The biblical doctrine of election

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There are at least 6 different categories of who has been elected as revealed in Scripture:

Categories of Election

1. Election of Christ: Isa 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.

Matt 12:18 "Behold, My Servant whom I have chosen; My Beloved in whom My soul is well-pleased; I will put My Spirit upon Him, And He shall proclaim justice to the Gentiles.

Luke 9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"

Luke 23:35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, "He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen One.

1 Peter 2:6 For this is contained in Scripture: "Behold I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him shall not be disappointed."

2. Election of Israel: Amos 3:2 "You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore, I will punish you for all your iniquities."

Deut 7:6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

3. Election of Angels: 1 Tim 5:21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.

4. Election of the Church or body of Christ: Eph 1:4a just as He chose us (believers) in Him…

5. Other elections:

Paul: Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;

Apostles: John 15:16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you , and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask of the Father in My name, He may give to you.

None of these categories were chosen for salvation, but for service to God.

There are 3 Greek words associated with divine election:

eklegomai, a verb occurring 21 times
Mk 13:20 Lk 6:13 Luke 10:42 Luke 14:7 Jn 6:70 John 13:18 John 15:16 Acts 1:2 Acts 1:24 Acts 6:5 Acts 13:17 Acts 15:7 Acts 15:22 Acts 15:25 1 Cor 1:27-28 Eph 1:4 James 2:5
eklektos, an adjective occurring 23 times
Mark 13:20 Matt 20:16 Matt 24:22 Matt 24:24 Matt 24:31 Mark 13:22 Mark 13:27 Luke 18:7 Rom 8:33 Rom 16:13 Col 3:12 1 Tim 5:21 2 Tim 2:10-11 Titus 1:1 1 Peter 1:1 1 Peter 2:6 1 Peter 2:9 2 John 1 2 John 13 Rev 17:14
ekloge, a noun, meaning “a choice”, occurring 6 times
Acts 9:15 Rom 9:11 Rom 11:5 Rom 11:7 Rom 11:28 2 Peter 1:10

None of these verses speak of being chosen for salvation.

The single verse that does speak of being chosen for salvation is 2 Thess 2:13 - But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

The Greek word for "and" between 'sanctifying work' and 'through belief' is "kai" and is translated thus:
NT:2532 kai (kahee); apparently, a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force; and, also, even, so then, too, etc.; often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words:

KJV - and, also, both, but, even, for, if, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yet.

SInce we're not saved by 2 separate actions, that being "the sanctifying work of the Spirit" as well as "through belief in the truth", it seems that 'kai' is better understood as "even", which equates the apparently 2 actions.

iow, when one believes in the truth (gospel), one IS sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

This shows that God chooses to save those who believe.

Also, the Greek word for "chose" here is not related to any of the 3 Greek words translated "elect/election". It is "haireomai". Never translated as an action of electing.

All elections are a choice, but not all choices are an election.

Paul put it another way in 1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
 
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John Hyperspace

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This shows that God chooses to save those who believe.

But that begs the question of, who is responsible for belief? To believe you have to first understand, and understanding appears to be the gift of God to whomever He chooses, when he chooses. Which means a person cannot believe anything until God directly intervenes and gives them understanding. Now as for belief from understanding, Peter confessed his belief and Jesus said, flesh and blood hadn't revealed the truth to him, but that the Father had revealed it to him.

If we look at Christianity as a whole, it's filled with contradictory beliefs; so the question is, surely all professing Christians would want to believe the truth, so why haven't they all chosen to believe the truth yet? Clearly they haven't since they're not preaching the same "truth" - so apparently most of us (if not all) aren't yet even beginning to understand, and you can't believe unless you first understand. Granted, a lot of people seem to think they understand, but how can anyone be sure that their understanding is correct?
 
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PrettyboyAndy

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Beautiful post!

Didnt realize how much was elected!

