The day of reckoning. What will replace the standard solar theory?

[Elendur]

Of course not. Why would it? The image that LM cited doesn't have the 304A wavelength in it, and his iron line image shows the same bright horizon over an opaque disk that *every* iron ion wavelength includes. The color of the horizon is ultimately *irrelevant* since it is determined by the colors assigned to the iron lines.

But they explicitly state that the color assignment is to temperature, not "iron lines"...

 

[Loudmouth]

Boloney. There are no ''processing artifacts" that are in any way relevant to the conversation or to the geometric relationships I'm describing.

And what is your evidence for this?

The transition region where the limbe goes from opaque disk, to a bright horizon above the disk can be found in *every single* iron ion image ever made of the sun's limb from *every* spacecraft that has imaged the sun.

Just so we are not confused as to what you are describing, perhaps you could zoom in on this area and have an arrow pointing to it?

I zoomed in and counted the pixels from the darkened limb to the base of the orange chromosphere from all around the disk and I averaged them.

The base of the orange chromosphere is on the surface of the opaque disk. The distance is zero.

 

[Loudmouth]

Nobody doubts that!

So you agree that the green lines you are pointing to are over 1 million degrees, correct? I just want to make sure that we agree on this point.

 

[Loudmouth]

GM didn't contact anyone at NASA, nor quote anyone at NASA. He claimed the green color was related to a misalignment of the RGB images! Nobody at NASA told him that!

What is your evidence for this?

 

[Michael]

And what is your evidence for this?

It's in the image along with every other SDO image.

Just so we are not confused as to what you are describing, perhaps you could zoom in on this area and have an arrow pointing to it?

Oh for goodness sake. The chromosphere is the orange *band* that is located all around the outside of the transition region. I suppose I'll mark up one of the images for you after work if can't find it.

The base of the orange chromosphere is on the surface of the opaque disk. The distance is zero.

False. There's a 4800KM gap from the base (inside smooth edge) of the orange chromosphere to the limb darkened disk. It doesn't matter where on the image you count pixels either. It's consistent around the entire disk. There's only one small area along the right side of the image that is too bright to actually count pixels. The rest of the disk provides consistent numbers.

 

[Michael]

So you agree that the green lines you are pointing to are over 1 million degrees, correct? I just want to make sure that we agree on this point.

Yes. All electromagnetic flux ropes are that are seen in iron ion images are radiating at a million plus degrees. The difference between the models is that flux ropes start at the *cathode surface* in a Birkeland model and traverse *all* the atmospheric layers, whereas supposedly the loops only become visible in iron ion images about 1200KM *above* the base of the chromosphere in standard theory. Had the standard model been correct, that "green" horizon line would be located in the orange band of the chromosphere, not *underneath of it*!

 

[Loudmouth]

It's in the image along with every other SDO image.

I am not seeing it. Perhaps you could illustrate it for us?

The chromosphere is the orange *band* that is located all around the outside of the transition region.

Yes, and directly against it is the opaque disk. That is why there is a sharp line between the opaque disk and the orange band.

False. There's a 4800KM gap from the base of the orange chromosphere to the limb darkened disk.

No, it is resting right on top of it. It goes from black to orange in a single pixel.

 

[Loudmouth]

Yes. All electromagnetic flux ropes are that are seen in iron ion images are radiating at a million plus degrees.

I was under the impression that you were assigning them to different temperatures in other posts, so I am glad we cleared up my misunderstanding.

Had the standard model been correct, that "green" horizon line would be located in the orange band of the chromosphere, not *underneath of it*!

How did you determine that it is underneath it?

 

[Michael]

What is your evidence for this?

What is your evidence that GM actually talked to anyone at NASA? Who *exactly* (by name) did GM talk to at NASA? What was their *exact* quote about the image?

GM didn't talk to anyone at NASA, or name anyone at NASA, or even actually QUOTE anyone at NASA. He spewed his own words and attributed it to NASA.

 

[Loudmouth]

What is your evidence that GM actually talked to anyone at NASA?

You are claiming that he didn't. Where is your evidence?

 

[Michael]

I am not seeing it. Perhaps you could illustrate it for us?

Which part?

Yes, and directly against it is the opaque disk. That is why there is a sharp line between the opaque disk and the orange band.

