The Book of Jasher

[Ajax 777]

To any here who have read the Book of Jasher,
and especially those who have begun to debate it
in the other thread dedicated to the Book of Enoch,
please share your reproofs, questions, insight, research,
or any other relevant data pertaining to the authenticity
of the Book of Jasher here, so that the other thread
about the Book of Enoch may avoid derailment.

To start, I'd just like to say that I have read Jasher
multiple times and gone through it with a fine-toothed comb;
it confirms many things in Scripture and provides
a far greater depth of detail to many great events
written of in the recognized Western canon,
such as the account of Abraham's and Isaac's
journey to Mt. Moriah, and all that happened on the trip there.

I have a hard time reading the Jasher account of
the faith of Abraham throughout all of that
without getting misty-eyed...

But I will leave the academic side of this discussion
to the more willing participants.

Please, everyone, feel free to share your thoughts.
All I ask is that everyone endeavor to keep it civil.

 

[murjahel]

Before one accepts the book of Jasher,
one should make sure 'which' book of Jasher...​

Like Enoch, there are fake ones out there...
Enoch 2, Enoch 3, Secrets of Enoch..
are false books...
Enoch ! is the one quoted by Jude...​

There are three books called
"The Book of Jasher",
which are entirely different books. ​

One is a Hebrew treatise on ethics,
an obvious fraud.​

Another is an easily detected fraud,
published in 1751,
which claims to have been translated
into English by Flaccus Albinus Alcuinus.​

It is still in print, make sure it is not that one.
It is sometimes called Pseudo-Jasher
to distinguish it from the third,
the real Book of Jasher, ​

The legitimate Hebrew document,
that is the Book of Jasher,
is the one that I will be discussing.​

Titus destroyed Jerusalem in AD 70.
At that time, a man named Sidrus
discovered a hidden library
complete and a man hiding there. ​

He had mercy on the man and took him
and the books
to his Seville, Spain,
then called Hispalis. ​

The Jewish college at Cordova, Spain, kept the document...
and finally had the book printed in Hebrew in Venice in 1625.​

It was translated into English
by Mr. Samuel of Liverpool, England. ​

At the same time, the pseudo Jasher
was being translated,
and confusion over which was real,
which was fake,
made many shy from the real,
fearing it was the pseudo one.​

By 1833, the proof that the pseudo ones
were false were circulating.
Some shied away from the book, the real one,
fearing it was the one referred to...
That fear still exists today in many circles.​

Because of the fear of the book,
Samuel sold his translation
to Mordecai M. Noah, a New York publisher,
and it was published there in 1840. ​

It was the first English translation
of the Book of Jasher ever published.​

The preface to the book includes testimonies
of several Hebrew scholars
affirming that the translation is excellent
and very faithful to the original Hebrew. ​

 

[Faulty]

I found it to be a very interesting read, but as with any other historical book, I read it with an "it's probably mostly correct in some areas" approach.

 

[Simon_Templar]

I don't believe that the book of Jasher we have today is the same as the one referred to in the bible.

I do believe that it was NOT written during the 1600's, I believe that it is actually significantly older than this.

The manuscript evidence shows that the book of Jasher probably pre-dates the dominance of the masoretic texts in the Jewish community because there are a few references in the book of Jasher which have 'scribal errors' that are present in the Samaritan Pentatuch, but not in the Masoretic text, or in the Septuagint. This indicates that at least part of Jasher most likely came from the manuscript tradition of the samaritan pentatuch. This would not be the case if it were written during the middle ages.

The masoretic texts became dominant in the Jewish community over the period from 700 AD to 1000 AD so it seems very likely that the book of Jasher must have been written before then.

However, the fact that it has scribal errors from the Samaritan Pentatuch, while proving that the book may indeed be much older, is also a strike against its authenticity (as the original book of Jasher from the bible) in my mind. This makes me think that at least portions of it must have been copied from or based on the manuscripts of the Samarian Pentatuch.

Another interesting point is that in the account of the offering of Isaac, when Isaac asks Abraham "where is the lamb for the offering"... Jasher has a changed version of Abraham's response from the biblical text.