Everything in creation is ordained and elected by God

There are at least 6 different categories of who has been elected as revealed in Scripture:

Categories of Election

1. Election of Christ: Isa 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.

Matt 12:18 "Behold, My Servant whom I have chosen; My Beloved in whom My soul is well-pleased; I will put My Spirit upon Him, And He shall proclaim justice to the Gentiles.

Luke 9:35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"

Luke 23:35 And the people stood by, looking on. And even the rulers were sneering at Him, saying, "He saved others; let Him save Himself if this is the Christ of God, His Chosen One.

1 Peter 2:6 For this is contained in Scripture: "Behold I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, And he who believes in Him shall not be disappointed."

2. Election of Israel: Amos 3:2 "You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore, I will punish you for all your iniquities."

Deut 7:6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

3. Election of Angels: 1 Tim 5:21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.

4. Election of the Church or body of Christ: Eph 1:4a just as He chose us (believers) in Him…

5. Other elections:

Paul: Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;

Apostles: John 15:16 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you , and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask of the Father in My name, He may give to you.

None of these categories were chosen for salvation, but for service to God.

There are 3 Greek words associated with divine election:

eklegomai, a verb occurring 21 times
Mk 13:20 Lk 6:13 Luke 10:42 Luke 14:7 Jn 6:70 John 13:18 John 15:16 Acts 1:2 Acts 1:24 Acts 6:5 Acts 13:17 Acts 15:7 Acts 15:22 Acts 15:25 1 Cor 1:27-28 Eph 1:4 James 2:5
eklektos, an adjective occurring 23 times
Mark 13:20 Matt 20:16 Matt 24:22 Matt 24:24 Matt 24:31 Mark 13:22 Mark 13:27 Luke 18:7 Rom 8:33 Rom 16:13 Col 3:12 1 Tim 5:21 2 Tim 2:10-11 Titus 1:1 1 Peter 1:1 1 Peter 2:6 1 Peter 2:9 2 John 1 2 John 13 Rev 17:14
ekloge, a noun, meaning “a choice”, occurring 6 times
Acts 9:15 Rom 9:11 Rom 11:5 Rom 11:7 Rom 11:28 2 Peter 1:10

None of these verses speak of being chosen for salvation.

The single verse that does speak of being chosen for salvation is 2 Thess 2:13 - But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

The Greek word for "and" between 'sanctifying work' and 'through belief' is "kai" and is translated thus:
NT:2532 kai (kahee); apparently, a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force; and, also, even, so then, too, etc.; often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words:

KJV - and, also, both, but, even, for, if, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yet.

SInce we're not saved by 2 separate actions, that being "the sanctifying work of the Spirit" as well as "through belief in the truth", it seems that 'kai' is better understood as "even", which equates the apparently 2 actions.

iow, when one believes in the truth (gospel), one IS sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

This shows that God chooses to save those who believe.

Also, the Greek word for "chose" here is not related to any of the 3 Greek words translated "elect/election". It is "haireomai". Never translated as an action of electing.

All elections are a choice, but not all choices are an election.

Paul put it another way in 1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
 
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AnnaliseH

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Everything in creation is ordained and elected by God

I wouldn't have put it quite like that. Yes, everything in creation is designed by God, set into motion by God, and maintained by God. Yes, you could say that the saved are elected to eternal life - and the unsaved (those who never do come to saving faith in their lifetime) are elected to damnation.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I said this:
"This shows that God chooses to save those who believe."
But that begs the question of, who is responsible for belief?
Rom 10:9 says that man believes from the heart. There are no verses that teach that God is the cause of man's belief. In fact, just the opposite; man is encouraged, persuaded to believe.

To believe you have to first understand, and understanding appears to be the gift of God to whomever He chooses, when he chooses. Which means a person cannot believe anything until God directly intervenes and gives them understanding.
I believe that goes too far. Rom 10:13-15 teaches that man does have to understand before he can believe, but there isn't anything in the Bible about God choosing who will understand.

Now as for belief from understanding, Peter confessed his belief and Jesus said, flesh and blood hadn't revealed the truth to him, but that the Father had revealed it to him.
It's revealed through Scripture, which is God's Word.

