The Bible Proves Evolution

[Hans Blaster]

I don't think you can honestly say that with evidence and/or an explanation as to how.

The statement to which I replied "almost certainly" seemed to be looking for an opinion. That science would have emerged without Christianity is my my opinion. I can honestly say that, but you don't have to accept my opinion, as that is all it is.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Exactly. This backs up my earlier point. The Bible is similar and may be studied with the rational mind. This is how we can separate reality from Darwin's fanciful religious beliefs.

Readers of the Koran can make an even stronger claim in that way. All you have done is make unsupported and unevidenced claims. @Hans Blaster told you some of the historic sources of the scientific method. It arose from several cultures. Christians are far from being the sole developers of it.

 

[Tone]

Readers of the Koran can make an even stronger claim in that way. All you have done is make unsupported and unevidenced claims. @Hans Blaster told you some of the historic sources of the scientific method. It arose from several cultures. Christians are far from being the sole developers of it.

The Bible arose from several cultures as well.

 

[Tone]

Christians are far from being the sole developers of it

Of the Scientific Method...no, but Darwinism...probably.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Bible arose from several cultures as well.

It was pretty much a Middle East thing.

Here is an article that explains how it began in Greece and finally arrived in today's form under the work of John Stuart Mill (who was an agnostic by the way, and most agnostics are also atheists):

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/scientific-method/#HisRevAriMil

Yet I do not claim that the scientific method comes from atheism.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Which kind of backs up my point.

Then I'm clearly not certain what your point was. I thought you were implying (or claiming) that modern science arises from Christianity and western culture.

My point was that western civilization is usually dated as starting with the ancient Greek cultures of the the 6th/7th century BCE (after a local dark age). It progresses through the Roman Republic then Empire and finally after nearly 1000 years finally has Christianity as a significant element. The origins of science are part of the pre-Christian phase of western civilization. That early proto-science in western civ is put in to a 1000+ year sleep with the conquest of the Roman empire by Christianity and then Germanic tribes after reintroduction of the ancient, pre-Christian writings of ancient Greece and Rome.

Thus science is tied to the non-Christian history of western culture, including the reintroduction during the Christian period of western civ.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Of the Scientific Method...no, but Darwinism...probably.

"Darwinism" is not really a thing. If you are talking about the concept of evolution that did not begin with Darwin either. What Darwin did was to explain the main driving forces of evolution. And though he began as a Christian by the end of his life as an agnostic atheist. It is a bad idea to claim that ideas came from specific religions. That is almost always not the case.

 

[Tone]

after nearly 1000 years finally has Christianity as a significant element

So, would you say that the rise of Christianity and the resurrection of ancient writings spawned evolutionary theory?

 

[Hans Blaster]

The Bible arose from several cultures as well.

Yeah. It is.

The Babylonian cosmology of Genesis 1 & 2;
The Sumerian flood epoch also in GEnesis;
The Akkadian legend of the birth of Sargon (baby in the reeds) in Exodus;
the Caananite pantheon;
The Good/Evil dualism of Persia's Zoroastrianism
The "Logos" of Philo of Alexandria;
The popularity of mystery cults in the early roman period of the western Med.
Not to mention the cribbing of Josephus in Luke/Acts.

Funny thing was until I found *this site* 5+ years ago, the only one I knew of was the epic of Gilgamesh and largely didn't care about religion or the arguments for/against god. Thanks CF!

 

[Hans Blaster]

So, would you say that the rise of Christianity and the resurrection of ancient writings spawned evolutionary theory?

The rise of Christianity was ~1500 years before evolutionary theory, so it seems a rather long fuse, if connected it all. As for the classical texts, I don't really know the intervening intellectual history. I have some better understanding of their impact on physics/astronomy or the philosophical underpinnings.

 

[Tone]

It was pretty much a Middle East thing.

Here is an article that explains how it began in Greece and finally arrived in today's form under the work of John Stuart Mill (who was an agnostic by the way, and most agnostics are also atheists):

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/scientific-method/#HisRevAriMil

Yet I do not claim that the scientific method comes from atheism.

Thanks,I read through some of it.

Here's some that may interest you:

A (Very) Brief History of Christians in Science - Articles

34 Great Scientists Who Were Committed Christians

Science owes much to both Christianity and the Middle Ages : Soapbox Science

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/religion-science/

Enjoy!

 

[Hans Blaster]

Yes, of course, Christians can be scientists and vice versa. I was a scientist-in-training and a Christian. I know plenty of scientists that are Christians. It only shows that science and Christianity do not have to be in opposition, but it doesn't mean that one implies the other or depends on the other.

Thanks,I read through some of it.

Here's some that may interest you:

A (Very) Brief History of Christians in Science - Articles

34 Great Scientists Who Were Committed Christians

Science owes much to both Christianity and the Middle Ages : Soapbox Science

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/religion-science/

Enjoy!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thanks,I read through some of it.

Here's some that may interest you:

A (Very) Brief History of Christians in Science - Articles

34 Great Scientists Who Were Committed Christians

Science owes much to both Christianity and the Middle Ages : Soapbox Science

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/religion-science/

Enjoy!

No one has denied that some great scientists were also Christians. Perhaps the greatest scientist of all times, Sir Isaac Newton was a devoted Christian. It is still poor reasoning to attribute their religion to their discoveries.

 

[Tone]

It is still poor reasoning to attribute their religion to their discoveries

It is a poor choice to discard the Book of their religion.

*Of course their religion contributes to their discoveries...

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is a poor choice to discard the Book of their religion.

*Of course their religion contributes to their discoveries...

No one is discarding it. We are just not giving it undeserved credit.

 

[Hans Blaster]

It is a poor choice to discard the Book of their religion.

If a religious text can be used to provide evidence for a scientific idea, then fine, but given what I know of the bible, it doesn't really even contain the kind of information that could be considered evidence. It makes a lot of claims and says "this happened" and "that happened", but those are mostly just claims and claims aren't evidence, they're claims.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

2 Timothy 4:3
"3For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. 4So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."


Gotcha...

 

[Gene2memE]

So, would you say that the rise of Christianity and the resurrection of ancient writings spawned evolutionary theory?

No.

I'd say that Darwin (and Wallace) were prompted to form their ideas about evolution due to their observations of nature, based on a host of discoveries across geology and biology made in the previous ~75 years. Darwin formed his ideas from his time as a naturalist and geologist working on the Beagle and communicating with geologists like Lyell and anatomists like Grant and Owen. Wallace formed his ideas from his time in the Amazon and in Borneo, particularly his study of the biogeography of fossils.

The sciences were less stratified at the time, so there was lots of cross-fertilisation of ideas across naturalism, geology, biology and related fields.

 

[Strathos]

I don't understand the argument here.

It sounds like you're saying that Christianity gave rise to certain scientific theories... and that means those theories are wrong?

 

[Tone]

I don't understand the argument here.

It sounds like you're saying that Christianity gave rise to certain scientific theories... and that means those theories are wrong?

observations of nature,

I'm saying that the Biblical worldview is conducive to observing the outside world around us, as it establishes the fact of classifications of the natural world. I mean, it begins with an explanation of the difference between man and animals and where they stand in relation to the Creator.

And Darwin came up with those theories in conscious opposition to his Christian upbringing. So, in this sense, we can say that it stemmed from a twisting of the Biblical worldview of nature.