The Breath of God.

[JohnRabbit]

Interesting thought - do you believe Adam was indwelled with the Holy Spirit?

No, and the scriptures seem to indicate such.

Another member, Fervent, answered your question in the thread you opened that was closed.

Adam and Eve were created basically spiritually "neutral", in the sense that they neither had a propensity for good or evil. which seems to be suggested in gen. 3:5.
The devil says to Eve:

5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Adam and Eve literally had a "mind change" as indicated in verse 7!

What is interesting is that the two trees in the garden represented the choice for them - the Tree of Life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

When we look at the choices, it really boils down to living God's way or Satan's way, which is what the trees represented (why else would God allow the devil to be there in the first place).

Now, look at what Eve said in gen. 3:3,
3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”

Obviously, that tree represented the way that leads to death.

On the other hand, in gen. 3:22, God says:
22 ..., “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

This tree clearly represented God's Holy Spirit because to live forever one must have God's Holy Spirit!

Ergo, Adam and Eve did not have God's Holy Spirit.

 

[JohnRabbit]

I hear ya! But, the breath IS the life of every living thing on earth.

The scriptures seems to differ from what you're saying!

In the book of Leviticus 17 God says:

10 ‘And whatever man of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell among you, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person who eats blood, and will cut him off from among his people. 11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.

14 for it is the life of all flesh. Its blood sustains its life. Therefore I said to the children of Israel, ‘You shall not eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.’

Now see if these verses make more sense to you:

Ephesians 1:7
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Hebrews 9:14
14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 9:22
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

1 John 1:7
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

And there are more verse that intimate the same.

Remember, Jesus gave His life through the shedding of His blood!

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

The scriptures seems to differ from what you're saying

In the book of Leviticus 17 God says:

10 ‘And whatever man of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell among you, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person who eats blood, and will cut him off from among his people. 11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.

14 for it is the life of all flesh. Its blood sustains its life. Therefore I said to the children of Israel, ‘You shall not eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.’

Now see if these verses make more sense to you:

Ephesians 1:7
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Hebrews 9:14
14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 9:22
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

1 John 1:7
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

And there are more verse that intimate the same.

Remember, Jesus gave His life!

I tell you what. Stop breathing then and get back with me.
Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I tell you what. Stop breathing then and get back with me.
Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

When Jesus Peter and Paul raised the dead there is no reference to breathing into them.

Human breath and the Spirit of God are very different.

Lazarus breathed again because he was first raised from a decomposing state by the power of the Spirit.

 

[JohnRabbit]

I tell you what. Stop breathing then and get back with me.
Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

I hear ya!
[Staff Edit]

But what's on the table is what you said:
the breath IS the life of every living thing on earth.

and what God said:
for the life of all flesh is its blood

I think I'll go with what God says!

 

[Carl Emerson]

Just to mention that there was a Pagan practice of drinking the blood of an animal to gain the animals characteristics. It was known that the spirit of the animal was in the blood. This is why the practice was expressly forbidden in the Jerusalem Council because it resulted in internal spiritual contamination within and among believers. Same as fornication, same as eating food sacrificed ritually.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Just to mention that there was a Pagan practice of drinking the blood of an animal to gain the animals characteristics. It was known that the spirit of the animal was in the blood. This is why the practice was expressly forbidden in the Jerusalem Council because it resulted in internal spiritual contamination within and among believers. Same as fornication, same as eating food sacrificed ritually.

Thanks for the tidbit. You have bestowed information that of which I was unaware.

 

[Fervent]

I've never heard of this.

However, the greek word for spirit is pneuma and one of it's translations in addition to "spirit" is "breath". Additionally God "breathed" into Adam and he became a living being. So clearly there is some connection with breath and spirit. All that being said, it is unsurprising that some would take that to an unhealthy extreme... it happens with everything.

The Hebrew "ruach" also translates as both "spirit" and "breath" and also "wind." But this is because of something about ancient thinking that has been lost to time, in that they are all linked together through invisibility. Today we think of breath in a bit of a scientific manner-i.e. the physical exchange of gasses-but this isn't how breath was conceived of in the ancient mind. The common idea is that there is nothing substantial-physically- to "spirit" nor "breath." So the "breath" and "spirit" were both a common mystery, now we've removed a bit of the mystery from breathing since we have a physical explanation.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

[Staff Edited Quote]
Maybe. But I am filled with the Holy Spirit of God who understands all things of God. Him I trust.