If we look at Christianity as a whole, it's filled with contradictory beliefs; so the question is, surely all professing Christians would want to believe the truth, so why haven't they all chosen to believe the truth yet? Clearly they haven't since they're not preaching the same "truth" - so apparently most of us (if not all) aren't yet even beginning to understand, and you can't believe unless you first understand. Granted, a lot of people seem to think they understand, but how can anyone be sure that their understanding is correct?
From your conclusions, I guess we should just all go home and "eat and drink, for tomorrow we will die", per James.

I strongly disagree with the conclusion that the Bible is "filled with contradictory beliefs". That isn't even possible. When one thinks such, they are misunderstanding at least one side of the issue. No verse contradicts any other verse, or God simply isn't God.

It was interesting that you picked out just one line of the OP to comment about. What about the categories of election? Didn't that prove that election isn't about being chosen for salvation?
 
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FreeGrace2

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I wouldn't have put it quite like that. Yes, everything in creation is designed by God, set into motion by God, and maintained by God. Yes, you could say that the saved are elected to eternal life - and the unsaved (those who never do come to saving faith in their lifetime) are elected to damnation.
Except the Bible doesn't "put it quite like that".

The Bible does say that God is "pleased to save those who believe" (1 Cor 1:21) without ever even suggesting that God chooses who will believe.

I gave all the verses containing the 3 Greek words related to the verb and adjective 'elect' and the noun 'election', and none of them mention being elected or chosen for either salvation or eternal life.

It is believers who are elected, and that is for service, as Eph 1:4 says.
 
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MDC

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Except the Bible doesn't "put it quite like that".

The Bible does say that God is "pleased to save those who believe" (1 Cor 1:21) without ever even suggesting that God chooses who will believe.

I gave all the verses containing the 3 Greek words related to the verb and adjective 'elect' and the noun 'election', and none of them mention being elected or chosen for either salvation or eternal life.

It is believers who are elected, and that is for service, as Eph 1:4 says.
Divine sovereign grace is the CAUSE of saving faith in a believer. One must be quickened in order to receive the things of the Spirit, via hearing the Word of God. Ephesians 1:4 you use speaks of not only the fruit or service of a believer, but ones election in salvation, if you continue to read in context. That's so clear. Jesus in John 6 speaks of sovereign grace in that," All that the Father gives me WILL come to me.. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I'll raise him up on the last day.. Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.." The scripture in John 10:28 that you use for eternal security speaks on why they are secure. Sovereign grace! It is those whom the Father has given Christ who shall never perish.. It is Christ who is died and who is risen. Eternal life rest in the person and work of Christ Jesus, and that by the Sovereign elective grace whom God freely chooses to bestow it on, as Romans 9 so clearly states. Salvation isn't synergistic
 
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FreeGrace2

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Romans 9:18-19
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
You've quoted Rom 9:16 and now 18-19, but without any comments.

What do you think these 3 verses are teaching? And how to they relate to the OP?
Thanks.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Divine sovereign grace is the CAUSE of saving faith in a believer.
OK, your view is that God is the cause of believing. Where is that actually taught in Scripture?

One must be quickened in order to receive the things of the Spirit, via hearing the Word of God.
Where is that taught in Scripture?

I have to assume, since you didn't provide any source for your comment, that you're thinking of Eph 2:5 - "made us alive (quickened) with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved."

However, note that this quickening is "with Christ", and Paul previously in Ephesians explains how one is sealed with Christ: 1:13 - And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

So, when one hears the truth (gospel) and when they believe it, they are "included in Christ" and "marked in Him with a seal".

Ephesians 1:4 you use speaks of not only the fruit or service of a believer, but ones election in salvation, if you continue to read in context. That's so clear.
Actually, the verse is quite clear about the purpose for God choosing the believer: " For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight."

There isn't anything in v.4 or the context to conclude that this election is for salvation. In fact, v.4 plainly states that He chose us to be holy and blameless in His sight. This is about service, not salvation, as the OP states.

