The Bible & Science on a Spherical Earth (Flat Earth Refuted)

[Bible Highlighter]

Astronauts mention flat Earthers while up in space looking at a round Earth.

Astronaut Terry Virts is asked if the Earth is flat and he basically said he went around the curvature of the Earth (and could see that it was round).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I have two post-graduate degrees including one from seminary so I'm somewhat capable of "believing" something through my own research, critical thinking, and analyses. This process is something that we should all be able to do but there are things that we simply take for granted because we have been taught so from an early age. For example, some of us believed in Santa Claus because we were told that he exists by our parents - until we found out otherwise at a later age. Some of us who did not grow up in Christian households, had to study the Bible before believing the claims of Christ and coming to faith. So it is with the heliocentric model of our earth. From the time we first entered grade-school, a globed-earth probably sat there in the classroom. When we went to the movie theater as kids, a Universal Pictures movie one show a globed earth before the movie started. The germane question is: Is the heliocentric model accurate based on the weight of empirical evidence and Scripture or is the geocentric model accurate based on the weight of empirical evidence and Scripture? It doesn't hurt to ask this question for yourself does it? In this internet age of easily available information, this topic is not difficult to explore.

I agree that this topic is not difficult to explore. You can see ships and buildings sinking below the horizon line (Which is not possible on a truly flat Earth). You can see certain constellations only from certain parts of the Earth. We see a round shadow on the moon and we do not see a shadow of a flat Earth. People live in the South Pole, and can provide 24 hours of video footage of daylight (Which is not possible on a flat Earth because the sun goes around the crust of the pizza you call an Earth). No evidence of any photos or videos of people discovering the ends of the Earth and yet we are able to go high above the atmosphere with rockets and take pictures and video footage of the Earth (that is round).

 

[Oldmantook]

The verse I quoted to you shows you that South is going down. Also, it is common knowledge that even on the most ancient maps, South is going down and North is going up. This would not be the case on a flat Earth. It would be a lie. Going up on the map would just be going to the center of a flat disc and it really would not be up. You can also only see the Southern cross constellation no farther than Hawaii or North Africa (25 degrees North of the equator in the Northern Hemisphere). Once you go farther up North, you cannot see the Southern cross constellation.

So...

#1. The Bible.
#2. Maps.
#3. Constellations

Works against you here.

1. No, you have taken that verse wholly out of context. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the topography of the Middle East. If I say to you go down that road and the road slopes downhill, does it mean that it is necessarily headed in a Southward direction? Of course not! It simply means that you are going on a road that descends. If you were to do more Bible study you would know that Jerusalem is built upon Mt. Zion - a high point in the area. Gaza by contrast is a near sea-level close to the Mediterranean Sea. You have made the simple mistake of conflating direction with elevation. All roads from Jerusalem are down (descent in elevation) from Jerusalem since the city is built on a high point. So for you to claim it is a lie demonstrates you have simply not studied enough.

2. Up and down on a map are meaningless. When you give someone directions from a map do you say go up, or go down or go sideways. Of course not as that would be of no help at all. Only directions matters. Nothing on a flat earth map conflicts with the direction.

3. In order to properly account for the constellations from a flat earth perspective you may not be aware that the Bible refers to the "firmament" in Genesis 1 which describes a vault or dome over the flat earth - picture a snow globe. Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, Gen 1:16-17. Does firmament of the heavens refer to "outer space" as we are taught that the sun, moon and stars exist beyond our atmosphere in the vacuum of outer space. That would be at odds with the creation account as Gen 1:20 states "Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.” Notice that this verse states that the birds fly across the face of the firmament. Birds fly in our atmosphere; not in the vacuum of outer space. According to these verses, in the atmosphere in which the birds fly, God also placed the sun, moon and stars. The domed firmament accounts for how we perceive the stars including the South Star Sigma Octantis.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The linear accelerator in the SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory is 2 miles long and it needs to be actually straight and not follow the curvature of the earth, otherwise the electrons will hit into the walls and the whole thing won't work. The curvature of the Earth is something like "8 inches a mile". Therefore the center of the accelerator is in fact closer to the Earth's center than the edges by about 8 inches.

This is also true for J-PARC (Japan Proton Accelerator Complex). Here's some documents on how curvature does matter while building that facility:

http://www.slac.stanford.edu/econf/C06092511/presents/TU004_PPT.PDF
http://www.slac.stanford.edu/econf/C04100411/papers/010.PDF

Source:
Why do bridge designs account for the Earth's curvature?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Here is another interesting part of a write up I found:

A classic experiment to demonstrate the curvature of a body of water is to place markers (like flags) a fixed distance above the water in a straight line, and then view them along that line in a telescope. If the water surface is flat then the markers will appear also in a straight line. If the surface of the water is curved (as it is here on Earth) then the markers in the middle will appear higher than the markers at the ends. Here's a highly exaggerated diagram of the effect by Alfred Russel Wallace in 1870:

This is a difficult experiment to do as you need a few miles for the curvature to be apparent. You also need the markers to be quite high above the surface of the water, as temperature differences between the water and the air tend to create significant refraction effects close to the water.

