The Book of Jasher

Ajax 777 said:

Well, I say Jasher is a book which no serious disciple of Christ should be absent from studying. Along with the Didache, I think it ought be required reading.

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I agree. I also have a list of other things that ought to be required reading.

Ajax 777 said:

To any here who have read the Book of Jasher,
and especially those who have begun to debate it
in the other thread dedicated to the Book of Enoch,
please share your reproofs, questions, insight, research,
or any other relevant data pertaining to the authenticity
of the Book of Jasher here, so that the other thread
about the Book of Enoch may avoid derailment.

To start, I'd just like to say that I have read Jasher
multiple times and gone through it with a fine-toothed comb;
it confirms many things in Scripture and provides
a far greater depth of detail to many great events
written of in the recognized Western canon,
such as the account of Abraham's and Isaac's
journey to Mt. Moriah, and all that happened on the trip there.

I have a hard time reading the Jasher account of
the faith of Abraham throughout all of that
without getting misty-eyed...

But I will leave the academic side of this discussion
to the more willing participants.

Please, everyone, feel free to share your thoughts.
All I ask is that everyone endeavor to keep it civil.

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As someone who accepts the Book of Enoch because of the evidence which connects it through textual history and archaeology with the book quoted by Jude, it never ceases to amaze me how uncritically proponents of the Book of Jasher accept it despite the lact of textual history and archaeology to link it to the book mentioned in the Old Testament.

Isn't it the case, the only textual evidence for the book is from the 18th century AD? No mention of it in the Dead Sea Scolls, no early Christian writer who claimed to have a copy of it, no mention of it in New Testament times... I feel justified in doubting its authenticity, and and feel those who accept its authenticity need to bring forth the proofs for trusting its origins.

Please, no one tell me it 'agrees with the Bible'. That may be a good thing, but taken by itself, that is NOT evidence for accepting the book's being the authentic descendant of the book mentioned in the Old Testament.

Ajax 777 said:

Well, I say Jasher is a book which no serious disciple of Christ should be absent from studying. Along with the Didache, I think it ought be required reading.

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what is the book of Jasher, my friend?

Thank you kindly.

Ajax 777 said:

...Well, see, I don't recall stating that I was poised to take the witness stand in the court of your personal academic internal concurrence. In fact, if you'll be so thorough as to fully read my post you quoted, you'll see I said I'd leave the intellectual reasoning portion of any discussion of the veracity of this book to anyone who wished to engage in that sort of discussion. So, before you start declaring to everybody that I have no "evidence," please consider that I have already stated I have no interest in offering you any.

Believe what you want. But if you wish to challenge my decision to enjoy
reading this book or my acceptance of it in whole or in part, then kindly do as you have been done unto and keep it to yourself.

And I mean all this in a reasonably nice way. This thread is almost three years old. I'm too tired to mess with this. Argue with somebody else, please.

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I'm sorry you feel singled out.

I never intended to lay down the gauntlet for you.

I made a simple observation, an opinion. You can say 'keep your opinions to yourself', but I can choose to disregard your command.

My observation stands unabated without knowing your personal convictions on this subject. I continue to observe... as someone who accepts the Book of Enoch because of the evidence which connects it through textual history and archaeology with the book quoted by Jude, it never ceases to amaze me how uncritically proponents of the Book of Jasher accept it despite the lack of textual history and archaeology to link it to the book mentioned in the Old Testament.

Isn't it the case, the only textual evidence for the book is from the 18th century AD? No mention of it in the Dead Sea Scolls, no early Christian writer who claimed to have a copy of it, no mention of it in New Testament times... I feel justified in doubting its authenticity, and and feel those who accept its authenticity need to bring forth the proofs for trusting its origins.

Please, no one tell me it 'agrees with the Bible'. That may be a good thing, but taken by itself, that is NOT evidence for accepting the book's being the authentic descendant of the book mentioned in the Old Testament.

