The case for NOT getting married

[Romanseight2005]

Where are your stats to back up your statement about women being much better at hiding their true selves? I find that to be completely false.

 

[mattyb1982]

Where are your stats to back up your statement about women being much better at hiding their true selves? I find that to be completely false.

I cant post links yet, but google "paternity fraud stats"
​

MSC edit

 

[Romanseight2005]

I cant post links yet, but google "paternity fraud stats"
​

Need I go even further? Spin Little Hamster Spin!

Paternity fraud? So you are talking about a woman claiming to be pregnant by a man, who really isn't the father? That's not even in the same ballpark with what I was talking about. :o First of all, in order for that to even happen, you must be having premarital sex right? That's mistake number one. I was talking about people being genuine, as in showing who they really are. I know a lot of men who play the smooth Knight in shining armor, only to turn in to Jekyl, after the marriage. Btw, what was the hamster comment about? Were you making fun of me, or goading me, by chance?

 

[hijklmnop]

You phrase that statement as if , there are signs which men could use to filter out women who would leave them holding the back. While there are things to look out for, people do change and woman are much better hiding their true intentions as a gender than men. The divorce stats speak for themselves.

Completely made up and false.

Women are like children in the sense if given too much leeway they cause havock with their lives, and must be told no on a regular basis to be happy. You ever notice that the women who always gets their way with their husbands, usually have the unhappiest marriages?

Completely made up, false AND offensive.

Let me ask you a question. If every marriage certificate, came with a pre-nup that stated the following would you sign it?

-Children are the property of both parents, and custody must be shared 50/50, meaning no child support payments. The father must take the children 50% of the time, and pay for their costs while they are with him, and the wife pays her share while they are with her.
-No Fault Divorces are repealed. The only way to get a divorce is by verifiable adultery, verifiable domestic abuse or if the spouse abandons the other.
- No more 50% share of marital assets. Outside of assets like a home, or a investment account clearly marked for the marriage, the wife has no claim on her husbands business accounts.
-Mandatory Paternity Test on all children to protect against cuckoldry. Considering 10% of all children are not biologically related to the father who raises them, men must be protected against male rape.

Nope. For lots of reasons:
a) 50/50 custody is not and should be based on the fact that a child is "property." A child is a human being whose best interests need to be the #1 priority. I would only agree to 50/50 custody if that is what is best for my children at the time. If it is not best that they are at their father's place half the time, then of course he would owe child support. Same thing vice versa, but of course this is all dependent on income and living circumstances as well. If one spouse is disabled or makes significantly less than the other, for example, then of course those things need to be taken into account too. Any man who would sit on his hiney and make a hundred grand a year while his wife struggles on twenty grand a year and thinks he "shouldn't" have to help her provide for their children via child support is acting like a spoiled child himself, plain and simple. What does he care more about, his rights or his children's wellbeing? The problem with your arguments is you're only seeing things in terms of "men's rights", not wellbeing of the child, not taking into account imbalances in society, etc.

b) Not all domestic abuse is going to be verifiable. To require proof is to put people in danger. Not to mention, if two people simply CANNOT get along, you would force them to remain together no matter how much damage they are doing to each other and their children? No, divorce is not good, but it has to be allowed. Sometimes it's the lesser of two evils.

c) A wife having no claim on her husband's business accounts: What of the many families whereby the wife stays home and takes care of the house and children for many years, decreasing her earning abilities with each passing year, while allowing his earning capacity to increase every year? For him to walk away believing that he did that all on his own therefore every penny is his alone is shortsighted and selfish. He did that WITH her help and couldn't have without her sacrifice. Yes, that is in part hers.

d) Mandatory paternity testing is ridiculous. Any man who questions paternity can get a test done. To require it of every person whether they want it or not would be insulting to most women AND their husbands. No need to transfer your general mistrust of women to every parent on the planet. Not to mention, a paternity mistake is not even remotely comparable to rape. For a paternity mistake to even occur, consensual sex had to happen first. That's offensive.

I hope you learn to love and respect women as valuable, equal human beings someday.

