The Book of Enoch?

[Yekcidmij]

I don't understand why you don't consider it scripture then really.

Mainly because I disagree with the text.

Jude implied that it was scripture, using it and quoting from it, claiming it to be prophesy.

I don't use it any more than I use Paul's various external sources.

Those that place their faith in God to redeem them, and therefore are redeemed? Yes. It's the same group of people.

The question begging continues. How can you prove that the "elect" in Enoch are the same as the "elect" in the New Testament? I get that you assert this as fact, so you don't have to keep asserting it.

See, when I read Enoch I get the feeling that the "elect" are a particular sect of Jews maybe around the around the time of or shortly after the return from the Babylonian exile (or the Maccabean period depending on which parts of the book you're referring to) and are probably the ones responsible for writing the book. It looks to me like the group rejected the legitimacy of the 2nd Temple (which sort of makes a lot of sense if you read about what was going on) and the legitimacy of the calendar and corresponding Sabbaths and feasts. It seems they thought the heavenly luminaries (ie, the sun, moon, stars, and planets) were actually fallen angels who had transgressed God's divine calendar and so didn't show up at their "appointed" times, which to them was the perfectly symmetrical 364 day year. The book devotes much of it's writing to explaining the things it thinks were most important, such as the calendar. It seems the [initial] group may have been Northern Israelite/Samaritan in origin (See Milik for more, MILIK - The Book of Enoch Aramaic Fragments Qumran Cave 4 : J. T. Milik : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive ).

The group writing this text thought of themselves as "elect" over and against the other Jewish sects, and especially those that subscribed to the temple and it's leadership in Jerusalem. The group at Qumran, undoubtedly Essenes, probably saw themselves as the rightful inheritors of this tradition and so where themselves made part of the "elect."

This is why it sounds comparable to Christianity because that particular sect carried similar themes, but they didn't mean the same things. It's similar to the relationship between Christianity and Mormonism in that both groups use very similar language, but mean very different things.

There's been a misunderstanding here: The earliest book (as in the oldest one we have to this date found) dated back 200 years before Jesus was born. This doesn't mean that this is when the book was written.

Of course, but you just have to fill that 1800 year gap with something beyond supposition.

There are a few different versions that have popped up since, but the ones people generally refer to match yeah. There's three main versions, the greek version isn't the one I'd read. The Ethiopian or the Aramaic ones are consistent, and hold up to scripture when held in comparison.

They aren't consistent in that the Aramaic ones are missing chapters 37-71. The Greek is missing those chapters as well.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

if you compare all passages that have Sheol very quickly you see they had no idea what this place was. There is no verse in the OT that shows the Hebrews had knowledge of what Sheol was and it was more a word used to describe death itself. If you think otherwise you're going to have to give some examples

Why can't you prove the Scriptures for yourself, instead of just saying what is provable, by search, is not?
Sheol was the hollow, the belly, of the earth. "Sheol" is from the Hebrew/Edenic root etymons for Hollow; but even more, belly is from the Hebrew root etymons, BL, for "to swell".

The hollow of the earth/sheol, has different compartments, and a lowest compartment. It has fires. The wicked are punished in torments there while they await the judgment of the everlasting fires of the second death.
The belly of the earth is where a satan/evil spirit named Abaddon/Destruction reigns, since the fall of Adam, and Abel's soul/person was the first to descend there.

Gen 4:10
And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood/soul/life crieth/calls [to cry, cry out, call, cry for help] unto me from the ground.
Gen 4:11
And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood/life/soul from thy hand;
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

Enoch saw Abel's soul in the hollow reserved for those murdered unjustly, who were yet to be avenged and who called out to the LORD to avenge their blood/life.

Moses wrote that record from/using the ancient writings he had access to, as a Levite, and Enoch had already revealed the hollows of the earth -the sheol, the belly, where the souls went after departing the body.
In Sheol/the hollow/belly of the earth, the persons/souls there are seen talking, feeling, and thinking. There are several corroborating passages in the OT on those facts that Enoch first revealed, and Jesus also corroborated Enoch's revelations of the same, in Luke 16.