Ajax 777 said:

I have no problem with you sharing your opinions in a non-volatile way.

By all means, feel free to discuss them. I personally, however, am not currently emotionally prepared to engage in such debate for "air superiority." Like I said....I'm wearied. Maybe one of the other posters here will indulge you.

Happy debating.

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Yeah, I agree. I weary of debate too.

Honestly, I do not expect anyone to come forward with rational proofs of the textual history of Jasher. There aren't any I can find and I don't expect anyone to surprise me.

However, if someone comes forward and says they know of even a scrap of truly ancient evidence that would link the currently availble book by that name with the one mentioned in the Bible, I would be happy and pleased. I want to accept it, but my critical thinking process prevents me as of now.

The BOOK OF JASHER
is
a HISTORICAL BOOK

Before one accepts the book of Jasher, one should make sure 'which' book of Jasher... Like Enoch, there are fake ones out there... Enoch 2, Enoch 3, Secrets of Enoch, are false books...
Enoch 1 is the one quoted by Jude...

There are three books called "The Book of Jasher", which are entirely different books. One is a Hebrew treatise on ethics, an obvious fraud. Another is an easily detected fraud, published in 1751, which claims to have been translated into English by Flaccus Albinus Alcuinus.

It is still in print, make sure it is not that one. It is sometimes called Pseudo-Jasher to distinguish it from the third, the real Book of Jasher. The legitimate Hebrew document, that is the Book of Jasher, is the one that I will be discussing.

Titus destroyed Jerusalem in AD 70. At that time, a man named Sidrus discovered a hidden library complete and a man hiding there. He had mercy on the man and took him and the books to his Seville, Spain, then called Hispalis.

The Jewish college at Cordova, Spain, kept the document...who finally had the book printed in Hebrew in Venice in 1625.

It was translated into English by Mr. Samuel of Liverpool, England. At the same time, the pseudo Jasher was being translated, and confusion over which was real, which was fake, made many shy from the real, fearing it was the pseudo one.

By 1833, the proof that the pseudo ones were false were circulating. Some shied away from the book, the real one, fearing it was the one referred to... That fear still exists today in many circles.

Because of the fear of the book, Samuel sold his translation to Mordecai M. Noah, a New York publisher, and it was published there in 1840.

It was the first English translation of the Book of Jasher ever published.

Hebrew scholars have affirmed that the translation is excellent and very faithful to the original Hebrew.

Ginzberg, in his collection, “Legends fo the Jews”, quotes from it freely, and it is listed in Jewish encyclopedias as an authentic source. Some do think that it was written in Spain during the 12th century. They think that it was taken from the Midraash, that quoted from the real book of Jasher. This may be true. For the book of Jasher is not a book of the Bible, nor claims to be. It was a historical book, not a Biblical book, when Joshua and Samuel referred to it in the Bible. It therefore is not protected by God, and changes could have been made to it, without His protection. We have only one manuscript from which to make translation, not many thousands as we have of the Bible, to verify its adherence to it not being added to, or parts removed.

We do know that many European forms fo the name were used in Jasher, so the names were updated in the 12th or 13th centuries.
Our Bibles have the same sort of thing done. “Yeshua’ has become ‘Jesus’, “Mariam” has become “Mary”. We don’t seem upset at the more modern versions of names being in our translations.

I do believe that it was translated from its original form, with more modern names inserted then. It is a history book, and the history of it shows marvelous agreement with the Bible, so other changes do not seem to have been made.

The book is a ‘history’ book, and is not Scripture. We have the book of Josephus, which is also a ‘history book. We have the Encyclopedia Britannica, we have many books to which we look to find information. This book is a valuable source, for it is a book of history authored in the time of Moses. I have studied it, made a commentary on it, comparing it to the Bible, verifying if it agrees in facts with the Bible or not. It does. I find it very valuable as a history book.