 

[mattyb1982]

Understand I am not here to debate women about marriage, since MOST of you will not want to give up the upper hand, and I could hardly blame you. My hope is my opinions will resonate with my christian brothers and help them to make a positive change in their life, have a happy relationship with their woman, and not become another divorce stat.

a) 50/50 custody is not and should be based on the fact that a child is "property." A child is a human being whose best interests need to be the #1 priority. I would only agree to 50/50 custody if that is what is best for my children at the time. If it is not best that they are at their father's place half the time, then of course he would owe child support.

If you feel that the child would not be best served being with the father 50% of the time (going thru a divorce u would hardly be UNBIASED), why does he owe you child support? Your an adult, go out and support your children. If the father has his children take away from because of the corrupt family courts, he should not have to pay a dime to his ex wife. OF COURSE, I am excluding situations where the father doesnt want anything to do with the kids, or actually abused them.

If one spouse is disabled or makes significantly less than the other, for example, then of course those things need to be taken into account too. Any man who would sit on his hiney and make a hundred grand a year while his wife struggles on twenty grand a year and thinks he "shouldn't" have to help her provide for their children via child support is acting like a spoiled child himself, plain and simple.

you really got to love the female shaming convention in this comment. First of all after a divorce his wife is his ex-wife and the husband does not owe her anything, let me repeat myself she has nothing coming to her. If the ex-wife is struggling financially then she must do as a man does ----better her financial situation through hard work and not rely on big government or her ex-husband to solve her financial woes.

What does he care more about, his rights or his children's wellbeing? The problem with your arguments is you're only seeing things in terms of "men's rights", not wellbeing of the child, not taking into account imbalances in society, etc.

it's in the child's best interest to be raised by both a mother and a father and have equal time with both parents. It's also in the child's best interest not to be tossed around like a hockey puck in feminist family courts.

you want to talk about imbalances in society?

Ever since men have allowed feminism to take a foothold in the West, marriage and the family have been eroding.

Not all domestic abuse is going to be verifiable. To require proof is to put people in danger

So whose word are we taking, the woman's? that's not good enough, there have been quite a few studies that have shown that women will make up domestic abuse stories about their husbands to get them out of the house and to take custody of the kids.

Not to mention, if two people simply CANNOT get along, you would force them to remain together no matter how much damage they are doing to each other and their children? No, divorce is not good, but it has to be allowed. Sometimes it's the lesser of two evils.

I know as humans that we'd like to add to the Bible, but your scenario is not a biblically valid reason for divorce.

A wife having no claim on her husband's business accounts: What of the many families whereby the wife stays home and takes care of the house and children for many years, decreasing her earning abilities with each passing year, while allowing his earning capacity to increase every year?

If men were initiating 70% of the divorces I would agree with you, since it's WOW actually women that initiate most of the divorces, MSC edit

For him to walk away believing that he did that all on his own therefore every penny is his alone is shortsighted and selfish. He did that WITH her help and couldn't have without her sacrifice. Yes, that is in part hers.

Sacrifice? Staying home and raising children (which is part of a woman's biological imperative) is now a sacrifice? Listen, a wife unless she has an actual part of her husbands business.....IE....small mom and pop business they both work at, she does not deserve 50%.

Mandatory paternity testing is ridiculous. Any man who questions paternity can get a test done.

It should be mandatory, because by the time the husband had a chance to get the test done, it may be too late. Since many juristictions say that the father on the birth cert is on the hook for the kid regardless of paternity.

Women commit paternity fraud at an alarming rate, which is the equivalent of male rape. Which is funny, because what is it 40% of all rape accusations are false.....

To require it of every person whether they want it or not would be insulting to most women AND their husbands. No need to transfer your general mistrust of women to every parent on the planet. Not to mention, a paternity mistake is not even remotely comparable to rape. For a paternity mistake to even occur, consensual sex had to happen first. That's offensive.

Of course it is equivalent to rape, its taking away 18 plus yrs of the mans life, and thousands of dollars of his money. My mistrust of women would be sad if 1:10 women didnt LIE about the paternity of her child and pass it on as her husbands, in some areas, it's as high as 40%! What do you mean "Paternity Mistake"?

I hope you learn to love and respect women as valuable, equal human beings someday.

MSC edit ... Men and Women are equally sinful, MSC edit I respect Females as a gender, as far it's natural to show common courtesy as a christian brother, but yes I have lost a lot of respect for the female gender here in the west.

