthew 26:27-28?


Here's the first question. How can the covenant in Jeremiah 31:31 and Hebrews 8:8 be the same covenant as the one in Matthew 26:27-28 without the Kingdom of Israel in Jerusalem during the first coming?

In other words, you're missing the other 10 tribes of Israel.

Only the descendants of Judah, Benjamin and Levi where regathered back in the holy land at that time.....hilarious!

Second Question: How can you fulfill Daniel's 70th week "without" descendants from all 12 of Jacob's sons in the first century?

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Scroll down a few verses in Jeremiah 31 to verses 38-40. Here's question #3, actually a request.


Tell us how the new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-33 was fulfilled in 31 AD when Jeremiah said Jerusalem will never again be destroy.










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Endtime Survivors said:

Yeah, he comes "like a thief" for people who are not prepared. They stopped caring about what God wanted and instead cared about the cares of this world and as a result their destruction was "sudden". Cross reference this with Matthew 24:43-46 and 1 Thessalonians 5:4 . Jesus said plenty about discernment, preparedness and watching for the signs.

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It's not that they didn't care. It's because they don't believe. The bible tells us Christ cannot rescue those who do not believe. So many scriptures advocating to be watchful of His return. This is indication of one's faith in His return.

Do you think Christian don't care if He returns?

Endtime Survivors said:

That doesn't make any sense. The flood was God's wrath. By the time it started raining it was too late to build a boat. The warning was Noah's testimony.

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What part doesn't make sense to you? If you saw the flood coming at you, are you not aware you're about to endure tribulation?

If you saw millions of people raptured and disappeared, what do you think will happen on earth the next 7 years?

Endtime Survivors said:

Nah, tribulation (even Great Tribulation) happens to all of God's people.

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So how will old testament saints that passed away like David, Abraham, Peter and Paul experience the coming great tribulation?

Endtime Survivors said:

Nope, the video says God destroyed them for putting these things before him (i.e. they were more important than God). It was true then, and it will be true in the last days, Just like Jesus said.

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And the video you created is wrong. God doesn't destroy people for not making Him their priority. If God destroyed people, how will He get them to repent and seek Him?

Not everyone immediately dies when the tribulation begins. He'll preserve them but keep adding to their tribulation till they finally humble themselves and repent. Why do you think Jesus calls the tribulation the hour of testing? He wants people to seek Him so He can begin a relationship, but unfortunately some people will need to be humble first till they have nothing left but to seek Him.

Endtime Survivors said:

Yup, and the reason they were oblivious, according to Jesus' explanation, was a pre-occupation with all the normal, ordinary cares of life.

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You're not getting this but at least you're heading in the right direction. They were preoccupy with the routines of everyday life because they didn't believe tribulation was coming upon them.

Endtime Survivors said:

They "didn't know" because they chose not to know.

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I really really think you should apply this when reading about the pre-tribulation rapture. It's so plainly obvious from scripture the rapture is pre-trib and not post-trib.

Psalm3704 said:

Really? Well let's see. Let's test your theory based on your knowledge of prophesy with a few questions below.
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You appear to not want to answer two basic questions that I put forth to you,

Is the 70th week about Christ or Satan?

Do you follow Protestant teaching or Catholic teaching?

Please answer these two questions based on my post as this forum is for discussion not a holier than thou attitude.

Original Happy Camper said:

You appear to not want to answer two basic questions that I put forth to you,

Is the 70th week about Christ or Satan?

Do you follow Protestant teaching or Catholic teaching?

Please answer these two questions based on my post as this forum is for discussion not a holier than thou attitude.

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Are you trying to avoid those questions I asked by diverting questions at me instead?

I don't see how these two questions you're asking has any significance at proving Jeremiah 31:31-33 happened in 31 AD.

Even if I answer your questions, you're still not gonna be able to answer my questions. There's just no evidence the Kingdom of Israel was ever gathered back into the holy land during the first century to fulfill the 70th week. Plus the bible has plenty of scriptures about a future gathering of the Kingdom of Israel. On top of that, Jeremiah said Jerusalem will never be destroy ever again once Jeremiah 31:31-33 is fulfilled. That's already two
indisputable evidence you won't be able to disprove.

So what will happen is this. I end up answering both your questions. You won't be able to answer mines or disprove me on Jeremiah 31:31-33, but than you'll end up using a strawman and we end up arguing about something else.

So let's do this. Here's a new question you can successfully answer. "What is this new covenant given in Jeremiah 31:31-33?"

This covenant if unlike any other covenant God has ever made with man, not with Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Adam, David, Noah, Moses or any other OT figure. After this new covenant, God will never need to make another covenant with Israel ever again, maybe not man ever again.

