The biblical doctrine of election

[MDC]

No, because the Bible teaches that Christ died for everyone. And not everyone will be saved.

The basis for salvation is faith alone (apart from any works) in Christ alone.

Paul's answer to the jailer's question supports this:
Acts 16:30-31
30 He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved — you and your household."

The jailer asked what he MUST DO to be saved. The answer is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.


Are you saying that one must believe that God's grace is sovereign to be saved???


It's true whether one is able to comprehend that or not.


And I also stand on eternal security, possibly more than you. And that doesn't make me a Calvinist.


If there is anything in the OP that is unbiblical, it should be easy to point out the points that are unbibical.


I have provided much Scripture in the OP that supports the fact that election is not about being saved. Feel free to prove otherwise by explaining what all those verses actually mean.


All of God's doctrines are on the basis of grace. Calvinism does not have the corner on the market of grace.


I have actually addressed those Scriptures to point out that none of them show that election is about salvation, and all the verses in the OP show that salvation is NOT involved in election.


Quite a bit of error in this question.

First, it isn't "man's will of choosing Christ" that is the cause of salvation. That's just a huge error that Calvinists make when faced with views other than their own.

The cause of salvation is God alone. He causes salvation. All man can do is receive the gift.

Consider a homeless beggar on a street. A man walks by, and hands a meal from MacDonald's to him, and the beggar reaches out and accepts the gift. Does that mean that the beggar was the cause of having the meal to eat? I sure hope you're reasonable enough to realize that accepting a gift in NO WAY is the cause of having the gift.

It is the GIVER who is the CAUSE of the gift being given. Not the givee taking the gift.

Now, the second error is trying to use free will to argue that man can walk away from the gift. The reason is clearly obvious in Scripture. Salvation is permanent.

God's gifts are irrevocable, Rom 11:29. Eternal life is one of those gifts, Rom 6:23. But there's much more than just these 2 verses to prove it. Jesus said that those who believe HAVE (as in the present tense) eternal life in John 5:24. Then, in John 10:28 He said that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.

Arminians irrationally argue against eternal security in spite of these clear verses.


God's promise is the basis.


Please show how, now that I've cleared up all your misconceptions of my view.

The basis or foundation by which God saves, is solely by His mercy (grace) and Christ and His merits alone. And arminians like yourself don't believe this. And is why you believe in foreseen merit. Arminians believe their "faith" merits justification. Arminians turn faith into a meritorious work because they refuse the biblical teaching of the election of grace. Faith is the instrument by which we lay hold upon the object of justification, which is Christ Jesus. The Bible teaches that those who are saved believe (faith) Christ and His work, MERITS justification! Justification is received by Gods mercy and Christ merits alone, embraced by faith. Do you see the difference? The gospel shows forth in its deepest way, the mercy of God in salvation. Therefore all Gods people seek Gods mercy by laying hold and resting in Christ Jesus for eternal life. Your OP was only to uphold Arminian free will doctrine by trying to disprove the truth of election in salvation. Which is the election of grace. Which you didn't prove. And please tell me why do you believe you are secure in Christ? Since you believe maybe more so than I lol, in the security of the believer. Since you believe in universal atonement and deny sovereign grace, what actually secures your salvation?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Doesn't your belief say the beggar doesn't have to reach out and accept the gift?

No. Why would one think that one has to "reach out" to receive something? Simply putting the item in the hand of the recipient suffices. So your attempt to derail my example fails.

Don't you say he only has to believe? Don't you agree the beggar only has to believe he has the meal and he will be filled?

Receiving salvation is equivalent to having God simply put salvation in your hand.

What is it - reach out and accept salvation, or just believe you have salvation?

No one has to "reach out". Paul's answer to the jailer answers your question in Acts 16:31.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The basis or foundation by which God saves, is solely by His mercy (grace) and Christ and His merits alone. And arminians like yourself don't believe this.

I already addressed your view in post #37:
"No, because the Bible teaches that Christ died for everyone. And not everyone will be saved.