 

[mattyb1982]

Paternity fraud? So you are talking about a woman claiming to be pregnant by a man, who really isn't the father?

Then what are you talking about, so we can get on the same page with this discourse.

 

[Conservativation]

Matty, may I ask, what opened your eyes to all these things?

Your points are valid, I'd ever so slightly modify the ones about child custody and support, the rest I pretty much agree with 100%, and the small differences I have are not important.

Most men do not agree with you (or with me), and its only after being clobbered by the blunt instrument of divorce COMBINED with the man having the initiative to then read and study and get informed, that he will start to see reality as it IS....instead of as conventional wisdom says it is.

MSC edit ...

 

[mattyb1982]

Matty, may I ask, what opened your eyes to all these things?


So.....did you get clobbered?

I've always been a pragmatist, analytical person. I grew up with a single mother, not by her choice, my father passed on when I was young. So I raised by a single mother didn't use her sexuality to jump back on the carousel, parade guys in and out of our home, etc etc or use them for their money. When you have that kind of example, and you see how a LOT of single mothers become single mom's -out of wedlock kids, divorce..etc---you lose a lot of respect for them.

Then as a teenager, at church I saw two Christian girls specifically that kind of dispelled the whole girls are more virtuous than boys tripe we're fed.

1. Pastor's Daughter. On the outside everything looked fine, but she always drove home with the Deacon's son in his camaro. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what was going on there.
2. Another girl at church. She was a troubled girl, messing around with boys, her mom wasnt the best influence nor was her dad, had bad influences as friends. She was into me, set it up mutliple times so I would have a chance at messing with her. I didn't want to dip my pen in that ink bottle for all the tea in thailand.
3. Had a cousin who at 18, got drunk , had sex with a very unattractive obese girl, who he has a child with. That got me thinking, Thank God and my mom for raising me right.

I had some work friends who took me to strip clubs once I was legal. I'll be str8 honest, every guy wants to go to one, but I always feel convicted afterwards, and a gentlemens bar isnt a brothel so depending on ur pov its a lot of wasted money depending on why you go there. I bring this up because we are all told women are basically tricked into dancing. Which I can say is a lie, I'm sure there some that were semi forced into, but def not the majority.

This also opened my eyes to the nature of women, that females can use men for their own ends, and are terrific actors. They can make you feel like they care about you, until your wallet is empty.

Also, a pastor's wife taught me how they are not above denying their christian husbands sex. She had issues with migraines, but she took advantage of it to deny her husband relations.

Studying Biblical and Secular History also has given me great wisdom. Feminism was the fall of Rome, and will be of the USA or the Rapture will come first. If you look at the Bible, it really doesn't have a lot of things positive to say about women. Proverbs 31, it says " Do not spend your strength[a] on women, A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies. ".

Which if you follow to it's logical conclusion may teach that most women aren't worth a nickle.

It seems the Bible teaches that women must be under the authority of a man, at all times (either father or husband), or older women (like widows) who teach them how to be proper wives. As we see in modern and ancient cultures, when women are allowed to run around rampant, unchecked it's to their own downfall and to the destruction of the family unit and society as a whole.

I did meet some female christian missionairies who gave me some hope that there are decent women out there, def diamonds in the rough, and u might have to out game a boyfriend or two to get them .

Then of course, I briefly dated a christian single mom she was very pretty. She had a bit of a promiscuis past, so I tested her , to see if she had changed, no not really, so that ended.

And then I found the "Manosphere" on the internet, blogs and forums that specifically explain how and why attraction works, the current state of marriage 2.0, and the vast paternity fraud that is committed against men.

That has really opened my eyes quite a bit.

 

[Romanseight2005]

Which if you follow to it's logical conclusion may teach that most women aren't worth a nickle.

