The Days Being Shortened

[HisdaughterJen]

Ok then, well let me ask you this - why couldn't the 24 hour days of the great tribulation be literally shortened? And, also, what does "the day shone not for the third part of it, and the night likewise" mean in your estimation? Because it seems pretty clear to me from that verse that the interpretation that makes the most sense is the shortening of a 24 hour day down to 16 hours.

The 4th trumpet of the 7th seal says that 1/3 of the day and night will have no light. It doesn't tell us why.

What happened previously in the 1-4rd trumpets of the 7th seal:

1. Hail, fire, and blood burns 1/3 of earth
2. Burning "mountain" into sea turns water to blood
3. Burning star turns water bitter

Sounds like a meteor/asteroid shower hitting earth to me.

If all of that just happened, it's no surprise to me that 1/3 of the day and night would be dark because of celestial events in a certain portion of the atmosphere as the earth spins.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Ok then, well let me ask you this - why couldn't the 24 hour days of the great tribulation be literally shortened? And, also, what does "the day shone not for the third part of it, and the night likewise" mean in your estimation? Because it seems pretty clear to me from that verse that the interpretation that makes the most sense is the shortening of a 24 hour day down to 16 hours.

You are correct, Achilles. The days of 24 hour periods are literally "cut off" [the Greek means that], shortened, by one third. The numbers of them remain exactly as prophesied, counted, numbers, equaling a total of seven years, counted exactly as to their number in the Word of God from the very starting point of them to the very ending point of them. They are counted exactly in the Word, and God will not break His Word, ever.


But I have come to see in the Word of God that the earth is fixed, does not rotate, does not spin, and is not tilted.
This is the message of the Word of God over and over again, that the universe is earth centered, and all the universe and heavens were stretched out from the starting point of the earth, on the second day of creation week.

When Joshua commanded the sun and moon to stand still in their places, they stood still, not the earth.
When YHWH gave the sign to Hezekiah, He made the sun go backwards for ten degrees. He moved the sun, not the earth.

Now in Isaiah, you will find that the earth will be moved out of its place, turned upside down, and jump about as a chased roe and stagger as a drunken man in the days of the tribulation, when the waves roar, earthquakes are in diverse places, and every island flees, and the sun shines seven times brighter.
This is also in Enoch, who says the days will be shortened, and the seasons will be backward and fruits out of season, and that the sun will shine more brightly than its order in the tribulation, which he prophesied about first, as being that time of treasured up wrath of God, on the inhabitants of the earth, when all iniquity will be removed for the second consummation of sin on earth [the flood was the first consummation of sin on earth, stated Enoch].
You are correct in that this heat will come on the earth when the sun is smitten by the bowl of wrath cast into it, and the inhabitants of the earth are burned with great heat -and curse God.

 

[zeke37]

Ok then, well let me ask you this - why couldn't the 24 hour days of the great tribulation be literally shortened? And, also, what does "the day shone not for the third part of it, and the night likewise" mean in your estimation? Because it seems pretty clear to me from that verse that the interpretation that makes the most sense is the shortening of a 24 hour day down to 16 hours.

Hi bro...

how would making a 24 hour day....say....into only 16 hours,
be for the elect's sake...so they will stay faithful and overcome/not be deceived?



only a shortening of the entire length could do that

 

[HisdaughterJen]

You are correct, Achilles. The days of 24 hour periods are literally "cut off" [the Greek means that], shortened, by one third. The numbers of them remain exactly as prophesied, counted, numbers, equaling a total of seven years, counted exactly as to their number in the Word of God from the very starting point of them to the very ending point of them. They are counted exactly in the Word, and God will not break His Word, ever.


But I have come to see in the Word of God that the earth is fixed, does not rotate, does not spin, and is not tilted.
This is the message of the Word of God over and over again, that the universe is earth centered, and all the universe and heavens were stretched out from the starting point of the earth, on the second day of creation week.

When Joshua commanded the sun and moon to stand still in their places, they stood still, not the earth.
When YHWH gave the sign to Hezekiah, He made the sun go backwards for ten degrees. He moved the sun, not the earth.

