The Day of the Lord is at Hand for all the Nations

[keras]

I rebuke your futurist reading of Romans 9 as basically calling me not a Christian because I'm not Jewish!

What accusatory rubbish!
I will never question your faith, that is way beyond my pay grade.
No one changes their ethnic identity, what we were born into. It is by faith and trust in Jesus, that we become children of the Living God. Romans 9:24-26

Ah - so now you're equating Romans 9 with OT prophesies about God's people living in the new heavens and new earth?

No, I am not referring to the NH, NE, that comes after the Millennium. Revelation 21:1-7
But before Jesus Returns, the Christians from every race, nation and language, will occupy all of the holy Land, being the people God always wanted there. His witnesses, Isaiah 43:8:13, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations; Isaiah 49:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16

I'm not sure this sentence even makes sense?

Many Christians have had to withstand terrible persecution and face death. But reading the dramatic and terrifying things prophesied for the three and a half year Great Tribulation, pales their experiences into insignificance.
Augustine and the Reformers naturally would have thought they were having a 'revelation' experience, as they opposed the anti-Christ Popes. But what happened then and when Christians were fed to the lions and now with beheadings by the likes of ISIS, is nothing like the cosmic and earthly disasters described in Revelation, yet to happen.

Ah, see what you're doing there?
Reading it from your futurist perspective to justify your futurist perspective.
Can you get more circular?

I showed the events as prophesied in a linear sequence, Jesus will not Return until His enemies are disposed of. Psalms 110:1, Hebrews 10:13

We DO have a future, there is much that must happen before Jesus Returns.
Why not take note of what the Prophetic Word tells us about it all?

 

[eclipsenow]

Gen 11:26 Abram +70, Abram was +52 when God called him and they left Ur. Our year 1970.5 BCE He lived in Haran for 23 years, then went to Canaan at age 75. Genesis 12:4 Total years so far = 2000

If you're saying Abram went to Canaan at age 75 / year 2000, then this chronology disagrees with you. Birth of Abraham AM 1946 + 75 years age = 2023 going into Canaan.

Chronology of the Bible - Wikipedia.

 

[eclipsenow]

What accusatory rubbish!
I will never question your faith, that is way beyond my pay grade.
No one changes their ethnic identity, what we were born into. It is by faith and trust in Jesus, that we become children of the Living God. Romans 9:24-26

It's just that when you tie in your futurist readings of OT end times victory scenes with Romans 9 I have to be clear what on earth you're saying, because as far as I can tell, Romans 9 has been in operation for the last 2000 years.

No, I am not referring to the NH, NE, that comes after the Millennium. Revelation 21:1-7
But before Jesus Returns, the Christians from every race, nation and language, will occupy all of the holy Land, being the people God always wanted there. His witnesses, Isaiah 43:8:13, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations; Isaiah 49:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16

The Old Testament victory chapters are Jewish visions of a new age, in Jewish language.
The New Testament unpacks and redirects these to instead of being around Israel, Temple, Sacrifice, etc to being about the whole earth, Jesus, Jesus, and more Jesus.

Many Christians have had to withstand terrible persecution and face death. But reading the dramatic and terrifying things prophesied for the three and a half year Great Tribulation, pales their experiences into insignificance.

Patronising nonsense to an early Christian that just saw his family cut in half or fed to the lions. So you would pretend John wasn't writing to them - that he really was saying "You guys think you've got it bad, wait till you see what happens in 2000 years?" I mean come on! That's just awful. He was writing to them because he SHARED IN THEIR TRIBULATIONS! He knew what it felt like. He was already in jail. He wanted THAT generation that were suffering horrible abuse under Rome to hear and obey him! And all generations after to heed his message, because these Last Days would be horrible! (2000 years and counting! Acts 2, Hebrews 1, etc all show we've been in the Last Days 2000 years etc.)

Augustine and the Reformers naturally would have thought they were having a 'revelation' experience, as they opposed the anti-Christ Popes.

Dude - don't patronise some of these awesome minds.

like the cosmic and earthly disasters described in Revelation, yet to happen.

Well, it depends on which chapter. I of course still say the Lord will return. There's a lot of picture language around that.

But for instance, did you know the whole routine of "A third of them died and 2 thirds of them lived" routine isn't literal? You know that don't you? It's a Hebrew number game that just means "Many people died, and it was horrible, but more people survived than died."

I showed the events as prophesied in a linear sequence, Jesus will not Return until His enemies are disposed of. Psalms 110:1, Hebrews 10:13

Pull the other one it plays jingle bells.

We DO have a future, there is much that must happen before Jesus Returns.