The righteous who awaited the Atonement which was promised in Eden, at the fall, to the Adam race, who were kept in the first death of separation from the Father of Glory in Sheol, had a special hollow there, with springs of water and breezes.
The wicked were in another place/ another hollow, and in torments and in fire...the fallen chained angels who are chained there are kept in the lowest part, and tormented there by the satans, who have dominion, rule it, since the fall, as Genesis 3:14 shows.

Enoch revealed it, and Genesis 3:14, in the Hebrew, shows how it came to be the abode of the dead, where a particular Satan/evil spirit, reigns. Satan got the power to curse all flesh on earth at the fall. Eating dust/flesh is what the evil spirit of corruption does, and then death/Abaddon, feeds the souls to Sheol. Sheol opens her mouth wide to receive the souls who come in mass deaths, and even enlarges herself to do so. Over a 1/4 million souls died in the Tsunami of 2004, when an earthquake struck in the Indian ocean and raised the sea floor by a mile---Sheol enlarged herself then, sor sure!

The Adam race is conceived and lives in flesh of corruption since the fall. Death takes the departed soul to "feed" Sheol.
sheol/the hollow, is the "pit" that has gates...Jesus took all the souls of the righteous out of there, to Paradise above, when He finished the promised Atonement.

Jesus corroborated hell below, in the belly of the earth, exactly as Enoch had revealed it [Luke 16]; and as Moses and many of the prophets did.
Jesus has the keys to hell since His death, nevertheless, Abaddon/Destruction = a particular created evil spirit/a satan, has dominion there in the belly of the earth since the fall of Adam -and will until death and hell are cast into the Lake of Fire.


Did Jesus descend into hell?
Deu 32:22
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

Psa 86:13
For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.
Isa 14:9
Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Isa 5:14
Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

Jon 2:2
And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

 

[JM]

I've been reading The Book of Enoch...I can understand why it was reject as scripture, but it's useful in seeing how the New Testament references it. That's pretty cool.

 

[DamianWarS]

Why can't you prove the Scriptures for yourself, instead of just saying what is provable, by search, is not?
Sheol was the hollow, the belly, of the earth. "Sheol" is from the Hebrew/Edenic root etymons for Hollow; but even more, belly is from the Hebrew root etymons, BL, for "to swell".

The hollow of the earth/sheol, has different compartments, and a lowest compartment. It has fires. The wicked are punished in torments there while they await the judgment of the everlasting fires of the second death.
The belly of the earth is where a satan/evil spirit named Abaddon/Destruction reigns, since the fall of Adam, and Abel's soul/person was the first to descend there.

Gen 4:10
And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood/soul/life crieth/calls [to cry, cry out, call, cry for help] unto me from the ground.
Gen 4:11
And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood/life/soul from thy hand;
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

Enoch saw Abel's soul in the hollow reserved for those murdered unjustly, who were yet to be avenged and who called out to the LORD to avenge their blood/life.

Moses wrote that record from/using the ancient writings he had access to, as a Levite, and Enoch had already revealed the hollows of the earth -the sheol, the belly, where the souls went after departing the body.
In Sheol/the hollow/belly of the earth, the persons/souls there are seen talking, feeling, and thinking. There are several corroborating passages in the OT on those facts that Enoch first revealed, and Jesus also corroborated Enoch's revelations of the same, in Luke 16.

The righteous who awaited the Atonement which was promised in Eden, at the fall, to the Adam race, who were kept in the first death of separation from the Father of Glory in Sheol, had a special hollow there, with springs of water and breezes.
The wicked were in another place/ another hollow, and in torments and in fire...the fallen chained angels who are chained there are kept in the lowest part, and tormented there by the satans, who have dominion, rule it, since the fall, as Genesis 3:14 shows.