This book claims to be a historical book. I & II Samuel are history books, I & II Kings are also... and I & II Chronicles are also. Can we find apparent discrepancies in those? Yes, we can. Why? Because the number of horses in Solomon’s stable probably varied each year, so the number does not need to be the same in one book as the other... LOL When I studied the Bible’s historical books, I had to figure out some ‘apparent’ but not ‘real’ discrepancies. When I studied Jasher, there are a few that needed study to verify their accuracy.

When Moses did the research for the Pentateuch, and he did, for he refers to 11 other books he got information from, ... at that time, the author of Jasher’s book seems to have used the same sources, and recorded in more detail the history of events. So, the short scenarios in Genesis about Abraham, have far more detail given in Jasher. Whoever Jasher was, he was obviously working with Moses on those previous writings. The Book of Jasher ends its historical information, shortly after Moses’ death, while Joshua was still living.

We call Deuteronomy to be one of the books of Moses. Yet, chapter 34 of Deuteronomy records up to 30 days at least after Moses died. Who wrote that part? Joshua, Jasher? So, the Book of Jasher was written by a scribe, one who worked with Moses, while Moses compiled writings from Abraham, Noah, etc..

Joshua trusted it, and he lived during the time it was being written. So, he knew the author and the research he had done.

Samuel still trusted its historical teachings many years later.

The translator of the 1840 version of this book, said this book is a ‘”venerable monument of antiquity, ... ‘ He also stated that the internal evidence is ‘sufficient to prove it a copy of the book referred to in Joshua 10 and II Samuel 1.” This internal evidence can be studied, verified, and shown. The same way the finders of the Books of the Law probably verified those books when they found them after being lost for perhaps as long as 100 years.

II Samuel 1:18 refers to Jasher. Is there a discrepancy in that?
There is an apparent one.
“And he (David) bade them to teach the children of Judah to use the bow, behold, it is written in the Book of Jasher.”

The Book of Jasher ends in Joshua’s day, how could it refer to David teaching the tribe of Judah to use the bow?

That is a discrepancy, an apparent error... But not an error in Jasher... this apparent error is in II Samuel. How could Samuel quote from something not in Jasher? Some have wanted to throw Samuel’s book out due to that ‘error’... How can we trust it? How can it be the inerrant Word of God? Some who may look for some little discrepancy in Jasher, so they can throw it out, need to look at Samuel’s book and treat it the same!!! LOL

But, to straighten out even those, it is not a discrepancy. In Jasher 56:9, it is said that Judah will learn the use of the bow, and David, obviously knew that, obviously had read the Book of Jasher, and instructed some to teach Judah’s tribe to use the bow. Samuel tells us that David was following the Book of Jasher in his orders to have the tribe of Judah get such teaching.

So, there is not error in Samuel... As some have thought, and not error in Jasher, as some would hope... LOL

Samuel read Jasher, David knew of Jasher’s words... We call that a confirmation... not a discrepancy!


What does the name “Jasher” mean? Some believe it is the name of the author. It may be. Yet, that name, other than to refer to the book, is not found.

The Hebrew word ‘jasher’ means ‘straight, right, upright’. One translator called the book ‘The Book of the Upright’.

The Hebrew edition of the 1625 version felt that all the events listed were in ‘straight’ order, chronological. The translators of the 1840 version felt that the events listed in Jasher were ‘upright’, i..e. true and honest.

If Jasher is not the author, who is? Could it have been Moses, who researched all the earlier writings of Abraham, etc ? Could it have been a researching scribe who was helping him? Could it have been Joshua, who finished Deuteronomy for Moses, and wrote the Book of Joshua? We don’t know, and perhaps will not know until we reach heaven.

Josephus, in the first century A.D. refers to the Book of Jasher. He seems to agree with the idea that it refers to the uprightness of the facts, and the people whose history is recorded.