The Lord might return in 5 seconds.
Or 50,000 years.
Or even longer.
We just don't know.

Why not take note of what the Prophetic Word tells us about it all?

Because of all the reasons I've told you so far - what John actually said in Chapter 1, how the New Testament reinterprets ALL those verses you're mentioning, and how Jesus utterly and totally fulfilled all prophesy in his gospel mission to us on earth and ministry from heaven in eschatological tension.
5 seconds or 50,000 years.
We just don't know.
Anyway, I only have to wait 9.5 years and then can say "Told you so!"
The concern I have is that you might lose your faith when your precious crazy-wall charts don't work out as you have predicted - and I just wanted to point out that there are other vastly more scholarly, keen, evangelistic authors that have said differently to you.

 

[keras]

If you're saying Abram went to Canaan at age 75 / year 2000, then this chronology disagrees with you. Birth of Abraham AM 1946 + 75 years age = 2023 going into Canaan.

Is Wikipedia more trustworthy that the Bible?
Please read the Bible timeline carefully; Terah, Abraham's father was 70 when Ab. was born and he was 52 when God called him to leave Ur. I obtain his age of 52 from the addition of the Patriarchs back to Adam, of 1948 years. Total of 2000 years.
Abrahams actual birth date in the Gregorian calendar; was 1918.5 BC.

It's just that when you tie in your futurist readings of OT end times victory scenes with Romans 9 I have to be clear what on earth you're saying, because as far as I can tell, Romans 9 has been in operation for the last 2000 years.

We await the fulfillment of Romans 9:24-26, when we Christians will be in the very place of the ancient Israelites and be called the children of the Living God.

The New Testament unpacks and redirects these to instead of being around Israel, Temple, Sacrifice, etc to being about the whole earth,

No; the holy land remains just that. Currently it is occupied by the apostate Jews and the evil neighbors. Jeremiah 12:14 plainly tells us they will all be gone after the Lords Day of wrath. Only during the Millennium, will all the earth be holy territory.

So you would pretend John wasn't writing to them

Obviously John was not writing to them from Revelation 6:12 onward. The celestial and earthshaking things he prophesied have not happened yet.

Dude - don't patronise some of these awesome minds.

I respect the Early Church Fathers and up to today, writers like N.T. Wright.
However they were either born too soon or were encumbered by doctrines and traditions that led them astray. Daniel 12:4 says knowledge of end time events will not be known until right at the end.
When all the 'expert' writings and commentaries are studied a picture soon emerges of hopeless confusion and useless guesswork. It is a waste of time to bother with their wild assertions regarding the end times.

But for instance, did you know the whole routine of "A third of them died and 2 thirds of them lived" routine isn't literal? You know that don't you? It's a Hebrew number game that just means "Many people died, and it was horrible, but more people survived than died."

You are ollof atwist, aren't you? If 2/3 die, the other third pass thru fire, Zechariah 13:7-9, and only a remnant survive, then that is clear Bible Words. I view your 'interpretation' of that as you re-writing the Bible. Not advisable.

Pull the other one it plays jingle bells.

When Jesus Returns, all of His enemies will be gone. Over a 1/4 of the Bible is devoted to how this will happen.

The Lord might return in 5 seconds.

Jesus cannot Return until all the things prophesied to happen before that glorious Day, have taken place. We have all the information needed to know the whole story.
It is just people like yourself, who don't like the idea they will be involved, who reject it. Do you think Jesus will Return to a world just as it is now?

The concern I have is that you might lose your faith when your precious crazy-wall charts don't work out as you have predicted - and I just wanted to point out that there are other vastly more scholarly, keen, evangelistic authors that have said differently to you.

I do not claim to be 100% right, but as what I do is to promote the Prophetic Word.

Judging from the track record to date, there has been shocking failures and some terrible leading of people astray, by those who should have known better.

Anyway, I only have to wait 9.5 years and then can say "Told you so!"

It will be much sooner that that, when we meet, I hope and pray; in the holy Land.
Then, I will say to you: I told you so!

 

[nolidad]

Obadiah 1:15-21 The Day of the Lord is at hand for all the nations, they will be treated as they have treated others and their wrong actions will recoil upon themselves. My people will drink the wine of God’s wrath, then all the nations in turn will drink of it and be devastated by it. But in Jerusalem there will be a holy remnant, the Lord’s people will be like a flame while the House of Esau will be burnt up with no survivors. My [Christian] people will possess all of the holy Land that was given to Abraham and those in Jerusalem who lead My people will control the lands of the Edomites, but the Kingdom belongs to the Lord.