In the Bible, Abraham responds saying "The Lord himself will provide the lamb" which of course is often, and rightly, taken to be a messianic prophecy of Jesus.

Jasher changes this so that Abraham tells Isaac that God has chosen Isaac to be the sacrifice.

This makes me wonder, and suspect, that Jasher may have been written after the time of Christ by a Jewish author who was essentially, at that point, arguing against the Christian view, saying that Isaac (and through him Israel) was the lamb, not Jesus.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Another interesting point is that in the account of the offering of Isaac, when Isaac asks Abraham "where is the lamb for the offering"... Jasher has a changed version of Abraham's response from the biblical text.

In the Bible, Abraham responds saying "The Lord himself will provide the lamb" which of course is often, and rightly, taken to be a messianic prophecy of Jesus.

Jasher changes this so that Abraham tells Isaac that God has chosen Isaac to be the sacrifice.

This makes me wonder, and suspect, that Jasher may have been written after the time of Christ by a Jewish author who was essentially, at that point, arguing against the Christian view, saying that Isaac (and through him Israel) was the lamb, not Jesus.

I think they go together very well, in that the sacrifice of Isaac was a living oracle about the Atonement, rehearsed by Abraham and Isaac, as living prophets.
I think the lamb in Jasher is made to represent Christ very well, as "the Lamb of God" ordained "slain from the foundation of the world"
Jhn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.Jhn 1:29 ¶ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Jasher 22
70

And Abraham lifted up his eyes and saw, and behold, a ram was caught in a thicket by his horns; that was the ram which the Lord God had created in the earth in the day that he made earth and heaven.
71

For the Lord had prepared this ram from that day, to be a burnt offering instead of Isaac.
72

And this ram was advancing to Abraham when Satan caught hold of him and entangled his horns in the thicket, that he might not advance to Abraham, in order that Abraham might slay his son.
73

And Abraham, seeing the ram advancing to him and Satan withholding him, fetched him and brought him before the altar, and he loosened his son Isaac from his binding, and he put the ram in his stead, and Abraham killed the ram upon the altar, and brought it up as an offering in the place of his son Isaac.
74

And Abraham sprinkled some of the blood of the ram upon the altar, and he exclaimed and said, This is in the place of my son, and may this be considered this day as the blood of my son before the Lord.
75

And all that Abraham did on this occasion by the altar, he would exclaim and say, This is in the room of my son, and may it this day be considered before the Lord in the place of my son; and Abraham finished the whole of the service by the altar, and the service was accepted before the Lord, and was accounted as if it had been Isaac; and the Lord blessed Abraham and his seed on that day.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

To any here who have read the Book of Jasher,
and especially those who have begun to debate it
in the other thread dedicated to the Book of Enoch,
please share your reproofs, questions, insight, research,
or any other relevant data pertaining to the authenticity
of the Book of Jasher here, so that the other thread
about the Book of Enoch may avoid derailment.

To start, I'd just like to say that I have read Jasher
multiple times and gone through it with a fine-toothed comb;
it confirms many things in Scripture and provides
a far greater depth of detail to many great events
written of in the recognized Western canon,
such as the account of Abraham's and Isaac's
journey to Mt. Moriah, and all that happened on the trip there.

I have a hard time reading the Jasher account of
the faith of Abraham throughout all of that
without getting misty-eyed...

But I will leave the academic side of this discussion
to the more willing participants.

Please, everyone, feel free to share your thoughts.
All I ask is that everyone endeavor to keep it civil.

For me, Jasher fills in all the points that I always wondered about, which were left hanging, like in a void, in the historical account in the Torah, of the lives of the Patriarchs.
Also, it tells the prophecy of Abel which made Abel a prophet -as Jesus said he was- and that prophecy, too, was about Jesus; who was YHWH the Word, who was to come in flesh, to be the avenger of blood who brings justice to the earth as second "ish" creation, the Kinsman to Adam, who has the legal authority, the power, and the will, as Kinsman, to avenge the blood of the slain in Adam.

Cain feared Abel's prophecy after he killed Abel, when the LORD called him to account for it, but Cain was not understanding the time frame of its fulfillment himself, and so YHWH gave Cain a token/a sign of promise that he would not be slain by the Kinsman-avenger -of blood.