Interesting! So, why is it that if a woman is capable of sinning, just as much as men are, that somehow makes her more sinful, or in need of a man who is JUST AS SINFUL to rule over her??:o

As far as the bible not having good things to say about women, well, let's face it, it doesn't say anything good about men either. A man also is not supposed to trust in his own understanding. So what's your point? If women aren't on some pedistal, or BETTER than men, then somehow that makes them worse than men?? That's faulty and bizarre logic, It sounds like you have the madonna/w..... syndrome.
`

 

[mattyb1982]

Interesting! So, why is it that if a woman is capable of sinning, just as much as men are, that somehow makes her more sinful, or in need of a man who is JUST AS SINFUL to rule over her??:o

Ask God

So what's your point? If women aren't on some pedistal, or BETTER than men, then somehow that makes them worse than men?? That's faulty and bizarre logic, It sounds like you have the madonna/w..... syndrome.
`

my point is women are as good/bad as us guys, and once us men can see that, and change our approach accordingly, we all (women and men) can live a more fulfilled life.

MSC edit ...

 

[devastated]

I must say that this entire post puts forth a very bad image of what being a Christian really means. There is hardly anything positive or encouraging coming out of this thread. There is not much more than complaining. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but please don't act as if it is fact and thrust it upon anyone else. I would be sad to think that a non-christian would read this post and get the wrong idea about Christianity. I think that it is about time that you stop generalising and blaming and complaining! Start loving as Christ did!!!

 

[mattyb1982]

I must say that this entire post puts forth a very bad image of what being a Christian really means. There is hardly anything positive or encouraging coming out of this thread. There is not much more than complaining. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but please don't act as if it is fact and thrust it upon anyone else. I would be sad to think that a non-christian would read this post and get the wrong idea about Christianity. I think that it is about time that you stop generalising and blaming and complaining! Start loving as Christ did!!!

of course of course, being a Christian sadly largely doesn't change male-female relations in the West or biology.

A lot of what I presented in this thread is fact......

Women bringing about 70% of divorces is fact
Women cheat just about much as men is fact
Women defrauding men in 1:10 births is a fact.

.......................................

 

[Conservativation]

I've always been a pragmatist, analytical person. I grew up with a single mother, not by her choice, my father passed on when I was young. So I raised by a single mother didn't use her sexuality to jump back on the carousel, parade guys in and out of our home, etc etc or use them for their money. When you have that kind of example, and you see how a LOT of single mothers become single mom's -out of wedlock kids, divorce..etc---you lose a lot of respect for them.

Then as a teenager, at church I saw two Christian girls specifically that kind of dispelled the whole girls are more virtuous than boys tripe we're fed.

1. Pastor's Daughter. On the outside everything looked fine, but she always drove home with the Deacon's son in his camaro. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what was going on there.
2. Another girl at church. She was a troubled girl, messing around with boys, her mom wasnt the best influence nor was her dad, had bad influences as friends. She was into me, set it up mutliple times so I would have a chance at messing with her. I didn't want to dip my pen in that ink bottle for all the tea in thailand.
3. Had a cousin who at 18, got drunk , had sex with a very unattractive obese girl, who he has a child with. That got me thinking, Thank God and my mom for raising me right.

I had some work friends who took me to strip clubs once I was legal. I'll be str8 honest, every guy wants to go to one, but I always feel convicted afterwards, and a gentlemens bar isnt a brothel so depending on ur pov its a lot of wasted money depending on why you go there. I bring this up because we are all told women are basically tricked into dancing. Which I can say is a lie, I'm sure there some that were semi forced into, but def not the majority.

This also opened my eyes to the nature of women, that females can use men for their own ends, and are terrific actors. They can make you feel like they care about you, until your wallet is empty.

Also, a pastor's wife taught me how they are not above denying their christian husbands sex. She had issues with migraines, but she took advantage of it to deny her husband relations.

Studying Biblical and Secular History also has given me great wisdom. Feminism was the fall of Rome, and will be of the USA or the Rapture will come first. If you look at the Bible, it really doesn't have a lot of things positive to say about women. Proverbs 31, it says " Do not spend your strength[a] on women, A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies. ".

Which if you follow to it's logical conclusion may teach that most women aren't worth a nickle.

It seems the Bible teaches that women must be under the authority of a man, at all times (either father or husband), or older women (like widows) who teach them how to be proper wives. As we see in modern and ancient cultures, when women are allowed to run around rampant, unchecked it's to their own downfall and to the destruction of the family unit and society as a whole.

I did meet some female christian missionairies who gave me some hope that there are decent women out there, def diamonds in the rough, and u might have to out game a boyfriend or two to get them .

Then of course, I briefly dated a christian single mom she was very pretty. She had a bit of a promiscuis past, so I tested her , to see if she had changed, no not really, so that ended.