Isaiah 28:21-22 The Lord will arise as He did at Mt Perazim and in the valley of Gibeon, and storm with rage to do what He must do, to perform His task – a strange and alien deed. But now, have done with all arrogance and pride or the Lord will increase His punishment, for destruction is decreed over the whole Land. Jeremiah 10:18

Isaiah 26:10-11 Lord: Your hand is lifted high and Your enemies can’t see Your good will toward Your people. [Let them see and be ashamed.] Let the fire reserved for Your enemies consume them. The wicked are destroyed, they have never learnt justice, they are corrupt and blinded to Your Majesty and power.

Micah 4:11-12 Now, many nations are massed against Israel, they say: Let Zion suffer outrage, we will gloat over their demise. They are unaware of the Lord’s plans, for His purpose is to gather them like sheaves to the threshing floor.

Nahum 1:5 The earth quakes before the Lord, the world and all who live in it are in tumult. Who can stand before His wrath? Who can resist the fury of His anger, poured out as fire?


‘The Lord will arise and storm with rage, as He did in ancient times’. Jeremiah 30:23-24

‘His task, strange and alien’. We know God as a God of love, but also of justice and it is just to punish those who do not obey Him and who attack His Land. Isaiah 34:5

‘destruction is decreed’. The entire Middle East will be burnt and devastated. Ezekiel 30:3-5, Isaiah 17:1, Amos 1:3-15

‘fire reserved for the Lord’s enemies will consume them, His anger poured out as fire’. A massive sunstrike CME will fulfill all these prophesied effects. Deut. 32:22, Isaiah 66:15-16, Malachi 4:1

‘My people will drink the wine of God’s wrath’. This will be the third ‘swing of the sword’ Ezekiel 21:14, the final judgement/punishment of the Jewish people. Jeremiah 2:9, Eze.24:14

‘now, many nations are massed against Israel’. This perfectly describes the situation today and they want to ‘gloat over her demise’. Psalm 83:1-18

‘The House of Esau, burnt up – no survivors’. Those attacking Israel will be totally wiped out. Isaiah 63:1-6, Zephaniah 2:4-5

‘those who lead My people’. Another proof that all this will happen before the Return of Jesus. Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11

The Day of teh Lords wrath is coming, but it is not at hand!

and changing Jews for Christians in who rules Jerusalem (under the Lord) during the millenial kingdom is altering the word of God via an allegorical interpretation and replacement theology.

 

[Swan7]

Whenever I see anyone using only pieces of scripture like this without any explanation, I’m immediately sceptical.

Just read the Bible with the Holy Spirit and allow Him to explain His Word to you. Don’t bother trying to interpret for yourself because it will be wrong. Get to know God’s language by asking Him.

 

[Douggg]

If you're saying Abram went to Canaan at age 75 / year 2000, then this chronology disagrees with you. Birth of Abraham AM 1946 + 75 years age = 2023 going into Canaan.

Chronology of the Bible - Wikipedia.

View attachment 282183

what's the picture about/from? I don't get it.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Is Wikipedia more trustworthy that the Bible?
Please read the Bible timeline carefully; Terah, Abraham's father was 70 when Ab. was born and he was 52 when God called him to leave Ur. I obtain his age of 52 from the addition of the Patriarchs back to Adam, of 1948 years. Total of 2000 years.
Abrahams actual birth date in the Gregorian calendar; was 1918.5 BC.

We await the fulfillment of Romans 9:24-26, when we Christians will be in the very place of the ancient Israelites and be called the children of the Living God.

No; the holy land remains just that. Currently it is occupied by the apostate Jews and the evil neighbors. Jeremiah 12:14 plainly tells us they will all be gone after the Lords Day of wrath. Only during the Millennium, will all the earth be holy territory.

Obviously John was not writing to them from Revelation 6:12 onward. The celestial and earthshaking things he prophesied have not happened yet.

I respect the Early Church Fathers and up to today, writers like N.T. Wright.
However they were either born too soon or were encumbered by doctrines and traditions that led them astray. Daniel 12:4 says knowledge of end time events will not be known until right at the end.
When all the 'expert' writings and commentaries are studied a picture soon emerges of hopeless confusion and useless guesswork. It is a waste of time to bother with their wild assertions regarding the end times.

You are ollof atwist, aren't you? If 2/3 die, the other third pass thru fire, Zechariah 13:7-9, and only a remnant survive, then that is clear Bible Words. I view your 'interpretation' of that as you re-writing the Bible. Not advisable.

When Jesus Returns, all of His enemies will be gone. Over a 1/4 of the Bible is devoted to how this will happen.