Miriam was a prophetess, states Exodus, but Jasher tells the content of her prophetic utterance, which prophesied Moses/ birth, and that he was to be the deliverer of Israel from the bondage to Egypt. We also are left hanging as to why the babies in Israel were no longer drowned after Moses, but in Jasher we learn it was because of the Egyptian princess adopting Moses.
In the NT, we read that Moses supposed they would know that he was the deliverer, when he killed the Egyptian taskmaster abusing his people, but that is left out of the Torah account.

In Jasher, we also learn who the Ethiopian woman was whom Moses married, and we learn that it was a political marriage of convenience, only. We learn all the details about Moses so much, that I believe that Moses wrote Jasher, as a true record, which he redacted for the Torah account, and that Joshua finished it.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Please, everyone, feel free to share your thoughts.
All I ask is that everyone endeavor to keep it civil.

What did you think about the "rod of God" that Adam was given to have dominion over earth with, which Moses ended up with -and by which he got his wife, Ziporrah? - That rod belongs to Jesus Christ, who is "the God of the whole earth" of the human being kind, as second Man [named Israel]; and He will use it when He takes His power and reigns over the earth which He purchased back, by His blood.
I wonder where it is hidden at? -God knows!

 

[Ajax 777]

What did you think about the "rod of God" that Adam was given to have dominion over earth with, which Moses ended up with -and by which he got his wife, Ziporrah? - That rod belongs to Jesus Christ, who is "the God of the whole earth" of the human being kind, as second Man [named Israel]; and He will use it when He takes His power and reigns over the earth which He purchased back, by His blood.
I wonder where it is hidden at? -God knows!

Do you suppose it could be in Heaven with Him?
Is there any chance of that happening?

Also, do you believe that there was some kind of inherent
power or blessing which YHWH had conferred upon the garment
HE made of animal skins for Adam which Nimrod later wore?

What do you think about Nimrod being slain by Esau?

 

[murjahel]

Ginzberg, in his collection, "Legends fo the Jews", quotes from it freely, and it is listed in Jewish encyclopedias as an authentic source.​

Some do think that it was written in Spain during the 12th century.
They think that it was taken from the Midraash, that quoted from the real book of Jasher.
This may be true.
For the book of Jasher is not a book of the Bible, nor claims to be. ​

It was a historical book, not a Biblical book,
when Joshua and Samuel referred to it in the Bible.​

It therefore is not protected by God, and changes could have been made to it, without His protection. ​

We have only one manuscript from which to make translation, not many thousands as we have of the Bible, to verify its adherence to it not being added to, or parts removed.​

We do know that many European forms fo the name were used in Jasher, so the names were updated in the 12th or 13th centuries.
Our Bibles have the same. The name of 'Jesus' is 'Yeshua' in the
original, the updated Greek form, more English form,
we have in our Bible, and we don't seem upset about it...
The book of Jasher was updated in the 12th century to have
more updated versions of the names. This does not denigrate
it, any more than our Bible's names denigrate its message.
​

I do believe that it was translated from its original form, from an original mss
of Jasher, with more modern names inserted then to update them.​

It is a history book, and the history of it shows marvelous agreement with the Bible,
so other changes do not seem to have been made.
I have researched it, and verified
its adherence to not disagreeing with the Bible, and found it harmonious.
It does add many, many details to the
Bible stories, which, though addtional
to the Bible, do not contradict the Bible,
do not change any doctrines of the faith,
and are therefore beneficial to us
more fully understanding the Bible's
explanation of events.​

The book is a ‘history’ book, and is not Scripture.
We have the book of Josephus, which is also a ‘history book.
We have the Encyclopedia Britannica,
we have many books to which we look to find information. ​

This book is a valuable source, for it is a book of history authored in the time of Moses. ​

I have studied it, made a commentary on it, comparing it to the Bible, verifying if it agrees in facts with the Bible or not.
It does.
I find it very valuable as a history book.​

much more to come​

 

[Simon_Templar]

With the book of Jasher, it really comes down to what you want to believe about it because there is scant evidence to go on.

What very little evidence there is comes from analyzing the text itself and trying to determine when it might have been written by comparison to other known texts.

