The Brian Williams Debacle

[Sistrin]

So did Sean Hannity. Who called for his being fired from Fox?

No he didn't.

Brian Williams lied about coming under enemy fire and his helicopter being shot down.

Hillary Clinton lied about coming under fire from enemy snipers while in Bosnia, even though there were pictures of her talking to a little girl on the very tarmac she claimed to have to had run across dodging said fire.

Both of these are lies of the first order, made for some ungodly reason steeped in vanity, hubris, and extreme narcissism.

Being shot at by an armed enemy is not something you misremember, it isn't something you have to wonder about, it isn't something you are unsure of. Being shot at by someone trying to kill you is a memory seared into your brain, not to be confused with someone stating there was sniper fire in the area a few days ago so you may want to walk quickly oh look here is a little girl stop and have your picture taken.

Neither is being in a helicopter crash. I have been in a helicopter crash, therefore I speak from experience when stating being in a helicopter crash is not something you can mistake for some other event. It isn't something you think happened or believe might have happened.

Williams and Clinton both lied about being in armed contact with the enemy. Williams compounded that lie by claiming to have been on a helicopter he wasn't even on.

According to the link provided Hannity voiced his opinion. Quote:

1. Hannity Ignored Overwhelming Evidence To Repeatedly Claim Obama's Policies Have Not Helped Improve The Economy.

Hannity has repeatedly claimed that President Obama's policies have not improved the economy. In fact, numerous economists and independent analysts have noted that many of Obama's policy achievements, such as the stimulus, have benefited the economy: GDP is growing rather than contracting as it was at the end of 2008, and the economy has added millions of jobs. [Media Matters, 1/13/10, 7/14/11, 2/2/12]

This as reported by Media Matters, a source decidedly on the side of the administration. In addition it depends on which figures you chose to promote, ignore, or distort in order to make the claim Obama's policies have improved the economy.

Quote:

9. Hannity Distorted CBO Data To Attack Obama.

Hannity claimed that a January 2012 Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report showed that if Obama were to win a second term, taxes would "go up 30 percent." In fact, the report only stated that taxes would increase at such a rate if all the Bush tax cuts were allowed to expire. [Media Matters, 2/2/12]

Which was exactly the plan of the Obama administration, to let the Bush tax cuts expire.

The Media Matters presentation of so-called Hannity lies in no manner equates to the overt and outrageous lies told by Williams and Clinton, even if it could be shown Hannity lied about anything.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Brian Williams admits that his story of coming under fire while in Iraq was false - The Washington Post

Yes, you've all likely heard of the story by now. It's totally despicable and clearly transparent what his motives were. There was no "misremembering". It's obvious he has no credibility at this point since he's willing to lie about something like this.

Should he be fired? How would this same story be viewed if the person involved was say, Sean Hannity of Fox News?

Er, Fox News went to court and fought for the right to lie to the public. They won.

Google "fox news monsanto court" for more info.

 

[USincognito]

If you think about it, Sean Hannity is actually more credible than Brian Williams because everyone expects Sean to give his own interpretation on things and give his own opinion on issues.

Brian Williams is supposed to give the facts, and he got caught lieing to the public.

Hannity is more credible when he's known to lie and distort constantly? Recently he's been spreading the old myth about Global Cooling in the 70s, last year it was his support of Craven Bundy and who can forget the Obamacare hatchet job where the participants outright lied.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7781495/

 

[USincognito]

It was once scientific consensus that the Earth was flat...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

The idea that the earth was flat was never scientific nor was it ever scientific consensus. The shape of the earth was known by natural philosophers in 200 B.C.E.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

ROTFL ... noting that you took the first political swipe at the opposing party.

Noting further that Hillary blatantly fabricated the BALD-faced lie.

[SARCASM]
It's not Hillary's fault for lying, it's really Republicans who are to blame for having the poor taste to try to somehow imply that lying has a correlation with dishonesty...because after all, there have been republicans who have lied in the past, therefore, democrats should be immune to criticism from people who identify as republicans.
[/SARCASM]

 

[ThatRobGuy]

So did Sean Hannity. Who called for his being fired from Fox?

As another poster mentioned, there's a difference between a legitimate news anchor and a political commentator...both in the description of their job, and in the eyes of the public.

Clearly the public didn't feel Hannity's untruths from the past were as bad as lying about being in a plane that was shot at over a war torn territory...otherwise there would've been the same public outcry.

With high expectations come high standards...