Jesus cannot Return until all the things prophesied to happen before that glorious Day, have taken place. We have all the information needed to know the whole story.
It is just people like yourself, who don't like the idea they will be involved, who reject it. Do you think Jesus will Return to a world just as it is now?

I do not claim to be 100% right, but as what I do is to promote the Prophetic Word.

Judging from the track record to date, there has been shocking failures and some terrible leading of people astray, by those who should have known better.

It will be much sooner that that, when we meet, I hope and pray; in the holy Land.
Then, I will say to you: I told you so!

You have stated in the past(I believe it to be the case) that since the millennium was stated repeatedly that it was meant to be taken literally. What about the following and their relationship to the verses by John that follow?
First, I'll quote what Lord said to himself following the flood. Gen 8: 21The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done. 22"While the earth remains, Seedtime and harvest, And cold and heat, And summer and winter, And day and night Shall not cease."

1 Chronicles:
15Remember His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded to a thousand generations,

16The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac.

Psalm 105:
8He has remembered His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded to a thousand generations,

9The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac.

Exodus 20:
5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on their children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6but showing loving devotion to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Deut 7:
8but because the LORD loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers, the LORD brought you out by a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 9“Know therefore that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments; 10but repays those who hate Him to their faces, to destroy them; He will not delay with him who hates Him, He will repay him to his face

John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him."

John 14:23
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make Our home with him.

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and remain in His love.

1 John 2:3
By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome,

2 John 1:6
And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning, that you must walk in love.

 

[keras]

The Day of teh Lords wrath is coming, but it is not at hand!

At hand, is a broad statement.
I believe Isaiah's prophecy will come to pass within the lifetime of those who saw the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

and changing Jews for Christians in who rules Jerusalem (under the Lord) during the millenial kingdom is altering the word of God via an allegorical interpretation and replacement theology.

No one has 'replaced' the people who will live in Jerusalem during the final few years of this age. They will be the surviving Messianic Jews, joined by all the faithful Christians. As seen in the holy Land in; Revelation 7:1-14.

Whenever I see anyone using only pieces of scripture like this without any explanation, I’m immediately sceptical.

Just read the Bible with the Holy Spirit and allow Him to explain His Word to you. Don’t bother trying to interpret for yourself because it will be wrong. Get to know God’s language by asking Him.

What of the OP do you need to be explained?
God's Plan for these end times, is plainly told to us by all the prophets.

what's the picture about/from? I don't get it.

EN is referring to the Biblical timeline I posted in #19.

You have stated in the past(I believe it to be the case) that since the millennium was stated repeatedly that it was meant to be taken literally. What about the following and their relationship to the verses by John that follow?

Yes; Jesus will Return as King of the world and will reign for a literal 1000 years.
After that, there will come a New Heavens and New Earth. Revelation 21:1-7

For sure, we must stay strong in our faith and keep the Commandments.

 

[Timtofly]

We just don't know.
Anyway, I only have to wait 9.5 years and then can say "Told you so!"
The concern I have is that you might lose your faith when your precious crazy-wall charts don't work out as you have predicted - and I just wanted to point out that there are other vastly more scholarly, keen, evangelistic authors that have said differently to you.

Pretty generous at 9.5 years. Try 9.5 months. My faith is fairly strong. I am even a great procrastinator who can put things off for decades, to the annoyance of those around me.

 

[Timtofly]

what's the picture about/from? I don't get it.

Ever seen the movie, "Sherlock Holmes"?

For a poster who post, "stop patronizing", not hypocritical at all, right?

 

[Douggg]

Ever seen the movie, "Sherlock Holmes"?

no, never seen the movie. I am kinda stayin out of this thread. I was just curious.

 

[keras]

Isaiah 24:1-6 Be warned, the Lord is about to strip the earth, split it and turn it upside down and scatter its inhabitants. Everyone will be affected.

The earth dries up and withers, it is desecrated by those who live in it. They have broken My Laws and violated My covenant, that is why a curse consumes the earth and its peoples suffer, their numbers dwindle, only a few are left.
The Lords Day of vengeance and wrath strikes the earth, punishing all its inhabitants. Isaiah 63:1-6, Revelation 6:12-17.