Enoch revealed it, and Genesis 3:14, in the Hebrew, shows how it came to be the abode of the dead, where a particular Satan/evil spirit, reigns. Satan got the power to curse all flesh on earth at the fall. Eating dust/flesh is what the evil spirit of corruption does, and then death/Abaddon, feeds the souls to Sheol. Sheol opens her mouth wide to receive the souls who come in mass deaths, and even enlarges herself to do so. Over a 1/4 million souls died in the Tsunami of 2004, when an earthquake struck in the Indian ocean and raised the sea floor by a mile---Sheol enlarged herself then, sor sure!

The Adam race is conceived and lives in flesh of corruption since the fall. Death takes the departed soul to "feed" Sheol.
sheol/the hollow, is the "pit" that has gates...Jesus took all the souls of the righteous out of there, to Paradise above, when He finished the promised Atonement.

Jesus corroborated hell below, in the belly of the earth, exactly as Enoch had revealed it [Luke 16]; and as Moses and many of the prophets did.
Jesus has the keys to hell since His death, nevertheless, Abaddon/Destruction = a particular created evil spirit/a satan, has dominion there in the belly of the earth since the fall of Adam -and will until death and hell are cast into the Lake of Fire.


Did Jesus descend into hell?
Deu 32:22
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

Psa 86:13
For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.
Isa 14:9
Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Isa 5:14
Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

Jon 2:2
And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

you're using extra-OT sources to inform your OT understanding of Sheol but without this knowledge the OT's presentation of Sheol is too vague and mysterious to be this specific. First Sheol is not "Hell" so just start using a different translation to be less bias in the text because every time you read "hell" you have already made up your mind what the text is talking about.

For example if Deu 32:22 says "For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell..." this automatically takes us to a "fire and brimstone" hell and superimposes it over this text because it just fits; Hell=fire and this text proves it. Well the text does not say Hell it says "Sheol" so in another translation more responsible to the ambiguity of the word it reads: "For a fire is kindled in My anger, And burns to the lowest part of Sheol..." this says the same thing but there is less bias. What does the text mean and is it saying there are several levels of Sheol? Well you might think that but this is probably the only reference in the OT that paints this picture. The text is developed with figurative language so we shouldn't get from it that Sheol has several levels and at the bottom is fire but instead that God is intensely angry. The entire chapter is figurative language so in v20 when it says "I will hide my face from them" does it mean God has a physical body with a face that he is hiding? Or in v23 it says "I will spend my arrows on them" does this mean God has a bow and arrow and he is firing them from heaven? so why in 22 does it mean that God is making a fire out of his anger and he burns it at the bottom of this multilayered dante's inferno hell? The context of the text does not support such a jump.

Sheol, as presented in the OT, is used mostly figuratively as a state of depression dominantly in the poetic books, like going down to sheol or coming up from sheol (over half of the Sheol references are in the poetic books and much of the other references are in a figurative context). It is referenced as a place down in the earth and it liken to a pit as well as contrasted with Heaven but it is also is liken to a grave or death itself. In terms of "layers" there are 2 passages that refer to Sheol with a potential of levels which is Deu 32:22 and Psa 86:13 and both use figurative language.

OT simply does not paint a clear picture of Sheol and what it does reveal is that it was a place of ignorance. Sheol means an unknown place [of the dead] and this essentially is what Hades means (which means is a absence of knowledge) so they may come form the same word. Sheol comes from the word for a request or a seeking of that which is unknown and in context of the grave it is an image of the dead going to the beyond seeking that which is unknown. Although there are figurative references that show an escape or rescue from Sheol these cannot responsibly be used to determined what the place is other than that it was undesired. Death itself is the best fitting context of Sheol and what it reveals is there is only mystery or the unknown beyond death. This doesn't fit Enoch.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

you're using extra-OT sources to inform your OT understanding of Sheol but without this knowledge the OT's presentation of Sheol is too vague and mysterious to be this specific. ...