And then I found the "Manosphere" on the internet, blogs and forums that specifically explain how and why attraction works, the current state of marriage 2.0, and the vast paternity fraud that is committed against men.

That has really opened my eyes quite a bit.

Ok gotcha

I have boiled the whole thing down to whats said in this page I link....that half the folks are not being taught.

Driving the Divorce Rate: Who’s Teaching the Women?

 

[razeontherock]

I think people are fools to get married in this day and age. Adopt a baby if you want to have children to raise. Our society is one of poor-me frauds wanting something for nothing. Women are so, so much better off NOT being tied to a man.

Wait, your basic info says you're married?

 

[razeontherock]

Venting is ok, maybe even beneficial when a guy does it, but this is straight up misogyny:

If you look at the Bible, it really doesn't have a lot of things positive to say about women. Proverbs 31, it says " Do not spend your strength[a] on women, A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies. ".

Which if you follow to it's logical conclusion may teach that most women aren't worth a nickle.

Man, you are twisting and distorting! You need a healthy balance. this is NOT it:

It seems the Bible teaches that women must be under the authority of a man,

You remember that's part of the CURSE, right?

So you have some healing to do after divorce, that's understandable. Hopefully you get this out of your system here and now, and come back to reality.

The OT personifies temptation as a woman. This does NOT = the Bible says women are evil! It also personifies Wisdom as a woman, does that mean all women are smarter than men?

 

[CarrieAnnC]

You see, women have a society now where they can run around and do whatever they want with impunity, it's not good for either gender.

Imagine for a second if men could do whatever they wanted and no one stood up to them? I'll be honest it will be total anarchy....

Both men and women have free will, which comes from God. It is their business to exercise self-control. Both gender may "run around" and this is good that they learn to control themself and not sin. Taking away free will is not an option.

 

[CarrieAnnC]

Ok gotcha

I have boiled the whole thing down to whats said in this page I link....that half the folks are not being taught.

Driving the Divorce Rate: Who’s Teaching the Women?

.. local “battered women’s shelters” (which disseminate more of the same in each community) and many other kinds of organizations that teach women to be independent—independent from husbands.

A battered woman need to be independent from husband who hurt her. This is something I have seen for myself in my community.

 

[mattyb1982]

Both men and women have free will, which comes from God. It is their business to exercise self-control. Both gender may "run around" and this is good that they learn to control themself and not sin. Taking away free will is not an option.

No one is talking about taking away free will at all.

I am talking about bring back Shame and Accountability.

When a man dumped his wife for the Secretary, he was shamed, many times lost economical opportunities. So if it was his desire to get something extra on the side, he would do so with discretion, but not break up the family.

If a wife cheated she was publicly shamed by both men and women, if she divorced even more so, treated as a cancer, as removed from the "club".

MSC edit ... generalizations

 

[mattyb1982]

Venting is ok, maybe even beneficial when a guy does it, but this is straight up misogyny:



Man, you are twisting and distorting! You need a healthy balance. this is NOT it:



You remember that's part of the CURSE, right?

So you have some healing to do after divorce, that's understandable. Hopefully you get this out of your system here and now, and come back to reality.

The OT personifies temptation as a woman. This does NOT = the Bible says women are evil! It also personifies Wisdom as a woman, does that mean all women are smarter than men?

Mr White Knight I did not say women are all evil, The Bible does teach to be very careful around women, and yes it does teach Godly mothers and wives are rare, and they have done some incredible acts throughout history demonstrating their faith in God. Also, let's not forget who ordered John the Baptist's murder?

 

[hijklmnop]

Venting is ok, maybe even beneficial when a guy does it, but this is straight up misogyny:



Man, you are twisting and distorting! You need a healthy balance. this is NOT it:



You remember that's part of the CURSE, right?

So you have some healing to do after divorce, that's understandable. Hopefully you get this out of your system here and now, and come back to reality.

The OT personifies temptation as a woman. This does NOT = the Bible says women are evil! It also personifies Wisdom as a woman, does that mean all women are smarter than men?

ITA, except that he should get this out of his system here and now. I didn't think bashing of an entire gender was allowed on this forum...it shouldn't be...and that's clearly what's happening in this thread.