The basis for salvation is faith alone (apart from any works) in Christ alone.

Paul's answer to the jailer's question supports this:
Acts 16:30-31
30 He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved — you and your household."

The jailer asked what he MUST DO to be saved. The answer is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ."

And is why you believe in foreseen merit.

You don't have the right or knowledge to make such a statement about what I believe. There is NO MERIT in believing in Jesus Christ. The merit is in what Jesus Christ on the cross.

God credits righteousness to those who believe. Just read Rom 3:22-ch 4.

Arminians believe their "faith" merits justification.

Which is why I'm NOT one of them.

Arminians turn faith into a meritorious work because they refuse the biblical teaching of the election of grace.

I believe in election by grace. But there is no biblical evidence that God chooses who will believe.

Faith is the instrument by which we lay hold upon the object of justification, which is Christ Jesus. The Bible teaches that those who are saved believe (faith) Christ and His work, MERITS justification!

There is no merit on the part of man in salvation. All merit belongs to God and Jesus Christ.

Justification is received by Gods mercy and Christ merits alone, embraced by faith. Do you see the difference?

I agree with this. I'm not Arminian.

The gospel shows forth in its deepest way, the mercy of God in salvation. Therefore all Gods people seek Gods mercy by laying hold and resting in Christ Jesus for eternal life.

I believe this.

Your OP was only to uphold Arminian free will doctrine by trying to disprove the truth of election in salvation.

Apparently you don't understand the OP then. The point is that election is NOT about being chosen for salvation, which the 6 categories plainly shows.

Which is the election of grace. Which you didn't prove.[/QUOT]
I don't have to prove it. It's totally obvious.

And the 6 categories of election that were backed up with Scripture proves that election is NOT about salvation, but service.

And please tell me why do you believe you are secure in Christ?

I already did. Don't you read my posts? Then why are you bothering to post?

I'll give the SAME answer as in post #37 again:
"God's promise is the basis." Do you not understand this answer?

Since you believe maybe more so than I lol, in the security of the believer. Since you believe in universal atonement and deny sovereign grace, what actually secures your salvation?

What do you mean that I "deny sovereign grace"? That's just silly.

Where did I ever do that? What I do deny is the Calvinist doctrine of election, whereby God chooses who will believe.

The biblical view is that God chooses to save those who believe.

But do you understand the difference?

I also understand that the phrase "sovereign grace" is just code for Calvin's doctrine of election.

Since God is sovereign, all of His plans are sovereign. Duh. No real mystery here.

But I do deny Calvin's code phrases and what they mean.

If anyone can back up Calvin's doctrines with Scripture, please share.

But, before anyone tries that, please address the 6 categories in the OP and show how everyone in each category was elected to salvation. That will be quite interesting.

 

[EmSw]

No. Why would one think that one has to "reach out" to receive something? Simply putting the item in the hand of the recipient suffices. So your attempt to derail my example fails.

Did you not say in post #37, 'Consider a homeless beggar on a street. A man walks by, and hands a meal from MacDonald's to him, and the beggar reaches out and accepts the gift. Does that mean that the beggar was the cause of having the meal to eat? I sure hope you're reasonable enough to realize that accepting a gift in NO WAY is the cause of having the gift.'

No sir, you derailed your example. You are so wishy washy, it's not funny. You change according to the direction of the wind. Look at what you said above! Do you see the words 'reaches out'? Those are your exact words.

Receiving salvation is equivalent to having God simply put salvation in your hand.

Is this another man-made doctrine by free grace advocates? It's surely not in the Bible. Which way is the wind blowing now?

No one has to "reach out". Paul's answer to the jailer answers your question in Acts 16:31.

What if the jailer didn't reach out and believe? Perhaps would be in the outer darkness of the wedding hall if he didn't reach out.