However Youtuber Soundly has found a spot where there's a very long line of markers permanently fixed at constant heights above the water line, clearly demonstrating the curve. It's a line of power transmission towers at Lake Pontchartrain, near New Orleans, Louisiana.

One objection you might make is that the towers could be curving to the right. However the same curve is apparent from both sides, so it can only be curving over the horizon.

Case closed? You would think so. But some raised the possibility that the images are faked - they are taken from a freeway, so require a little effort to duplicate. Soundly then went to incredible lengths to demonstrate they are not fake. Ultimately he did a live stream of himself taking the video, then driving to a cafe where he uploaded it to Youtube.
Here's the live stream:

Source:
Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1. No, you have taken that verse wholly out of context. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the topography of the Middle East. If I say to you go down that road and the road slopes downhill, does it mean that it is necessarily headed in a Southward direction? Of course not! It simply means that you are going on a road that descends. If you were to do more Bible study you would know that Jerusalem is built upon Mt. Zion - a high point in the area. Gaza by contrast is a near sea-level close to the Mediterranean Sea. You have made the simple mistake of conflating direction with elevation. All roads from Jerusalem are down (descent in elevation) from Jerusalem since the city is built on a high point. So for you to claim it is a lie demonstrates you have simply not studied enough.

2. Up and down on a map are meaningless. When you give someone directions from a map do you say go up, or go down or go sideways. Of course not as that would be of no help at all. Only directions matters. Nothing on a flat earth map conflicts with the direction.

3. In order to properly account for the constellations from a flat earth perspective you may not be aware that the Bible refers to the "firmament" in Genesis 1 which describes a vault or dome over the flat earth - picture a snow globe. Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, Gen 1:16-17. Does firmament of the heavens refer to "outer space" as we are taught that the sun, moon and stars exist beyond our atmosphere in the vacuum of outer space. That would be at odds with the creation account as Gen 1:20 states "Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.” Notice that this verse states that the birds fly across the face of the firmament. Birds fly in our atmosphere; not in the vacuum of outer space. According to these verses, in the atmosphere in which the birds fly, God also placed the sun, moon and stars. The domed firmament accounts for how we perceive the stars including the South Star Sigma Octantis.

Okay. You can look in super powered telescopes and see planets in our solar system and see stars far out beyond our galaxy.

Do you think the telescope astronomers use lies? Then get into telescopes and study them and look into the design of high powered telescopes.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You cannot see Kawaikini from the peak of Mauna Kea.

Mauna Kea, the highest peak in Hawaii (the summit of the Big Island), offers incredible views. With nothing but the ocean around it, and a few other nearby islands, you should be able to see extremely far away. The island of Kauai has the seventh highest point in the Hawaiian islands: the peak known as Kawaikini. If you were to draw a straight line from Mauna Kea (elevation: 13,796 ft.) to Kawaikini (elevation: 5226 ft.) it would span a distance of 303 miles.

However, you cannot see one from the other, which you would absolutely be able to do if the Earth were flat. With a curved Earth of its measured radius, the line-of-sight limit for those two elevations caps out at 233 miles. Only with a curved Earth is one invisible from the other, and this is true for any two mountain peaks with clear line-of-sights from one to the other.

Source:
Five Impossible Facts That Would Have To Be True If The Earth Were Flat

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1. No, you have taken that verse wholly out of context. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the topography of the Middle East. If I say to you go down that road and the road slopes downhill, does it mean that it is necessarily headed in a Southward direction? Of course not! It simply means that you are going on a road that descends. If you were to do more Bible study you would know that Jerusalem is built upon Mt. Zion - a high point in the area. Gaza by contrast is a near sea-level close to the Mediterranean Sea. You have made the simple mistake of conflating direction with elevation. All roads from Jerusalem are down (descent in elevation) from Jerusalem since the city is built on a high point. So for you to claim it is a lie demonstrates you have simply not studied enough.

Walking down on a hill is something you would obviously do in your observable sight regardless. It is talking about direction and elevation in regards to a map or how the world as a whole. Talking about going down the hill when that is obvious to one’s field of vision makes very little sense. That would be like saying, go South while you breathe oxygen. It would be redundant or non-sensical for the Bible to tell us something that is obvious to us. Does the Bible ever say, "Go up South?" No. Why doesn’t it mention the word hill in relation to going down South?

