The circular argument of God and miracles

[ToddNotTodd]

My initial response is the witnesses who all hold to the testimony of Jesus

And the testimony of those that believe in Vishnu is evidence that Vishnu exists, according to what you're saying.

Unless you have a double standard that says that a type of evidence only works in the case you're making, and not the case that other people would make.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Of course not. Most people know the idea of God.

I've already explained why the traditional tri-omni god has no explanatory power (and is logically contradictory to boot).

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

... by the way "A" at the beginning of a root word means
"not"

It means 'not' or 'without' (see English Language Roots). Theism is belief in (the existence of) a deity or deities, and atheism means not having belief in a deity or deities, or being without a belief in a deity or deities.

This may or may not include not knowing whether deities exist, or believing that we can't know whether deities exist, or believing that deities don't exist (there are other variations).

 

[HitchSlap]

The testimonies of those who are telling you as His witnesses to The truth which you do not believe

Do you really think testimonies are convincing?

 

[miknik5]

Do you really think testimonies are convincing?

Do we have any right to decide who will hear and believe?

We were told to go; that the Gospel would be preached as a testimony and then will the end come

And in the end, just as the law required two or three witnesses to validate a testimony...there will be.

 

[miknik5]

So sorry auto "correct" has its own mind

 

[juvenissun]

Minds can come up with all sorts of things which can't possibly exist.

Or are you saying that gods exists as concepts and not as existent things?

Because that's a possibility...

Yes, a concept could be a possibility.

 

[juvenissun]

I've already explained why the traditional tri-omni god has no explanatory power (and is logically contradictory to boot).

I suggested that Allah has the power.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I suggested that Allah has the power.

Allah is said to be omnipotent and all-merciful, which attributes are also logically at odds; and any omnipotent, omni-benevolent or all-merciful god concept faces the problem of evil. As already said, you can't explain with the inexplicable (or incoherent).

 

[DogmaHunter]

A hypothesis is a hypothesis

And one aspect of a hypothesis, is that it is testable.
If it isn't, then the word "hypothesis" is not an accurate word to describe the idea being presented.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Faith and without it well there is the problem already

If one even has faith the size of a mustard seed he would have sought for himself

But right now it is easier to blame others for their lack of doing the work of seeking for themselves.

All it. Ones down to in the end is that Truth remains Truth regardless and one will not be able to blame another

They simply did not believe the testimonies given to this Truth

How exactly does "faith" establish things as being "possible"?

 

[DogmaHunter]

My initial response is the witnesses who all hold to the testimony of Jesus

What I was telling you sir is that only one has been given authority over flesh to give to whom He chooses LIFE

And it isn't vishnu

People keep asking you why you believe what you believe, and all you offer in response is merely restating what you believe.

 

[juvenissun]

Allah is said to be omnipotent and all-merciful, which attributes are also logically at odds; and any omnipotent, omni-benevolent or all-merciful god concept faces the problem of evil. As already said, you can't explain with the inexplicable (or incoherent).

No god for atheists. No answer either.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Asserted is not the issue with Bob and Alice, certainly not with their immediate reactions to the water walking incident..

You either don't comprehend the scenario, or you are deliberatly ignoring the point made...

Bob is acknowledging his ignorance in the matter. He doesn't understand what is going on and is honest about it by saying that he doesn't know.

Alice then merely makes something up. The total non-explanation that "god-dun-it", while this god can't even be shown to exist, let alone that it has anything whatsoever to do with the apparant walking on water part.

In other words, Alice, is asserting a causal relationship, which can not be shown to exist, and attributes it to an entity which also cannot be shown to exist.

If that isn't an assertion without evidence, I don't know what is.

 

[DogmaHunter]

No god for atheists. No answer either.

Pretending to have an answer, is worse then acknowledging ignorance.

Acknowledging ignorance is also a good thing. It paves the way for additional research and progress. It's how we learn things: "I don't know how this functions...lets get to work and find out"

As opposed to: "God-dun-it...who needs evidence when you have faith..."

 

[bookofjade]

Let's say that Bob and Alice go to the beach and see someone walking on water. Bob comments, "Wow, I don't understand how this is happening as it appears to defy all laws of physics. I wonder how he is doing it?"

Alice answers, "God is causing him to be able to walk on water."

Bob says, "But, first we must establish that God exists. How do you know God exists?"

Alice answer, "Just look at all the miraculous events in our world."



Anyone have a response to this?

Bob's position seems more intellectually honest: admission of ignorance to the cause of his observation. He honestly doesn't know how it is happening and he readily admits as such.

Well you'd have to prove that such miracles are exclusive to Jesus and are not recorded elsewhere.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Well you'd have to prove that such miracles are exclusive to Jesus and are not recorded elsewhere.

How about you first establish that this even is a "miracle" in the first place, instead of just asserting it?

Because you know, things aren't always as they seem:

 

[miknik5]

And one aspect of a hypothesis, is that it is testable.
If it isn't, then the word "hypothesis" is not an accurate word to describe the idea being presented.

Then test it for yourself which is what a man is capable and able to do and should do

 

[miknik5]

Well you'd have to prove that such miracles are exclusive to Jesus and are not recorded elsewhere.

Well there's always other spirits going outside the authority of Jesus and causing confusion

Of course

 

[miknik5]

Well there's always other spirits going outside the authority of Jesus

People keep asking you why you believe what you believe, and all you offer in response is merely restating what you believe.

i didn't already tell you that when God makes Himself known you know. It's the very reason why those whom God has revealed Himself to can't stop from speaking