The only way any believer can really serve God is by being holy and blameless. Anything less than that does not, and cannot, serve God.

Also, Paul was clear about what he meant by "us" in v.4 by defining it in 1:19 - "and his incomparably great power for us who believe."

So, the "us" of v.4 is the same "us" of v.19, which is believers.

So, the election of 1:4 is for believers. Not an election to believe, or for salvation.

Jesus in John 6 speaks of sovereign grace in that," All that the Father gives me WILL come to me.. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I'll raise him up on the last day.. Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.."
John 6:45 refutes the notion that God chooses who will believe. It is only those who have "heard and learned from the Father" who come to Jesus.

Yet, the first part of v.45 is critically important, which was left out in your post, "all have been taught by the Father".

So, all have been taught, but ONLY those who listened and learned will come to Jesus. Nothing about God choosing who will believe.

The scripture in John 10:28 that you use for eternal security speaks on why they are secure. Sovereign grace!
Of course our eternal security is because of God's grace. But that doesn't address anything close to God choosing who will believe.

It is those whom the Father has given Christ who shall never perish..
No, it is those to whom Jesus gives eternal life who WILL NEVER PERISH.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

The "them" are "My sheep". How does one become one of His sheep? By fulfilling John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

The Bible says "whoever believes will never perish" in Jn 3:16.

It is Christ who is died and who is risen. Eternal life rest in the person and work of Christ Jesus, and that by the Sovereign elective grace whom God freely chooses to bestow it on, as Romans 9 so clearly states.
Yes, God is free to give the free gift of eternal life to whomever He wants. And the Bible tells us exactly who that is: 1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Salvation isn't synergistic
The free act of believing by a sinner isn't synergistic. To be "synergistic" means to participate or help in causing salvation. Believing does no such thing.

Man is saved by grace through faith, not by works, per Eph 2:8-9. That's not synergistic.

I reject synergism. As well as the notion that God chooses who will believe.

He does choose to save those who believe.
 
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MDC

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OK, your view is that God is the cause of believing. Where is that actually taught in Scripture?


Where is that taught in Scripture?

I have to assume, since you didn't provide any source for your comment, that you're thinking of Eph 2:5 - "made us alive (quickened) with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved."

However, note that this quickening is "with Christ", and Paul previously in Ephesians explains how one is sealed with Christ: 1:13 - And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

So, when one hears the truth (gospel) and when they believe it, they are "included in Christ" and "marked in Him with a seal".


Actually, the verse is quite clear about the purpose for God choosing the believer: " For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight."

There isn't anything in v.4 or the context to conclude that this election is for salvation. In fact, v.4 plainly states that He chose us to be holy and blameless in His sight. This is about service, not salvation, as the OP states.

The only way any believer can really serve God is by being holy and blameless. Anything less than that does not, and cannot, serve God.

Also, Paul was clear about what he meant by "us" in v.4 by defining it in 1:19 - "and his incomparably great power for us who believe."

So, the "us" of v.4 is the same "us" of v.19, which is believers.

So, the election of 1:4 is for believers. Not an election to believe, or for salvation.


John 6:45 refutes the notion that God chooses who will believe. It is only those who have "heard and learned from the Father" who come to Jesus.

Yet, the first part of v.45 is critically important, which was left out in your post, "all have been taught by the Father".

So, all have been taught, but ONLY those who listened and learned will come to Jesus. Nothing about God choosing who will believe.


Of course our eternal security is because of God's grace. But that doesn't address anything close to God choosing who will believe.


No, it is those to whom Jesus gives eternal life who WILL NEVER PERISH.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

The "them" are "My sheep". How does one become one of His sheep? By fulfilling John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

The Bible says "whoever believes will never perish" in Jn 3:16.


Yes, God is free to give the free gift of eternal life to whomever He wants. And the Bible tells us exactly who that is: 1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.


The free act of believing by a sinner isn't synergistic. To be "synergistic" means to participate or help in causing salvation. Believing does no such thing.