Isaiah 24:7-13 Crops fail, the people are shocked and anxious. Their cities are in chaos and their houses shuttered and locked. Nothing but desolation is left in the towns, the bridges and highways are destroyed. So it will be throughout the world, among the nations, as an olive tree is beaten and stripped.
Cities and towns will become uninhabitable – no food, power or water and roads impassable. Suddenly, in a single Day, is mentioned in Isaiah 10:7 & Isaiah 47:9 All the nations of the world face the sun over a 24hr period. A huge Coronal mass ejection could strike all the earth in one rotation = Day. Isaiah 30:26

Isaiah 24:14-16a People from the West and the East, acclaim the Lord. In the coasts and islands of the sea, we hear them sing- from the ends of the earth, glorifying the God of Israel.
As Isaiah 30:26 says: On that Day, I will save My people. They will praise the Lord for their salvation. Isaiah 66:8.

Isaiah 24:16b-20 But, there will be trouble for the earth on the Day that the Lord opens the window of heaven and shakes the earth’s foundation. It will lurch and sway like a drunkard and whoever tries to escape will be caught, like in a trap.
Worldwide earthquakes. The unrighteous will be punished- no one will escape. Luke 21:35

Isaiah 24:21-23 On that Day, the Lord will punish the powers in the heavens above and the leaders on the earth below. They will be made prisoners, punished for a long time. The sun and moon will grow pale. God will reign in Jerusalem and will be revealed in His glory to the elders of His people. Reference: REB verses abridged.

The leaders of the nations will be captured and punished. Psalm 149:6-9. The sky will be darkened for a while because of smoke and ash clouds. The Lord’s people will move to and settle in New Israel. The elders and leaders will know Him, as in ancient times, with Abraham, Moses and David, etc. Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11

That all this is before the Return of Jesus, is clear, then; He will come on the clouds with His angels, visible to all and He destroys the armies of the Anti Christ .

The Glory of God will come back into the Temple Holy of Holies, as in Solomon’s day. Ezekiel 43:1-9.

Note; that there is absolutely no hint of a ‘rapture’ of anyone at this time. The Lords people, righteous Israel, will gather and settle in New Israel, in all that area promised to Abraham. Jeremiah 23:3-4. Ezekiel 48.

The survivors of the worlds peoples will organize a one world government, as their leaders have gone. 10 regions will be established, each led by a President. It will not be long before one of them assumes full dictatorial powers.
Revelation tells the rest of the story!

 

[Timtofly]

Isaiah 24:1-6 Be warned, the Lord is about to strip the earth, split it and turn it upside down and scatter its inhabitants. Everyone will be affected.

The earth dries up and withers, it is desecrated by those who live in it. They have broken My Laws and violated My covenant, that is why a curse consumes the earth and its peoples suffer, their numbers dwindle, only a few are left.
The Lords Day of vengeance and wrath strikes the earth, punishing all its inhabitants. Isaiah 63:1-6, Revelation 6:12-17.

Isaiah 24:7-13 Crops fail, the people are shocked and anxious. Their cities are in chaos and their houses shuttered and locked. Nothing but desolation is left in the towns, the bridges and highways are destroyed. So it will be throughout the world, among the nations, as an olive tree is beaten and stripped.
Cities and towns will become uninhabitable – no food, power or water and roads impassable. Suddenly, in a single Day, is mentioned in Isaiah 10:7 & Isaiah 47:9 All the nations of the world face the sun over a 24hr period. A huge Coronal mass ejection could strike all the earth in one rotation = Day. Isaiah 30:26

Isaiah 24:14-16a People from the West and the East, acclaim the Lord. In the coasts and islands of the sea, we hear them sing- from the ends of the earth, glorifying the God of Israel.
As Isaiah 30:26 says: On that Day, I will save My people. They will praise the Lord for their salvation. Isaiah 66:8.

Isaiah 24:16b-20 But, there will be trouble for the earth on the Day that the Lord opens the window of heaven and shakes the earth’s foundation. It will lurch and sway like a drunkard and whoever tries to escape will be caught, like in a trap.
Worldwide earthquakes. The unrighteous will be punished- no one will escape. Luke 21:35

Isaiah 24:21-23 On that Day, the Lord will punish the powers in the heavens above and the leaders on the earth below. They will be made prisoners, punished for a long time. The sun and moon will grow pale. God will reign in Jerusalem and will be revealed in His glory to the elders of His people. Reference: REB verses abridged.

The leaders of the nations will be captured and punished. Psalm 149:6-9. The sky will be darkened for a while because of smoke and ash clouds. The Lord’s people will move to and settle in New Israel. The elders and leaders will know Him, as in ancient times, with Abraham, Moses and David, etc. Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11

That all this is before the Return of Jesus, is clear, then; He will come on the clouds with His angels, visible to all and He destroys the armies of the Anti Christ .

The Glory of God will come back into the Temple Holy of Holies, as in Solomon’s day. Ezekiel 43:1-9.