Besides, in your example, we are not told to accept a gift, but rather, accept the word after hearing it (Mark 4:20). What word was planted in the jailer's heart for him to accept?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Did you not say in post #37, 'Consider a homeless beggar on a street. A man walks by, and hands a meal from MacDonald's to him, and the beggar reaches out and accepts the gift. Does that mean that the beggar was the cause of having the meal to eat? I sure hope you're reasonable enough to realize that accepting a gift in NO WAY is the cause of having the gift.'

OK, mr hair splitter. The man places the Big Mac meal sack in the beggar's hand. NO DIFFERENCE in the example. Happy now?

No sir, you derailed your example. You are so wishy washy, it's not funny. You change according to the direction of the wind.

Ridiculous. There is NO DIFFERENCE whether the beggar reaches out or the man places the sack in the beggar's hand.

Look at what you said above! Do you see the words 'reaches out'? Those are your exact words.

I clarified in my last post. Please just get over your hair splitting urges.

I said this:
"Receiving salvation is equivalent to having God simply put salvation in your hand."

Is this another man-made doctrine by free grace advocates? It's surely not in the Bible. Which way is the wind blowing now?[/QUOT]
I never said it was "in the Bible". Don't you ever read all of what I post? I gave an example that is equivalent to what God does in giving the gift of salvation.

What if the jailer didn't reach out and believe?

I never said he reached out to believe. He simply believed and was saved. Don't you understand Paul's answer?

Besides, in your example, we are not told to accept a gift, but rather, accept the word after hearing it (Mark 4:20). What word was planted in the jailer's heart for him to accept?

Just more hair splitting. The Bible defines eternal life as a gift of God.

How are gifts received? Duh.

 

[EmSw]

OK, mr hair splitter. The man places the Big Mac meal sack in the beggar's hand. NO DIFFERENCE in the example. Happy now?

Hmmm, the beggar believes it's a Big Mac, but doesn't eat it. In fact, he throws it in the trash. What will believing get him?

Ridiculous. There is NO DIFFERENCE whether the beggar reaches out or the man places the sack in the beggar's hand.

Again, God doesn't place salvation in anyone's hand. I'm waiting to see where you got this.

I clarified in my last post. Please just get over your hair splitting urges.

Why do you call it hair-splitting when you stumble all over yourself in your beliefs?

I said this:
"Receiving salvation is equivalent to having God simply put salvation in your hand."

I'm still waiting for where this is stated in the Bible.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Hmmm, the beggar believes it's a Big Mac, but doesn't eat it. In fact, he throws it in the trash. What will believing get him?

Seems you're having a hard time understanding a simple example. The scenario obviously assumes he was hungry. But never mind these simple and obvious things. You're just not going to accept anything I post.

But, in your own example, by NOT eating the Big Mac, shows that the beggar didn't "believe" in the gift.

I explain this for your benefit, as probably everyone else on this planet would have already understood that.

Again, God doesn't place salvation in anyone's hand. I'm waiting to see where you got this.

And I'll say once again that I never said that God does that.

Why do you call it hair-splitting when you stumble all over yourself in your beliefs?

I've not yet stumbled over anything, much less my beliefs. Why do you deny your own hair-splitting?

I said this:
"Receiving salvation is equivalent to having God simply put salvation in your hand."

I'm still waiting for where this is stated in the Bible.

You're not going to find it in the Bible.

I guess you're totally unfamiliar with the meaning of "is equivalent to...".

 

[EmSw]

Seems you're having a hard time understanding a simple example. The scenario obviously assumes he was hungry. But never mind these simple and obvious things. You're just not going to accept anything I post.

I'm hungry now; who's going to put a Big Mac in my hands? What if I went to find a McDonald's and entered through the door? Do you suppose I would find a Big Mac?

Matthew 7:14
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Luke 13:24
Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

Jesus tells us that it is those who STRIVE to find and enter the gate and way which lead to life, are the ones who find it. Nothing about it being put into our hands. Now use your example by Biblical truths Jesus told us, and tell how the beggar finds a Big Mac.

But, in your own example, by NOT eating the Big Mac, shows that the beggar didn't "believe" in the gift.