Man is saved by grace through faith, not by works, per Eph 2:8-9. That's not synergistic.

I reject synergism. As well as the notion that God chooses who will believe.

He does choose to save those who believe.
But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:13. No doubt the means by which God calls His elect to Himself in Christ is by faith. But faith in Christ is a result of a regenerated heart, coming from the hearing of the Word by the power of the Spirit. You have the cart before the horse. For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate.. whom He predestinate, them He also called, and whom He called, them He also justified, and whom He justified, them He also glorified.. Romans8:29-30. All of salvation is by the sovereign decree and grace of God in Christ. But yet you refuse to believe that. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:13. Romans 9:16 says the same thing but you refuse to believe it.
 
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MDC

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OK, your view is that God is the cause of believing. Where is that actually taught in Scripture?


Where is that taught in Scripture?

I have to assume, since you didn't provide any source for your comment, that you're thinking of Eph 2:5 - "made us alive (quickened) with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved."

However, note that this quickening is "with Christ", and Paul previously in Ephesians explains how one is sealed with Christ: 1:13 - And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

So, when one hears the truth (gospel) and when they believe it, they are "included in Christ" and "marked in Him with a seal".


Actually, the verse is quite clear about the purpose for God choosing the believer: " For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight."

There isn't anything in v.4 or the context to conclude that this election is for salvation. In fact, v.4 plainly states that He chose us to be holy and blameless in His sight. This is about service, not salvation, as the OP states.

The only way any believer can really serve God is by being holy and blameless. Anything less than that does not, and cannot, serve God.

Also, Paul was clear about what he meant by "us" in v.4 by defining it in 1:19 - "and his incomparably great power for us who believe."

So, the "us" of v.4 is the same "us" of v.19, which is believers.

So, the election of 1:4 is for believers. Not an election to believe, or for salvation.


John 6:45 refutes the notion that God chooses who will believe. It is only those who have "heard and learned from the Father" who come to Jesus.

Yet, the first part of v.45 is critically important, which was left out in your post, "all have been taught by the Father".

So, all have been taught, but ONLY those who listened and learned will come to Jesus. Nothing about God choosing who will believe.


Of course our eternal security is because of God's grace. But that doesn't address anything close to God choosing who will believe.


No, it is those to whom Jesus gives eternal life who WILL NEVER PERISH.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

The "them" are "My sheep". How does one become one of His sheep? By fulfilling John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

The Bible says "whoever believes will never perish" in Jn 3:16.


Yes, God is free to give the free gift of eternal life to whomever He wants. And the Bible tells us exactly who that is: 1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.


The free act of believing by a sinner isn't synergistic. To be "synergistic" means to participate or help in causing salvation. Believing does no such thing.

Man is saved by grace through faith, not by works, per Eph 2:8-9. That's not synergistic.

I reject synergism. As well as the notion that God chooses who will believe.

He does choose to save those who believe.
The first chapter of Ephesians has everything to do with salvation and the blessings that come with it in Christ. The choosing of the elect in Christ was done in love as vs 5 states. According to His grace and will. We are adopted in love and according to His will, to the praise of His grace as vs 6 states. We have redemption in Him through His blood, the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and UNDERSTANDING according to vs 7 and 8. Made known to us the mystery of His will, according to the good pleasure that He purposed in Himself, according to vs 9. We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works out everything after the council of His own will, according to vs 11. All done for His glory, in Christ!! So you are mislead into thinking that ones volition is the CAUSE of salvation. And rather inconsistent. Apart from regeneration, mans desires and volition is in bondage to his sinful nature and cannot know the things of the Spirit. Guilty and Dead in sin
 
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FreeGrace2

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But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:13. No doubt the means by which God calls His elect to Himself in Christ is by faith.
I already addressed this verse in the OP:
"The single verse that does speak of being chosen for salvation is 2 Thess 2:13 - But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

The Greek word for "and" between 'sanctifying work' and 'through belief' is "kai" and is translated thus:
NT:2532 kai (kahee); apparently, a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force; and, also, even, so then, too, etc.; often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words:

KJV - and, also, both, but, even, for, if, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yet.