The word is from the Hebrew for "hollow". You can check that out for yourself. You might need to get familiar with the fact that all languages are confounded from the one mother tongue, which is proto Hebrew, or Edenic, as Isaac Mozeson calls it.
The belly is the heart, or the hollow of the man. The hollow/Sheol, is the heart of the earth.
There's lots of Scripture that corroborates the facts. Enoch revealed first, that there are four hollows in the belly of the earth. He saw them, what they were made for, and who goes there, and for how long.
The OT is filled with the references to that place exactly as Enoch revealed it. You need to learn to look at the Word and check it out, cross check it, look at the Hebrew words, and their roots.
Jesus also corroborated what Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam revealed about that place. Enoch's book is canon in the Ehtiopic orthodox Church, and has been there from the beginning of the received Gospel by the Ehtiopians in the first century, who were Jews living there. They had Enoch among their writings, as also the Jews of Jesus time in Jerusalem did, and they never threw it out. It's still there...
Jesus also corroborated what Enoch revealed about the Lake of Fire.
Luke 16: The corroboration of Sheol below, as Enoch saw it and revealed it.
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell[d] from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”

So in Sheol they feel, they see, they hear, they know who they are and how they lived and what they are there for and when they will be released, and to what; they are either in rest or in torments, and there are compartments separating the ones who are there. The OT passages I put on my last post corroborates that, but enoch saw it all first.
Since the completed and received Atonement, there are no righteous souls in Sheol/Hell/the hollow/the belly of the earth. Jesus took them who were held in the first death since Adam's fall to Paradise above, to await their resurrected/regenerated bodies, except for those whom He gathered from there in their perfected bodies as first of Firstfruits offering, to offer before the Holies above, with Himself, on the first day of the week after Passover.

HELL | English Word Origin for the word HELL
LXX: Genesis 14:7 7 And having turned back they came to the well of judgment; this is Cades,
Hard C and hard H, Q, and K are interchangable letters in the languages, since Babel.
Hades is coined from the Hebrew Qadesh, unclean holiness, because example given by the destruction of Sodom and the cities of the plain, by fire and brimstone from heaven, is a warning of the greater everlasting fire coming on those who do such things..
There was no Greek civilization in existence at the time of that destruction, but when the Greeks came, at the time of Alexander, they took the word unto themselves....it was a terrible judgment, and the memory lives on, by the name of the place.

 

[DamianWarS]

The word is from the Hebrew for "hollow". You can check that out for yourself. You might need to get familiar with the fact that all languages are confounded from the one mother tongue, which is proto Hebrew, or Edenic, as Isaac Mozeson calls it.
The belly is the heart, or the hollow of the man. The hollow/Sheol, is the heart of the earth.
There's lots of Scripture that corroborates the facts. Enoch revealed first, that there are four hollows in the belly of the earth. He saw them, what they were made for, and who goes there, and for how long.
The OT is filled with the references to that place exactly as Enoch revealed it. You need to learn to look at the Word and check it out, cross check it, look at the Hebrew words, and their roots.
Jesus also corroborated what Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam revealed about that place. Enoch's book is canon in the Ehtiopic orthodox Church, and has been there from the beginning of the received Gospel by the Ehtiopians in the first century, who were Jews living there. They had Enoch among their writings, as also the Jews of Jesus time in Jerusalem did, and they never threw it out. It's still there...
Jesus also corroborated what Enoch revealed about the Lake of Fire.
Luke 16: The corroboration of Sheol below, as Enoch saw it and revealed it.
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell[d] from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”

So in Sheol they feel, they see, they hear, they know who they are and how they lived and what they are there for and when they will be released, and to what; they are either in rest or in torments, and there are compartments separating the ones who are there. The OT passages I put on my last post corroborates that, but enoch saw it all first.
Since the completed and received Atonement, there are no righteous souls in Sheol/Hell/the hollow/the belly of the earth. Jesus took them who were held in the first death since Adam's fall to Paradise above, to await their resurrected/regenerated bodies, except for those whom He gathered from there in their perfected bodies as first of Firstfruits offering, to offer before the Holies above, with Himself, on the first day of the week after Passover.

