The Bible is the Word of God, and is God Himself

[newton3005]

The Bible is the Work of God, and in that context it is the WORD of God. The English Standard Version of 2 Timothy 3:16 leaves no doubt when it says, “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness...” Similarly, other versions says that all Scripture is God-breathed.

Other versions, such as the New Living Translation, starts out by saying “All Scripture is INSPIRED BY God.” Is there really any difference as to whether all Scripture is breathed out by God or inspired by God when the purpose of the Scriptures in God’s name is the same?

Some may argue it’s not the same thing. They may say that the phrase “inspired by God” suggests that the Bible is the work of man rather than of God. But in terms of true faith, the only works that count are those of God. Those works are either from God himself or they are manifested in others as God’s works. Ephesians 2:8-10 says, “For by grace you have been saved through faith. AND THIS IS NOT YOUR OWN DOING; IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD, NOT A RESULT OF WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE MAY BOAST. For we are his workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS FOR GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

One good work of God is manifested in those of the Faith who write the Word of God in the Bible. Those of the faith are not writing their own words, they’re writing the Words of God. Every Word of God, from the Ten Commandments to the numerous battles in the Old Testament, to the birth of Jesus, his teachings and his Ascension are the Words of God. So, to risk an analogy, as every word of Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address is Lincoln himself (but reflecting God’s good works), every Word of God in the Bible is God Himself.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

According to John Chapter 1, Jesus is the Word, and is God.

The bible is not part of the trinity.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The Bible is the Work of God, and in that context it is the WORD of God. The English Standard Version of 2 Timothy 3:16 leaves no doubt when it says, “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness...” Similarly, other versions says that all Scripture is God-breathed.

Other versions, such as the New Living Translation, starts out by saying “All Scripture is INSPIRED BY God.” Is there really any difference as to whether all Scripture is breathed out by God or inspired by God when the purpose of the Scriptures in God’s name is the same?

Some may argue it’s not the same thing. They may say that the phrase “inspired by God” suggests that the Bible is the work of man rather than of God. But in terms of true faith, the only works that count are those of God. Those works are either from God himself or they are manifested in others as God’s works. Ephesians 2:8-10 says, “For by grace you have been saved through faith. AND THIS IS NOT YOUR OWN DOING; IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD, NOT A RESULT OF WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE MAY BOAST. For we are his workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS FOR GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

One good work of God is manifested in those of the Faith who write the Word of God in the Bible. Those of the faith are not writing their own words, they’re writing the Words of God. Every Word of God, from the Ten Commandments to the numerous battles in the Old Testament, to the birth of Jesus, his teachings and his Ascension are the Words of God. So, to risk an analogy, as every word of Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address is Lincoln himself (but reflecting God’s good works), every Word of God in the Bible is God Himself.

As already noted, in John 1 the Word which is being spoken about is Jesus, not the Bible. The Bible is not God. But Jesus says that the Scriptures bear witness to Him, and thus the Church has down through the centuries confess that Christ Himself, the Eternal and Uncreated Word of God, is most certainly in and through the Bible. St. Augustine spoke of Scripture as containing one unifying Word, and that Word is Jesus Christ Himself. It is Christ who, ultimately, makes the Scriptures holy.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Jonaitis]

The Bible is the Work of God, and in that context it is the WORD of God. The English Standard Version of 2 Timothy 3:16 leaves no doubt when it says, “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness...” Similarly, other versions says that all Scripture is God-breathed.

Other versions, such as the New Living Translation, starts out by saying “All Scripture is INSPIRED BY God.” Is there really any difference as to whether all Scripture is breathed out by God or inspired by God when the purpose of the Scriptures in God’s name is the same?

Some may argue it’s not the same thing. They may say that the phrase “inspired by God” suggests that the Bible is the work of man rather than of God. But in terms of true faith, the only works that count are those of God. Those works are either from God himself or they are manifested in others as God’s works. Ephesians 2:8-10 says, “For by grace you have been saved through faith. AND THIS IS NOT YOUR OWN DOING; IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD, NOT A RESULT OF WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE MAY BOAST. For we are his workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS FOR GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

One good work of God is manifested in those of the Faith who write the Word of God in the Bible. Those of the faith are not writing their own words, they’re writing the Words of God. Every Word of God, from the Ten Commandments to the numerous battles in the Old Testament, to the birth of Jesus, his teachings and his Ascension are the Words of God. So, to risk an analogy, as every word of Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address is Lincoln himself (but reflecting God’s good works), every Word of God in the Bible is God Himself.

In other words, Scripture is the revelation of God. I think I see what you mean.

However, by your logic, then, the work of God in the Christian is God's Word too. Nay, the whole Christian life, being the work and will of God exerted, is too the Word of God. If Lincoln's Gettysburg Address is Lincoln himself, then creation, too, is the Creator himself, revealing Himself through providence. How far will you reason this out?

 

[Strong in Him]

So, to risk an analogy, as every word of Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address is Lincoln himself (but reflecting God’s good works), every Word of God in the Bible is God Himself.

