The Danger of "Keeping Sabbath."

[Leaf473]

The 10 commandments are the 10 commandments. They define sin.

Good to know, Gary

Thanks for your input

 

[Gary K]

I can assure you that I do not reject any scripture. The reason I have a hard time conversing with you is because you jump to conclusions and tell me what I am thinking instead of asking what I am thinking.

Does it not bother you in the least to make such judgements.

Now to your mea culpa. Why are you not sinless as Jesus commands? As you say, the bible records that with God all things are possible and yet here you admitting to being “a sinful human being.”

Why have you not become a sinless human being with God? Do you believe in general that God will bring sinful human beings into sinless heaven?

If the 2nd coming happened right now, would you be welcomed home as a good a faithful servant?

The promise is found in Paul's writings.

1Corinthians 15: 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

I can assure you that I do not reject any scripture.

Really? You now believe both Matthew 1: 21 that Jesus saves us from our sins, not in our sins and that all things are possible with God.

Matthew 19: 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

That's a 180 reversal of belief.

 

[Mercy Shown]

The promise is found in Paul's writings.

1Corinthians 15: 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

So you are waiting for the final change to take place to become sinless? Until then, you will be a sinful human being. Is this correct? If so, what will qualify you for receiving this miraculous change?

Really? You now believe both Matthew 1: 21 that Jesus saves us from our sins, not in our sins and that all things are possible with God.

If you are still a sinful human being, then how have you been saved from sin? As for me, I have been perfected forever by Jesus Christ; it takes my breath away every time I read that truth in scripture. It releases the motivating power of love to drive me to Christ for His power to do what I desire most: be like my bigger brother.

I have been saved from sin and death for no other reason than He loved me. "This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins."

Matthew 19: 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

That's a 180 reversal of belief.

They did not say this about sin. They said it about the fact that the rich would have a tough time entering through the narrow way. They believed worldly riches were a reward for obedience to God, and Jesus just blew that theory to smithers, and they were gobsmacked.

 

[Gary K]

So you are waiting for the final change to take place to become sinless? Until then, you will be a sinful human being. Is this correct? If so, what will qualify you for receiving this miraculous change?

If you are still a sinful human being, then how have you been saved from sin? As for me, I have been perfected forever by Jesus Christ; it takes my breath away every time I read that truth in scripture. It releases the motivating power of love to drive me to Christ for His power to do what I desire most: be like my bigger brother.

I have been saved from sin and death for no other reason than He loved me. "This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins."

They did not say this about sin. They said it about the fact that the rich would have a tough time entering through the narrow way. They believed worldly riches were a reward for obedience to God, and Jesus just blew that theory to smithers, and they were gobsmacked.

Just what do you think the narrow way is? The world offers a multitude of ways to heaven. Jesus promise is that all things are possible with God. How many spiritual blessings are excluded by the word all?

I noticed you didn't say you think Jesus saves us from our sins. So just how have I misread your beliefs?

Romans 12: 1 I BESEECH you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

For some reason you seem to think that justification is some kind of legal fiction that wipes out the record of our sins and nothing more is required of a Christian. Are you proving by your life what is the good, acceptable, perfect will of God? Are you presenting your body a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God which is your reasonable service? Have you been transformed by the renewing of your mind?

Phillipians 2: 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Have you allowed the mind of Jesus to be placed in you? It is that mind that made Him obedient to His Father to the point of dying rather than disobeying Him. His Father's will was worth dying for. That's how much of Himself He surrendered. How much of your will have you surrendered?

 

[Leaf473]

I think it would greatly help the discussion if those who observe the seventh day would say what the Commandments of God are.

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 14:12 - New American Standard Bible

Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

www.biblegateway.com

I get that the Ten Commandments are included, but knowing for sure what other Commandments are included would help move things forward, imo.

Bible Gateway passage: Proverbs 16:24 - New American Standard Bible

Pleasant words are a honeycomb, Sweet to the soul and healing to the bones.

www.biblegateway.com

The 10 commandments are the 10 commandments. They define sin.

Good to know, Gary

Thanks for your input

Say, Gary, would you like to list the other commandments that also define sin?

 

[Gary K]

Say, Gary, would you like to list the other commandments that also define sin?

The only commandments that define sin are the 10 commandments.

1John 3: 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[Leaf473]

The only commandments that define sin are the 10 commandments.

1John 3: 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Very interesting, thanks!

And this passage below, that refers to the commandments of God, is it referring to just the 10?

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 14:12 - New American Standard Bible

Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

Very interesting, thanks!

And this passage below, that refers to the commandments of God, is it referring to just the 10?

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 14:12 - New American Standard Bible

Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

www.biblegateway.com

Yes.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Just what do you think the narrow way is? The world offers a multitude of ways to heaven. Jesus promise is that all things are possible with God. How many spiritual blessings are excluded by the word all?

The narrow way is Jesus. It is only one man wide. Jesus said it many times himself, "I am the way..."

I noticed you didn't say you think Jesus saves us from our sins. So just how have I misread your beliefs?