This shows both that there are probably parts of it which are older than the 1625 date of its original publishing and also that there are parts which were clearly added or changed (such as the inclusion of medieval place names etc).

The evidence that it is older is mainly that it has sections which clearly came from the same manuscript tradition as the Samarian Torah, thus it would seem likely that it had to have been written before the Masoretic Text became the recognized official text.

However, it could also mean that it simply came from an area where the masoretic texts were not widely used yet.

In addition, there are numerous similarities to both various Midrash sources, and also some Arabic sources. But what this means is debatable. It could mean that Jasher was written by someone who had access to those sources, or it could mean that they were all written from a common source, or it could mean that those texts were influenced by Jasher.

HOWEVER, if Jasher remained completely hidden from 70 AD to 1625 AD as its own legend of Sidrus claims, then Jasher COULD NOT have been a source for any material written during that time.

Thus if it appears to quote, or have remarkable similarity to texts written during that time, it is likely that the Jasher story is false and that the book was written based off of those texts, rather than the other way around.

What is clear is that, even if Jasher is not what it claims to be, it is at the very least a good volume of Jewish legend and lore. Even if it is a 'forgery' it was still clearly compiled based on Talmud, Midrash, and other such sources.

 

[murjahel]

With the book of Jasher, it really comes down to what you want to believe about it because there is scant evidence to go on.

What very little evidence there is comes from analyzing the text itself and trying to determine when it might have been written by comparison to other known texts.

This shows both that there are probably parts of it which are older than the 1625 date of its original publishing and also that there are parts which were clearly added or changed (such as the inclusion of medieval place names etc).

The evidence that it is older is mainly that it has sections which clearly came from the same manuscript tradition as the Samarian Torah, thus it would seem likely that it had to have been written before the Masoretic Text became the recognized official text.

However, it could also mean that it simply came from an area where the masoretic texts were not widely used yet.

In addition, there are numerous similarities to both various Midrash sources, and also some Arabic sources. But what this means is debatable. It could mean that Jasher was written by someone who had access to those sources, or it could mean that they were all written from a common source, or it could mean that those texts were influenced by Jasher.

HOWEVER, if Jasher remained completely hidden from 70 AD to 1625 AD as its own legend of Sidrus claims, then Jasher COULD NOT have been a source for any material written during that time.

Thus if it appears to quote, or have remarkable similarity to texts written during that time, it is likely that the Jasher story is false and that the book was written based off of those texts, rather than the other way around.

What is clear is that, even if Jasher is not what it claims to be, it is at the very least a good volume of Jewish legend and lore. Even if it is a 'forgery' it was still clearly compiled based on Talmud, Midrash, and other such sources.

you are assuming much,
putting words in my mouth that I did not
say...

it was not completely hidden...
the copy you refer to, and its owner
were isolated, and he may have assumed
it was the only copy out there...
probably not though..

it is shown to be quoted in a number of
places over the centuries, so it is not as
isolated as you would think...

the library at Alexandria had multiple
volumes of books...
are they referred to by anyone?
some are, some many are not..

this is a history book...
not of interest to those outside Judaism
during those ages...
in a library some places...
not read in the synagogues,
so the scribes likely did not carry around
a copy (as if they could lift one)...

there is much evidence,

the books of the law were located in Josiah's day,
one copy,had been lost in the temple
for many, many years...
all new to the hearers when Josiah
had it read to them...

are we going to be as tough on
those books...
how do we know they are for real?
internal evidence???

come on... be real...

some of the ones here have not
thrown the book out before reading,
studying, verifying...
I know it is a bit of work...
but... well, the wall street journal is too...
lol​

 

[murjahel]

...This book claims to be a historical book.
I & II Samuel are history books,
I & II Kings are also...
and I & II Chronicles are also.

Can we find apparent discrepancies in those?
Yes, we can.
Why?
Because the number of horses in Solomon’s stable probably varied each year, so the number does not need to be the same in one book as the other... LOL

When I studied the Bible’s historical books,
I had to figure out some ‘apparent’
but not ‘real’ discrepancies.

When I studied Jasher,
there are a few that needed
study to verify their accuracy.