Why tell the reader about going down if going down was a matter of fact by the elevation that they can see? It only makes sense to tell me to go down South because that is what the maps say and that is what the world as a whole (When you look at it) says.

For if what you are saying is true: It would be like saying, "run a mile using your feet." It is logical to assume that one would not use their feet while running a mile.

 

[Oldmantook]

Okay. You can look in super powered telescopes and see planets in our solar system and see stars far out beyond our galaxy.

Do you think the telescope astronomers use lies? Then get into telescopes and study them and look into the design of high powered telescopes.

I don't think astronomers lie, unless they are Jesuit astronomers. One can go to school and study astronomy believing what is taught in the same manner that a child in kindergarten first learns that the earth is round. One can believe what one is taught without critically questioning the veracity of what is being taught. Why do you think the Catholic church to this day maintains an active interest in astronomy? The Vatican maintains an observatory on Mt. Graham in Tuscon, AZ. They share an instrument called L.U.C.I.F.E.R., which stands for “Large Binocular Telescope Near-infrared Utility with Camera and Integral Field Unit for Extragalactic Research." I believe the name has since been changed to LUCI for obvious reasons. I suggest you study the Jesuits and their role in changing the view of our cosmology from a geocentric to heliocentric model.
As far as the planets and stars being "far out and beyond our galaxy," how would you explain that God placed them IN THE FIRMAMENT in which the birds fly (Gen 1:17,20)? Either the birds fly in outer space or the celestial bodies exist in earth's atmosphere. It they exist in our atmosphere then the sun, moon and stars are much closer and much smaller than we are taught.

 

[Oldmantook]

Walking down on a hill is something you would obviously do in your observable sight regardless. It is talking about direction and elevation in regards to a map or how the world as a whole. Talking about going down the hill when that is obvious to one’s field of vision makes very little sense. That would be like saying, go South while you breathe oxygen. It would be redundant or non-sensical for the Bible to tell us something that is obvious to us. Does the Bible ever say, "Go up South?" No. Why doesn’t it mention the word hill in relation to going down South?

Why tell the reader about going down if going down was a matter of fact by the elevation that they can see? It only makes sense to tell me to go down South because that is what the maps say and that is what the world as a whole (When you look at it) says.

For if what you are saying is true: It would be like saying, "run a mile using your feet." It is logical to assume that one would not use their feet while running a mile.

Your were the one who unsuccessfully attempted to utilize scripture to make the claim that South means down. The fact is in case you haven't looked at the map of the Middle East yet, is that Gaza is South West from Jerusalem and down in elevation from Jerusalem. Both are true. The facts speak for themselves and if you choose to ignore them in order to hold on to your view, that is certainly your choice.

 

[Netgear]

I don't think astronomers lie, unless they are Jesuit astronomers. One can go to school and study astronomy believing what is taught in the same manner that a child in kindergarten first learns that the earth is round. One can believe what one is taught without critically questioning the veracity of what is being taught. Why do you think the Catholic church to this day maintains an active interest in astronomy? The Vatican maintains an observatory on Mt. Graham in Tuscon, AZ. They share an instrument called L.U.C.I.F.E.R., which stands for “Large Binocular Telescope Near-infrared Utility with Camera and Integral Field Unit for Extragalactic Research." I believe the name has since been changed to LUCI for obvious reasons. I suggest you study the Jesuits and their role in changing the view of our cosmology from a geocentric to heliocentric model.
As far as the planets and stars being "far out and beyond our galaxy," how would you explain that God placed them IN THE FIRMAMENT in which the birds fly (Gen 1:17,20)? Either the birds fly in outer space or the celestial bodies exist in earth's atmosphere. It they exist in our atmosphere then the sun, moon and stars are much closer and much smaller than we are taught.

Its obvious to me that you are looking at what is written in Genesis without truly understand what is written. Some people take various things very literally indeed. Too literally.

 

[Oldmantook]

Its obvious to me that you are looking at what is written in Genesis without truly understand what is written. Some people take various things very literally indeed. Too literally.

And at what point do you draw your own line and based on what scriptural warrant? I have openly explained my view and the scriptural reasons for it. You are of course free to disagree and better yet, attempt to give your own reasons.

 

[Netgear]

And at what point do you draw your own line and based on what scriptural warrant? I have openly explained my view and the scriptural reasons for it. You are of course free to disagree and better yet, attempt to give your own reasons.