Note; that there is absolutely no hint of a ‘rapture’ of anyone at this time. The Lords people, righteous Israel, will gather and settle in New Israel, in all that area promised to Abraham. Jeremiah 23:3-4. Ezekiel 48.

The survivors of the worlds peoples will organize a one world government, as their leaders have gone. 10 regions will be established, each led by a President. It will not be long before one of them assumes full dictatorial powers.
Revelation tells the rest of the story!

Ok, poster from the furthest island, verse 16,
"From the farthest part of the earth
we have heard them sing,
“Glory to the Righteous One!”

(Today a hurricane hit several states on the east coast of the US. The name was Isaias.)

Why does this year not resemble Isaiah 24? This is all about the opening of the first 3 seals, and the 4th is about to start. What part about the seals being applicable to the very last days of the church do humans not understand? Sure they may fit in history. Nostradamus fits in history. Many false prophets even the failed ones could be twisted to fit in history, because some history cannot be fact checked after a certain point. It is impossible. Then some claim what is clearly written in Revelation did not come from God, but from Satan. How twisted is that? Ephesians 6:12.

 

[Running2win]

There is to come two Judgments; first the Judgment and punishment of the nations, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, that will commence the end times and lead up to the glorious Return. Habakkuk 3:12, Psalms 2:7-9
Then; after Jesus has reigned as King for the Millennium, there will be the Great White Throne Judgment of every person who has ever lived. Revelation 20:11-15, Daniel 7:9-10

It is the Sixth Seal that will come unexpectedly; as a thief. The Return will not be unexpected, as that will occur exactly 1260 days after the leader of the One World Govt sits in the Temple. 2 Thess 2:4, Revelation 13:5

The suffering of the martyrs, bears no relation to what is described for the end times in Revelation. No one believes that
In fact, those who were and still are persecuted and killed for their faith, can read Revelation and be happy that they didn't experience those dramatic and testing events.
But it just may be that we alive today, will see it all.

Difficult to discuss things with someone who doesn't bother to check my references.
What I am saying there is how the Lord intends to destroy all the ungodly peoples in all of the holy Land. This will enable His faithful, righteous people to go and live there. Isaiah 35, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26 John sees them there in Revelation 7:9.

This is the end times scenario that most simply do not see, with all the weird and unbiblical theories like being raptured to heaven and that we are in the Millennium now, despite Jesus not having Returned yet.

7000 years from the Creation to the Completion of Mankind:

Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3970.5 BC subtracted back from 586 BCE, from:

Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 7:6 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10 Our year 2314.5 BC

Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18 Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70, Abram was +52 when God called him and they left Ur. Our year 1970.5 BCE He lived in Haran for 23 years, then went to Canaan at age 75. Genesis 12:4 Total years so far = 2000

Gen 17:1, Abraham was 99 when the Covenant was made with God. +47 Genesis 17:1-8

Galatians 3:17 Paul states that the Law was given +430 after the Covenant. Total years elapsed until the Exodus – 2477, in our year 1493.5 BC.

[Many ancient records say Comet Typhon passed close the earth at that time. It was the cause of many of the disasters in Egypt.]

1 Kings 6:1 The Temple construction starts, in the 4th year of King Solomon +480 since the Torah was given at the Exodus.. 1 Kings 11:42 Solomon 40 minus 4 = +36, 1 Kings 14:21 Rehoboam +17, 1 Kings 15:2 Abijah +3, 2 Chron 16:13 Asa +41, 1 Kings 22:42 Jehoshaphat +25, 2 Kings 8:17 Jehoram +8, 2 Kings 8:26 Ahaziah +1, 2 Kings 11:1-3 Athaliah +6, 2 Kings 12:1 Joash +40, 2 Kings 14:2 Amaziah +29, 2 Kings 15:1-2 Azariah +52, 2 Kings 15:33 Jotham +16, 2 Kings 16:2 Ahaz +16, 2 Kings 18:1-2 Hezekiah +29, 2 Kings 21:1 Manasseh +55, 2 Kings 21:19 Amon +2, 2 Kings 22:1 Josiah +31, 2 Kings 23:31 Jehoahaz +3mths, 2 Kings 23:36 Jehoiakim +11, 2 Kings 24:8 Jehoichin +3mths, 2 Kings 24:18-20 Zedekiah +11, who ruled until the Babylonian captivity in our year of 586 BC.

Total elapsed years to the first exile of Judah = 3386.5

586 BC + 613.5 years + 2 comes to 29.5 AD, the date of Jesus’ baptism. Luke 3:1 Plus 2 to include the total number of elapsed years, as our calendar system counts years from their commencement.
3386.5 + 613.5 = 4000 years from Adam to Jesus.