HELL | English Word Origin for the word HELL
LXX: Genesis 14:7 7 And having turned back they came to the well of judgment; this is Cades,
Hard C and hard H, Q, and K are interchangable letters in the languages, since Babel.
Hades is coined from the Hebrew Qadesh, unclean holiness, because example given by the destruction of Sodom and the cities of the plain, by fire and brimstone from heaven, is a warning of the greater everlasting fire coming on those who do such things..
There was no Greek civilization in existence at the time of that destruction, but when the Greeks came, at the time of Alexander, they took the word unto themselves....it was a terrible judgment, and the memory lives on, by the name of the place.

You are still superimposing NT versions of hades to form your understanding of OT shoel. This is fine in terms of progressive revelation but to prove that Enoch is a pre-flood text that the OT authors had access to you're going to have to put away your NT. Quoting at length NT accounts is not helping prove that Ecnoch is a pre-flood text.

Using the OT alone Sheol is a mysterious place of the dead that all must pass through and because of its wide ignorance of the place it does not support Enoch as a pre-existent text that was exposed to OT authors. You have failed to show OT accounts that can confirm your position. There aren't a lot of "sheol" references in the OT and it doesn't take long to read them all. It may help confirm Sheol within the Earth or as a pit but nowhere near how enoch describes it. The OT is simply too lacking on this subject and does not reflect exposure to the book of Enoch

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Israel also had connection to Ethiopia through King Solomon and Queen Sheba - (1 Kings 10) 990 B.C.- 910 B.C.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Israel also had connection to Ethiopia through King Solomon and Queen Sheba - (1 Kings 10) 990 B.C.- 910 B.C.

Is biblical Ethiopia the same as modern Ethiopia (in terms of geographical area)?

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Is biblical Ethiopia the same as modern Ethiopia (in terms of geographical area)?

I'm showing you this to make the connection that they had a Connection to The Ancient Hebrews, The Scriptures of The Hebrews and The Temple.

Also, The Ethiopian Eunuch in (Acts 8) shows the Ancient connection to Israel that Ethiopia had. The Eunuch was reading a copy of Isaiah because they had The Scriptures of The Hebrews already.

 

[DamianWarS]

I'm showing you this to make the connection that they had a Connection to The Ancient Hebrews, The Scriptures of The Hebrews and The Temple.

Also, The Ethiopian Eunuch in (Acts 8) shows the Ancient connection to Israel that Ethiopia had. The Eunuch was reading a copy of Isaiah because they had The Scriptures of The Hebrews already.

None of this matters as the Greeks didn't occupy Ethiopia until after 300 AD well after tartarus appears in Greek texts c. 700 AD

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

None of this matters as the Greeks didn't occupy Ethiopia until after 300 AD well after tartarus appears in Greek texts c. 700 AD

I'm referring to Ethiopia having The Book of Enoch hundreds of years before Christ was born through the connection of King Solomon and Queen Sheba.

The version we have today is translated from the ones found in Ethiopia.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

...Using the OT alone Sheol is a mysterious place of the dead that all must pass through and because of its wide ignorance of the place it does not support Enoch as a pre-existent text that was exposed to OT authors. You have failed to show OT accounts that can confirm your position. There aren't a lot of "sheol" references in the OT and it doesn't take long to read them all. It may help confirm Sheol within the Earth or as a pit but nowhere near how enoch describes it.
The OT is simply too lacking on this subject and does not reflect exposure to the book of Enoch

OT confirms Sheol as a "Hollow", or Hollows, in the belly of the earth, exactly as Enoch revealed.
The OT never re-lays the foundations of what Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, revealed. It was fact believed as truth, and not to be "re-laid" as foundational doctrines.
Enoch revealed it all, cause he was taken on a tour of the entire universe by angels, and saw it all.
Jesus never re-laid the foundation that Enoch laid down, but spoke the same of them as they were seen by Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam.