Why do you think the beggar didn't believe it was a Big Mac? Even by your example, the beggar has to believe it is a Big Mac AND eat it. Just believing won't fill him.

I explain this for your benefit, as probably everyone else on this planet would have already understood that.

No need explaining, you said what you said.

And I'll say once again that I never said that God does that.

Yet, you said the Big Mac was placed in the beggar's hand. Now you are backtracking because you see the error of your way.

I've not yet stumbled over anything, much less my beliefs. Why do you deny your own hair-splitting?

You are stumbling as you speak. You see your error and are now backtracking.

I said this:
"Receiving salvation is equivalent to having God simply put salvation in your hand."

You're not going to find it in the Bible.

I guess you're totally unfamiliar with the meaning of "is equivalent to...".

Receiving salvation is NOT equivalent to God simply putting it in our hand. It is not so, because you won't find it in the Bible. This is a man-made, free grace doctrine.

Jesus says STRIVE to enter the narrow gate. It is the gate which leads to life. Jesus did not say sit on streets begging and hope someone comes by and gives you a Big Mac. He says to STRIVE to enter and find life. Like the beggar, many will seek to enter and will not be able. Why? They did not STRIVE to enter the narrow gate.

 

[MDC]

I already addressed your view in post #37:
"No, because the Bible teaches that Christ died for everyone. And not everyone will be saved.

The basis for salvation is faith alone (apart from any works) in Christ alone.

Paul's answer to the jailer's question supports this:
Acts 16:30-31
30 He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved — you and your household."

The jailer asked what he MUST DO to be saved. The answer is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ."


You don't have the right or knowledge to make such a statement about what I believe. There is NO MERIT in believing in Jesus Christ. The merit is in what Jesus Christ on the cross.

God credits righteousness to those who believe. Just read Rom 3:22-ch 4.


Which is why I'm NOT one of them.


I believe in election by grace. But there is no biblical evidence that God chooses who will believe.


There is no merit on the part of man in salvation. All merit belongs to God and Jesus Christ.


I agree with this. I'm not Arminian.


I believe this.


Apparently you don't understand the OP then. The point is that election is NOT about being chosen for salvation, which the 6 categories plainly shows.

You say one thing, but mean something else from what I see. You say the basis for salvation is in Christ alone by faith alone correct? But yet, you don't believe Christ atoning work and substitutionary death through fulfilling the righteous requirements of the law, MERITS no ones salvation in and of itself rt? Apparently not, since man must do something in order for Christ merits to be effectual, which is synergistic salvation. Which proves no faith in Christ. And is why Arminians believe "faith" is meritorious. It's faith in SELF plus Christ. Universal atonement leads to a denial of the person and work of Christ in salvation, since many perish and suffer for their sins in hell. This proves, along with all of the teachings related to the doctrines of grace Arminianism holds to, to be no faith at all in The gospel that saves. You don't believe Christ Jesus is the sole bases for salvation by Gods grace, by saying that "faith" is the bases. Faith is the instrument by which we lay hold and rest in our Savior. Jesus "by one offering hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." And this is ultimately what the denial of the election of grace in salvation will lead to. Synergistic salvation. This is my whole point to your OP. And your belief in saying God chooses to save those who believe (foreseen merit), is code for Arminian free will autonomy. It flips the true biblical meaning of election. Which denies Gods Sovereignty and makes man supreme. How can you say the promises of God secures a believer in Christ, when you deny Christ and His finished work in and of itself doesn't save apart from mans free autonomous will "believing"? You make mans "choice" or faith the basis for ones security, like you said. Not Gods grace and Christ and His perfect work in redeeming His people. Logically man can freely walk away from the faith, if mans will to choose is the cause like arminians say, if that's the case... Maybe I'm confused on where you stand but that's what I get from you. Never understood the inconsistency in arminians who hold to eternal security. I believe it's simply a denial of Gods Sovereign elective grace in salvation which leads to this conclusion

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm hungry now; who's going to put a Big Mac in my hands? What if I went to find a McDonald's and entered through the door? Do you suppose I would find a Big Mac?