Just tell me what this new covenant is and I'll answer 5 questions from you. The two up top and three more, whatever you ask. 5 for 1 is not a bad trade!

Don't tell me this new covenant is the one Jesus established in Matthew 26:27-28 because it's not. Nor give me guesses. I already know what this covenant is and wouldn't ask if I didn't know myself.

Here's a hint: God is putting this covenant in their mind and heart, something He's never done with any covenant in the past with anyone.








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Endtime Survivors said:

Don't care; don't believe. I see a valid relationship between the two and I think Jesus was trying to show that even seemingly normal behaviors can show a lack of belief.

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I very much disagree. Take a poll of one million Christians, asked them two questions, 1) Would they like to see Jesus return soon and 2) Do they believe Jesus will return soon. I'll bet the disparity in the result will be huge. There's a thread on this forum with the same poll and 40% either did not believe Jesus would not return soon or not sure.

Jesus said in the parable of the 10 virgins, 5 made themselves ready bu watching for His return. The wise 5 believed He was coming soon. 5 were foolish with unbelief and did not stay watchful but slumbered. At the end when Christ came and took the 5 wise virgin with Him, the 5 foolish ones begged Christ to take them with Him too.

Bottom line. 50% did not believe but 100% did care to be with Him.

Endtime Survivors said:

Jesus mentioned much the same when he mentioned the people who would show up at the gate assuming they'd be let in because they knew Jesus, but that he'd reject them because they were "workers of iniquity". They behavior did not match their belief.

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Well isn't it obvious? Sinners cannot be allowed into heaven. God and sin don't mix. God even turned His back on Jesus momentarily when He took on the sins of the world just before He said it is finished.

Endtime Survivors said:

Something similar happens when we become distracted by the "cares of the world", including and probably most especially the normal, ordinary activities which, precisely because of their ordinary-ness, escape critical scrutiny. Jesus specifically mentioned those normal, ordinary activities because he wanted to make a point that no behavior, no matter how normal or ordinary is beyond becoming sinful. We should do all things to the glory of God; not just the spiritual things like going to church, reading the Bible or helping the poor.

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You keep telling us we should glorify God but yet you keep accuse God of killing people for doing normal ordinary everyday activities in life which are not considered sin by Him.

Endtime Survivors said:

Ask the people of Noah and Lot's day; they were definitely destroyed. It's really hard to understand how you can possibly argue that God won't destroy people for putting other things before him (i.e. for not making him their priority). That's just, one of the most basic principles of Christianity; nothing before God.

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Here you go again with the God kills people mentality even after I gave you reasons yesterday about God trying to save the world.

Endtime Survivors said:

There IS such a concept as being "too late". Again, the people who showed at the gate asking to be let in were too late. At some point the warnings cease and God acts. When that happens, the action itself, (i.e. the wrath) means it's too late to change. When the rains started, it was too late for the people to repent. The wrath had started. The same with the fireballs for Sodom; when they started dropping, it was too late to say, "ohhh hey, now I get it. I should have listened to you God". They were destroyed.

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You keep believing and keep saying this and it'll be too late for you. God grants people what they choose to believe.

But for others, it's never too late, even if you're in hell. Hell is only a place of temporary confinement and punishment until the Great White Throne Judgement. Those later resurrected from hell are given one final chance to repent. After that comes the Lake of Fire, than it's too late.

Endtime Survivors said:

It will be the same in the end. The Great Tribulation will be God's final warning to the world. When the 7th trumpet sounds, the mystery will be finished and Jesus will gather his people for the marriage supper of the lamb while the wrath is being poured out on a disobedient world below.

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Now you're being careless as a post-tribber.

If Jesus already raptured the church for the marriage supper while the wrath is being poured out, than it's not a post-tribulation rapture.

Gotcha!!!

Endtime Survivors said:

It's important to distinguish between specific spiritual concepts and general specific concepts. Tribulation, trials, suffering, and persecution is something God allows all people to experience. This general spiritual truth is evidence that there is no spiritual principle for God taking his people out of the way of Tribulation, even if it is "Great Tribulation". All who live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution, whether it was the persecution of Jesus in his day, or the persecution of the saints in the Great Tribulation.

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You're not getting it and I don't think you ever will. Last night I read the dialogue between you and Luke17:37 in the post-tribber safehouse and it's pretty clear you don't know what the tribulation is nor distinguish it from John 16:33, nor understand the great tribulation, the wrath, the timing of all of them. That also includes the seals, trumpets and bowls. Unless you can wipe away what you believe and humble yourself, no one will be able to teach you anything about them, not even the holy spirit.