 

[DamianWarS]

I'm referring to Ethiopia having The Book of Enoch hundreds of years before Christ was born through the connection of King Solomon and Queen Sheba.

The version we have today is translated from the ones found in Ethiopia.

I'm referring to the fact that Greek mythology and the Book of Enoch are too similar and one must have been influenced by the other. It's hard to place Greeks in a position where they would be influenced by this book if it were a pre-flood text as there was no Jewish connection at the time the mythology appears in Greek texts (700 BC) but it's easy to see how the Jews were influenced by the Greeks during the hellenization period which happens to line up with the oldest copies available.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

I'm referring to the fact that Greek mythology and the Book of Enoch are too similar and one must have been influenced by the other. It's hard to place Greeks in a position where they would be influenced by this book if it were a pre-flood text as there was no Jewish connection at the time the mythology appears in Greek texts (700 BC) but it's easy to see how the Jews were influenced by the Greeks during the hellenization period which happens to line up with the oldest copies available.

That's the thing though. IT'S NOT GREEK MYTHOLOGY, IT'S ANCIENT ANTEDILUVIAN SCRIPTURE. IT DIDN"T COME FROM THE GREEKS.

 

[DamianWarS]

OT confirms Sheol as a "Hollow", or Hollows, in the belly of the earth, exactly as Enoch revealed.
The OT never re-lays the foundations of what Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, revealed. It was fact believed as truth, and not to be "re-laid" as foundational doctrines.
Enoch revealed it all, cause he was taken on a tour of the entire universe by angels, and saw it all.
Jesus never re-laid the foundation that Enoch laid down, but spoke the same of them as they were seen by Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam.

This is no big revelation and does not uniquely link OT sheol to Enoch. The OT authors cannot be used to confirm they had access to the book of Enoch by how they reveal their understanding of Sheol which too me states the opposite that they they did not have access to this book.

 

[DamianWarS]

That's the thing though. IT'S NOT GREEK MYTHOLOGY, IT'S ANCIENT ANTEDILUVIAN SCRIPTURE. IT DIDN"T COME FROM THE GREEKS.

No doubt the greeks were influenced but who passed it too them?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

No doubt the greeks were influenced but who passed it too them?

They got it from the Hebrews, and grew it over time.
When Solomon's kingdom was in its glory, the Greeks were nothing. Read true history.
Read Josephus.

 

[DamianWarS]

They got it from the Hebrews, and grew it over time.
When Solomon's kingdom was in its glory, the Greeks were nothing. Read true history.
Read Josephus.

So how were they influenced by the Hebrews? Cause I can't find a sufficient link pre-greek mythology which would suggest the Greeks were influenced by the Hebrews. But I can find a sufficient link post Greek mythology to suggest the Hebrews were influenced by the greeks

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

After that he hath cleansed the saintuary, and the tabernacle, and the altar, then offer he the living goat buck; (And after that he hath cleansed the sanctuary, and the Tabernacle, and the altar, then bring he forth the living goat for Azazel
• Leviticus 16:20 (Wycliffe Bible made from The Latin Vulgate)

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+16&version=WYC
https://philologos.org/bpr/files/a018.htm



And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication,
• 1 Enoch 8:1-2


and his seed may be preserved for all the generations of the world.' And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire.
• 1 Enoch 10:4-7


.....And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin......
• 1 Enoch 10:8-9


And Enoch went and said: 'Azazel, thou shalt have no peace: a severe sentence has gone forth against thee to put thee in bonds: And thou shalt not have toleration nor request granted to thee, because of the unrighteousness which thou hast taught, and because of all the works of godlessness and unrighteousness and sin which thou hast shown to men.'
• 1 Enoch 13:1-3

http://reluctant-messenger.com/book_of_enoch.htm




When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.
• Revelation 11:7

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+11&version=NKJV

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

* List of some Church Fathers and Others mentioning Fallen Angels mating with human wives to create Giants :



1. • Justin Martyr - Second Apology - Chapter 5 (100-165 A.D.)