Please go back and read my post.

Jesus tells us that it is those who STRIVE to find and enter the gate and way which lead to life, are the ones who find it. Nothing about it being put into our hands. Now use your example by Biblical truths Jesus told us, and tell how the beggar finds a Big Mac.

I'm just amazed at how much it seems you like to pit Scripture against itself.

This is what Jesus said:
Matt 11:28-30
28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

The view that salvation must be earned or worked for is unbiblical.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You say one thing, but mean something else from what I see. You say the basis for salvation is in Christ alone by faith alone correct? But yet, you don't believe Christ atoning work and substitutionary death through fulfilling the righteous requirements of the law, MERITS no ones salvation in and of itself rt? Apparently not, since man must do something in order for Christ merits to be effectual, which is synergistic salvation.

Faith is non-meritorious. So faith does not involve synergy. Apparently you're not really all that familiar with the meaning of synergy.

Which proves no faith in Christ. And is why Arminians believe "faith" is meritorious.

But it isn't, so they are quite wrong on that point.

It's faith in SELF plus Christ. Universal atonement leads to a denial of the person and work of Christ in salvation

That doesn't make sense. But since you'r confused about things, I understand why it doesn't.

since many perish and suffer for their sins in hell.

No, no one suffers for their sins in hell. The only reason people will be cast into the lake of fire is for not having their names in the book of life (Rev 20:15). iow, because they didn't put their faith in Jesus Christ to save them, they never received the irrevocable gift of eternal life.

This proves, along with all of the teachings related to the doctrines of grace Arminianism holds to, to be no faith at all in The gospel that saves.

There is no need to go over any details of what the Arminians believe. I'm not one of them.

You don't believe Christ Jesus is the sole bases for salvation by Gods grace, by saying that "faith" is the bases.

Again, you're wrong about what I believe and don't believe. I DO believe that Jesus Christ is the sole basis for salvation by God's grace, but apparently you're just not going to believe what I am saying. But for no good reason.

Faith is the instrument by which we lay hold and rest in our Savior. Jesus "by one offering hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." And this is ultimately what the denial of the election of grace in salvation will lead to. Synergistic salvation. This is my whole point to your OP.

The OP shows that election is NOT about being chosen for salvaton. Did you bother reading any of the 6 categories of election? Can you show that any of the categories were chosen for salvation? Of course you can't. Because they weren't.

And your belief in saying God chooses to save those who believe (foreseen merit), is code for Arminian free will autonomy.

It isn't code at all. The statement is based on 1 Cor 1:21:
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

I have a question for you. Do you believe that God was pleased to save those who believe, or not?

I believe that He is pleased to save those who believe.

The very fact that He is pleased to save those who believe demonstrates that He chooses to save those who believe.

Now, where is the verse that plainly tells us that God chooses who will believe?

It flips the true biblical meaning of election.

The OP demonstrates the true biblical meaning of election.

Which denies Gods Sovereignty and makes man supreme.

Not in my theology. Seems you keep getting mixed up between my theology and the Arminians.

How can you say the promises of God secures a believer in Christ

Seriously? I can say it because it's true. Let's just look at one of the promises of Jesus, if you really do believe what He promised:
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.

This is quite straightforward. Those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH. That's a promise.

when you deny Christ and His finished work in and of itself doesn't save apart from mans free autonomous will "believing"?

Again, you just don't understand my view at all, and keep putting the errors of Arminianism into it.

Part of your confusion is that you don't believe that Jesus died for everyone, even though the Bible actually says so. And His death actually purchased the gift of eternal life for everyone. However, since God is pleased to save ONLY those who believe, per 1 Cor 1:21, they are the only ones who receive the free gift of eternal life.

You make mans "choice" or faith the basis for ones security

I've been very clear about this, and yet you STILL FAIL to grasp it. No one is saved by their act of believing.

They are saved by God, who saves those who believe (1 Cor 1:21). But it's clear to me that you don't understand the Bible.

