That is what Paul, and Peter said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Peter 3:10-13.
Feel free to tell us what you think they said. It is easy to criticize what somebody else believes.
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The Dangerous Confusion & Delusion In Dispensationalism & Christian Zionism Doctrines
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That is what Paul, and Peter said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Peter 3:10-13.
Feel free to tell us what you think they said. It is easy to criticize what somebody else believes.
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mkgal1 said:
I'm curious as to why you interpret my clarifying questions to be criticism? I'm genuinely attempting to understand how you're going about interpreting Scripture. You've seemed to have positioned yourself as a Darby-theory destroyer/debunker......yet you're seeming to hold to one of his foundational and key inventions (the rapture).
I need to take the time to investigate more - but, from what I can tell - the interpretation of a rapture was invented by John Darby (and then advanced further by Tim LaHaye with his fictional Left Behind series).
Prior to Darby, the Church had interpreted 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 and 2 Peter 3:10-13 to be examples of figurative and symbolic language. Look at one key phrase in 2 Thessalonians 1:7:
"And to you who are troubled rest with us". What do you make of that phrase? Because I believe that was addressing the first century followers of Jesus that were experiencing the effects of this:
Luke 21:24 ~ They will be killed by the sword or sent away as captives to all the nations of the world. And Jerusalem will be trampled down by the Gentiles until the period of the Gentiles comes to an end.
We've discussed this in another thread - but since it's not been mentioned in this thread, I'll repeat it:
Beginning of the "times of the Gentiles" from Olivet discourse =
Luke 21:20 ~ But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near.
Quoting Ray Vander Laan: The Zealots, an ultra-nationalistic group, proclaimed revolution to be God's solution (Acts 5:37). The Essenes withdrew, waiting anxiously for the Messiah to lead a violent overthrow of the Romans and their Jewish supporters. The Sadducees apparently practiced a form of cooperation since it was Rome who kept them securely in their position over the Temple and therefore over the people (John 11:49-50). The Herodions appeared satisfied with the Herod dynasty (Matt. 22:16). The Pharisees, condemning Rome's pagan excesses, were removed from politics and viewed the foreign oppressors as God's hand punishing his people for their unfaithfulness to the Torah. The country was in turmoil, each faction longing in a different way for the freedom they desired. To this climate of confusion, hatred, and division, many so-called messiahs came, each preaching his own brand of salvation (Acts 21:38). Jesus presented his unique message of redemption. Some followed his lead, but many did not. During feast days, especially Passover, tensions reached fever pitch and the Romans increased their military presence to prevent open revolt. The climate existed, however, for revolution to begin.
THE END OF THE REVOLT The Antonia fortress fell in mid-July. On August 6, the sacrifices ceased in the Temple. The Temple itself was burned and destroyed on the ninth of the Jewish month of Ab (the end of August), the same day it had been destroyed by the Babylonians more than 600 years before. It has never been rebuilt. ~ https://www.thattheworldmayknow.com/the-jewish-revolts
Like Jesus had predicted:
Luke 21:20-24 ~ “And when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then you will know that the time of its destruction has arrived. Then those in Judea must flee to the hills. Those in Jerusalem must get out, and those out in the country should not return to the city. For those will be days of God’s vengeance, and the prophetic words of the Scriptures will be fulfilled. How terrible it will be for pregnant women and for nursing mothers in those days. For there will be disaster in the land and great anger against this people. They will be killed by the sword or sent away as captives to all the nations of the world. And Jerusalem will be trampled down by the Gentiles until the period of the Gentiles comes to an end.
The trampling came to an end in 70 A.D.
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The Old Baptist John Gill lived from 1697-1771.
His commentary is found below.
The idea of an audible, and visible, return of Jesus Christ to planet earth did not come from John Darby.
However, Darby was the greatest salesman for the pretrib version of the event.
