The current problem with the Christian Church

[LittleNipper]

From the outside, I would have to say that what makes the church least attractive to me is the elitism and holier-than-thou attitude of many (certainly not all) Christians. Unfortunately a lot of the most outspoken Christians are also some of the angriest. It sometimes takes people as charismatic and down-to-earth as Gene Robinson and Desmond Tutu (and, of course, some of my own friends) to remind me that there are lovely Christians out there as well. But the public face of Christianity is, more than ever, the shouty evangelical with a list a mile long of people to condemn, and a list consisting solely of people in their church to actually be nice to.

I can agree; however, you must also see that remaining on the outside isn't going to get one aquainted with those on the inside, and if my invitation is not good enough, well, it looks like it may remain that way...

 

[mont974x4]

Thomas Linacre, physician of Henry VII and Henry VIII, and whom Linacre College is named after was given a copy of the Gospels and took Catholic orders. This was in a time when the Scitpures were only in the hands of a select few and corruption and sin were rampant in the church like no other time in history. After reading them he commented, "Either these are not the Gospels, or we are not Christians."

The problem of the church is a focus on "Christian", as opposed to a focus on Christ and really being Christ-like. Christ had a way of both holding people accountable for their sin while showing love, grace, and mercy.

 

[HannahBanana]

Good night, what a spin! I did not say that you need to "focus on God" like I was commanding you to worship Him! I was saying that the Christian church is made up of humans so of course we are going to be wrong....about....ALOT! Just like every other aspect of life. Our God is perfect so you cant fault Him is what I am saying.

Get a grip already, I cant "illustrate your point" if that was not even close to the point I was making. I never ever said that you should believe in Him, I was saying that the God that we worship does not hate sinners, and its an unfortunate part of life that we tend to get things wrong. Sheesh.

Sorry. I honestly didn't mean to spin your words. My reading comprehension is somewhat limited today because I just can't seem to wake up at all (and no, coffee wouldn't help me, lol; it would just make me hyper and anxious as all heck). Maybe this is a sign that I should stop debating for now.

And I see what you're saying now. But why are you trying to make up excuses for the "bad apples" in your political party? The fact is, you and I both realize that they're wrong for acting the way that they are, so why can't something be done to change that?

 

[LittleNipper]

I think the problem with the modern-day church is that its members (especially those who are conservative) want to turn every one of their morals into law, thus forcing non-Christians to abide by a holy book that they don't even believe in. I cannot honestly understand how they can think that such a thing is Christ-like at all.

Of course it is easier to get along with someone who agrees with everything. But is that Christ like?

 

[HannahBanana]

EDIT: Double post, sorry.

 

[HannahBanana]

I can agree; however, you must also see that remaining on the outside isn't going to get one aquainted with those on the inside, and if my invitation is not good enough, well, it looks like it may remain that way...

Thanks for providing perfect proof of my claim that so many Christians are pushy about their beliefs and their ethics.

 

[HannahBanana]

Of course it is easier to get along with someone who agrees with everything. But is that Christ like?

Where did I ever say that Christians have to agree with everything? I simply said that many Christians are trying to turn their personal morals into law, which is completely true.

 

[SamanthaB]

Sorry. I honestly didn't mean to spin your words. My reading comprehension is somewhat limited today because I just can't seem to wake up at all (and no, coffee wouldn't help me, lol; it would just make me hyper and anxious as all heck). Maybe this is a sign that I should stop debating for now.

And I see what you're saying now. But why are you trying to make up excuses for the "bad apples" in your political party? The fact is, you and I both realize that they're wrong for acting the way that they are, so why can't something be done to change that?

I am not making excuses, I am acknowledging that no one is perfect. I cannot even try to change anyone else. I can only offer my beliefs and perspective. I myself cannot wage a holy war to try and change the church, most people wouldnt listen anyway.

 

[jcook922]

Of course it is easier to get along with someone who agrees with everything. But is that Christ like?

Is intolerance to the beliefs of others christ-like?

 

[mont974x4]

Where did I ever say that Christians have to agree with everything? I simply said that many Christians are trying to turn their personal morals into law, which is completely true.

True, but we should be honest enough to acknowledge that the same is happening with non-Christians as well. Every law is based on someones morals.

 

[HannahBanana]

True, but we should be honest enough to acknowledge that the same is happening with non-Christians as well. Every law is based on someones morals.

No, most laws are based on logic and reality, not on morals.

 

[mont974x4]

does it matter? The fact remains that people, of all types, have been pushing their own moral ideals to become law.

 

[mont974x4]

no, most laws are based on someones morals. They use logic to reason why their morals should be law.

 

[HannahBanana]

I am not making excuses, I am acknowledging that no one is perfect. I cannot even try to change anyone else. I can only offer my beliefs and perspective. I myself cannot wage a holy war to try and change the church, most people wouldnt listen anyway.

Who says we can't change the way others think/act? The Religious Right was able to change the way Republicans thought when it hijacked their party in the 1980s, so why can't anyone else change the way others think?

 

[HannahBanana]

does it matter? The fact remains that people, of all types, have been pushing their own moral ideals to become law.

I'm against that in all forms, though. In my opinion, the laws of this country should be based entirely on logic and reality. Morals should have no say in them.

 

[mont974x4]

then we'd have no laws

 

[SamanthaB]

Who says we can't change the way others think/act? The Religious Right was able to change the way Republicans thought when it hijacked their party in the 1980s, so why can't anyone else change the way others think?

True, but I think I have enough issues on my own that I need to address before I go and try and change other people's issues, believe me, I have tried. The answer I came up with is to simply offer my view, and do my best to live by it. Kind of "actions speak louder than words" kind of attitude.

 

[HannahBanana]

then we'd have no laws

Care to provide proof that all laws were put into place as a result of someone's personal morals?

 

[Anglian]

One of the things that may be 'wrong' is the assumption that what happens in America and the UK is in some way typical or normative.

My own Church lives in a state where to be a Christian is to be a target for attack by those Muslims who do not follow the teachings of their own Prophet (pbuh), so we have everyday experience of what it is like to be on the receiving end of hatred and intolerance. Leaving the Church is a passport to a better life in Egypt, and yet most Copts remain, and vocations to the priesthood and the monastic life are growing.

Perhaps if we all remembered the words of St. Isaac here, there would be fewer problems:
'God's mercifulness is far more extensive than we can conceive.'

Perhaps we should try to remember that - and behave that way to each other. He is Love.

Peace,

Anglian

 

[mont974x4]

Why is murder wrong? It isn't because of logic, it is because we value human life.
Why do we have speed limits? Again, not because of logic, but because someone valued the safety of people, and some people valued the Earth and considered the pollution issue.

Logic is a thought process. We beleive that human life has value, so we use logic to determine the best way to protect human life and punish those who go against the moral value of life, which gives way to a law.

Logic is the tool used to take a moral ideal and find a practical application of the ideal.