Take no offense what I just told you but sometimes a little constructive criticism is needed to wake someone up. Proverbs 27:6

If not my advise, at least take Luke17:37's, except her timing on the seals, trumpets and bowls.










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Psalm3704 said:

Are you trying to avoid those questions I asked by diverting questions at me instead?

I don't see how these two questions you're asking has any significance at proving Jeremiah 31:31-33 happened in 31 AD.

Even if I answer your questions, you're still not gonna be able to answer my questions. There's just no evidence the Kingdom of Israel was ever gathered back into the holy land during the first century to fulfill the 70th week. Plus the bible has plenty of scriptures about a future gathering of the Kingdom of Israel. On top of that, Jeremiah said Jerusalem will never be destroy ever again once Jeremiah 31:31-33 is fulfilled. That's already two
indisputable evidence you won't be able to disprove.

So what will happen is this. I end up answering both your questions. You won't be able to answer mines or disprove me on Jeremiah 31:31-33, but than you'll end up using a strawman and we end up arguing about something else.

So let's do this. Here's a new question you can successfully answer. "What is this new covenant given in Jeremiah 31:31-33?"

This covenant if unlike any other covenant God has ever made with man, not with Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Adam, David, Noah, Moses or any other OT figure. After this new covenant, God will never need to make another covenant with Israel ever again, maybe not man ever again.

Just tell me what this new covenant is and I'll answer 5 questions from you. The two up top and three more, whatever you ask. 5 for 1 is not a bad trade!

Don't tell me this new covenant is the one Jesus established in Matthew 26:27-28 because it's not. Nor give me guesses. I already know what this covenant is and wouldn't ask if I didn't know myself.

Here's a hint: God is putting this covenant in their mind and heart, something He's never done with any covenant in the past with anyone.

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You appear to not want to answer two basic questions that I put forth to you,

Is the 70th week about Christ or Satan?

Do you follow Protestant teaching or Catholic teaching?

Please answer these two questions based on my post #47 above.

You have stated your position on the covenant many times on this forum, and I am convinced that you believe you are right. However your understanding is based on foundational principles that I am trying to get you to disclose and support.

John 5:38-40 King James Version (KJV)
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. (not Satan)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Endtime Survivors said:

Nah, not for doing normal, everyday activities, but for becoming distracted by the cares of this world, which often include normal, everyday activities. This is actually a pretty simple, and well documented spiritual concept.

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No it's not documented anywhere in the bible. Prove me wrong. God doesn't destroy people for that reason. I would love to see you start quoting scripture, and unless you do, you have no credibility on your opinions of what is spiritual. Start quoting the bible. This isn't the first time I've asked you.

Endtime Survivors said:

It's almost like you're trying to argue that being distracted by the cares of this world isn't a real thing.

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It's not. The way you put it, it doesn't warrant judgement upon the world and a complete annihilation of mankind with the exception of 8 people.

God didn't use the flood to destroy people for being distracted by the cares of everyday life. I told you before and I'll tell a thousand times more, God used Noah to warn people about a coming flood. God tried to save people. The flood was to destroy satan's work.

If God was trying to destroy man, why would He have Noah warn everyone of the flood?

Endtime Survivors said:

The video lists several examples of Jesus describing that very thing, and I've also personally listed several examples here on this thread, but you keep going back to " God doesn't punish people for normal everyday activities" which is a point I've never made and on which I've corrected you several times.

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You're kinda slow EtW, almost obtuse.

I've never said "God doesn't punish people for normal everyday activities." He very much will disciple people for committing sin, it happens daily. What I've said is God doesn't destroy people for doing everyday normal routines of life. Destroy and punish are two different things.

Let's just cut to the chase to the real question I've been trying to across to you. Why would you advise others to life their lives for God's glory doing things of everyday life that would honor Him when you yourself don't honor Him in mind and heart?

You think He destroyed people during the flood for being distracted with everyday cares of life. You refuse to believe He sent Noah to warn people about the flood. What you say to others and what you think seems to have contradictions. Why is that?









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Original Happy Camper said:

You appear to not want to answer two basic questions that I put forth to you,

Is the 70th week about Christ or Satan?

Do you follow Protestant teaching or Catholic teaching?

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They're both wrong answers. What's the prophecy of Daniel's 70th week about OHC? Do you need help? Read Daniel 9:24 and look up "thy people and thy city." What doe thy people and thy city mean to you OHC?

Your understanding of prophecy on the Catholic view is also wrong as well as what you think the futurism view is. Instead adhering to the teachings in the bible, you follow the teachings of prophecy from those of men, the likes of John Wycliffe, John Knox, William Tyndale, John Calvin, Martin Luther, John Huss, Charles Spurgeon, John and Charles Wesley and Jonathan Edwards were strong proponents of the Historicist view, in other words preterism. Could this be the reason why you believe the 70th week of Daniel was fulfilled shortly after 31 AD?