January 2020 AD - 29.5 AD = 1990.5 years since the commencement of Jesus’ Ministry.

1990.5 + 4000 = 5990.5 years, is where we are now. 5990.5 + 9.5 = 6000 years

2020 AD + 9.5 = 2029.5 AD

Exactly 2000 years for the present Church age, until Jesus Returns.
4000 since Abraham, 6000 since Adam. Next comes the 1000 year reign of Jesus.

7000 years is God’s decreed time for mankind.

Those who have been found worthy will go into Eternity with God. Revelation 22:1-5

Time of The End by Tim Warner pretty will agrees with your time line. He's pre-mill & post trb. I'm staying out of this one too. We will see!

https://www.amazon.com/Time-End-Tim-Warner/dp/1481074598

 

[eclipsenow]

We await the fulfillment of Romans 9:24-26, when we Christians will be in the very place of the ancient Israelites and be called the children of the Living God.

Err, no. If you're saying Hosea is unfulfilled you're saying I can't be a Christian because I'm not Jewish!

No; the holy land remains just that. Currently it is occupied by the apostate Jews and the evil neighbors. Jeremiah 12:14 plainly tells us they will all be gone after the Lords Day of wrath. Only during the Millennium, will all the earth be holy territory.

Again, the New Testament doesn't care about the 'holy land' any more. It's more onwards and outwards! Acts 1:8 - God Himself through the Holy Spirit arrives in our hearts to do what?

But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”​

The whole earth is God's kingdom now. 1 Peter 2:9

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.​

Obviously John was not writing to them from Revelation 6:12 onward. The celestial and earthshaking things he prophesied have not happened yet.

Well, yeah, because that's a Return passage.
But you can't read it chronologically from there because that passage depicts the end of the world on Judgement Day. So what does this tell us?
It traces themes, not chronologies, ideas, not timetables, it's a sermon, not a crystal ball for some last last lucky last generation of Christians and only THEY get to understand the MAJORITY of the book! Again, that would result in John patronising his generation of Christians.

Daniel 12:4 says knowledge of end time events will not be known until right at the end.

Well, given the Last Days started 2000 years ago (Pentecost, Hebrews 1), I wonder if that mystery has been revealed? I mean, Daniel implies that people will continue to be ungodly..

9 He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.​

Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith—to the only wise God be glory forevermore through Jesus Christ! Amen. (Romans 16:25-27 ESV)​

The gospel going out in Acts 1:8 is the mystery kept secret - now disclosed - going out to all the nations. We're in the time of the end, and have been for 2000 years. It's called the Last Days. (See Peter's Pentecost sermon, Hebrews 1, etc.)

When all the 'expert' writings and commentaries are studied a picture soon emerges of hopeless confusion and useless guesswork. It is a waste of time to bother with their wild assertions regarding the end times.

Oh I agree!
So why are you into it?

You are ollof atwist, aren't you? If 2/3 die, the other third pass thru fire, Zechariah 13:7-9, and only a remnant survive, then that is clear Bible Words. I view your 'interpretation' of that as you re-writing the Bible. Not advisable.

Not in a twist - it's quite clear to me how it fits together.
For instance it sounds like you're confusing the nation of Israel being pruned and pruned and pruned down until it is just one man - Jesus - who stood as our perfect Israel in our place when he bore the wrath of God. Then he rose again, and the new Israel of both Jew and Greek started spreading out into the world. It's the hourglass, with Israel at the top winnowing down to Jesus then the church ballooning out at the bottom.

The number symbolism in Revelation is that if a third die, two thirds survive: more survive than die. Easy.

Jesus cannot Return until all the things prophesied to happen before that glorious Day, have taken place.

That's the great disagreement between Amil theologians and futurists - and yet another reason I'm forced to ask that if we knew it was 50 years away or something - wouldn't we be tempted to kick back and take it easy? But as these schemes work - someone has always worked themselves into a frenzy about some chart or timeline of their own that they have utterly and totally imposed on Scripture - like you with Hosea's "repent and be forgiven quickly" passage and Jesus going on a walk!

We have all the information needed to know the whole story.

Hosea's "repent and be forgiven quickly" passage and Jesus going on a walk? Um, no.

It is just people like yourself, who don't like the idea they will be involved,

You don't know me or what motivates me.

Do you think Jesus will Return to a world just as it is now?

I think it will be like in the Days of Noah.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.​

Like today? Yeah, pretty much. Aussies do like to eat and drink and party and have relationships and party and eat and drink some more.