2 Thessalonians 1:7
And to you who are troubled, rest with us,.... This is another branch of the justice of God, in rendering to them who are afflicted and persecuted for righteousness sake, "rest"; a relaxation or rest from persecutions, for a while at least; as the churches of Judea, Galilee, and Samaria had, from that persecution raised at the death of Stephen, Act_9:31 and as the Christians had at the destruction of Jerusalem; which though it was a day of vengeance to the unbelieving Jews, were times of refreshing to the saints, who were now delivered from their persecutors: or rather this designs a rest which remains for the saints after death in the grave, and at the coming of the Lord, and to all eternity; when they shall rest from all their toil and labour, and be freed from sin, and all disquietude by it, and from the temptations of Satan, and likewise from the persecutions of men; see Job_3:17. And this will be enjoyed in company with the apostles, and other believers; and as it is some alleviation to the sufferings and afflictions of saints now, that the same are accomplished in others, so it will enhance the heavenly glory, rest, and felicity, that they will be partners and sharers in it with the apostles of Christ Jesus, and have the same crown of glory they have; and indeed their company and conversation will be a part of their happiness.
When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven; then will the justice of God take place in both the above branches and instances of it, rendering tribulation to persecutors, and rest to the persecuted. Christ, ever since a cloud received him out of the sight of the apostles up to heaven, has been, as it were, hid, and has not been seen with corporeal eyes by men on earth ever since, but by a very few, as Stephen, and the Apostle Paul; he has only been seen by an eye of faith; at his second coming there will be a revelation of him, and every eye shall see him: and this revelation of him will be "from heaven": thither he was received at his ascension, and there he now is; and here he is received, and will be retained until the end of all things; and from hence the saints expect him, and from hence will he descend in person, and then he will be revealed, and appear to the view of everyone: and that
with his mighty angels; which will add to the glory, majesty, and solemnity of that appearance: these are called his angels, because he is the Creator of them, and the object of their worship and adoration, and he is the Lord and head of them, and they are ministering spirits to him and his; and "mighty" angels, because they excel all other creatures in strength; a remarkable instance of the might and strength of angels is in 2Ki_19:35. The words from the original text may be rendered, "with the angels of his power"; as they are by the Vulgate Latin, Arabic, and Ethiopic versions, for they will be the ministers of the power of Christ in gathering the elect from the four winds, and all nations, before Christ; and in taking out of his kingdom all that offend, and do iniquity; and in severing the righteous from the wicked; and in casting the latter into the furnace of fire. The Syriac version reads the words, "with the power of his angels".
2 Thessalonians 1:8
In flaming fire,.... Which may either refer to Christ, who will be revealed from heaven in such a manner; and whose coming will be as the lightning, not only sudden, but glorious, illustrious, and visible; he will be seen and easily discerned; there will be such a light and flaming fire about him, which, as it will serve to make him visible, will greatly add to the majesty of his appearance, and strike terror to his enemies, and burn them up round about; see Dan_7:7 or else it may refer to the angels, who shall descend in fiery forms, which is agreeably to their nature, Psa_104:4 and so they appeared in the forms of horses of fire, and chariots of fire, when Elijah was carried up to heaven. And it is a tradition of the Jews (z), that the angel Gabriel descended בשלהובא דאשא, "in a flame of fire", to burn Moses, as he was in the inn, when upon his journey from Midian to Egypt: or this clause may be read in construction with the following, as it is in the Vulgate Latin and Syriac versions, "in flaming fire taking vengeance"; and so expresses the manner in which vengeance will be taken on the wicked by Christ, the Judge of all, to whom it belongs: and the punishment of ungodly men is often signified by fire, and flames of fire, by the fire of hell, and a lake which burns with fire and brimstone, by a furnace of fire, everlasting fire, and fire that cannot be quenched, to set forth the endless torture and inconceivable misery of the damned; and it may be, some regard is had to the general conflagration, which will be at the coming of Christ, when the heavens, being on fire, shall be dissolved, the elements shall melt with fervent heat, and the earth, and all that is in it, shall be burnt up, when the bodies of the wicked, then living, will be consumed in flames of fire, and their souls feel the wrath of the Almighty. The persons who will then be punished, and on whom vengeance will be taken, are described as follows,
on them that know not God; which is a periphrasis, or common character of the Gentiles, 1Th_4:5 who know not the one, true, and living God; or know him not so as to glorify him as God, and be thankful to him for the mercies they receive from him, and still less know him in Christ Jesus; which ignorance of theirs is not without sin, nor will it excuse from punishment; for though vengeance will not be taken on them, because they have not a spiritual saving knowledge of God, in the Mediator Jesus Christ, who never was revealed to them; yet forasmuch as they had the light and law of nature, by which the being of God, and the invisible perfections of his nature might be seen and understood, and much of his will, with respect to moral good and evil, be known, against both which they have rebelled, and having sinned, will perish without law: though it may also include all such persons, who having been favoured with an external revelation, have professed to know God, and yet in works have denied him:
and that obey not the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ; of which Christ is the author, was the preacher, and is the sum and substance; which is good news and glad tidings of the grace of, God, of peace, pardon, righteousness, life, and salvation by Christ; which may be said to be obeyed, when it is received and embraced by faith, with and from the heart, and confession is made of it with the mouth, and the ordinances of it are submitted to; and which is called the obedience of faith, because faith without obedience is not right, and obedience without faith is of no avail: but all that hear the Gospel do not obey it; there are some that disbelieve and reject the doctrines and ordinances of it, and others that, do profess it, and do not yield a cordial and cheerful obedience to it; both may be reckoned among the disobeyers of it: and though the unbelieving Jews may be chiefly designed here, yet deists of every age and place, where the Gospel revelation has come, and carnal professors, and profane despisers everywhere, may be included; whose condemnation will be aggravated by the external light which has shone around them, and they have hated; the severest punishment will be inflicted on them; it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon, Sodom and Gomorrah, than for such persons; see 1Pe_4:17.
(z) Zohar in Gen. fol. 63. 2.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction,.... With destruction both of soul and body, though not with the annihilation of either; their gnawing worm of conscience will never die, and the fire of divine wrath will never be quenched; the smoke of their torment will ascend for ever. Sin being committed against an infinite and eternal Being, will be infinite in its duration; nor will it cease to be in the persons punished, who will not be in the least reformed or purged from sin by punishment; which will make the continuance of it just and necessary. And these will be driven
from the presence of the Lord; as the former clause may express the punishment of sense the wicked will feel in their own breasts, this may intend the punishment of loss; or what they will be deprived of, the presence of the Lord, in which the happiness of angels, and of glorified saints lies; and may also signify how sudden and terrible their destruction will be. As soon as the Lord appears, they will perish at his presence like wax before the fire; and so awful will be his appearance, they will flee from it with the utmost terror, and call to the rocks and mountains to hide them from the face of the Lord, and to screen them from his wrath:
and from the glory of his power; or his glorious power, in which he shall come, and which will be exerted, and shown in raising the dead, and gathering all nations before him, in passing sentence on them, and in executing it. For he has power, as to save, so to destroy, as to glorify the bodies and souls of his saints, so to destroy the wicked, both body and soul, in hell; and the glory of his power will be seen in the one, as well as in the other. And now it will be, that tribulation will be rendered to the troublers of the Lord's people.
2 Thessalonians 1:10
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints,.... Or by them who are set apart for holiness and happiness by God the Father; whose sins are expiated by the blood and sacrifice of Christ; to whom he is made sanctification; and who are sanctified by the Spirit and grace of God; and in whom Christ has a peculiar interest, through his Father's gift, his own purchase, and the power of his grace: and when he comes a second time he will be glorified in these persons; he will appear glorious to them; he will come in his own glory both as God and man; and in his Father's glory, authority, and majesty, conferred on him as the Judge of the whole earth; and with the glory of his angels, who will accompany him. And he will also bestow a glory on them; their souls will be endowed with perfect knowledge and holiness; and their bodies will be made like to his glorious body; and both will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father; and this glory on the members of Christ will redound to the glory of him their head. And as he will then, in the most full and clear manner, display the glory of his person and perfections, of his wisdom, power, faithfulness, and goodness, set off the glory of his offices, and, the administration of them, and open the riches both of his grace and glory to them; so they will, in return, ascribe honour, praise, and glory, to him, and give him the glory of their salvation to all eternity:
and to be admired in all them that believe; who are the same with the saints; these are convertible terms; for no man can be a saint, unless he is a believer in Christ, let him make what pretensions to holiness he will: and no man can be a true believer in Christ, unless he is a saint; for true faith works by love, and in a way of holiness; and in those, or by those that are sanctified by faith in him, will he be admired when he appears a second time. He is admired by them now; he is with them the chiefest among ten thousands, and altogether lovely: they wonder at the glory and beauty of his person, and the fulness of his grace; and are amazed that such as they are should be admitted to communion with him; and how much more will they wonder, when they shall see him as he is? and he will be admired by others on the account of them, when they shall see those that they have despised, and persecuted, and accounted as the filth of the world, and the offscouring of all things, received into the arms of Jesus with all the expressions of tenderness and love; placed at his right hand, and set down with him on his throne, clothed with white robes, and crowns on their head, and palms in their hands: and he himself will be admired with them, when they shall see him whom they took to be a mere man, and who was a man of sorrows, and acquainted with griefs, and was loaded with reproach and ignominy, and at last suffered a shameful death, coming in the clouds of heaven in power and great glory as the Judge of quick and dead; thus will he be admired by them, in them, and with them.