There's a reason why there's no public outcry for a firing of Alex Jones even though he says some pretty wild unfounded things on his radio show...if a legitimate news anchor said anything 1/4 as wild as what Alex says, they'd be fired on the spot.

It's not a double standard, it's a different standard.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Clearly the public didn't feel Hannity's untruths from the past were as bad as lying about being in a plane that was shot at over a war torn territory...otherwise there would've been the same public outcry.

With high expectations come high standards...

There's a reason why there's no public outcry for a firing of Alex Jones even though he says some pretty wild unfounded things on his radio show...if a legitimate news anchor said anything 1/4 as wild as what Alex says, they'd be fired on the spot.

It's not a double standard, it's a different standard.

You're right - it is a different, higher standard for Williams - people expect him to at least TRY to get it right. Hannity's listeners, OTOH, are happy as long as he tells them what they want to hear.

 

[Sistrin]

Hannity's listeners, OTOH, are happy as long as he tells them what they want to hear.

The true mind-numbed robots:

 

[Avid]

It was once scientific consensus that the Earth was flat... Science is not a democracy, it's science...

Man caused climate change is not "settled science," you can't call a vote and declare something settled.

Galileo had to recant his scientific findings before the opposition of the pope. It was rather recently that a pope reversed their position on that bit of science. It took almost 360 years for that to happen.

Consensus Science forces others to accept their view. That is what is happening here.

In 1633, the Inquisition of the Roman Catholic Church forced Galileo Galilei, one of the founders of modern science, to recant his theory that the Earth moves around the Sun.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg13618460.600-vatican-admits-galileo-was-right-.html

At a ceremony in Rome, before the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Pope John Paul II officially declared that Galileo was right.

 

[TerranceL]

Brian Williams admits that his story of coming under fire while in Iraq was false - The Washington Post

Yes, you've all likely heard of the story by now. It's totally despicable and clearly transparent what his motives were. There was no "misremembering". It's obvious he has no credibility at this point since he's willing to lie about something like this.

Should he be fired? How would this same story be viewed if the person involved was say, Sean Hannity of Fox News?

Sean Hannity isn't a reporter, he's a talk host, a giver of opinion. That some people take his word as law makes no difference to that fact.

 

[DaisyDay]

It was once scientific consensus that the Earth was flat...

No, there was not scientific consensus that the Earth was flat.

Science is not a democracy, it's science...

Straw man on the "democracy" bit. Science is repeatable. If the same findings are found by the vast majority of scientists who run the studies, models, etc. them that is scientific consensus.

Man caused climate change is not "settled science," you can't call a vote and declare something settled.

It is declared settled when the evidence becomes overwhelming and contrary hypotheses are falsified or found lacking sufficient evidence.

 

[DaisyDay]

Galileo had to recant his scientific findings before the opposition of the pope. It was rather recently that a pope reversed their position on that bit of science. It took almost 360 years for that to happen.

Consensus Science forces others to accept their view. That is what is happening here.

In 1633, the Inquisition of the Roman Catholic Church forced Galileo Galilei, one of the founders of modern science, to recant his theory that the Earth moves around the Sun.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg13618460.600-vatican-admits-galileo-was-right-.html

At a ceremony in Rome, before the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Pope John Paul II officially declared that Galileo was right.

The Pope and the Vatican have never been scientists. Religion forced the consensus but scientific consensus eventually overcame it as the evidence was repeatedly observed.

 

[DaisyDay]

As another poster mentioned, there's a difference between a legitimate news anchor and a political commentator...both in the description of their job, and in the eyes of the public.

Clearly the public didn't feel Hannity's untruths from the past were as bad as lying about being in a plane that was shot at over a war torn territory...otherwise there would've been the same public outcry.

With high expectations come high standards...

There's a reason why there's no public outcry for a firing of Alex Jones even though he says some pretty wild unfounded things on his radio show...if a legitimate news anchor said anything 1/4 as wild as what Alex says, they'd be fired on the spot.

It's not a double standard, it's a different standard.

You're right.

Neither Hannity nor Hillary are valid comparisons. I don't know what the fallout will be from this but by extension, William's employer has been tarnished.

 

[trunks2k]

The idea that the earth was flat was never scientific nor was it ever scientific consensus. The shape of the earth was known by natural philosophers in 200 B.C.E.

Yep. Eratosthenes had done a pretty good calculation of the circumference of the earth by 200 BCE.