Josephus said:
“That by this book are to be understood certain records kept in some safe place on purpose, giving an account of what happened among the Hebrews from year to year, and called Jasher, or the upright, on account of the fidelity of the annals.”

There is evidence that the Hebrews did not consider the Book of Jasher to be Scripture. They did honor it, preserve it, read it, trust it, but it was considered a ‘history’ book, not a Scripture.

When Ptolemy, king of Egypt, requested to have a copy of the Jewish holy books, the Hebrews would not give them the Holy Scriptures, for he was a gentile. So, they sent him a copy of Jasher. It is said that Ptolemy prized it greatly. When he discovered it was not their holy law, he confronted them. They, then agreed to translate their Scriptures into Greek, and this is the origin of thte Septuagint.

In ‘The Legends of the Jews’ by Ginzberg, 1912, the entire account of Enoch and his ascension is from Jasher 3:2, 38. (Volume 1 pp 127-140.)

The end note of Ginzberg (vol 5, pp 157-158) assumes that Jasher is a compilation of earlier books by the Genesis patriarchs, and gives them credit for information about themselves, and only when the account cannot be found elsewhere, is Jasher given as the primary source.

The Book of Jasher corrects an error, one made by archbishop James Ussher. From Jasher, we learn that Noah and Abraham
were contemporaries. Yet, Ussher had calculated, using the Bible’s description, that Abraham had been born 60 years later than he had. Abraham, in Jasher, is seen, while young, staying with Noah for a time. This helps explain how Abraham came to the faith we see shown in him, for he lived with one (for a short time) that had seen the great mercy and power of God.

From Genesis 11:32, most commentators had erroneously dated the birth of Abraham to sixty years later than it actually was.
Commentators dated his birth at around 2008 A.C.A. (after the creation of Adam). Yet, in reality, it was in 1948 A.C.A.

The cause of the error was that Abraham’s departure from Haran, at age 75 is recorded near the description of the death of Terah,
at 205. Those two events were not that close, as we find in Jasher. So, the Bible was not wrong, it was mankind’s misinterpretation of what it said.

THE ‘TOLEDOTH’ RECORDS were sources for Moses writing the Pentateuch, and according to Jewish records, Jasher's material came from the historical books called 'toledoth'.


Some have assumed that the first books written by Godly men were the books of the Pentateuch, written by Moses. This is not confirmed in Scripture, for Enoch’s book it quoted, and a number of other books are referred to.

Moses and Jasher had other books from which to gather material, in relating history far previous to their times. Where did Jasher get the information for the first part of this book? The latter part of the exodus from Egypt would have been contemporary with the author, but the first part would have been history for him. The same would be true for Moses, where did he get the information for Genesis?

There are several possibilities. For either Moses or Jasher, the material could have come by:
direct revelation from God...
traditions, passed down by word of mouth...
written records from previous authors...


In Genesis there is some vital clues, and this may help with the understanding of how Jasher was also compiled.

The Hebrew word "toledoth" is used in Genesis. It means "records of origin" but has been translated usually - "generations"... Let us examine the use of such a word, and we will find a plausible explanation.

Genesis 2:4
"These are the generations (records of origin) of the heavens and the earth..." (1:1-2:4)

Genesis 5:1
"These are the generations (records of origin) of Adam..." (2:4b-5:1)

Genesis 6:9
"These are the generations (records of origin) of Noah..." (5:1b-6:9)

Genesis 10:1
"These are the generations (records of origin) of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth..." (6:9b-10:1)

Genesis 11:10
"These are the generations (records of origin) of Shem..." (10:1b-11:10)

Genesis 11:27
"These are the generations (records of origin) of Terah..." (11:10b-11:20)

Genesis 25:12
"These are the generations (records of origin) of Ishmael..." (11:27-25:19)

Genesis 25:19
"These are the generations (records of origin) of Isaac, Abraham's son..."
(25:19-37:2)

Genesis 36:1
"... generations (records of origin) of Esau, who is Edom..." (37:2-end)

Genesis 36:9
"...generations (records of origin) of Esau, the father of the Edomites in Mt. Seir..." (37:2-end)

Genesis 37:2
"... generations (records of origin) of Jacob..."


