The circular argument of God and miracles

[miknik5]

"want" and "demand" aren't synonyms.

Here we are on a forum discussing The ONE and Only and that is not allowed. But it is allowable to discuss the "idea" ofmany gods

Just not the One True God

You sir are trying to trap me because you know that here one is not allowed to discuss the One True God to atheists who do not want to hear that TRUTH

Judge yourself why you are more upset when one comes and holds to One Truth and does not change their testimony
Judge yourself why you are saying and speaking of yourself and accusing me of doing more harm than good

It would be better if I told you that there are other truths other ways

But I can't

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Continue being the name you have claimed for yourself.
If I lied about GOD I have more to fear then you

But I haven't

No one is saying you're lying. But that's not the issue. The issue is the demonstrable harm your doing, and your insistence that it's offset by something you can't show to be true.

Here's an analogy:

Let's say that you have stray dogs in your area, and leave large bowls of chocolate out for them, believing that it's good for them. I tell you it can be poisonous, but you dismiss that and continue doing it. You later find dead dogs near your doorstep. I say "see, you're killing these dogs". You say that regardless of those dead dogs, there are other dogs out there, dogs that you can't actually confirm exists, that are being made more healthy by eating the chocolate you leave out.

Do you see how that seems completely illogical?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Here we are on a forum discussing The ONE and Only and that is not allowed. But it is allowable to discuss the "idea" ofmany gods

Just not the One True God

You sir are trying to trap me because you know that here one is not allowed to discuss the One True God to atheists who do not want to hear that TRUTH

Judge yourself why you are more upset when one comes and holds to One Truth and does not change their testimony
Judge yourself why you are saying and speaking of yourself and accusing me of doing more harm than good

It would be better if I told you that there are other truths other ways

But I can't

I'm not trying to "trap" you. I'm trying to understand why you do the things you do, and believe the things you believe.

You seem to be exceedingly evasive.

 

[miknik5]

No one is saying you're lying. But that's not the issue. The issue is the demonstrable harm your doing, and your insistence that it's offset by something you can't show to be true.

Here's an analogy:

Let's say that you have stray dogs in your area, and leave large bowls of chocolate out for them, believing that it's good for them. I tell you it can be poisonous, but you dismiss that and continue doing it. You later find dead dogs near your doorstep. I say "see, you're killing these dogs". You say that regardless of those dead dogs, there are other dogs out there, dogs that you can't actually confirm exists, that are being made more healthy by eating the chocolate you leave out.

Do you see how that seems completely illogical?

Oh my goodness!
But there it is!

No one is saying I'm lying?!

But to remain in denial to The Truth is okay?

Who is the one who is causing more harm?

 

[miknik5]

I'm not trying to "trap" you. I'm trying to understand why you do the things you do, and believe the things you believe.

You seem to be exceedingly evasive.

Todd

You were not baptized
If you were you would never have "gone out"

 

[Loudmouth]

Sorry. You are wrong on all counts

Except for bullet 1
I don't have to test anything
I know what I know what I know
Because of the Truth that GOD is the one who reveals HIS TRUTH

And when HE does there really isn't anything more needed to do

If you claim that your idea is testable, then it is up to you to show how it is testable. Lacking such demonstration, we can only conclude that your idea is not testable, and therefore not a hypothesis. It isn't up to us to back your claim that you have a valid hypothesis.

 

[Loudmouth]

now why would I do that when He is Sovereign. All things are seen in Light of Him and that Truth. I hold nothing permanently in my hands but I have EVERYTHING needed and needful because I am in His Hands

Those are bare assertions.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Oh my goodness!
But there it is!

No one is saying I'm lying?!

But to remain in denial to The Truth is okay?

Who is the one who is causing more harm?

"Mistaken" and "lying" are not synonyms. No one is saying you're lying.

In terms of converting atheists to Christianity, you're demonstrably doing harm.

Did you at least understand the point of the analogy?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Todd

You were not baptized
If you were you would never have "gone out"

Your prediction powers are still failing you.

I was baptized as an infant, and then later as a teenager.

 

[miknik5]

If you claim that your idea is testable, then it is up to you to show how it is testable. Lacking such demonstration, we can only conclude that your idea is not testable, and therefore not a hypothesis. It isn't up to us to back your claim that you have a valid hypothesis.