There is no "sharp line" along the limb darkened disk. In fact it's quite "messy" with all sorts of flotsum and jetsum visible in the atmosphere. The only 'sharp" line is the line along the base of the chromosphere where they subtracted/chopped out the photosphere. There's a 4800km gap between the inside smooth surface of the chromosphere/photosphere boundary and the opaque disk in the iron lines.

No, it is resting right on top of it. It goes from black to orange in a single pixel.

That orange to dark transition along the bottom of the chromosphere that you're talking about is the area where they simply subtracted/chopped out the photosphere from a standard 304A image of the sun, leaving only the *outside ring* of the chromosphere. That transition of color at the base of the orange band has nothing to do with the *DISTANCE* between that location and the opaque limb darkened surface seen in the iron lines that sits 4800KM *under* that point.

 

[Michael]

You are claiming that he didn't. Where is your evidence?

You are claiming he did! Where is your evidence? Where's an actual name? Where's an actual quote from someone at NASA? How do you know that GM didn't just lie through his teeth?

The evidence that he did *NOT* talk to anyone at NASA is the fact he *did not* name any names, he did *not* quote anyone directly, and he simply parroted *himself*! No names, no quotes, just GM spewing GM nonsense. The green region is *not* an artifact, it's simply a color assigned to a iron ion wavelength.

 

[Loudmouth]

You are claiming he did! Where is your evidence?

Since we don't know if he did or not then perhaps you should contact NASA and see what they say. Why haven't you done this? Why not clear it all up?

 

[Loudmouth]

Which part?

There is no "sharp line" along the limb darkened disk.

Then we must be looking at different images.

In fact it's quite "messy" with all sorts of flotsum and jetsum visible in the atmosphere.

Yes, in the atmosphere above the surface, but not within the opaque disk. This is made even more obvious by the two green splotches towards the top of the image on either side.

Need we go back to the steaming head again?

 

[Michael]

Since we don't know if he did or not

I know for a fact that that GM did not contact NASA and get *that* answer. GM's claim was pure nonsense in terms of the cause of the color green on the horizon, so I know for a fact that NASA had nothing to do with that explanation. The color green is directly related to the color assignments given to the ion lines, it is absolutely, positively not caused by the application of a "gradient filter", nor any misalignment of the images.

GM was convinced that the green color was related to a misalignment of the RGB images, and that's simply *wrong*. The fact he attributed the same error to NASA demonstrates conclusively that he never talked to anyone at NASA.

 

[Michael]

Who did GM talk to specifically? What was their *exact quote*? If you can't answer those two very simple questions, then you have no evidence at all that he talked to anyone but himself.

 

[Michael]

Then we must be looking at different images.

Apparently so. The limb darkening seen in the iron ion lines doesn't occur at the rounded base of the bottom of the chromosphere. It occurs 4800KM *inside* that rounded photosphere/chromosphere boundary. The opaque disk in the iron lines is actually a bit 'jagged'. It's definitely not 'smooth' like the the inside edge of the chromosphere where they subtracted out the photosphere.

Yes, in the atmosphere above the surface, but not within the opaque disk.

The atmosphere above the actual solid surface of the sun, yes, but not the photosphere.

This is made even more obvious by the two green splotches towards the top of the image on either side.

Need we go back to the steaming head again?

Why? I'm talking about the *limb* of the sun, right next to the chromosphere in 304A, whereas you keep ignoring the limb entirely and you keep pointing at the center of the disk! The *horizon* of the disk contains the important geometric features I'm interested in, not the *inside of the disk*!

 

[Michael]

But they explicitly state that the color assignment is to temperature, not "iron lines"...

Datasets | Science On a Sphere

There are two STEREO/SDO datasets for Science On a Sphere, both from the extreme ultraviolet wavelength, which the human eye cannot see directly. In order to keep all of the various wavelengths straight, scientists color the different wavelengths. The 195A wavelength is arbitrarily colored green, while orange was selected for the 304A wavelength. The 195A wavelength is able to detect ionized iron at about 1.5 million degrees C and the 304 A wavelength detects ionized helium at about 60,000 degrees C.

They actually talk about both in the literature. The iron ion lines are most sensitive to iron ions that require million degree temps. The 304A wavelength is most sensitive to HeII in much lower temperature plasma.

 

[Michael]

Solar Dynamics Observatory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually the SDO WIKI site explains the various wavelengths and which ions the various wavelengths are most sensitive to picking up as well as their associated temperatures.

 

[kenvin]

This is all silly. Conspiracy from someone with no education.