Everything quoted below are things you wrote in post 47. You might have better luck getting an answer with your baited questions asking a full preterist.





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Endtime Survivors said:

Post# 43, I said;
People can easily fool themselves into thinking they are fine with their various plans until one day they die and find out they had it all wrong. That was the lesson in the parable of the man who build bigger barns. God called him a fool. Why? All he did is what most normal people do all over the world; work for their various goods and try to build their businesses, careers and various pursuits into something bigger/more valuable.
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But, you'll probably say it's not a bible reference if there isn't a number next to it *eye roll*

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/serious facepalm!

Fool! LOL! The parable of the rich fool is about greed. Have you not heard Jesus say buy gold from Him in heaven and lay up treasures in heaven and not on earth? Do you know what He meant?

Endtime Survivors said:

What you're doing here is called "changing the goal posts". It's a analogy in which the opposing team shifts their goal posts to prevent the other side from scoring. In debate it's used to suggest that one side is shifting the emphasis of the debate in a way which avoids the point.

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You're just trying to weasel your way out of a jam. Here's the question again. "If God was trying to destroy man, why would He have Noah warn everyone of the flood?"

Endtime Survivors said:

No one here said that God is trying to destroy man. The point, right from the beginning, was that there are consequences for our behavior. The fact is that man has been destroyed (and will be destroyed again), and the reasons Jesus gives for the Days of Noah and lot (and the last days) are that they were too busy with the cares of this world.

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This one deserves 5 facepalms!

Here's what you said:



Need I say more? I rest my case!

A poor argument attempting to weasel your way out of a jam. Back to the question: "If God was trying to destroy man, why would He have Noah warn everyone of the flood?"

Endtime Survivors said:

It's true that punishment doesn't always equate to destruction, but punishment can include destruction, which is the context of my comment in relation to your comments. What you're doing here is playing with semantics.

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Another attempt to weasel your way out of a jam. Punishment for doing everyday normal routines of life: eating, drinking, marrying does not warrant the type of punishment that constitute destruction.

You seem to think fondly and hold high regards for God.

Endtime Survivors said:

That's what he said, unless you'd consider things like marriage, buying/selling, eating/drinking, building, planting etc to be different from the "everyday cares of life". If so, then what DOES constitute the everyday cares of this life?

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That's what He said but that's not what He told us as the reason why they were destroyed. Jesus went on to tell us numerous times "you do not know!"

Considering we've gone over this numerous times, it's safe to say you have a reading and comprehension deficiency issue. Read how many times He emphasize "not knowing" when He's coming.

Doing the normal routines of everyday life is part of not knowing when the flood was coming. They did not know until they saw the flood and realized they entered into tribulation.

It'll be the same when Christ comes for the church. Nobody knows when Daniel's 70th will start until the rapture of the church. When the rapture hits, the whole world will know they've enter into the tribulation.

Endtime Survivors said:

This is legitimate evidence that you're not hearing me. In post# 46 I said, "That doesn't make any sense. The flood was God's wrath. By the time it started raining it was too late to build a boat. The warning was Noah's testimony."

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No, I hear you. I just don't agree with your logic one bit because you makes no sense. Since Noah knew about a coming flood and warned others, why would he wait till it started raining to build the ark?

Another poor argument attempting to weasel your way out of a jam.

Endtime Survivors said:

As you can see from my previous comment, no contradiction. I think you're struggling with this topic probably because it hits too close to home.

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LOL!

Endtime Survivors said:

We all have struggles with the day-to-day cares of this world, being too busy for God, being attached to materialism, being distracted by emotional relationships, or worldly business affairs.

Acknowledging that there is a problem is half the battle.

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LOL some more!

Your issue is your issue. Don't think everyone's in the same boat as you. You're struggling because you don't know God. Nor do you have a relationship with Him. Trust me I know this just be reading how fondly you think of Him as a destroyer of people.

One of the greatest gift of getting to know Him is revealed by Jesus. "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid" John 14:27

Take my word and advise, I don't struggle like you. Get to know Him, and you'll find peace and joy, and everything else taken care of, even your knowledge of prophecy. It's a gift He gives to those who has a relationship. A gift you desperately need.










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Endtimes, I advise you not to bother replying to the above post.
We can all see how he/she casts nasty aspersions about your faith and makes your reasoned responses into something you never meant.
It is quite noticeable how those who grip onto the rapture theory get nasty and resort to character assignation, when challenged with scriptures they can't counter.