The Danger of "Keeping Sabbath."

[BobRyan]

If we judge that the Israelites never really kept the Sabbath, are we not tacitly claiming that we do and we know how it is to be kept properly? Obeying God the best we can out of love is a good thing, but is the sabbath one of the weightier matters of the law? Is the Ten Commandments God's law in toto?

Deut 6:22 God "spoke these ten words - and added no more"

Eph 6:1-2 'honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" (Which is only true in that "unit of TEN". IT is not the first commandment with a promise in the Torah, in Genesis, in Exodus etc.

I don't argue for "just the TEN" - but the Bible does make the case that the TEN are pretty high up there.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Deut 6:22 God "spoke these ten words - and added no more"

Eph 6:1-2 'honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" (Which is only true in that "unit of TEN". IT is not the first commandment with a promise in the Torah, in Genesis, in Exodus etc.

I don't argue for "just the TEN" - but the Bible does make the case that the TEN are pretty high up there.

The issue is not the Ten Commandments; it is how people choose to "keep" them and whether or not they think that they earn favor with God for doing so. Those who walk humbly after God know that they do not keep them perfectly, but they also know that that is not an issue with their Father, who helps them along when they stumble and cleans up all the boo-boos with the blood of Christ.

Christ's one sacrifice made us perfect forever, so our ability to keep the Ten Commandments perfectly is moot. Christ showed that the way humans keep the Ten Commandments is really shallow when he preached The Sermon on the Mount. In the end, nothing can add to Christ's perfection, and May we all be found in that when He comes or when we die.

 

[Mercy Shown]

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus "
1 John 5:4 "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments"

Question: How much of the Bible is dedicated to "The dangers of keeping God's Commandments"?

Answer: zero.

I guess it is a good thing we have this thread then - (among the many others that warn us against keeping God's Commandments).

Point 1: You did not consider the quotation marks in the title. I put them there purposefully. 2nd point: You did not quote me properly. By cutting off important contextual material you posted and then responded to a concept I never intended to convey.

The full quote reads:
"The issue is not the sabbath but obedience to our Father and Christ. Human nature is prone to idol worship, and once it assumes it has found a way to climb to heaven, it can easily slip into idol worship unless our desire to obey is divinely planted in us and our love for our Father and Our big Brother, Christ, is burning in us and motivating us, commandment-keeping, in general, is an empty, pointless exercise in a vain attempt to scale the wall of the sheepfold. "

The Pharisees were big on commandment keeping but succumbed to the dangers I mentioned. When sabbath keeping is the focus or commandment keeping in general, it can become our savior. When that happens, we desperately need a new savior. In general, when you come to most forums' law and Sabbath sections, there is very little about Christ but much about law. Can the law save you? Many Sabbath Keepers wear their Sabbath Keeping like a thorny crown. "Sabbath Keepers and Law Keepers" are often the most in need of Grace.

 

[Mercy Shown]

There is no end of fault that can be found with the pharisees, but the long and short of it is, they had not entered into the covenant, had they, Jesus's blood would have covered them.

I can accept that it is difficult for you to imagine Paul as a deceiver, so long as you have given consideration to the matter.

I am sorry, but it is Paul-deniers who stand deeply deceived.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Why do you want to know?

Do you not know what you did to have favor with God?

 

[sparow]

I am sorry, but it is Paul-deniers who stand deeply deceived.

The apostle John tells us all are deceived. Being deceived is only fatal if it causes one to sin, otherwise it can be a blessing in that overcoming brings rewards. Things that could cause one to lose one's salvation, are giving an enemy credit when the credit is due to God or Christ, worshiping a man instead of Jesus, denying the Law of God, for starters.

 

[sparow]

Do you not know what you did to have favor with God?

I was known to God before I was born, and called before I took an interest.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Were you then saved before you were born?

 

[Mercy Shown]

The apostle John tells us all are deceived. Being deceived is only fatal if it causes one to sin, otherwise it can be a blessing in that overcoming brings rewards. Things that could cause one to lose one's salvation, are giving an enemy credit when the credit is due to God or Christ, worshiping a man instead of Jesus, denying the Law of God, for starters.

You deeply misunderstand Grace. Grace preserves the law while justifying us.

 

[sparow]

You deeply misunderstand Grace. Grace preserves the law while justifying us.

This statement seems to be googly-gook. I the English language, grace is an attribute, what you seem to be presenting is a false doctrine.

In English grace means pleasing, agreeable, refinement, elegant. In the OT the KJV translators rendered 37 times, 36 times the Hebrew word (according to Strong) means to favor, grant favor, mercy, have pity, kindness, pleasant, precious, one time another Hebrew word rendered grace, means earnest request, favor, grace. The Greek word that is rendered grace means, Joyful greeting, gratifying, gift, joy, pleasure, divine influence on the heart.

I do believe you are presenting a false teaching.

 

[sparow]

Were you then saved before you were born?

My salvation, or the certainty of it, is a hope. I believe everyone born since Christ has lived before and is born again, literally, for the purpose of judgement.