Now in Isaiah, you will find that the earth will be moved out of its place, turned upside down, and jump about as a chased roe and stagger as a drunken man in the days of the tribulation, when the waves roar, earthquakes are in diverse places, and every island flees, and the sun shines seven times brighter.
This is also in Enoch, who says the days will be shortened, and the seasons will be backward and fruits out of season, and that the sun will shine more brightly than its order in the tribulation, which he prophesied about first, as being that time of treasured up wrath of God, on the inhabitants of the earth, when all iniquity will be removed for the second consummation of sin on earth [the flood was the first consummation of sin on earth, stated Enoch].
You are correct in that this heat will come on the earth when the sun is smitten by the bowl of wrath cast into it, and the inhabitants of the earth are burned with great heat -and curse God.

Jesus said the days of the tribulation are cut short for the sake of the elect. He said that when the tribulation is cut short, the sun/moon darken/stars fall which is the 6th seal found in Rev 6. Therefore the shortening of days of the tribulation is AT the 6th seal.

The 4th trumpet of the 7th seal darkens light sources 1/3 of the time. It is not shortening days. Just ask Alaska. Just because light sources are hidden, likely by a celestial event or dust due to the prior trumpets, doesn't mean that the earth is turning faster, etc.

These are two different events separated by 3 trumpet-events.

Revelation is describing a two-sided, 7-sealed scroll which is the judgment and wrath of God which Jesus was worthy to open when he ascended. He opened the first four seals upon His ascension, just as he promised he would.

The last three seals will be opened together as the Day of the Lord/Day of Wrath is about to begin.

 

[zeke37]

well, Rev 8-9-10-(most of 11 and 12)-13 happens before the 6th seal is fulfilled

 

[Achilles6129]

Hi bro...

how would making a 24 hour day....say....into only 16 hours,
be for the elect's sake...so they will stay faithful and overcome/not be deceived?



only a shortening of the entire length could do that

Zeke,

You asked why a shortening of the day into 16 hours instead of 24 could help the elect. I think I gave the reason in my initial post but some people have misunderstood it. Here's what I'm saying:

The trumpet/vial judgments are overlapping. In other words, (just for example) the sequence might go 1st trumpet, 2nd trumpet, 1st vial, 3rd trumpet, 2nd vial, etc. I am not going to quote a bunch of verses in Rev. to try to prove this at the moment.

What I'm saying is that the sun is given power to scorch men with fire before the days are shortened to 16 hours. The days are then shortened to 16 hours, because if they remained 24 hours long then no one would survive the massive increase in the sun's heat. So the shortening of the day will actually save the elect from dying. So basically I'm saying that this verse happens first:

"8And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. 9And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory." Rev. 16:8-9

Then this verse happens:

"12And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise." Rev. 8:12

The days are shortened down to 16 hours from 24 hours to protect the elect from the heat of the sun (in my theory).

 

[zeke37]

Zeke,

You asked why a shortening of the day into 16 hours instead of 24 could help the elect. I think I gave the reason in my initial post but some people have misunderstood it. Here's what I'm saying:

The trumpet/vial judgments are overlapping. In other words, (just for example) the sequence might go 1st trumpet, 2nd trumpet, 1st vial, 3rd trumpet, 2nd vial, etc. I am not going to quote a bunch of verses in Rev. to try to prove this at the moment.

What I'm saying is that the sun is given power to scorch men with fire before the days are shortened to 16 hours. The days are then shortened to 16 hours, because if they remained 24 hours long then no one would survive the massive increase in the sun's heat. So the shortening of the day will actually save the elect from dying. So basically I'm saying that this verse happens first:

"8And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. 9And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory." Rev. 16:8-9

Then this verse happens:

"12And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise." Rev. 8:12

The days are shortened down to 16 hours from 24 hours to protect the elect from the heat of the sun (in my theory).

ahhhhh....I see...


I understand your view
I think mine holds more merit, because, in your case, the shortening would before everyone to survive, not just the elect.








it has to be something specific to them....



if Satan was allowed the full week/hour, then his miracles and lies would be enough to convince even the elect....(given enough time)

but God has shortened that time, to IMBO 5 months

 

[yeshuasavedme]

ahhhhh....I see...


I understand your view
I think mine holds more merit, because, in your case, the shortening would before everyone to survive, not just the elect.

Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened/cut off those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

 

[zeke37]

Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened/cut off those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

well, since they are flesh, they need to survive...but the fact is that the time is shortened for their sake,not all flesh...that's just a bi-product.








but for the elect's sake

 

[Achilles6129]

ahhhhh....I see...