“But the angels transgressed this appointment, and were captivated by love of women, and begat children who are those that are called demons; and besides, they afterwards subdued the human race to themselves, partly by magical writings, and partly by fears and the punishments they occasioned, and partly by teaching them to offer sacrifices, and incense, and libations, of which things they stood in need after they were enslaved by lustful passions; and among men they sowed murders, wars, adulteries, intemperate deeds, and all wickedness. Whence also the poets and mythologists, not knowing that it was the angels and those demons who had been begotten by them that did these things to men, and women, and cities, and nations, which they related, ascribed them to god himself, and to those who were accounted to be his very offspring, and to the offspring of those who were called his brothers, Neptune and Pluto, and to the children again of these their offspring. For whatever name each of the angels had given to himself and his children, by that name they called them“.

CHURCH FATHERS: The Second Apology (St. Justin Martyr)





2. • Athenagoras of Alexandria - A Plea For The Christians - Chapters 24 and 25 : (133-190 A.D.)

Just as with men, who have freedom of choice as to both virtue and vice (for you would not either honour the good or punish the bad, unless vice and virtue were in their own power; and some are diligent in the matters entrusted to them by you, and others faithless), so is it among the angels. Some, free agents, you will observe, such as they were created by God, continued in those things for which God had made and over which He had ordained them; but some outraged both the constitution of their nature and the government entrusted to them: namely, this ruler of matter and its various forms, and others of those who were placed about this first firmament (you know that we say nothing without witnesses, but state the things which have been declared by the prophets); these fell into impure love of virgins, and were subjugated by the flesh, and he became negligent and wicked in the management of the things entrusted to him. Of these lovers of virgins, therefore, were begotten those who are called giants. And if something has been said by the poets, too, about the giants, be not surprised at this: worldly Wisdom and divine differ as much from each other as truth and plausibility: the one is of heaven and the other of earth; and indeed, according to the prince of matter,- Chapter 24


These angels, then, who have fallen from heaven, and haunt the air and the earth, and are no longer able to rise to heavenly things, and the souls of the giants, which are the demons who wander about the world, perform actions similar, the one (that is, the demons) to the natures they have received, the other (that is, the angels) to the appetites they have indulged. But the prince of matter, as may be seen merely from what transpires, exercises a control and management contrary to the good that is in God:- Chapter 25

ANF2 Athenagoras the Athenian: Philosopher and Christian





3. • Irenaeus - The Proof of the Apostolic Preaching 18 (130-202 A.D)

“And for a very long while wickedness extended and spread, and reached and laid hold upon the whole race of mankind, until a very small seed of righteousness remained among them: and illicit unions took place upon the earth, since angels were united with the daughters of the race of mankind; and they bore to them sons who for their exceeding greatness were called giants. And the angels brought as presents to their wives teachings of wickedness, in that they brought them the virtues of roots and herbs, dyeing in colours and cosmetics, the discovery of rare substances, love-potions, aversions, amours, concupiscence, constraints of love, spells of bewitchment, and all sorcery and idolatry hateful to God; by the entry of which things into the world evil extended and spread, while righteousness was diminished and enfeebled.”

Irenaeus, The Proof of the Apostolic Preaching (1920) pp. 69-151.

The “Church Fathers” and the Book of Enoch






4. • Titus Flavius Josephus - The Antiquities of the Jews - Book 1 - Chapter 3

(37-100 A.D.)

Now this posterity of Seth continued to esteem God as the Lord of the universe, and to have an entire regard to virtue, for seven generations; but in process of time they were perverted, and forsook the practices of their forefathers, and did neither pay those honors to God which were appointed to them, nor had they any concern to do justice towards men. But for what degree of zeal they had formerly shown for virtue, they now showed by their actions a double degree of wickedness; whereby they made God to be their enemy, for Many Angels Of God Accompanied With Women And Begat Sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength; for the tradition is, that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians Called Giants. But Noah was very uneasy at what they did; and, being displeased at their conduct, persuaded them to change their dispositions and their acts for the better; but, seeing that they did not yield to him, but were slaves to their wicked pleasures, he was afraid they would kill him, together with his wife and children, and those they had married; so he departed out of that land.