 

[CoreyD]

That is a good question. I have wondered that myself. I mean, no offense, but why is your screen name not Commandment-keeping blessings? Perhaps there is an answer in that.

God told the children of Israel how to keep the Sabbath, but if you use the internet on the Sabbath, are you not buying? Do you use electricity on Sabbath? Again, you are buying. Just how to keep the Sabbath can quickly lead to a works posture, and yet how are we to define "Keep" in the command? Is it a free-for-all modern-day truth where each individual must keep it the way they feel is true?

Again, a sabbath day humbly kept the best we can to the Lord will be a blessing to us, but that doesn't mean there aren't dangers in hyperfocusing on 1/10th of the commands.

Certainly, there are Christians who would fall into this category, but we shouldn't assume that all Christians who do not keep the Sabbath the way we feel they should are in this category. I would also advise that those who look to God and decide to disobey what He has asked them to obey have much greater issues with God than the Sabbath.

These are good points.

If one believes that Exodus 20:8-11 is God's direct command for them today, then why would one make excuses for disregarding God's direct command in Exodus 35:2?

This is an excellent point.

 

[HIM]

These are good points.


This is an excellent point.

Only if supporting and trying to establish untruth

 

[Mercy Shown]

My salvation, or the certainty of it, is a hope. I believe everyone born since Christ has lived before and is born again, literally, for the purpose of judgement.

How do you get that from the written word?

 

[Mercy Shown]

This statement seems to be googly-gook.

For the [a]message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1Cor 1:18

 

[sparow]

For the [a]message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1Cor 1:18

<<This statement seems to be googly-gook. I the English language, grace is an attribute, what you seem to be presenting is a false doctrine.>>

<<For the [a]message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1Cor 1:18 >>

That is what Paul said, another stray preacher may well have said, “For the false preaching of the cross is not foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is not the power of God”.

What has the false teaching of grace got to do with the crucifixion of Christ?

While the crucifixion method was probably Satan's choice, on the cross the old covenant is confirmed and also the renewed covenant, the covenants most abrogate not realizing they also abrogate the God of Israel at the same time.

Ps 69:21 They gave him vinegar to drink.
Ps 22:18 They divided his garments among them.
Isa 53:12 Numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Ps 22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn.
Ps 22:8
Ps 22:1 Why have you forsaken me.

It would be more use to mourn Christ than to get drunk on grace.

The following is interesting in that it does not refer to Paul.

What is the meaning of the cross? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Mercy Shown]

<<This statement seems to be googly-gook. I the English language, grace is an attribute, what you seem to be presenting is a false doctrine.>>

<<For the [a]message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1Cor 1:18 >>

That is what Paul said, another stray preacher may well have said, “For the false preaching of the cross is not foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is not the power of God”.

What has the false teaching of grace got to do with the crucifixion of Christ?

While the crucifixion method was probably Satan's choice, on the cross the old covenant is confirmed and also the renewed covenant, the covenants most abrogate not realizing they also abrogate the God of Israel at the same time.

Ps 69:21 They gave him vinegar to drink.
Ps 22:18 They divided his garments among them.
Isa 53:12 Numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Ps 22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn.
Ps 22:8
Ps 22:1 Why have you forsaken me.

It would be more use to mourn Christ than to get drunk on grace.

The following is interesting in that it does not refer to Paul.

What is the meaning of the cross? | GotQuestions.org

If one rejects grace, one rejects salvation. Paul was the servant of Christ through whom God revealed the very purpose of Christ's visit to this earth.

 

[sparow]

If one rejects grace, one rejects salvation. Paul was the servant of Christ through whom God revealed the very purpose of Christ's visit to this earth.

Clearly, you and Paul have a diffrent purpose for Christ's visit than what God, the covenant and Jesus had/has

 

[Mercy Shown]

Clearly, you and Paul have a diffrent purpose for Christ's visit than what God, the covenant and Jesus had/has

I praise God that Jesus came to seek and save the lost by becoming sin for us so that we might be the righteousness of God in Him. As Isaiah said, "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. "

As Hebrews witnesses, "For by His one sacrifice, He has perfected us forever while we are still being made Holy."

 

[sparow]

I praise God that Jesus came to seek and save the lost by becoming sin for us so that we might be the righteousness of God in Him. As Isaiah said, "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. "

As Hebrews witnesses, "For by His one sacrifice, He has perfected us forever while we are still being made Holy."

I find your view very narrow, as I anticipate what you omit. God's purpose is to create the kingdom of God or possibly recreate it. The covenant is to determine who will be the kingdom of God, who would be included.

Jesus said he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel, to renew the covenant with them; today, I believe at least a third of mankind are descendants of lost sheep of Israel, but they chose to call themselves Gentile, that is strangers to God and his kingdom. The abrogate the Law and the prophets, which they need to enter into.

Jesus came to fulfil, and confirm the covenant; he fulfilled 70 odd prophesies before being cut off; I expect there are are another 70 odd to be fulfilled before the confirmation is complete.


“And the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of all of us”, all of “us” who has entered IN to the covenant.