It will be much sooner that that, when we meet, I hope and pray; in the holy Land.
Then, I will say to you: I told you so!

Well given there are nearly a billion question and quite a high percentage of them from America end up with the Hollywood "Omen bug" and like to think they can read the future and are a bit like John Connor (from Terminator 2 or 3) - yeah. There WILL be some Christians that want to say "Hey - you know what - by sheer accident I was right!" I mean, there's probably a few million or so Christians that have 'figured out' by different means and schemes and crazy walls that somehow, mysteriously, the Lord isn't returning in 1000 years or so. No! Somehow it's always the next 5 or 10 or whatever years - just to spice things up a bit. So by the fact that this sheer habit persists - some Christians will be right sometime - by sheer co-incidence.

EG: If the Lord returns in 5 seconds there will probably be some Christian, somewhere that predicted this year, this month, maybe even this day! Ho hum. Me personally? I actually believe what Jesus said when he said it will be like the days of Noah - and that they didn't know!

Sadly I've seen people lose their faith when some of these don't pan out.
There's even an Australian movie about belonging to a strict end-times church and then growing up and losing one's faith when it doesn't happen.

 

[keras]

Sadly I've seen people lose their faith when some of these don't pan out.
There's even an Australian movie about belonging to a strict end-times church and then growing up and losing one's faith when it doesn't happen.

That is the epitome of foolishness!
How can they or you say: what is prophesied is wrong because it hasn't happened? There IS time for it all to take place, just as prophesied.

We are told that to identify a true Prophet, their prophesies must come to pass. There is not one of the Bible prophets, including Jesus; whose prophesies about the end of this age have been fulfilled. They will be, they must be; or our Bibles are worthless.

Oh I agree!
So why are you into it?

I take no cognizance of the ECF's or any Commentaries; interpretation of the Prophetic Word. Or of most of the weird and wonderful ideas and theories touted on this forum.

Err, no. If you're saying Hosea is unfulfilled you're saying I can't be a Christian because I'm not Jewish!

If you are a Christian, then you are a Israelite by faith, Galatians 3:26-29, & 6:14-16
Do you think the Jews are all of Israel? They, in fact are not Israel at all, they lost that appellation when they separated from the House of Israel in King Rehoboam's time.

 

[eclipsenow]

That is the epitome of foolishness!
How can they or you say: what is prophesied is wrong because it hasn't happened? There IS time for it all to take place, just as prophesied.

Are you being difficult on purpose?
I'm talking about the many hundreds of end times tables just like yours that went past their due-date. Got it?

If you are a Christian, then you are a Israelite by faith, Galatians 3:26-29, & 6:14-16
Do you think the Jews are all of Israel? They, in fact are not Israel at all, they lost that appellation when they separated from the House of Israel in King Rehoboam's time.

Yeah - nice attempt to divert the conversation but we're discussing how the Apostle Paul reads Hosea!
Romans 9
2 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he says in Hosea:
“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;
and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,

Oops - there goes your reading of Hosea.

 

[nolidad]

At hand, is a broad statement.
I believe Isaiah's prophecy will come to pass within the lifetime of those who saw the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

That would be nice, for the rapture occurs before that so we are outta here! But we will have to wait and see.

No one has 'replaced' the people who will live in Jerusalem during the final few years of this age. They will be the surviving Messianic Jews, joined by all the faithful Christians. As seen in the holy Land in; Revelation 7:1-14.

Well as in the last 3 1/2 years teh beast has called all out genocide on christinas and Jews- that is a foolish statement as He HQ's in Jerusalem then.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Yes; Jesus will Return as King of the world and will reign for a literal 1000 years.
After that, there will come a New Heavens and New Earth. Revelation 21:1-7

For sure, we must stay strong in our faith and keep the Commandments.

I don't know what I said that my point could be so misunderstood, (my bad) but let me try again.

How do the thousand generations fit in your view? And, are the church(the reason I put the verses in John) the ones who love Him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations(ie~40-50,000 years)?
If you believe God will replace the physical universe with a newly created "new heavens and earth", my question is why?

1 Chronicles:
15Remember His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded to a thousand generations,

16The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac.

Psalm 105:
8He has remembered His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded to a thousand generations,

9The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac.

Exodus 20:
5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on their children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6but showing loving devotion to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Deut 7:
8but because the LORD loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers, the LORD brought you out by a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 9“Know therefore that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments; 10but repays those who hate Him to their faces, to destroy them; He will not delay with him who hates Him, He will repay him to his face

John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.