(Because our testimony among you was believed) in that day; the phrase, "in that day", belongs to all that goes before, as that Christ shall take vengeance on wicked men, and they shall be punished by him, and he shall be glorified and admired in and by his people in that day, when he shall be revealed from heaven, and come to judge both quick and dead. Though some versions read it in construction with the clause immediately preceding, "because our testimony among you was believed in that day"; or concerning that day; that is, you gave credit to the testimony we bore, when among you, concerning this illustrious day of the Lord; or our testimony, the ministry of the word by us, in which we bore a testimony to the person and grace of Christ, to his first, and to his second coming, was received and embraced by you with a view to this day, and to the enjoyment of the glory of it. The Arabic version renders it, "for our testimony will be true in that day"; that is, it will appear to be so, everything we have said will be accomplished then. The Syriac version is very remote, "that our testimony concerning you may be believed in that day": but it is best to read this clause in a parenthesis, as in our version; which is an application of what is said to the Thessalonians, who might conclude, that since they had embraced the testimony of the Lord Jesus, borne unto him by his apostles, they would be found among the number of the saints and believers, in whom Christ would be glorified and admired; the consideration of which might animate and encourage them to endure afflictions and persecutions with patience, and to hold out to the end, and at last enjoy the heavenly glory, for which the apostle next prays.
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mkgal said:
???
That doesn't answer my question. You obviously disagree with Darby (and refer to his theology with contempt) but you have bought into one of his (and others) trademark doctrines - the rapture.
A Bible translation that you seem to hold in high regard appears to have commentary that disagrees with your believed doctrine of a rapture and the coming of the Son of Man (that Jesus mentioned - referring to the prophecy of Daniel - recorded in Matthew 24).
Quoting from the Geneva Study Bible:
24:15 4 When ye therefore shall see the f abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand ).
(4) The kingdom of Christ will not be abolished when the city of Jerusalem is utterly destroyed, but will be stretched out even to the end of the world.
(f) The abomination of desolation, that is to say, the one who all men detest and cannot abide, because of the foul and shameful filthiness of it: and he speaks of the idols that were set up in the temple, or as others think, he meant the marring of the doctrine in the Church.
24:30 And then shall appear the n sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the o tribes of the earth p mourn, and they shall see the Son of man q coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(n) The exceeding glory and majesty, which will bear witness that Christ the Lord of heaven and earth draws near to judge the world.
(o) All nations, and he alludes to the dispersion which we read of in ( Genesis 10-11 ), or to the dividing of the people of Israel.
(p) They will be in such sorrow, that they will strike themselves: and it is transferred to the mourning.
(q) Sitting upon the clouds, as he was taken up into heaven. ~
Matthew 24 Commentary - Geneva Study Bible
24:15 4 When ye therefore shall see the f abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand ).
(4) The kingdom of Christ will not be abolished when the city of Jerusalem is utterly destroyed, but will be stretched out even to the end of the world.
(f) The abomination of desolation, that is to say, the one who all men detest and cannot abide, because of the foul and shameful filthiness of it: and he speaks of the idols that were set up in the temple, or as others think, he meant the marring of the doctrine in the Church.
24:30 And then shall appear the n sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the o tribes of the earth p mourn, and they shall see the Son of man q coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(n) The exceeding glory and majesty, which will bear witness that Christ the Lord of heaven and earth draws near to judge the world.
(o) All nations, and he alludes to the dispersion which we read of in ( Genesis 10-11 ), or to the dividing of the people of Israel.
