The church must be catholic!

[Jaxxi]

We are wandering further and further from the topic of this thread.

The fact remains that orthodox Christians of all denominations have ascribed to the historic creeds of the Church which include the resurrection of the body and the final judgement.

How are we wandering further away from the topic? We are talking about the Catholic church!

 

[bbbbbbb]

So what do you do that is different in your denomination? You do not have idols or statues of images of things from above or below?

It is not so much what we do, but what we don't do. We don't have any statuary whatsoever, any religious paintings or graphics (although there are a few framed generic photographs of church activities, etc.). We do have a missionary map. We don't have any crosses of any type. There are no cross-shaped rooms. There is no altar, just a communion table. There is also a controversial American flag (one member considers it to be sacra religeous because it represents allegiance to a human institution of government and not God.

It actually makes life much quieter, although much less interesting, not having some form of art to argue over.

 

[bbbbbbb]

How are we wandering further away from the topic? We are talking about the Catholic church!

I was not asked about what the Roman Church does, was I? The topic of the thread is the catholic church, which our Roman Catholic friends assume to be their own denomination. Do you think catholic means Roman Catholic, too?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I am Elvis, don't tell anyone, I do not know what space ship I was in.

 

[Thomas White]

I pay attention to what the "church" is doing. It is not a secret or a " conspiracy theory". They are just facts. Why do you doubt my words? I would never come on here and blatantly lie about such serious claims.
View attachment 295214 View attachment 295215 View attachment 295216 View attachment 295217

How do these images lend credence to your belief?

 

[Thomas White]

And another thing. This statue is at the Vatican. What Godly wholesome Christlike loving depiction do you think this is of? Is this how Catholics envision the Resurrection? With our Lord Jesus Christ surrounded and being touched by demons? That is the best depiction they could come up with on an enormous scale? View attachment 295218

This sculpture shows Jesus rising from the crater of a nuclear attack, saying that Jesus is supreme over the evil of mankind.

 

[Jaxxi]

How do these images lend credence to your belief?

I do not have a belief except that they show what they show. They have to mean something- I mean, you cannot just ignore them or excuse them. My BELIEF is that there is something odd about a few of the things that a church that is supposed to be the holiest in all the land is doing and accepting to be portrayed as. What is the message? I am not judging them, I am just trying to grasp the angle they are taking. Some of it is disturbing and I am not the first and only person to notice it.

 

[Jaxxi]

This sculpture shows Jesus rising from the crater of a nuclear attack, saying that Jesus is supreme over the evil of mankind.

I understand that but is that the best depiction of Jesus they could come up with? Jesus emerging from a nuclear crater is not Biblical brother! If you were asked to come up with an enormous statue of Christ for the Vatican, would you present this to them and feel like this was perfect? I highly doubt it.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I do not have a belief except that they show what they show. They have to mean something- I mean, you cannot just ignore them or excuse them. My BELIEF is that there is something odd about a few of the things that a church that is supposed to be the holiest in all the land is doing and accepting to be portrayed as. What is the message? I am not judging them, I am just trying to grasp the angle they are taking. Some of it is disturbing and I am not the first and only person to notice it.

It is not for me to pass judgement on my brothers, other than to separate from them where necessary. In matters of art and decoration, it is very rarely a necessity to separate because of those issues alone.

If you were Catholic I would recommend working with your clergy about your objections. Because you are not, there is nothing you actually can do to change the situation, is there?

 

[Thomas White]

I understand that but is that the best depiction of Jesus they could come up with? Jesus emerging from a nuclear crater is not Biblical brother! If you were asked to come up with an enormous statue of Christ for the Vatican, would you present this to them and feel like this was perfect? I highly doubt it.

It illustrates Jesus rising above the evil of the world. That is precisely what He did when He ascended. He continues to be supreme over the evil of the world, even the greatest evil mankind has ever created.

 

[Thomas White]

I do not have a belief except that they show what they show. They have to mean something- I mean, you cannot just ignore them or excuse them. My BELIEF is that there is something odd about a few of the things that a church that is supposed to be the holiest in all the land is doing and accepting to be portrayed as. What is the message? I am not judging them, I am just trying to grasp the angle they are taking. Some of it is disturbing and I am not the first and only person to notice it.

That's the good thing about the Church. We are all in this together. We are the body of the Christ. Let's work this out together as sisters and brothers. What have you noticed that is disturbing? We can talk about it and clear up any misconceptions either of us might have.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It illustrates Jesus rising above the evil of the world. That is precisely what He did when He ascended. He continues to be supreme over the evil of the world, even the greatest evil mankind has ever created.

Jesus deformed? There is nothing that shows Jesus is being represented as “Holy” in that statue. It does seems dark and creepy, not Holy and Sacred. God is a God of love and He is our Light. That statue represents darkness imho. The opposite of what Jesus represents.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Jesus deformed? There is nothing that shows Jesus is being represented as “Holy” in that statue. It does seems dark and creepy, not Holy and Sacred. God is a God of love and He is our Light. That statue represents darkness imho. The opposite of what Jesus represents.