Thus, there seems to be written records of, at least, eleven different source books from which Moses drew information. With the help of the Holy Spirit, Moses compiled the book of Genesis. The same books and perhaps others were available to the author of Jasher.



The first five books of the Bible are called the "Pentateuch". This is from the Greek words "penta" (which means "five"), and "teuchos" (which means "books"). These five books were recorded by Moses.

The names we have given each of them are:

Genesis (tells the 'beginnings' of this creation)

Exodus (tells of their 'going out' of Egypt)

Leviticus (from the name of the tribe of Levi, and contains the special laws for the Levites)

Numbers (tells how Israel was numbered, and tells of their wanderings in the wilderness)

Deuteronomy (this is the repeated law, and an address by Moses shortly before his death).



Jasher and Moses had "records of origin" (toledoth) with which to find the facts of the first book of the Bible, but the part of the Pentateuch, and the part of Jasher, that records the exodus from Egypt, both authors were alive and living in such time.

The book of Exodus, and the part of Jasher that accounts the same time period, are a record of divine redemption... They record how an enslaved people gain their deliverance from the enemy. In typology, the events tell how we may also be delivered from sin).

The book of Exodus is a book of sacrifice, with chapter 12 telling of the sacrifice of the Passover lamb, chapter 24 shows the sacrifice sealing the covenant, and chapter 29 tells of the sacrifices of consecration of the priesthood.

The theology of worship is shown in this time frame, and begins with the revelation of the tabernacle of worship. This part of Jasher, and the events within Exodus, give the Biblical ethics demanded by God, with the revelation of ten commandments in chapters 21-23. The priesthood is introduced, and the theology of covenant relationship is shown herein.


The message of Exodus, and the same portion of Jasher, is:

1. Redemption is necessary, because of the ruin of man...

2. Redemption is possible by blood alone...

3. Worship, in order to be acceptable, must be in divine order...

4. The opening scenes of this period are darkness, gloom, slavery, abuse, and death... but the ending pictures are the SHEKINAH presence of God.

5. The author of Exodus is mostly Moses (the part of Moses' death was probably added by Joshua). He was educated in Pharaoh's palace, and was taught the history, science, and journalism of such teachers...


The author of Jasher was likely an educated Levite scribe... We have no firm word on this, but the internal evidence certainly points toward that... I would surmise that this person was working closely with Moses on his compilation of facts, and search of the written records of the past... While Moses worked on his books, this person did a written record of his own.

murjahel said:

The BOOK OF JASHER
is
a HISTORICAL BOOK

Before one accepts the book of Jasher, one should make sure 'which' book of Jasher...

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I've read this post before, Murjahel. You don't cite any ancient sources however.

We have an ancient verifiable chain of reference to the Book of Enoch, from Arhaeology, Church writers, and before them Jewish writers. It is not enough to have internal evidence in a book that is persuasive. Though internal evidence can be helpful, it cannot be what we base any textual credibility. It is external evidence which settles The Book of Enoch of today as the same book used by Jude. There is no external evidence to The Book of Jasher. Suddenly, writers in the 19th century say they have it but don't produce their copy for others to have a look at.

Since Jewish encyclopedic books through the ages confirm the book of Jasher, since Josephus refers to it as being existent still in his time, since at the fall of Jerusalem a copy was taken away to preserve it... etc etc... we have record to know of its true existence far after Joshua and Samuel quoted from it.

The reference in Samuel seemed to lay that whole Biblical book open to charges of error or fraud... but this Book of Jasher explains what looked like error in Samuel...

