The Church

[J_B_]

Is anyone familiar with how the NT or the Church Fathers describe the Church or what they understood it to be?

 

[U.S. Grant]

Is anyone familiar with how the NT or the Church Fathers describe the Church or what they understood it to be?

The temple of God. The churches of God. The body of Christ. The congregation of the saints. Chosen nation. Royal priesthood. The brethren.

 

[J_B_]

The temple of God. The churches of God. The body of Christ. The congregation of the saints. Chosen nation. Royal priesthood. The brethren.

I'm familiar with the phrases, so I'll clarify my question to ask if you know what text those phrases come from. That way I can dig deeper.

For example, the body of Christ is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12. Would you know if Augustine, John Chrysostom, etc. ever wrote about 1 Corinthians 12? Or other related passages?

Also, maybe it's obvious, but the reason I posted in the forum I did is because I'm interested in an LCMS response to my question.

 

[dzheremi]

St. John Chrysostom: 29th homily on 1 Corinthians

 

[sandman]

Do you mean like Eusebius 260-340 A.D, the Bishop of Caesarea..... called the father of Church History

 

[U.S. Grant]

I'm familiar with the phrases, so I'll clarify my question to ask if you know what text those phrases come from. That way I can dig deeper.

For example, the body of Christ is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12. Would you know if Augustine, John Chrysostom, etc. ever wrote about 1 Corinthians 12? Or other related passages?

Also, maybe it's obvious, but the reason I posted in the forum I did is because I'm interested in an LCMS response to my question.

What's LCMS?

 

[J_B_]

What's LCMS?

Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod. If you didn't know that, you may want to read the rules for this forum before continuing.

 

[J_B_]

St. John Chrysostom: 29th homily on 1 Corinthians

Excellent. Thank you.

With that said, it may be difficult to get what I'm after. In addition to posting this I've been hunting. I found some snippets in Clement's Letter to the Corinthians and this book on Augustine: https://www.amazon.com/Augustine-My...e+mystery+of+the+church&qid=1632784425&sr=8-1

Obviously I'm just getting started, but already I can tell it's much too easy to read my understanding of the Church into what they're saying.

 

[J_B_]

Do you mean like Eusebius 260-340 A.D, the Bishop of Caesarea..... called the father of Church History

I have a copy of Eusebius. I could be wrong, but I doubt he would have what I'm looking for - though he probably does qualify as a Church Father.

 

[Daniel9v9]

There's a fantastic book on this: Ecclessiologia by Weidner

I've written up an article that draws a lot on this book, and also our confessions, and other Lutheran works. You can read or skim through it here if you like:
The Church

Also, I'm currently working on a YouTube commentary series on the Didache, which is a Christian writing put together very close to or towards the end of the New Testament period. A big part of this commentary is to reflect on the beliefs, nature, and practises of the Early Church and compare it with the church bodies of our day. The Didache is a unique window into the Early Church and it gives us many clues as to how they understood the Scriptures, so I'd recommend reading that if you haven't already.

 

[J_B_]

There's a fantastic book on this: Ecclessiologia by Weidner

I've written up an article that draws a lot on this book, and also our confessions, and other Lutheran works. You can read or skim through it here if you like:
The Church

Thanks, I'll take a look.

Also, I'm currently working on a YouTube commentary series on the Didache, which is a Christian writing put together very close to or towards the end of the New Testament period. A big part of this commentary is to reflect on the beliefs, nature, and practises of the Early Church and compare it with the church bodies of our day. The Didache is a unique window into the Early Church and it gives us many clues as to how they understood the Scriptures, so I'd recommend reading that if you haven't already.

I'm aware of the Didache, but never read it. What's the timeline on your video?

 

[Daniel9v9]

Thanks, I'll take a look.

I'm aware of the Didache, but never read it. What's the timeline on your video?

Well, the Didache is very interesting (at least to me!) and it's not a long read.

The commentary has been a bit of an undertaking — it's a 12 part video series, with each video being on average some 30 - 60 minutes each. All of the research is done, and I'm currently in the process of recording it and putting together the videos, which will take some time. I'm hoping to publish it all in a couple of months, and I'll make sure to post a link to it on this forum.