When Moses did the research for the Pentateuch,
and he did,
for he refers to 11 other books he got information from, ...
at that time,
the author of Jasher’s book
seems to have used the same sources,
and recorded in more detail the history of events.

So, the short scenarios in Genesis about Abraham,
have far more detail given in Jasher.

Whoever Jasher was, he was obviously working with Moses on those previous writings.

The Book of Jasher ends its historical information,
shortly after Moses’ death,
while Joshua was still living.

We call Deuteronomy to be one of the books of Moses.
Yet, chapter 34 of Deuteronomy recrords up to 30 days at least after Moses died.
Who wrote that part?
Joshua, Jasher?

So, the Book of Jasher was written by a acribe,
one who worked with Moses,
while Moses compled writings from Abraham, Noah, etc..

Joshua trusted it, and he lived during the time it was being written.
So, he knew the author and the research he had done.

Samuel still trusted its historical teachings many years later.

The translator of the 1840 version of this book, said this book is a ‘"verable monument of antiquity", ...
He also stated that the internal evidence is "sufficient to prove it a copy of the book referred to in Joshua 10 and II Samuel 1."

This internal evidence can be studied, verified, and shown.

The same way the finders of the Books of the Law probably verified those books when they found them after being lost for perhaps as long as 100 years.​

 

[murjahel]

II Samuel 1:18 refers to Jasher.

Is there a discrepancy in that?

There is an apparent one.

II Samuel 1:18
"And he (David) bade them to teach the children
of Judah to use the bow,
behold, it is written in the Book of Jasher."

The Book of Jasher ends in Joshua’s day,
how could it refer to David
teaching the tribe of Judah
to use the bow?

That is a discrepancy, an apparent error...

But not in Jasher...
this apparent error is in II Samuel...

How could Samuel quote from sonething not in Jashder?

Some have wanted to throw Samuel’s book out due to that ‘error’...

How can we trust it (Samel's book)?
How can it be the inerrant Word of God?

Some on this board,
that are looking for some little discrepancy
in Jasher,
so they can throw it out,
need to look at Samuel’s book
and treat it the same!!!
LOL

It is not a discrepancy.

In Jasher,
it is said that Judah will learn the use
of the bow,
and David, obviously knew that,
obviously had read the Book of Jasher,
and instructed some to teach Judah’s tribe to use the bow.

Samuel tells us that David was following the Book of Jasher in his orders to have the tribe of Judah get such teaching.

So, there is not error in Samuel...
As some have thought...

And not error in Jasher, as some would hope... LOL

Samuel read Jasher,
David knew of Jasher’s words...

We call that a confirmation...
not a discrepancy!​

...

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Whoever Jasher was, he was obviously working with Moses on those previous writings.

​

There was no person named "Jasher". The title of the book means "record of the upright", or "Upright Record". The Jews know there is no person named "Jasher", and for that reason, they rejected a false "Jasher" claiming to have been written by a man of that name, in centuries past.
Jasher is true history, and I believe that Moses is its author, except that I believe that Joshua completed it, and then began his record, titled Joshua. History is recorded from Adam to Christ -and after Christ, by men like Josephus.
The early records were not hidden or lost when Moses had access to them and used them for a redacted history of the patriarchs. The twelve tribes each had their own records, written by their fathers, as we see in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and from those, Moses wrote the redacted accounts, which he redacted more for the Torah.

Moses was born only 48 years after Joseph died, and his mother was the daughter of Levi, and Levi wrote his own record, which is preserved in fragment in the DSS, as all the others did also. There is no reason to believe that the writings were lost to Israel when Moses was born, nor that he did not use them for his record, for Jasher, or for the Torah.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

In Lamentations Jeremiah writes in the first person as if he were Zion. In Daniel's prayer, in Daniel 9, Daniel prays as if he is Israel who has sinned. In Psalm 18, David prays in the first person, citing the things Noah said in a prayer in the Ark, for himself and all on the Ark, and David cites in the first the things the sons of Jacob did in the war with the Canaanite kings, as are reported in the book of Jasher, and also cites in the first person the things Jesus will do, as reported in Enoch.