Proof after proof is available for examination...

another one is this...

if you ever studied Egyptian history as supplied in our culture, one has a hard time ever finding when Moses would have delivered Israel... There is no hard proof, no Egyptians wanted to record that event that shamed them... so, we have the Bible... and it does not identify which Pharaoh, which woman was that took Moses to raise, etc... we have no clear authority to date and identify the Egyptian characters in Exodus....

Jasher, if legitimate, could help us... and identify which Pharaoh, etc...

here is what we learn from Jasher, and identifying with the names now given by historical records...


The Pharaoh of Egypt when Joseph was brought to the land was Ahmose I. This was the Pharaoh who drove the Hyksos from the land, and ruled from Thebes.

Then came Thutmose I, followed by the II, and finally by Thutmose III.

Thutmose II had a sister known as Queen Hatsheput, who later married her brother... i.e. Thutmose III.

Amenhotep III (known as "Melol" in Jasher 77:3) ruled during the time that Moses was born. He was married to Queen Tiy (known as Aparanith in Jasher 76:47 to 77:6).

They had a daughter named "Bathia". Bathia was the one who found baby Moses in the water, and took him home to raise him (Jasher 68:32, 80:49).

Melol and Aparanith (Amenhotep and Tiy) had three sons and two daughters.

Othri was the first born (and he was severely mentally handicapped.

Adikam was the second born.

Morion was born last.



The two daughters were:
Bathia
and Acuzi.


Adikam was a midget, and stood in adulthood only "one cubit and a span" (which is 27 inches tall). He was very ugly, and had a beard that reached to the soles of his feet (Jasher 77:6).


History records this Pharaoh as Amenhotep IV, who changed his name to Akhaton. He was married to Nofretete (known as Gedulah in Jasher).


The religion at the time had been polytheistic, but Adikam began a monotheistic religion which was likely a return to the religion of Job... it had been contaminated by the polytheistic religion of the Egyptians... but Job had worshipped the true Jehovah God. Since Job preached a God Who would someday come to the land of the East, the direction of the rising sun, the symbol of the god that Ahikam worshipped was the sun disk. The name Akhnaton means "Aton be pleased." Since Moses and Adikam had been raised in the same household, Moses and Bathia probably had much influence upon him.

This greatly explains the dhange in religion of the Egyptians at that time, and the exodus of the Jews, explains the sudden reversal back to the former gods worshipped.

To believe in one God, is not enough... A relationship with the one true God is necessary. This Pharaoh was the one who kept hardening his heart from the plagues and instructions given through Moses, the prophet. Like many today in religious circles, they have a head knowledge of God, but they love power, fame, riches, and prestige too much to truly give lordship to God...

Adikam moved the capital of Egypt from Thebes to Tell -el-Amarna. He was the Pharaoh who led the Egyptian army against the fleeing Hebrew people. He actually ruled for longer than four years, but following the death of his sick father, he ruled only four years... His father had been so sick that he ruled some years while his father lay suffering.

God judged the army of the Egyptians, and there was not one left alive... except this Pharaoh. Jasher 81:40-41 tells us that an "angel" took Adikam and carried him to the land of Nineveh ( a distant province of Egypt) and he ruled a long time there as its viceroy.

The Bible does not disagree with the statement that this Pharaoh survived... in fact, if the wording is carefully noted in Exodus, we see that it was the army of Pharaoh which was totally annihilated... The Pharaoh finally realized that Jehovah was the one true God, and gave Him worship... therefore God had mercy upon him.

Exodus 14:28
"...and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them, there remained not so much as one of them..."

So, of the 'host of Pharaoh' there remained not one of them, but of Pharaoh himself, we have no clear statement in the Bible of what happened to him. Jasher clarifies that.

Following this great destruction of the Egyptian army, the land of Egypt was devastated. Many adult males survived, but none were Egyptian. There were many foreigners in Egypt in those days. A general named Harmhab reigned for a while until the 19th dynasty could be set up when Ramses I came to power with his son Seti I.