I think I'll go with what God says!

That is always best.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

When Jesus Peter and Paul raised the dead there is no reference to breathing into them.

Human breath and the Spirit of God are very different.

Lazarus breathed again because he was first raised from a decomposing state by the power of the Spirit.

I thought you understood the neither here nor there (plexus) of the human spirit. Yes the human spirit and the Holy Spirit are very different. The human spirit is dead until it is regenerated by the Holy Spirit when we are born again.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Maybe. But I am filled with the Holy Spirit of God who understands all things of God. Him I trust.

That is always best.

I agree.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I thought you understood the neither here nor there (plexus) of the human spirit. Yes the human spirit and the Holy Spirit are very different. The human spirit is dead until it is regenerated by the Holy Spirit when we are born again.

Not so sure the human spirit is dead before salvation.

In Romans 1 God speaks to the human spirit of the unsaved and their response is basis for His judgement.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Not so sure the human spirit is dead before salvation.

In Romans 1 God speaks to the human spirit of the unsaved and their response is basis for His judgement.

So what part of us is regenerated when we are born again?

 

[Carl Emerson]

So what part of us is regenerated when we are born again?

I think this varies between individuals.

The most important aspect of being born again is the matter of a change of ownership and identity.

We become a son or daughter of God.

Some get a lot of regeneration in one lump and some don't.

To explain - the model I usually communicate is from Watchman Nee who devoted much time to the topic.

So I speak of body, soul and spirit.

The soul is the mind and emotions and will.

The human spirit has 3 parts - conscience, intuition, and the God space for the Holy Spirit.

So the born again experience results in permenant indwelling and change of ownership. Simultaneoulsy there is regeneration in both soul and spirit but the degree differs between believers. Sanctification then kicks in as we progressively become more like Christ as we yield to the work of the Spirit within.

This is a tricky area to discuss as the scripture is light on facts and heavy on the mystery of man's makeup.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I think this varies between individuals.

The most important aspect of being born again is the matter of a change of ownership and identity.

We become a son or daughter of God.

Some get a lot of regeneration in one lump and some don't.

To explain - the model I usually communicate is from Watchman Nee who devoted much time to the topic.

So I speak of body, soul and spirit.

The soul is the mind and emotions and will.

The human spirit has 3 parts - conscience, intuition, and the God space for the Holy Spirit.

So the born again experience results in permenant indwelling and change of ownership. Simultaneoulsy there is regeneration in both soul and spirit but the degree differs between believers. Sanctification then kicks in as we progressively become more like Christ as we yield to the work of the Spirit within.

This is a tricky area to discuss as the scripture is light on facts and heavy on the mystery of man's makeup.

I agree wit what you posted here. But do you mind sharing what you understand scripture to mean when it says
Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

 

[topher694]

Not so sure the human spirit is dead before salvation.

In Romans 1 God speaks to the human spirit of the unsaved and their response is basis for His judgement.

That doesn't mean the spirit He is speaking to is alive.

 

[JohnRabbit]

That doesn't mean the spirit He is speaking to is alive.

I agree.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I agree wit what you posted here. But do you mind sharing what you understand scripture to mean when it says
Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

I think the meaning is referring to ultimate destination - He changed our path. Towards death to towards life.

But also it refers to receiving spiritual life. The imperishable seed planted within us.

 

[JohnRabbit]

I think the meaning is referring to ultimate destination - He changed our path. Towards death to towards life.

But also it refers to receiving spiritual life. The imperishable seed planted within us.

I think he says what you say here in verse 5!

 

[Carl Emerson]

That doesn't mean the spirit He is speaking to is alive.

Yes it does, the dead can't hear.

He judges them on account of what they chose to ignore, from seeing and hearing evidence of Him in what He created.

Otherwise how could He judge if He didn't make it known to them.

Dead folks dont know nuttin.

These folks were alive and refused to acknowledge God.