Not Gods grace and Christ and His perfect work in redeeming His people.

I've already said that all of God's plan is because of His grace, so you're wrong again.

Logically man can freely walk away from the faith, if mans will to choose is the cause like arminians say, if that's the case... Maybe I'm confused on where you stand but that's what I get from you.[/QUOTE]
Yes, you are very confused. So stop trying to mix Arminianism into my views, and maybe you will not be so confused.

Never understood the inconsistency in arminians who hold to eternal security.

There you go again. STOP mixing Arminianism into my views.

I believe it's simply a denial of Gods Sovereign elective grace in salvation which leads to this conclusion

You've been so wrong on so many of my views. I've tried to correct your errors, but it doesn't seem to do any good. Are you paying any attention, or are you just defaulting to some form of Arminianism when you read my posts?

If you "filter" my views through Arminianism, you'll just stay very confused.

 

[MDC]

No I believe you are confused on what you believe. You say the basis for salvation is faith alone.. then you say no one is saved by their act of believing.. then say, they are saved by God who saves those who believe. No doubt God saves those who believe!! The just live by faith! But faith in and of itself is a means by which the elect rest in Christ Jesus who justifies and saves through His redemptive work. Gods grace and Christ Jesus and His merits is the basis of salvation to them that believe. But faith in Christ, is itself a gift from a regenerated heart God gives to them He has chosen in Christ. Which you deny. Like I said before, I'm sure you aren't ignorant of "Calvinism". Usually those who insist they are neither Arminian or Calvinist when it comes to soteriology, are actually staunch Arminians. Please tell me what you disagree with about Arminianism besides your belief in the security of the believer?

 

[EmSw]

Please go back and read my post.


I'm just amazed at how much it seems you like to pit Scripture against itself.

This is what Jesus said:
Matt 11:28-30
28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

The view that salvation must be earned or worked for is unbiblical.

So, did you 'come to' Jesus? That pretty much exposes your example of a beggar.

How did you 'come to' Jesus? Also, did you strive to enter the narrow gate, which leads to life?

 

[FreeGrace2]

No I believe you are confused on what you believe.

In post #51, I had to correct your errors about my view at least 6 times, so what you believe about what I believe continues to be in error.

I asked several questions, and I notice that none of them were addressed in your response. Why do you dodge them?

Here's one of them:
"The OP shows that election is NOT about being chosen for salvaton. Did you bother reading any of the 6 categories of election? Can you show that any of the categories were chosen for salvation? Of course you can't. Because they weren't."

Here's some more:
"I have a question for you. Do you believe that God was pleased to save those who believe, or not?

I believe that He is pleased to save those who believe.

The very fact that He is pleased to save those who believe demonstrates that He chooses to save those who believe.

Now, where is the verse that plainly tells us that God chooses who will believe? "

It would be nice if these questions would be addressed and answered according to your views.

You say the basis for salvation is faith alone.. then you say no one is saved by their act of believing.. then say, they are saved by God who saves those who believe. No doubt God saves those who believe!! The just live by faith! But faith in and of itself is a means by which the elect rest in Christ Jesus who justifies and saves through His redemptive work.

And I've said nothing contrary to this. Yes, faith is the means by which God saves people. iow, He saves those who believe. But it is God alone who does the saving; not our act of believing. Those who believe their action of believing is what saves them, they have effectively made themselves their own savior.

Gods grace and Christ Jesus and His merits is the basis of salvation to them that believe.

Agreed.

But faith in Christ, is itself a gift from a regenerated heart God gives to them He has chosen in Christ.

Please show me where believing in Christ is a gift. And where regeneration precedes believing.

Which you deny. Like I said before, I'm sure you aren't ignorant of "Calvinism". Usually those who insist they are neither Arminian or Calvinist when it comes to soteriology, are actually staunch Arminians.

your opinion is noted. And rejected as far as it relates to my views.

Please tell me what you disagree with about Arminianism besides your belief in the security of the believer?

Their views on free will are just as screwed up as the Calvinists. Just in different ways.