I understand your view
I think mine holds more merit, because, in your case, the shortening would before everyone to survive, not just the elect.








it has to be something specific to them....



if Satan was allowed the full week/hour, then his miracles and lies would be enough to convince even the elect....(given enough time)

but God has shortened that time, to IMBO 5 months

Zeke,

It is something specific for the elect. Jesus Christ says that except those days were shortened, no flesh should be saved, so the days are shortened (down to 16 hours) in order to save the elect from the sun.

Also, Zeke, nowhere does it ever say that the days are shortened so the elect will not be deceived. This is something that has been read into the text. The days are shortened so the elect will survive:

"22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Mt. 24:22

The days are then shortened so the elect will survive, not "to protect them from deception" because it is actually impossible to deceive the elect. And, since we know the tribulation is 42 months, it is impossible for it to be shortened. Therefore, the only thing Christ could be talking about is the shortening of a 24 hour day.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Zeke,

It is something specific for the elect. Jesus Christ says that except those days were shortened, no flesh should be saved, so the days are shortened (down to 16 hours) in order to save the elect from the sun.

Also, Zeke, nowhere does it ever say that the days are shortened so the elect will not be deceived. This is something that has been read into the text. The days are shortened so the elect will survive:

"22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Mt. 24:22

The days are then shortened so the elect will survive, not "to protect them from deception" because it is actually impossible to deceive the elect. And, since we know the tribulation is 42 months, it is impossible for it to be shortened. Therefore, the only thing Christ could be talking about is the shortening of a 24 hour day.

There is NO scripture in the Bible that says the TRIBULATION is 42 months.

Look through the scriptures for a definition of the great tribulation.

The WRATH is 42 months.

1. Desolation of Israel
2. Tribulation
3. Wrath
4. Destruction

 

[Achilles6129]

There is NO scripture in the Bible that says the TRIBULATION is 42 months.

Look through the scriptures for a definition of the great tribulation.

The WRATH is 42 months.

1. Desolation of Israel
2. Tribulation
3. Wrath
4. Destruction

Hey there Jen,

The great tribulation is indeed the 42 month reign of the antichrist. As far as your claim that no Scripture says the tribulation is 42 months, I would say it is implied throughout. Not to mention that there is no Scripture that says the wrath is 42 months. Actually, the tribulation and the wrath are the same thing - they both last 42 months.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Hey there Jen,

The great tribulation is indeed the 42 month reign of the antichrist. As far as your claim that no Scripture says the tribulation is 42 months, I would say it is implied throughout. Not to mention that there is no Scripture that says the wrath is 42 months. Actually, the tribulation and the wrath are the same thing - they both last 42 months.

No, you are wrong.

Jesus said the great tribulation follows the desolation of Israel in Matt 24. Jesus said when the great tribulation is cut short, the sun/moon darken/stars fall - THAT sun/moon darkening/stars falling is the 6th seal.

If you look at the 6th seal, it ACTUALLY says, "The day of God's wrath has begun, and who shall be able to stand".

The Tribulation and the Wrath are DEFINITELY NOT the same, because the BIBLE actually says so!


Mat 24:29¶Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
compare:

Rev 6:12¶And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
...

Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[Achilles6129]

No, you are wrong.

Jesus said the great tribulation follows the desolation of Israel in Matt 24. Jesus said when the great tribulation is cut short, the sun/moon darken/stars fall - THAT sun/moon darkening/stars falling is the 6th seal.

If you look at the 6th seal, it ACTUALLY says, "The day of God's wrath has begun, and who shall be able to stand".

The Tribulation and the Wrath are DEFINITELY NOT the same, because the BIBLE actually says so!


Mat 24:29¶Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
compare:

Rev 6:12¶And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
...

Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Actually, Jen, the red word highlighted in your response is incorrect. It does not say the day of God's wrath has begun, it says the day of his wrath has come. Big difference there. And, actually, the sixth seal is the return of Jesus Christ. I was actually planning to post an article about that on here in a little bit. But here's the sixth seal for ya:

"17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" Rev. 6:17

Come, #2064, erchomai (the same word used basically for all "come"'s in the Bible), from Thayer's Lexicon:
1) to come
a) of persons
1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public
2) metaph.
a) to come into being, arise, come forth, show itself, find place or influence
b) be established, become known, to come (fall) into or unto
3) to go, to follow one.