(p) They will be in such sorrow, that they will strike themselves: and it is transferred to the mourning.
(q) Sitting upon the clouds, as he was taken up into heaven. ~
Matthew 24 Commentary - Geneva Study Bible
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Because Dispensationalism teaches that the church will be caught up to heaven before the great tribulation (even as ancient teachers said,) and that, after that time, the Jews will be converted (even as these same ancient teachers said,) you pretend that we teach that "modern Jews will come to salvation outside of the church." But your dishonesty in this pretension has already been exposed, and repeatedly exposed, in this forum.
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Yeah, the future rapture is a biggy with Dispensationalist Futurist..........
Interesting that the air they meet the Lord in, is where the 7th Messenger pours His bowl of wrath on 70Ad Jerusalem.....
How do Preterists refute this?
1 Thessalonians 4:
16 That Himself, the Lord, in a calling-forth in voice of Arch Angel and in trumpet of God, shall be descending<2597> from heaven, and the dead-ones/nekroi <3498> in Christ shall be resurrecting/anasthsontai <450> first,
17 Thereupon we the living-ones, the ones remaining, same-time together to them shall be being caught away/arpaghsomeqa <726> (5691) in clouds to meeting of the Lord in air/aera <109>, and thus always together to Lord we shall be;
========
Reve 16:17 the seventh Messenger pours out His bowl/vial into the AIR....
Revelation 16:17
and the seventh Messenger pours out His bowl/vial into the air<109>
and came out great Voice from the Sanctuary of the heaven from the Throne saying "it has become!"<1096> [Revelation 21:6]
=======================================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted
Rapture Refuted! Pre-tribulation Rapture and Premillennialism Refuted Home page
Introduction:
1. Rapture doctrine is widely believed today, but it did not exist before it "popped" into John Darby's head in 1830 AD. If you believe in the Rapture, you probably wrongly assumed it was a historic Bible doctrine, when in fact it was born in the era of the cults (1830-1880 AD).
2. Rapture doctrine is one of the most recent "new doctrines" in the history of the Church. The only doctrine more recent is the invention of the sinner's prayer for salvation by Billy Sunday in 1930, which was made popular by Billy Graham in 1935.
3. Rapture promoters usually claim to have inspiration, are prophets, apostles, "the Elijah", have special illumination from the Holy Spirit and that God has revealed new doctrines not previously known by anyone, including the apostle Paul himself. They believe in
4. There are two types of false teachers who promote Rapture: "Date setters" like Camping whose DATE is not the rapture but their own self-extinction on the world religious stage... if they are honest. "Date Teasers" like Jack Van Impe are cowards who promote the end as being VERY VERY soon, but never specific, in order to keep the hundreds of millions of dollars flowing.
5. Christians reject the rapture and rely upon the pages of the Bible alone as a sole source of conduct and doctrine. . Find a church that exposes the Rapture as a heresy in your own home town.
6. See also: What will happen at the End of The World?
7. See also: Will There Be A Rapture?
8. See also: Who is the Anti-Christ???
9. See also: All the dead will be raised at same moment, not 1000 apart.
================================
Will There Be A Rapture?
It is common today to see bumper stickers with slogans such as: "In case of Rapture this car will be unoccupied." The term Rapture stands for the so-called coming of a millennial reign of Christ on earth. The word Rapture comes from the Latin, RAPARE, which means to "take away" or "snatch out." theory that is directly associated with It is taught by many who endorse this theory that Christ at his second coming will silently remove from this world the righteous - and this just before a terrible tribulation shall take place on the earth. This alarmist doctrine portrays quite a drama. Families will be shocked by the strange disappearance of a mother, father, or child. Driverless cars will collide in streets. A man and wife are in bed; she hears a noise, turns her head, and he is gone. Planes crash with no pilots found. The theorist continues by stating that the tribulation on earth will last for seven years during which time the Lord will pour out His wrath upon all those who have rejected Him. At the end of the tribulation, they say, the Lord will return to the earth with ten thousand of His saints and a great battle will be fought. They add that Christ and His army will be victorious and will then execute judgement upon the ungodly. Then, according to the theory, the Lord will usher in His Kingdom, an earthly reign of Christ on earth which shall last for 1,000 years.