SInce we're not saved by 2 separate actions, that being "the sanctifying work of the Spirit" as well as "through belief in the truth", it seems that 'kai' is better understood as "even", which equates the apparently 2 actions.

iow, when one believes in the truth (gospel), one IS sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

This shows that God chooses to save those who believe.

Also, the Greek word for "chose" here is not related to any of the 3 Greek words translated "elect/election". It is "haireomai". Never translated as an action of electing."

But faith in Christ is a result of a regenerated heart, coming from the hearing of the Word by the power of the Spirit.
You've yet to provide any verse that says this.

You have the cart before the horse.
We're not talking horses and carts. We're talking about what God's Word says. And it doesn't say that one is regenerated before they believe.

All you're doing is giving "reformed talking points".

For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate.. whom He predestinate, them He also called, and whom He called, them He also justified, and whom He justified, them He also glorified.. Romans8:29-30.
Where are the words about the order being regenerated before belief?

All of salvation is by the sovereign decree and grace of God in Christ.
Of course it is. That isn't the issue.

But yet you refuse to believe that.
You're wrong about that. What would make one come to such a conclusion from any of my posts?

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:13.
This verse does not support the claim about being regenerated before belief. What it plainly does say is that our new birth is of God, which is not physical (not of blood), nor by our own choice to be born again (will of the flesh). By saying "but of God", means that our new birth, being born again, is from God. He's the One who does the birthing. Not us.

But the verse gives NO indication of the order of regeneration and believing.

Romans 9:16 says the same thing but you refuse to believe it.
You're wrong about that as well. It doesn't "say the same thing" as Jn 1:13and I'll prove it by quoting the verse: " It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy."

See? Nothing about sequencing of either regeneration or believing.

However, there IS a verse that does tell us the order or sequence. Eph 2:5 with 2:8.
2:5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

The phrase "made us alive with Christ" in 2:5 refers to regeneration or the new birth. The last phrase "it is by grace you have been saved" equates being saved with being made alive.

Now, on to v.8: our salvation comes through faith, which is equated with being "made alive" in v.5.

So, in fact, our action of believing and our being "made alive" or being born again occur simultaneously.
 
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FreeGrace2

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The first chapter of Ephesians has everything to do with salvation and the blessings that come with it in Christ.
You're making statements but not backing them up with Scripture. Eph 1:4 is very clear about the PURPOSE of our being chosen by God. And it isn't for salvation. It's for service to Him by being holy and blameless.

Do you think a believer can serve God APART from being holy and blameless? I don't.

The choosing of the elect in Christ was done in love as vs 5 states.
No one argues that God's actions towards believers is done by anything less than love. But to say "the choosing of the elect" is quite redundant. It's no different than saying "the choosing of the choosees" or "the elect of the elect".

So, let's say it the way Paul did in Eph 1:4 - God chose us (believers) to be holy and blameless.

According to His grace and will. We are adopted in love and according to His will, to the praise of His grace as vs 6 states. We have redemption in Him through His blood, the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and UNDERSTANDING according to vs 7 and 8. Made known to us the mystery of His will, according to the good pleasure that He purposed in Himself, according to vs 9. We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestinated according to the purpose of Him who works out everything after the council of His own will, according to vs 11. All done for His glory, in Christ!! So you are mislead into thinking that ones volition is the CAUSE of salvation. And rather inconsistent. Apart from regeneration, mans desires and volition is in bondage to his sinful nature and cannot know the things of the Spirit. Guilty and Dead in sin
None of this points to God choosing who will believe, but rather choosing believers for a specific purpose: to be holy and blameless, which is required for service.
 
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You're making statements but not backing them up with Scripture. Eph 1:4 is very clear about the PURPOSE of our being chosen by God. And it isn't for salvation. It's for service to Him by being holy and blameless.

Do you think a believer can serve God APART from being holy and blameless? I don't.