I have not misread your beliefs; I have inquired about them. That is why there are question marks and not periods.

Romans 12: 1 I BESEECH you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

For some reason you seem to think that justification is some kind of legal fiction that wipes out the record of our sins and nothing more is required of a Christian. Are you proving by your life what is the good, acceptable, perfect will of God? Are you presenting your body a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God which is your reasonable service? Have you been transformed by the renewing of your mind?

No, nothing more is required. If one is brought to see their sinful, hopeless condition and in horror call out for salvation, which is granted then at eternal cost to God, they will never be the same again. They will be saved doing what they want to do the most: Growing into the fullness of Christ.

What do you want to do but don't because God's requirements forbid it? Whatever it is, you are as guilty of it as if you did commit it. Your desire to do it is a sin, just as luting after a maid is adultery.

Phillipians 2: 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Have you allowed the mind of Jesus to be placed in you? It is that mind that made Him obedient to His Father to the point of dying rather than disobeying Him. His Father's will was worth dying for. That's how much of Himself He surrendered. How much of your will have you surrendered?

And yet you are a man with sin. Can you not see the irony in that?

 

[Gary K]

The narrow way is Jesus. It is only one man wide. Jesus said it many times himself, "I am the way..."

I have not misread your beliefs; I have inquired about them. That is why there are question marks and not periods.

No, nothing more is required. If one is brought to see their sinful, hopeless condition and in horror call out for salvation, which is granted then at eternal cost to God, they will never be the same again. They will be saved doing what they want to do the most: Growing into the fullness of Christ.

What do you want to do but don't because God's requirements forbid it? Whatever it is, you are as guilty of it as if you did commit it. Your desire to do it is a sin, just as luting after a maid is adultery.

And yet you are a man with sin. Can you not see the irony in that?

So you not only disagree with the angel who talked to Joseph before the birth of .Jesus but Paul too. He says it straight out. Don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind

Romans 12: 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[sparow]

To keep the law as Christ did means you are without sin, and claiming such is a sin.

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If the truth is not in us, then we are not keeping God's law; we are only making an empty claim to be doing so.

I do not see where the seal of God is His law.

The seal of God is:

1. The Holy Spirit
   1. Ephesians 4:30
      And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
   2. Ephesians 1:13
      In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

God has not asked his people to do something that they are unable to do.

 

[Leaf473]

Yes.

Great! And very interesting again.

That's actually different from what I've heard from other Seventh Day observers here on CF.

Peace be with you, my man

 

[sparow]

Brother, we will be pure like Jesus before Jesus comes and not after Jesus comes.

See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure. (1 John 3:1-3 NIV)​

We are made pure by the truth in God's word, like learning the true Sabbath in the Bible to discard the human replacement traditions that keep us in sin through disobedience when the truth will set us free from sin as we obey the true Sabbath.

Make them holy by your truth; teach them your word, which is truth. (John 17:17 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Most of us will be resurrected from the grave and we will no longer be flesh and blood when we see him.

 

[Gary K]

Great! And very interesting again.

That's actually different from what I've heard from other Seventh Day observers here on CF.

Peace be with you, my man

So? Are all Sabbath keepers supposed to think alike?

 

[Leaf473]

So? Are all Sabbath keepers supposed to think alike?

If the scriptures are clear about what commandments from the Old Testament we are to keep,

then Yes, I would expect a high degree of uniformity in the answers

 

[Mercy Shown]

So you not only disagree with the angel who talked to Joseph before the birth of .Jesus but Paul too. He says it straight out. Don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind

Here you go again accusing, why? Especially when I am very clear. So for clarity, here is what I said:

No, nothing more is required. If one is brought to see their sinful, hopeless condition and in horror call out for salvation, which is granted then at eternal cost to God, they will never be the same again. They will be saved doing what they want to do the most: Growing into the fullness of Christ.

So again I would ask you what it is that you desire to do but hold back so that you might be saved?

Romans 12: 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Is this it? Is it because you wish you could be conformed to this world but you do no out of fear of eternal death?

 

[Mercy Shown]

God has not asked his people to do something that they are unable to do.

What comprises his people? How do they become His people?

If the scriptures are clear about what commandments from the Old Testament we are to keep,

then Yes, I would expect a high degree of uniformity in the answers

One Lord, one faith, one baptism as the Bible says.

 

[Leaf473]

One Lord, one faith, one baptism as the Bible says.

Definitely

And just before that,

Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 4:3 - New American Standard Bible

being diligent to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

If the scriptures are clear about what commandments from the Old Testament we are to keep,

then Yes, I would expect a high degree of uniformity in the answers

Is that why we see such unanimity among Sunday keepers? No differences in why they do what they do?

 

[Leaf473]

Is that why we see such unanimity among Sunday keepers? No differences in why they do what they do?

Not unanimity in the activities, uniformity in the answers.

The vast majority of Christians, when asked what laws they keep from the law of Moses,
will answer
"We're not under the law."

That's been my experience.

Peace be with you, my man!