In the US, it's often incorrectly taught that Columbus was the person who "proved" the world was round, and that people didn't want to go on his expedition because they feared falling off the edge of the Earth. Which isn't true, he just incorrectly thought that the circumference of the Earth was much smaller than everyone else did. Lucky for him, he stumbled upon a giant land mass.

 

[Sistrin]

The Pope and the Vatican have never been scientists. Religion forced the consensus but scientific consensus eventually overcame it as the evidence was repeatedly observed.

I guess everyone gets upset when their god is questioned.

Neither Hannity nor Hillary are valid comparisons. I don't know what the fallout will be from this but by extension, William's employer has been tarnished.

After Dan Rather was exposed as having completely fabricated not only the story but the evidence used to support the story attacking George Bush and his service in the National Guard, his brethren within the media made up some award and held a grand gala to present it to him. I expect much the same here, because as the liberal/progressive crowd has proven over and over and over again, lies told, no matter how gross or pathetic or obvious, only matter when they can be used in an attempt to destroy a conservative Republican.

You think his bosses are ashamed Williams told this lie in context of him having lied? No, not at all. If they are angered over this at all, it is only because he got caught. My evidence for this is obvious to anyone willing to think. Williams told this story on multiple occasions over a twelve year period, and no one in his circle ever bothered to verify it was true?

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

Brian Williams admits that his story of coming under fire while in Iraq was false - The Washington Post

Yes, you've all likely heard of the story by now. It's totally despicable and clearly transparent what his motives were. There was no "misremembering". It's obvious he has no credibility at this point since he's willing to lie about something like this.

Should he be fired? How would this same story be viewed if the person involved was say, Sean Hannity of Fox News?

oh please, you think Fox news never lies? honestly, what Brian did was tame by comparison!

 

[ThatRobGuy]

You're right.

Neither Hannity nor Hillary are valid comparisons. I don't know what the fallout will be from this but by extension, William's employer has been tarnished.

Hannity no...Hillary, that's debatable.

To say that those two are in the same boat (as they compare to a news anchor) is to say that the public expectation of a candidate is nothing more than a political commentator...which if that's the case, that says more about our voters than it does about Hillary.

 

[wing2000]

I guess everyone gets upset when their god is questioned.



After Dan Rather was exposed as having completely fabricated not only the story but the evidence used to support the story attacking George Bush and his service in the National Guard, his brethren within the media made up some award and held a grand gala to present it to him. I expect much the same here, because as the liberal/progressive crowd has proven over and over and over again, lies told, no matter how gross or pathetic or obvious, only matter when they can be used in an attempt to destroy a conservative Republican.

You think his bosses are ashamed Williams told this lie in context of him having lied? No, not at all. If they are angered over this at all, it is only because he got caught. My evidence for this is obvious to anyone willing to think. Williams told this story on multiple occasions over a twelve year period, and no one in his circle ever bothered to verify it was true?

....no one is defending his behavior here. And it's a given that our for profit "news organizations" today will go with a popular story without validating the veracity of the information.

 

[DaisyDay]

After Dan Rather was exposed as having completely fabricated not only the story but the evidence used to support the story attacking George Bush and his service in the National Guard, his brethren within the media made up some award and held a grand gala to present it to him.

That's not actually true - Rather did not fabricate the story or the evidence, but he failed spectacularly in his fact-checking. This ruined his career and a couple of others. However, he did have a distinguished career before that debacle and it was for that he was honored.

I expect much the same here, because as the liberal/progressive crowd has proven over and over and over again, lies told, no matter how gross or pathetic or obvious, only matter when they can be used in an attempt to destroy a conservative Republican.

Bush is a conservative Republican? William's lie had nothing to do with destroying anyone. Um, Rather lost his career (we don't know yet what the fallout for Williams will be) while habitual liars on the right continue in theirs as "commentators". How do you explain that?

You think his bosses are ashamed Williams told this lie in context of him having lied? No, not at all. If they are angered over this at all, it is only because he got caught. My evidence for this is obvious to anyone willing to think. Williams told this story on multiple occasions over a twelve year period, and no one in his circle ever bothered to verify it was true?

That is evidence that they trusted him, not that they will not be angered at the betrayal of their trust.

 

[NightHawkeye]

[SARCASM]
It's not Hillary's fault for lying, it's really Republicans who are to blame for having the poor taste to try to somehow imply that lying has a correlation with dishonesty...because after all, there have been republicans who have lied in the past, therefore, democrats should be immune to criticism from people who identify as republicans.
[/SARCASM]

Thanks for the explanation. I was hoping someone here understood and would be able to explain.