No one argues that God's actions towards believers is done by anything less than love. But to say "the choosing of the elect" is quite redundant. It's no different than saying "the choosing of the choosees" or "the elect of the elect".

So, let's say it the way Paul did in Eph 1:4 - God chose us (believers) to be holy and blameless.


None of this points to God choosing who will believe, but rather choosing believers for a specific purpose: to be holy and blameless, which is required for service.
To separate service, which accompanies salvation, from individual election in salvation is nonsense. Since you must find it offensive and unfair in some way that salvation has always been on the BASIS of divine election and the mercy of God as Romans 9 teaches, you have managed to manipulate and twist Ephesians 1 and John 6 to your own synergistic meaning of grace. So tell me, how do you interpret Acts 13:48. "and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.?" If God saves on the basis of anything in a sinner, then it is of works and not of grace. It is pelagians and arminians who have perverted the true meaning of Gods grace in salvation. And is why the righteousness of Christ is offensive. True salvation, by the Sovereign God and by the power of His Spirit, brings a sinner to know his guilt and wretchedness, and gives him a heart of flesh, to lay hold upon Christ Jesus and His merits alone to be redeemed. That's the work of Sovereign grace
 
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AnnaliseH

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Do you think a believer can serve God APART from being holy and blameless? I don't.

Quite right, but living holy and blameless lives is an EFFECT of our being Christians, not a CAUSE.

Romans 8:29- 30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
The above verses do imply an order of events. For whom he did foreknow (those whom he decided upon), he also did predestinate (chose) to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate (choose), them he also called (the calling of each believer ) : and whom he called, them he also justified (by the death of His Son on the Cross): and whom he justified, them he also glorified (I think the meaning of that is pretty obvious).

You're wrong about that as well. It doesn't "say the same thing" as Jn 1:13and I'll prove it by quoting the verse: " It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy."
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort. In other words, it does not depend on a man's desire to be saved, or upon his effort to live holy and blameless lives. It depends on God showing them mercy, on His choosing of them. Which is the point I was trying to make with the verses I quoted earlier. I thought that their meaning was quite obvious. No need for commentary.
 
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FreeGrace2

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To separate service, which accompanies salvation, from individual election in salvation is nonsense.
You haven't yet shown any Scripture that teaches that anyone is elected to salvation. I've shown 6 different categories of election that clearly were not about salvation.

Since you must find it offensive and unfair in some way that salvation has always been on the BASIS of divine election and the mercy of God as Romans 9 teaches, you have managed to manipulate and twist Ephesians 1 and John 6 to your own synergistic meaning of grace.
Please show the exact verse(s) in Romans 9 that teaches that salvation is by election.

So tell me, how do you interpret Acts 13:48.
Properly. That's how I understand it. Have you done any research into the Greek? I'm no Greek expert, but I do have lexicons and Greek grammar texts that explain what words mean and how Greek grammar works.

"and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.?"
The Greek word for "ordained/appointed" is 'tasso'.
NT:5021 tasso (tas'-so); a prolonged form of a primary verb (which latter appears only in certain tenses); to arrange in an orderly manner, i.e. assign or dispose (to a certain position or lot)

So, "to arrange in an orderly manner" is another way of saying "to line up".

Now, let's examine the context; v.42-44
42 As Paul and Barnabas were leaving the synagogue, the people invited them to speak further about these things on the next Sabbath.
43 When the congregation was dismissed, many of the Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who talked with them and urged them to continue in the grace of God.
44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord.

Rather obvious that many were very interested in what Paul was preaching and they certainly "lined up" to hear him the next Sabbath.

The final point is that the word 'tasso' is in a form that is the same for both the middle and passive voice, so the only way to determine which voice was meant is to consider the context.

If the form was passive, then it would be clear that they didn't line themselves up to hear Paul and believe. But since v.42-44 shows their interest, the middle voice is supported, which means they lined themselves up. (for eternal life).