The Antiquities of the Jews, by Flavius Josephus




5. • Philo of Alexandria - On The Giants - (25 B.C.-50 A.D.)

And when The Angels of God saw the daughters of men that they were beautiful, They Took Unto Themselves Wives of all of them whom they Chose." Those beings, whom other philosophers call demons, Moses usually calls angels; and they are souls hovering in the air. And let no one suppose, that what is here stated is a fable, for it is necessarily true that the universe must be filled with living things in all its parts, since every one of its primary and elementary portions contains its appropriate animals and such as are consistent with its nature; --the earth containing terrestrial animals, the sea and the rivers containing aquatic animals, and the fire such as are born in the fire (but it is said, that such as these last are found chiefly in Macedonia), and the heaven containing the stars: for these also are entire souls pervading the universe, being unadulterated and divine, inasmuch as they move in a circle, which is the kind of motion most akin to the mind, for every one of them is the parent mind.

Philo: On the Giants





6. • Archelaus - The Acts of The Disputation with The Heresiarch Manes - Chapter 32 (3rd Century)


Hence also certain of The Angels, refusing to submit themselves to the commandment of God, resisted His will; and one of them indeed fell like a flash of lightning upon the earth, While Others, harassed by the dragon, sought their felicity In Intercourse With The Daughters Of Men, and thus brought on themselves the merited award of the punishment of eternal fire.


ANF06. Fathers of the Third Century: Gregory Thaumaturgus, Dionysius the Great, Julius Africanus, Anatolius, and Minor Writers, Methodius, Arn - Christian Classics Ethereal Library





7. • Commodianus - The Instructions of Commodianus - Chapter 3 - (3rd Century)
When Almighty God, to beautify the nature of the world, willed that that earth should be visited By Angels, when they were sent down they despised His laws. Such was the beauty of women, that it turned them aside; so that, being contaminated, they could not return to heaven. Rebels from God, they uttered words against Him. Then the Highest uttered His judgment against them; and from their Seed Giants are said to have been born. By them arts were made known in the earth, and they taught the dyeing of wool, and everything which is done; and to them, when they died, men erected images. But the Almighty, because they were of an evil seed, did not approve that, when dead, they should be brought back from death. Whence wandering they now subvert many bodies, and it is such as these especially that ye this day worship and pray to as gods.

ANF04. Fathers of the Third Century: Tertullian, Part Fourth; Minucius Felix; Commodian; Origen, Parts First and Second - Christian Classics Ethereal Library





8. • Eusebius of Caesarea - Preparations - Book 5 - Chapter 4 - (263-339 A.D.)


And this argument is still further confirmed by Plutarch, in the passage where he says that the mythical narratives told as concerning gods are certain tales about daemons, and the deeds of Giants and Titans celebrated in song among the Greeks are also stories about daemons, intended to suggest a new phase of thought.

Of this kind then perhaps were the statements in the Sacred Scripture concerning the giants before the Mood, and those concerning their progenitors, of whom it is said, 'And when The Angels of God saw The Daughters Of Men that they were fair, They Took Unto Them Wives Of All That They Chose,' and of these were born 'The Giants the men of renown which were of old.'

For one might say That These Demons Are Those Giants, And That Their Spirits Have Been Deified By The Subsequent Generations Of Men, and that their battles, and their quarrels among themselves, and their wars are the subjects of these legends that are told as of gods. Plutarch indeed, in the discourse which he composed On Isis and the gods of the Egyptians, speaks as follows word for word:

Eusebius of Caesarea: Praeparatio Evangelica (Preparation for the Gospel). Tr. E.H. Gifford (1903) -- Book 5





**** There Are Some More References Here : The Book of Enoch - Page 3



For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, Because Of The Angels.
• 1 Corinthians 11:10