Jasher 6


And the rain was still descending upon the earth, and it descended forty days and forty nights, and the waters prevailed greatly upon the earth; and all flesh that was upon the earth or in the waters died, whether men, animals, beasts, creeping things or birds of the air, and there only remained Noah and those that were with him in the ark.
27

And the waters prevailed and they greatly increased upon the earth, and they lifted up the ark and it was raised from the earth.
28

And the ark floated upon the face of the waters, and it was tossed upon the waters so that all the living creatures within were turned about like pottage in a cauldron.
29

And great anxiety seized all the living creatures that were in the ark, and the ark was like to be broken.
30

And all the living creatures that were in the ark were terrified, and the lions roared, and the oxen lowed, and the wolves howled, and every living creature in the ark spoke and lamented in its own language, so that their voices reached to a great distance, and Noah and his sons cried and wept in their troubles; they were greatly afraid that they had reached the gates of death.
31

And Noah prayed unto the Lord, and cried unto him on account of this, and he said, O Lord help us, for we have no strength to bear this evil that has encompassed us, for the waves of the waters have surrounded us, mischievous torrents have terrified us, the snares of death have come before us; answer us, O Lord, answer us, light up thy countenance toward us and be gracious to us, redeem us and deliver us.
32

And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Noah, and the Lord remembered him.

So David prays this, in Psalm 18, from Jasher:

Psa 18:2 The LORD [is] my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, [and] my high tower. I will call upon the LORD, [who is worthy] to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.
The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid.
The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, [even] into his ears.

After that, in Psalm 18, I think David is praying about the time of Israel's deliverance from Egypt, and the meeting with God on the mount, but the deliverance from the time of the flood and also from Egypt may be merged:
then we get to his first person prayer celebrating Jacob's sons' war with the Canaanite kings, which is recorded only in Jasher, like this:
Psa 18:29 For by thee I have run through a troop; and by my God have I leaped over a wall.
Psa 18:31 For who [is] God save the LORD? or who [is] a rock save our God? [It is] God that girdeth me with strength, and maketh my way perfect.
He maketh my feet like hinds' [feet], and setteth me upon my high places.

After that, in Psalm 18, the victory through Jesus, the Messiah, at the end of this age is recorded in first person, I think.


So when did the event happen that David praises about when "I have run through a troop and leaped over a wall? -only in Jasher, and the record of that six day war and the incredible victory YHWH gave the sons of Jacob is found in chapters 33 -37 [the background to it], and then in chapters 37-40, the six day war with the Canaanite kings and giants resident in those cities [the mighty men/powerful men, who were giant in size, that the sons of Jacob got the victory over and slew, in that was].
If you have never read the above, I encourage you to read it, as it is a pattern for the final and supernatural victory that Israel will get over their enemies. http://www.speakingbible.com/jasher/index.htm

 

[murjahel]

What does the name "Jasher" mean?​

Some believe it is the name of the author.
It may be. ​

Yet, that name,
other than to refer to the book, is not found.​

The Hebrew word ‘jasher’ means
‘straight, right, upright’.​

One translator called the book
‘The Book of the Upright’.​

The Hebrew edition of the 1625 version
felt that all the events listed were
in ‘straight’ order, chronological. ​

The translators of the 1840 version
felt that the events listed in Jasher were
‘upright’, i..e. true and honest.​

If Jasher is not the author, who is? ​

Could it have been Moses,
who researched all the earlier writings of Abraham, etc... ?​

Could it have been a researching scribe who was helping him? ​

Could it have been Joshua,
who finished Deuteronomy for Moses,
and wrote the Book of Joshua? ​

We don’t know,
and perhaps will not know until we reach heaven.​

Josephus, in the first centruy A.D.
refers to the Book of Jasher.​

He seems to agree with the idea that it refers to the uprightness of the facts,
and the people whose history is recorded.​

Josephus said:
"That by this book are to to understood certain records kept in some safe place on purpose, giving an account of what happened among the Hebrews from year to year, and called Jasher, or the upright, on account of the fidelity of the annals."​

 

[SummaScriptura]

Subscribing. Will read posts later.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Do you suppose it could be in Heaven with Him?
Is there any chance of that happening?

Also, do you believe that there was some kind of inherent
power or blessing which YHWH had conferred upon the garment
HE made of animal skins for Adam which Nimrod later wore?