I expect this answer will not satisfy those who will continue to want to believe in Calvin's teachings on election. But I've given solid reasons for the fact that Acts 13:48 does NOT say anything about God choosing (appointing or ordaining) anyone to eternal life.

If God saves on the basis of anything in a sinner, then it is of works and not of grace.
It's sad that one would consider the simple act of receiving God's gift as something of works. How ridiculous. Throughout the NT, receiving God's salvation or eternal life is in the passive voice, proving that man did not in any way participate in getting saved.

Only if one can show that the simple act of receiving materially participates in obtaining a gift would your claim be justified.

But your claim is refuted by Paul's clear words in Rom 4:4,5 and Eph 2:8,9.

It is pelagians and arminians who have perverted the true meaning of Gods grace in salvation.
And I absolutely AGREE with you on this. Which is why I'm NOT either one of those.

And is why the righteousness of Christ is offensive.
Yes, they have no clue about His righteousness. But I am convinced that we are saved ONLY because of His righteousness and cross work.

True salvation, by the Sovereign God and by the power of His Spirit, brings a sinner to know his guilt and wretchedness, and gives him a heart of flesh, to lay hold upon Christ Jesus and His merits alone to be redeemed. That's the work of Sovereign grace
This speaks of the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit. But it doesn't lead to God choosing who will believe, which is the foundation of reformed election.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I said this:
"Do you think a believer can serve God APART from being holy and blameless? I don't."
Quite right, but living holy and blameless lives is an EFFECT of our being Christians, not a CAUSE.
Absolutely correct! I totally agree. But I'm not sure why you're making this point. Why would one think I thought that living holy and blameless lives would be a cause of being a Christian?

Romans 8:29- 30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
The above verses do imply an order of events. For whom he did foreknow (those whom he decided upon), he also did predestinate (chose) to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate (choose), them he also called (the calling of each believer ) : and whom he called, them he also justified (by the death of His Son on the Cross): and whom he justified, them he also glorified (I think the meaning of that is pretty obvious).
I'm very much aware of the order here. However, let's examine His foreknowledge a bit. But first, btw, the parenthesis (those whom He decided upon) isn't what His foreknowledge is about. It's far more.

1 Peter 1
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

These verses plainly say that we were chosen (elected) by the foreknowledge of God. So, His election here is based on what He knows about us. So it's not just another way to say that He "knows who He chooses", as it seems your view is.

Does God know, from His omniscience, who will believe in Him? Of course He does. But Calvinism tries to ignore or dismiss God's omniscience in favor of His sovereign choices, as if one believes ONLY BECAUSE He elected them to believe. But this isn't taught anywhere in Scripture.

Also, note the purpose of this election in 1 Pet 1; "to be obedient to Jesus Christ". This is about service, not salvation.

Anyone who wants to argue that election is about being hosen for salvation, please address the 6 categories in the OP about election and the clear fact that none of these elections were about salvation.

It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort.
Exactly! But what is it that doesn't depend on human desire or effort? John 1:13 tells us plainly:
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

The subject is our regeneration, or being born again. That's what God does for those who believe. He gives them new birth. That's not our choice; it's His choice. Just as adoption as sons is His choice and not ours.

In other words, it does not depend on a man's desire to be saved, or upon his effort to live holy and blameless lives.
You've completely misread and misunderstood John 1:13. A saved person gets regenerated. That's the point.

It depends on God showing them mercy, on His choosing of them. Which is the point I was trying to make with the verses I quoted earlier. I thought that their meaning was quite obvious. No need for commentary.
The verses I provided in the OP along with all the categories of election are very clear. None of the categories of election involve being elected to salvation.

But if anyone can refute my claim by using these categories and show that all of them were chosen (elected) for salvation, be my guest.
 
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AnnaliseH

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Romans:7-8
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

If the carnal mind (the mind of the unsaved) is against God, if the unsaved cannot please God, how can they choose to believe? Belief would please God, yet it says that those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Therefore, the logical conclusion would be that since, in the unregenerate state, it is impossible to please God, God must take that first step. He gives us the faith whereby we can believe.
 
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