I am going to post something in a little bit about the sixth seal, proving that it is actually the return of Jesus Christ, but in another thread, not this one.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Actually, Jen, the red word highlighted in your response is incorrect. It does not say the day of God's wrath has begun, it says the day of his wrath has come. Big difference there. And, actually, the sixth seal is the return of Jesus Christ. I was actually planning to post an article about that on here in a little bit. But here's the sixth seal for ya:

"17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" Rev. 6:17

Come, #2064, erchomai (the same word used basically for all "come"'s in the Bible), from Thayer's Lexicon:
1) to come
a) of persons
1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public
2) metaph.
a) to come into being, arise, come forth, show itself, find place or influence
b) be established, become known, to come (fall) into or unto
3) to go, to follow one.

I am going to post something in a little bit about the sixth seal, proving that it is actually the return of Jesus Christ, but in another thread, not this one.

The removal of the church (resurrection and change to glorified bodies) is the return of Jesus.

Then comes the wrath of God, the 7th seal, which includes the trumpets, the beasts and the bowls.

THEN Christ comes on the clouds to destroy.

It's ALL the return of the Lord.

The seals are numbered and are on a two-sided scroll. There is no way that the coming on the clouds to destroy AFTER the 7th seal is the same as the 6th seal. The seals are numbered for a reason.

 

[Achilles6129]

The removal of the church (resurrection and change to glorified bodies) is the return of Jesus.

Then comes the wrath of God, the 7th seal, which includes the trumpets, the beasts and the bowls.

THEN Christ comes on the clouds to destroy.

It's ALL the return of the Lord.

The seals are numbered and are on a two-sided scroll. There is no way that the coming on the clouds to destroy AFTER the 7th seal is the same as the 6th seal. The seals are numbered for a reason.

Well, I will be showing with a new thread soon that the sixth seal is actually the Second Coming of Christ, i.e., Armageddon.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Well, I will be showing with a new thread soon that the sixth seal is actually the Second Coming of Christ, i.e., Armageddon.

Rev 16 proves that to be incorrect. The gathering of the armies for armageddon is in the 6th bowl/vial of the 7th seal.

The scroll has 7 seals.

The 7th seal has 7 trumpets and 7 bowls. The 7th trumpet and the 7th bowl are identical, therefore the same. The order of the 7th seal is:
trumpets 1-6, bowls 1-6, trumpet 7/bowl 7.

Things are numbered consecutively in Revelation for a reason.

The 5th/6th/7th seals are opened consecutively together and are indeed the return of the Lord but He doesn't come on the clouds to destroy until after the events of the 7th seal are complete.

 

[Achilles6129]

Rev 16 proves that to be incorrect. The gathering of the armies for armageddon is in the 6th bowl/vial of the 7th seal.

The scroll has 7 seals.

The 7th seal has 7 trumpets and 7 bowls. The 7th trumpet and the 7th bowl are identical, therefore the same. The order of the 7th seal is:
trumpets 1-6, bowls 1-6, trumpet 7/bowl 7.

Things are numbered consecutively in Revelation for a reason.

The 5th/6th/7th seals are opened consecutively together and are indeed the return of the Lord but He doesn't come on the clouds to destroy until after the events of the 7th seal are complete.

No, it does not. The seals/trumpets/vials are all talking about the return of Christ from different angles. Christ returns at the sixth seal, the seventh trumpet, and the seventh vial.

And, actually, the book of Revelation is way out of chronological order deliberately.

I guess you'll just have to read my article Or don't

 

[HisdaughterJen]

No, it does not. The seals/trumpets/vials are all talking about the return of Christ from different angles. Christ returns at the sixth seal, the seventh trumpet, and the seventh vial.

And, actually, the book of Revelation is way out of chronological order deliberately.

I guess you'll just have to read my article Or don't

No it is not out of order chronologically. It is numbered for a reason.
The events of the 7th seal DO NOT preceed the events of the 6th seal.

Revelation is describing the events that happen when each seal is opened on a SEVEN SEALED SCROLL, and after.

Jesus took that scroll and began opening it upon his ascension, just like it says.

 

[Achilles6129]

No it is not out of order chronologically. It is numbered for a reason.
The events of the 7th seal DO NOT preceed the events of the 6th seal.

Revelation is describing the events that happen when each seal is opened on a SEVEN SEALED SCROLL, and after.

Jesus took that scroll and began opening it upon his ascension, just like it says.

I do not read anywhere in Rev. where Christ begins opening the seals upon his ascension.

Perhaps you should read and consider my article. You might find I made some good points