Now, please address the questions that I repeated here. Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So, did you 'come to' Jesus? That pretty much exposes your example of a beggar.

How did you 'come to' Jesus? Also, did you strive to enter the narrow gate, which leads to life?

I've tired of your games. When a serious discussion is finally demonstrated, I'll rejoin.

 

[EmSw]

I've tired of your games. When a serious discussion is finally demonstrated, I'll rejoin.

Well, did you 'come to' Jesus or not? I'm sorry you think the words of Jesus is a game to you.

How is it you will find eternal life if you don't 'come to' Him? I thought you believed in Him. Do you believe His words when He says to STRIVE to enter the narrow gate?

If Jesus tells you these words, will you walk away from Him, too? Will you tell Him you don't believe what He says?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Well, did you 'come to' Jesus or not? I'm sorry you think the words of Jesus is a game to you.

How is it you will find eternal life if you don't 'come to' Him? I thought you believed in Him. Do you believe His words when He says to STRIVE to enter the narrow gate?

If Jesus tells you these words, will you walk away from Him, too? Will you tell Him you don't believe what He says?

If there are any disagreements with the OP, please address each one and show why and how they are in error.

 

[EmSw]

If there are any disagreements with the OP, please address each one and show why and how they are in error.

So, you can't tell us if you 'came to' Jesus or not. You had rather deflect it to something else. I will ask again and let's see if you can answer this time.

How is it you will find eternal life if you don't 'come to' Him? I thought you believed in Him.

Do you believe His words when He says to STRIVE to enter the narrow gate?

If Jesus tells you these words, will you walk away from Him, too?

Will you tell Him you don't believe what He says?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I challenged this poster to actually engage with the OP, but so far, he's only showed an inability to do so.

So I'll humor him by answering each of his questions. But will there be any engagement with the OP?

So, you can't tell us if you 'came to' Jesus or not.

I've said so many times. I've put my faith in Jesus Christ for eternal life.

You had rather deflect it to something else. I will ask again and let's see if you can answer this time.

Did. Just now. Again.

How is it you will find eternal life if you don't 'come to' Him? I thought you believed in Him.

I already have eternal life, because I believe in Him.

Do you believe His words when He says to STRIVE to enter the narrow gate?

I believe what He says. But unlike your own views, I don't believe that Jesus ever contradicted Himself.

If Jesus tells you these words, will you walk away from Him, too?

Not my plan.

Will you tell Him you don't believe what He says?

I believe what He says.

Now that I've answered all your questions, if there is any disagreement with anything in the OP, please show how and why any of them are in error.

 

[Ron Gurley]

OP: Q1: " The Biblical "doctrine" of "election" ??

A1: This OP has absolutely nothing to do with the false doctrine of Calvinistic-spawned "election" ...the irrevocable and irresistible PRE-selection by God of who will (and will NOT) be saved unto eternal spiritual life.

Matthew 24:22,24,31 (NASB)...Jesus: Prophecy of the "end of the ages"
And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet
and they will gather together His ELECT from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

elect...Greek 1588...eklektos...
I.picked out, chosen
A.chosen by God,
i.to obtain salvation through Christ (BELIEVERS/SAINTS!)
a.Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
ii.the Messiah is called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
iii.choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians

Mark 13:27 (NASB)...
And then He will send forth the angels,
and will gather together His ELECT from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

Matthew 13: 36-43 (NASB)...Jesus explains the parable of the Wheat (believers) and the Tares (UNbelievers)
And His disciples came to Him and said,
“Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
37 And He said,
“The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man (Jesus),
38 and the field is the world;
and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom;
and the tares are the sons of the evil one;
39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil,
and the harvest is the end of the age;
and the reapers are angels.
40 So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
41 The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and
they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; ("lake of fire" of Revelation?)
in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous (elect) will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Man has a spiritual "FREE WILL" CHOICE to make!
I am NOT a puppet nor pre-marked by God for salvation.
I BELIEVED! John 3 AS EXPLAINED in Ephesians 2