During this unsettling time in Egypt, King Shubbiluiuma of the Hittites took northern Syria from Egypt, Ahikam ruled from Nineveh (transplanted by the angel of God)... History records that the Habiru (known to us as the Hebrews) invaded Palestine (as we know from the book of Joshua).


Egypt returned to the former polytheism, and the priests of Amon aided Harmhab in his interim rule. The capital was returned to Thebes.

So, the vagueness of the Bible leaves historical void of understanding of these things... but when Jasher is compared to that history, now we see the WHEN, the WHO, and the WHY of what history records. The Egyptian history leaves out the Jewish role, the Bible leaves out the Egyptian names, and we are left historically with a void of understanding... yet, when we read Jasher, now the voids are filled in, and history and the Bible are proven to be in agreement.

Jasher is a valuable history book.... I wondered for years as to 'which pharaoh it was, how and when in history did the exodus occur... theologians guess and guess, and if you read ten theologians and their ideas, you will probably have 10 variations.... but to take a look in Jasher, and it becomes clear, it harmonizes with history, it explains the 'whys' of many historical events, and it proves the Bible is harmonious with history....

murjahel said:

Since Jewish encyclopedic books through the ages confirm the book of Jasher

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Please cite an example of one or more (existing) ancient Jewish encyclopedic books which does so

murjahel said:

since Josephus refers to it as being existent still in his time

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Please tell us where in Josephus we can read this

murjahel said:

since at the fall of Jerusalem a copy was taken away to preserve it

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Please tells us where we can read this from a primary source or from a translation of a primary source. If you can, these would be three sources which corroborate your statements.

SummaScriptura said:

Please cite an example of one or more (existing) ancient Jewish encyclopedic books which does soPlease tell us where in Josephus we can read thisPlease tells us where we can read this from a primary source or from a translation of a primary source. If you can, these would be three sources which corroborate your statements.

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see post number 110 for all the answers... if that is not enough, see your own answer in post 108...

not here to debate either... you are welcome to disbelief if you choose... it is a historical book that is harmonious... you can think it written in 2013 if you want, it is still accurate, harmonious to the Bible either way... or you can offer proof of its non-harmonious nature.... what is your proof?

murjahel said:

see post number 110 for all the answers... if that is not enough, see your own answer in post 108...

not here to debate either... you are welcome to disbelief if you choose... it is a historical book that is harmonious... you can think it written in 2013 if you want, it is still accurate, harmonious to the Bible either way... or you can offer proof of its non-harmonious nature.... what is your proof?

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But nothing in post 110 cites anything before the 17th century, and there its all secondary unattributed sources.

I can't say I'm not disappointed with your answer, but I'm not surprised either.

I have your Enoch book. There too you say many interesting things which would be great if true, but you never cite sources so the reader is left with a choice... either file your book under interesting but unverifiable, or, just take your word for it.

brinny said:

it states the sun, moon, and stars revolve around the earth?

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Yes, as does All mention of it from Genesis to Revelation.
Jos 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
The heavens are the "circle of the earth", in which the sun runs its race like a giant...Psalm 18/Douay Rheims, but Psalm 19/AV (I prefer the Douay Rheims on this one as it translates correctly -from the Latin Vulgate/translated from Septuagint/from the Hebrew and without bias of Galileo's false science so called) the truth of the created tabernacle of God being "set in the sun").

[1] Unto the end. A psalm for David. [2] The heavens shew forth the glory of God, and the firmament declareth the work of his hands. [3] Day to day uttereth speech, and night to night sheweth knowledge. [4] There are no speeches nor languages, where their voices are not heard. [5] Their sound hath gone forth into all the earth: and their words unto the ends of the world.
[6] He hath set his tabernacle in the sun: and he, as a bridegroom coming out of his bride chamber, Hath rejoiced as a giant to run the way: [7] His going out is from the end of heaven, And his circuit even to the end thereof: and there is no one that can hide himself from his heat.