Is anyone forcing you to look at it, much less appreciate it? It is a free country and I don't bother myself with art I don't appreciate. If others appreciate it that is their business.

 

[Jaxxi]

It is not for me to pass judgement on my brothers, other than to separate from them where necessary. In matters of art and decoration, it is very rarely a necessity to separate because of those issues alone.

If you were Catholic I would recommend working with your clergy about your objections. Because you are not, there is nothing you actually can do to change the situation, is there?

Here is the deal. How can I not pass judgement when they are trying to say that this is a depiction of my Lord Jesus Christ rising up from a non Biblical nuclear crater with a legion of demons in between the fangs of a serpents face? This is NOT the Lord Jesus Christ being depicted and if you do not take offense to this atrocity being considered acceptable art by fellow Christians, maybe you should ask yourself why they are so defensive of it and accepting?

Between the fangs is the enormous sculpture of what looks like someone rising from the pit of hell with a bunch of demons. Who does that sound like? Anyone we have heard of or are expecting anytime soon? Yes I have a problem with this and I am not afraid to voice it. It is blasphemous, and an abomination....with all due respect. If it were in an art museum that is one thing but this is supposed to be the Church of the world! Jesus Christ Church of the whole world! How can you turn away and say it is not your business? Please note it is not YOU per se I am addressing here- it is the whole turning a blind eye attitude that many people seem to have, like it is none of their business and if that's what they want to do let them . Who does Jesus count on to defend His Word and truth while He is away? Who has He called upon to do what is right? He has called upon us. Maybe THIS is the abomination of desolation standing where it ought not be.( Let the reader understand) Amen?

 

[Jaxxi]

Jesus deformed? There is nothing that shows Jesus is being represented as “Holy” in that statue. It does seems dark and creepy, not Holy and Sacred. God is a God of love and He is our Light. That statue represents darkness imho. The opposite of what Jesus represents.

My take on it all is posted above this post. Am I wrong?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

My take on it all is posted above this post. Am I wrong?

I agree. I am more concerned with the Catholic church deeming themselves as Biblical leaders when them keep making changes to God's Word. Here are just a few quotes from the Roman Catholic Church:

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the Seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174

Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. "The Day of the Lord" (dies Dominica) was chosen, not from any directions noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church's sense of its own power. The day of resurrection, the day of Pentecost, fifty days later, came on the first day of the week. So this would be the new Sabbath. People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.
—Sentinel, Pastor's page, Saint Catherine Catholic Church, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995

 

[SabbathBlessings]

staff edit

That's why Jesus teaches us to follow God's commandments and not the traditions of man.

Mathew 15:8-9 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

It's important to know the Bible. Satan has a counterfeit to everything. Keep your eyes on Jesus, study the Word and ask God for His Holy Spirit to guide you to the Truth. Our God is amazing and more powerful than satan. We may have to go through some rough patches, but God will protect His people. Death doesn't scare me, losing my way does. God wants to bless each of us and wants us to be happy. He asks for so little in return but keeping His Sabbath Holy is really important to Him. Just reading the 170+ scriptures in the Bible about His Sabbath lets us know how important it is.

He tells us His Sabbath is how we are sanctified Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.

He said the Sabbath is a sign between God and His people
Exodus 3:13 Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. Ezekiel 20:20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’

Gods Sabbath is such a blessing and I look forward to it every week.

God bless!

 

[bbbbbbb]

staff edit

Do you also have problems with Ezekiel 37:1-10?

37:1 The hand of the Lord was on me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the Lord and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of bones. 2 He led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. 3 He asked me, “Son of man, can these bones live?”

I said, “Sovereign Lord, you alone know.”

4 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to these bones and say to them, ‘Dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! 5 This is what the Sovereign Lord says to these bones: I will make breathenter you, and you will come to life. 6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the Lord.’”

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.

9 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Come, breath, from the four winds and breathe into these slain, that they may live.’” 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet—a vast army.

 

[Jaxxi]

Are you an iconoclast?

No I am not. I mean do I believe in idols, and statues, and carvings, no.

‘Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land to bow down unto it; for I am the Lord your God. Leviticus 26:1

I am pro Bible, and I try to not disobey the laws of God. Do I like statues? Yes, I like them if they represent the figure with respect and dignity and truth.

 

[Thomas White]

How about the fact it it is an image of my a man bursting up by out from thousands of it skulls and demonic looking at death. It is not in cheery and loving. You see don't see that? Just about everyone who loves Jesus has a problem with this statue.

Yes, it's showing Jesus rising above the disaster of man's greatest evil - nuclear weapons. It's not intended to be cheery, but it is very loving. The message is clear: even when we mess it up, He is still there, waiting to embrace us. He does not fail.

I promise you that the crucifixion did not look cheery. The stoning of Stephen did not look cheery. The entirety of the Revelation does not look cheery. Jesus is not cheery.

God is the supreme being of the universe. He wiped armies from the Earth with just a thought, and He plans to destroy the Earth with fire. There's nothing cheery about that.

Despite all the darkness in the Bible, the light of His love constantly shines. That is the message of the sculpture. Despite all the evil in this world, Jesus rises above it all. His sacrifice and resurrection from the dead will never change. We still have salvation through Him.