The conclusion of this suggested millennium will pose another great battle. This is supposed to involve a last-ditch effort of evil against good - to no avail, of course. Then they affirm that a second resurrection will-take place; and all who remain from the time of Adam will be raised and shall receive their just desserts. Let us see what the Bible says regarding the truth of our Lord's return. (We do invite you to write down the following references.)
First, the word Rapture is not even to be found in the Bible; Nor is the doctrine taught there.
Secondly, the Lord's return will not be. secretive or silent. Revelation 1:7 states that, "every eye shall see him', 1 Thessalonians 4:16, says that His coming will be heralded with, "a shout'. with the voice of the Archangel, and with the trump of God".
Thirdly, the "tribulation" often referred to is based upon an erroneous interpretation of Matthew 24. This "tribulation' was associated with the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 according to the first question the Lord answered in Matthew 24:1-3. That "tribulation" did in fact come before that generation passed, Matthew 24:34.
Fourthly, according to the Bible there is but one resurrection and that will include both the good and evil., John 5:28-29, states, "all that are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth".
Fifthly, based upon the Bible, Christ's Kingdom is not future. It has already been in existence for nearly 2000 years and it is a spiritual kingdom, not an earthly one. Jesus stated it in John 18:336 "My kingdom is not of this world." Christ promised Peter in Matthew 16:18-19-that he could open the doors of the kingdom, and this the apostle exercised in Acts 2:38-47. John, the apostle, stated in Revelation 1:9 that he was "in the Kingdom". Now all of these books were written in the First Century and the kingdom was spoken of as existing then. Mark 9:1 is a passage that definitely puts the beginning of the kingdom in that generation.
Lastly, the idea of a thousand year reign of Christ on earth is a gross distortion of Revelation 20:1-7. This is a highly figurative context within a very symbolic book. The reign viewed in Revelation 20 is not an "earthly" reign of the Lord at all. It is a spiritual reign with victorious saints (Revelation 20:4). In Revelation 6:9-11 these martyred souls were, "underneath the altar", crying for vindication; in Chapter 20, however, they were on, "thrones reigning with their Lord." This was a prophetic indication that Christianity would be triumphant over its enemies. The 1,000 years is likely a symbol of the completeness of that victory. The number 1,000 is used more than 20 times in the book of Revelation, but not in a literal sense. The whole concept of the so-called Rapture contradicts scores of Bible passages of the clearest import.[/quote]
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@BABerean2 you'd cut off my question and not responded to it. Would you address this, please?
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Hello mkgal.
While you are waiting on BAB to answer, could you give your thoughts and vote on this Sanctuary and Court shown in Revelation 11? Thanks.......
What about Revelation 11:1-2 SANCTUARY, COURT AND HOLY CITY
Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of God and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833>[Priests/Lavar/Altar of Sacrifice] outside of the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side<1854> and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Gentiles/Nations.
And the holy City they shall be treading<3961> forty two months.
Which Sanctuary and Court are being measured in Revelation 11
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No.
Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
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[/quote]BABerean2 said: ↑
That is what Paul, and Peter said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Peter 3:10-13.[/quote]
Yep.....How do futurists interpret the word "gehenna"?
Matthew 23:33 "Serpents! offspring<1081> of vipers!
how? ye may be fleeing from the judging<2920> of the Gehenna<1067>
"WHERE THE BODY is, there the EAGLES be gathered" Matt 24 Luke 17-- and Revelation
Matthew 24:28
for wherever the corpse<4430> may be, there shall the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together<4863>. [Revelation 17:19 70ad Jerusalem/Judea]
Luke 17:37
And they answering say to him, 'Where, sir?'
and He saith to them, 'Where the body<4983> is, there will the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together<1996>.' [Revelation 18:13 70ad Jerusalem/Judea]
==============================
Revelation 18:13
“and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies<4983> and souls of men.
Revelation 19
17 And I saw one messenger standing in the sun, and he cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven, "hither! be ye being gathered!<4863> into the Supper of the Great God.
18 That ye may be eating fleshes of kings......
================================
Isa 66:24
“And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted
Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places, and innumerable multitudes who were swept away by famine, and pestilence, and of which no calculation could be made.
Mar 9:44 “where ‘Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'
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