What do you think about Nimrod being slain by Esau?

I think it is on earth, still, and only Jesus can get it from where it is, and rule with it. I think that is His Rod which He passes the entire gathered "elect" [gathered by angels, as Jesus states in Matthew]-Jacob's seed, who are brought by the angels to stand before Him at Sinai [as Enoch says He comes to, in Enoch 1], to "the wilderness", as Ezekiel states [which is where Sinai is], in Ezekiel 20: 33-44. Just as a shepherd passes his sheep under the rod, so Jesus passes the entire gathered seed of Jacob under His Rod after His return, and the rebels are purged out, and the remaining ones enter into the promised land, to enjoy the millennial Sabbath reign, as His "Blessed of YHWH", who inherit the kingdom come on earth for that reign.

They believed there was power in the garments that were made by the hand of God the Word [Jesus pre-incarnate], and I have no reason to doubt it.

In the slaying of Nimrod by Esau, that was foretold to Nimrod [in Jasher 8, when Abram was born], by his "wise men".
Also, in chapter 12, we have the fascinating dream Nimrod had, which was interpreted for him by his "wise" man, named Anuki [of nephillim born after the flood, I believe, as they were the descendants of Anak, Anakim, nephillim: "anuki", was the wise man who told Nimrod that Abram's seed would slay him. Also, in that same dream, the whole account of Genesis 14 was recorded, when Abram pursued Nimrod [Amraphel] and the kings, to get back what they had taken in the raids on the cities of the plain, and defeated them.

Also, it was neat to learn in Jasher things that no one knew about word meanings, because of its loss, and because, then, of the loss of Hebrew as a spoken language for so many centuries; like "Amraphel" being Nimrod's coined name:
And Nimrod dwelt in Babel, and he there renewed his reign over the rest of his subjects, and he reigned securely, and the subjects and princes of Nimrod called his name Amraphel, saying that at the tower his princes and men fell through his means.

The Strong's concordance says the word amraphel is "Of uncertain (perhaps foreign) derivation ", but here we have the Upright Record telling us that Amraphel is Nimrod, and his name is from the Hebrew words Am/people/they/them; rapha/cast down/, and el, mighty one/god [with a small "g"]. Because Jasher was lost, no one in the modern times knew who Amraphel was, and that he was Nimrod.


There are lots of words in from Hebrew, in Jasher, explained like that: like the origin of Miriam's name, from the bitterness the Egyptians [am -they, the people], had brought upon the lives of the Israelites.

 

[SummaScriptura]

I like to have witnesses who agree with one another.

Is there any truly ancient witness to the 1840 Jasher book?

Were fragments of it found in the Dead Sea Scroll caves?

Was it quoted by ancient writers, especially very early Christian ones?

Was it ever considered a book worth preserving by any Christian community?

These are corroborating witnesses all of which the Books of Enoch and Jubilees have, for instance.

 

[murjahel]

There is evidence that the Hebrews
did not consider the Book of Jasher
to be Scripture.

They did honor it, preserve it,
read it, trust it,
but it was considered a ‘history’ book,
not a Scripture.


When Ptolemy, king of Egypt,
requested to have a copy of the Jewish holy books,
the Hebrews would not give them the Holy Scriptures,
for he was a gentile.

So, they sent him a copy of Jasher.

It is said that Ptolemy prized it greatly.
When he discovered it was not their holy law, he confronted them.
They, then agreed to translate their Scriptures into Greek,
and this is the origin of thte Septuaguint.

The Book of Jasher needs tested by the Word
of God, and yet, it contains far more detail
to the stories that are in the Bible.
Does it harmonize, or contradict?

We read Bible dictionaries.
We see pictures of Golgotha,
learn truths about the tunnels under
the holy mount where the Temple sat.
We do not have all those facts in the Bible,
but we are reading addtional material.

If it disagrees with the Bible, I would
doubt the Bible dictionary,
and would not doubt the Bible...

If Jasher disagrees with the Bible,
we believe the Bible,
but, I have not found that yet...

So, can I trust it?
I believe there is overwhelming confirmation
that the Hebrews down through the centuries
had good reason to trust it.
..​