I told you. You read it differently to me. I dont see it the same way as you do.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't think astronomers lie, unless they are Jesuit astronomers. One can go to school and study astronomy believing what is taught in the same manner that a child in kindergarten first learns that the earth is round. One can believe what one is taught without critically questioning the veracity of what is being taught. Why do you think the Catholic church to this day maintains an active interest in astronomy? The Vatican maintains an observatory on Mt. Graham in Tuscon, AZ. They share an instrument called L.U.C.I.F.E.R., which stands for “Large Binocular Telescope Near-infrared Utility with Camera and Integral Field Unit for Extragalactic Research." I believe the name has since been changed to LUCI for obvious reasons. I suggest you study the Jesuits and their role in changing the view of our cosmology from a geocentric to heliocentric model.
As far as the planets and stars being "far out and beyond our galaxy," how would you explain that God placed them IN THE FIRMAMENT in which the birds fly (Gen 1:17,20)? Either the birds fly in outer space or the celestial bodies exist in earth's atmosphere. It they exist in our atmosphere then the sun, moon and stars are much closer and much smaller than we are taught.

I do not seek out conspiracy theories. I know in these unsetting times some folks find comfort in them, but I choose to focus on God's Word and not in what men say (primarily). There are times I do quote secular sources, but I try not to make it a habit and try to make sure it is in line with what God's Word says. My daily bread is God's Word and not in what men try to imagine.

As for the telescope issue:

Again, you can simply study telescopes and how they work for yourself. I guarantee you that you will discover that there is no false imagery being displayed within them. If you turn on the magnification, you will see planets in our solar system. You turn on magnification some more and you will see stars farther out. This is basic science.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your were the one who unsuccessfully attempted to utilize scripture to make the claim that South means down. The fact is in case you haven't looked at the map of the Middle East yet, is that Gaza is South West from Jerusalem and down in elevation from Jerusalem. Both are true. The facts speak for themselves and if you choose to ignore them in order to hold on to your view, that is certainly your choice.

But why tell the reader to do the obvious?
Again, that would be like saying, "Breath oxygen while you type."
They will automatically know that they need to go down a hill by their own eyes.

But they would not know about going in the direction of South downwards based on a map and or looking at the entire scope of the world. God's Word not only speaks to individuals during their time, but it speaks to us today, too.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Homemade mini spacecraft (a camera with no fish eye lens on a weather balloon) reaches a high enough altitude to show that the Earth is curved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Axial Tilt of the Earth and the Changes of Seasons:

Flat Earth theorists now assert that the seasonal variations in the length of day/night isn't accounted for in the mainstream theory. This is rather silly, because one of the reasons it is so powerful is precisely because it does account for it.



You can see in this above picture an explanation of the seasons and day/night length.
So, let us first look at the seasons. As you can see in the above illustration the axis of rotation and the equator. Quite clearly, when you compare left/right, the position of the word 'the sun' is different with regards to the equator. In the left image, it is below the equator, and in the right image it is above the equator. That explains why there are seasons, for instance because of the Poynting theorem which is related the inclination angle of light to the (max) intensity absorbed. Wikipedia contains a rather nice animation which I recommend.

As for the length of day\night, this too can be readily seen in the picture. Draw the line that goes straight through the sun. This line intersects the globe. You can see that the darkened areas vary with latitude; and that explains the difference in day and night lengths.

Source:
200 Reasons why flat-earthers are simply wrong. (Rebuke: 200 Proofs the earth is not a spinning ball.)

 

[Oldmantook]

I told you. You read it differently to me. I dont see it the same way as you do.

You see it differently but you provide no basis or reason for your interpretation which I find to be quite lacking. Your choice.

 

[Oldmantook]

I do not seek out conspiracy theories. I know in these unsetting times some folks find comfort in them, but I choose to focus on God's Word and not in what men say (primarily). There are times I do quote secular sources, but I try not to make it a habit and try to make sure it is in line with what God's Word says. My daily bread is God's Word and not in what men try to imagine.

As for the telescope issue:

Again, you can simply study telescopes and how they work for yourself. I guarantee you that you will discover that there is no false imagery being displayed within them. If you turn on the magnification, you will see planets in our solar system. You turn on magnification some more and you will see stars farther out. This is basic science.

Indeed God's Word is our assurance. So how do you explain how the birds, sun, moon and stars are all placed in the firmament?
Indeed magnification works. But if the celestial bodies are placed in the firmament they are by necessity smaller and closer to the earth what we are told. Magnification works just as well with smaller, closer objects. So you choose basic science or the Bible? Your choice.

 

[Oldmantook]

Wj

But why tell the reader to do the obvious?
Again, that would be like saying, "Breath oxygen while you type."
They will automatically know that they need to go down a hill by their own eyes.

But they would not know about going in the direction of South downwards based on a map and or looking at the entire scope of the world. God's Word not only speaks to individuals during their time, but it speaks to us today, too.

Why tell the reader the obvious? It wasn't obvious to you was it? I had to explain it to you.
If you tell a person go down south that road and the road is sloping down in a southward direction, all you are doing is giving them accurate directions - redundancy is irrelevant. I would have no problem giving such directions but apparently you do.