I did, however, just now publish the Didache for you so you can read a more modern translation of it for free, if you like. You can find it here (there's also a PDF version of it):
The Didache | THE REJECTED STONE

(The "< BACK TO COMMENTARY" link at the bottom is disabled as I'm still working on the commentary.)

 

[LizaMarie]

There's a fantastic book on this: Ecclessiologia by Weidner

I've written up an article that draws a lot on this book, and also our confessions, and other Lutheran works. You can read or skim through it here if you like:
The Church

Also, I'm currently working on a YouTube commentary series on the Didache, which is a Christian writing put together very close to or towards the end of the New Testament period. A big part of this commentary is to reflect on the beliefs, nature, and practises of the Early Church and compare it with the church bodies of our day. The Didache is a unique window into the Early Church and it gives us many clues as to how they understood the Scriptures, so I'd recommend reading that if you haven't already.

I second the Didache I bought and read it about a year ago, is fairly short.

 

[The Liturgist]

I second the Didache I bought and read it about a year ago, is fairly short.

Indeed. I myself try to follow its prayer rule of saying the Lord’s Prayer three times a day at a minimum; actually this became my habit in childhood before I had even read the Didache.

 

[Tigger45]

Indeed. I myself try to follow its prayer rule of saying the Lord’s Prayer three times a day at a minimum; actually this became my habit in childhood before I had even read the Didache.

Me too!

As a blue collar worker I take two showers a day. First thing when I wake up and a second when I get home. I try to remember to say the Lord's prayer when bathing (sprinkling of course as a symbol of my baptism and another time at 3pm in honor of Christ dying on the cross.

 

[Till Schilling]

The commentary has been a bit of an undertaking — it's a 12 part video series, with each video being on average some 30 - 60 minutes each. All of the research is done, and I'm currently in the process of recording it and putting together the videos, which will take some time. I'm hoping to publish it all in a couple of months, and I'll make sure to post a link to it on this forum.)

Impressive! When do you sleep?

looking forward to this.

 

[Daniel9v9]

Impressive! When do you sleep?

looking forward to this.

Oh, thank you very much for your interest — That means a lot!

I'm working on several projects and they're all pretty big undertakings, but it's moving forward. I look forward to sharing more with you all in the coming months — And if you're able, I'd certainly appreciate your prayers!

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

As an aside question,
Why is the Didache accepted by Lutherans but the Ladder of Divine Ascent or say, The Rule of St Benedict, frowned upon?

There's a fantastic book on this: Ecclessiologia by Weidner

I've written up an article that draws a lot on this book, and also our confessions, and other Lutheran works. You can read or skim through it here if you like:
The Church

Also, I'm currently working on a YouTube commentary series on the Didache, which is a Christian writing put together very close to or towards the end of the New Testament period. A big part of this commentary is to reflect on the beliefs, nature, and practises of the Early Church and compare it with the church bodies of our day. The Didache is a unique window into the Early Church and it gives us many clues as to how they understood the Scriptures, so I'd recommend reading that if you haven't already.

 

[Daniel9v9]

As an aside question,
Why is the Didache accepted by Lutherans but the Ladder of Divine Ascent or say, The Rule of St Benedict, frowned upon?

Well, the Didache was put together close to or perhaps even towards the end of the New Testament era. (There's some debate regarding its development and date, but I favour an early date.) The Didache is a kind of catechism or instruction manual produced by the Church for the Church, though it doesn't have too much in the way of theological statements. That's not to say that it's void of theology, but rather, that we can understand how they understood the Scriptures by what they practice. And I believe that the church of the Didache upheld the apostolic doctrine and serves as a great early confession of faith.

I regret to say I don't know much about either the Ladder of Divine Ascent or The Rule of Saint Benedict, so I can't speak much to those. However, what I can say is that they are later developments than the Didache, and having read the Desert Fathers, I can venture a guess. Essentially: The Didache echoes the New Testament. Later Monasticism doesn't — it goes beyond God's Word and institutes laws and ideas not found anywhere in the Scriptures. They contain elements that have no example, promise, or command in God's Word, and that's problematic. That's not to say that everything is wrong or unfit for devotional purposes, but as a theological framework, it's become something different from what we see in the New Testament and reflected in the Didache.

Regarding the problems of later monasticism, I can recommend reading what our confessions say regarding monastic vows: Article XXVII. Of Monastic Vows | Book of Concord