Sir?
Thank you for telling me what I need to do

But as i have already said

I am not the one who needs to do anything at all

 

[Loudmouth]

Sir?
Thank you for telling me what I need to do

But as i have already said

I am not the one who needs to do anything at all

You can say it all you want. You are still wrong.

 

[miknik5]

Your prediction powers are still failing you.

I was baptized as an infant, and then later as a teenager.

I wasn't talking about water baptism

 

[miknik5]

You can say it all you want. You are still wrong.

You can say it all you want as well
I am not wrong

But yes of course you can say whatever you wish to as well

 

[miknik5]

"Mistaken" and "lying" are not synonyms. No one is saying you're lying.

In terms of converting atheists to Christianity, you're demonstrably doing harm.

Did you at least understand the point of the analogy?

Okay. I'm not lying and I'm not mistaken

And as to "converting" anyone?
Does any man have that power?

No

Further what good would it be for any man to "convert" another
Will he remain with "that convert" shepherding him?
No

Therefore it is much better to point all men (regardless of whatever outward name they have given themselves, with no bias or hidden thought within as to whether one is "worthy" or not worthy to hear The TRUTH) to the One and Only Shepherd and let HIM shepherd HIS OWN flock as HE chooses

 

[Loudmouth]

You can say it all you want as well
I am not wrong

You are the one claiming that you have a testable hypothesis. It is your burden of proof to support the claim.

 

[miknik5]

Todd?

I was water baptized as an infant also

But I was not BAPTIZED until the age of 39. And there was no physical water present when I was

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I wasn't talking about water baptism

Yes, I was also baptized in the spirit when I accepted Jesus as my saviour, but you shouldn't think of that as a separate "work":

"We may use whatever words we want to describe our experiences with God. But it is most accurate to say that the Bible uses “baptism of the Spirit” to refer to one of the wonderful things that God does for us the instant we trust Christ and enter His family!"
Author: Dr. John Bechtle.

Read more at: http://christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t004.html

So, could it be the case that I was really a Christian? Because if you think that can't be the case, you're going to have to deal with some troubling issues...

 

[miknik5]

You are the one claiming that you have a testable hypothesis. It is your burden of proof to support the claim.

Did I now?

I said the Truth of God is the Truth of God

I said the wind blows where it listeth

I said this anointing is real

There is no "burden" on me sir

I know the Truth. I have testified to This Truth

The "burden" is on you to
moooooove

Get off the merry go round and seek HIM for yourself

Again do what the townspeople in John 4 did

For those who seek shall find those who ask it shall be given those who knock THE DOOR shall be opened and HE will come in and "eat/fellowship" with you and you with HIM

And you will learn of HIM from HIM

And you too will say just what the townspeople said to the woman at the well:

We have heard HIM for ourselves and we believe that this is The Christ, The Savior of the World

 

[miknik5]

Yes, I was also baptized in the spirit when I accepted Jesus as my saviour, but you shouldn't think of that as a separate "work":

"We may use whatever words we want to describe our experiences with God. But it is most accurate to say that the Bible uses “baptism of the Spirit” to refer to one of the wonderful things that God does for us the instant we trust Christ and enter His family!"
Author: Dr. John Bechtle.

Read more at: http://christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t004.html

So, could it be the case that I was really a Christian? Because if you think that can't be the case, you're going to have to deal with some troubling issues...

You had trouble and you went out and now you hold to a name that denies HIM?

Thst is not "wonderful"

By the way I do not read the words of men telling me what Gos says and means. His Word is sufficient and His Soirit is sufficient and His written word and His Voice and Spirit do not and will not contradict each other

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Okay. I'm not lying and I'm not mistaken

And as to "converting" anyone?
Does any man have that power?

No

Further what good would it be for any man to "convert" another
Will he remain with "that convert" shepherding him?
No

Therefore it is much better to point all men (regardless of whatever outward name they have given themselves, with no bias or hidden thought within as to whether one is "worthy" or not worthy to hear The TRUTH) to the One and Only Shepherd and let HIM shepherd HIS OWN flock as HE chooses

You keep skirting around the issue. I'm beginning to think it's intentional.

I and at least one other atheist has said that what you're doing, the way you're discussing all this, is making us more convinced that we're correct in our atheism. It might be the case that all the atheists here feel this way.

Do you see that this is harm? That the god you believe in would want you to be doing this? Realize that if you hadn't said anything, or discussed things in a more logical way, then these effects that you are causing wouldn't have happened.