Scripture is the work of God, inspired by God. It is not God.
THE Word is Jesus, who IS God.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

— 2 Timothy 3:16-17

so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

-Isaiah 55:11

Here's the kicker verses that have already been mentioned:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

-John 1:1

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

-John 1:14

So we see 1. Scripture is God breathed 2. Scripture will accomplish what He has been sent to accomplish 3. The Word is considered God and 4. Jesus who was made flesh by the word in that He was the Word all 4 of these points show that Jesus who is the word does what He is sent to do and has been since the beginning and He is God.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

@newton3005 ,

2 Timothy 3:14-17 teaches something about written revelation. That is why the passage speaks of "scripture" which is a Latin derived word meaning "writing". Verses 16 and 17 could be translated as

Every holy Writing which comes from God is of profit for teaching, for training, for guiding, for education in righteousness: So that the man of God may be complete, trained and made ready for every good work.​

2 Timothy 3:16-17 BBE

The passage does not say anything about the Word of God, that phrase is used in John 1:1 as a name for the Lord, Jesus Christ. That phrase is not about a book.

 

[Clare73]

According to John Chapter 1, Jesus is the Word, and is God.

The bible is not part of the trinity.

"Word" in Jn 1:1 does not refer to speech, but to the Greek philosophical concept of the First Cause, the Great Intelligence and Reason behind the Universe; i.e., God.

The Bible is not the Word in the sense of Jn 1:1.

 

[The Liturgist]

but to the Greek philosophical concept of the First Cause, the Great Intelligence and Reason behind the Universe; i.e., God.

Almost. Actually, it refers to the concept of the Memra, which is a Hebraic word that can be translated as Logos which is conceptually similar in meaning.

The Bible as you and others have noted is not God, but is rather a verbal icon of Christ, who is the incarnate Word of God.

 

[Clare73]

Almost. Actually, it refers to the concept of the Memra, which is a Hebraic word that can be translated as Logos which is conceptually similar in meaning.

But John seemed to have Greek readers mainly in mind, which would favor taking it from Greek philosophy.
Would not the Jews have gotten that concept of logos from the Greeks?

The Bible as you and others have noted is not God, but is rather a verbal icon of Christ, who is the incarnate Word of God.

But in Scripture, it is not only the incarnate Word?

 

[prodromos]

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

— 2 Timothy 3:16-17

so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

-Isaiah 55:11

Here's the kicker verses that have already been mentioned:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

-John 1:1

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

-John 1:14

So we see 1. Scripture is God breathed 2. Scripture will accomplish what He has been sent to accomplish 3. The Word is considered God and 4. Jesus who was made flesh by the word in that He was the Word all 4 of these points show that Jesus who is the word does what He is sent to do and has been since the beginning and He is God.

You've got two different word being translated as "word" in English Bibles. One word is "logos" and the other is "rema". They are not the same.

 

[Roymond]

The Bible is the Work of God, and in that context it is the WORD of God. The English Standard Version of 2 Timothy 3:16 leaves no doubt when it says, “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness...” Similarly, other versions says that all Scripture is God-breathed.

Other versions, such as the New Living Translation, starts out by saying “All Scripture is INSPIRED BY God.” Is there really any difference as to whether all Scripture is breathed out by God or inspired by God when the purpose of the Scriptures in God’s name is the same?

For starters, you're treating "God-breathed" and "inspired" as two different things, when they're not: both are just translations into English of the same Greek word, θεόπνευστος, "theopneustos", which is made up of the words θεός, "theos", and πνεύστος, "pneustos), translated as "God" and "breathed, respectively. So you're off to a confused start.

Some may argue it’s not the same thing. They may say that the phrase “inspired by God” suggests that the Bible is the work of man rather than of God. But in terms of true faith, the only works that count are those of God. Those works are either from God himself or they are manifested in others as God’s works. Ephesians 2:8-10 says, “For by grace you have been saved through faith. AND THIS IS NOT YOUR OWN DOING; IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD, NOT A RESULT OF WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE MAY BOAST. For we are his workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS FOR GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

Many in the early church would respond to this by saying you have forgotten the Incarnation, where God dwelt in human flesh, God the Word become Man, because the scriptures are an image of the Word of God Himself, and He is both God and man -- and therefore the scriptures must have both God and man. To deny the human element is to make of God a slaver who uses men like tools rather than working with them as a Friend. "Come now, let us reason together", the Lord God said of old; "take up My yoke", He said when He walked among us. Reasoning together requires the human mind be left free, else there would be no "together"; taking up His yoke requires working with Him, not making Him carry the whole burden--

θεόπνευστος (theopneustos) is not a complete statement because the πνεῦμα is not breathed into emptiness, it must be breathed into and/or through something else: the πνεῦμα is the spirit yet also the wind, and when wind blows through trees it is changed; πνεῦμα is also breath, and breath does not go out into emptiness -- when breathed on a flame, the wood burns brighter; when blown through a trumpet or flute, breath becomes musical.

So what is breathed is changed or shaped by what it is breathed into, even as it changes that which it is breathed into. When God breathed into the nostrils of Adam, both the clay of the Earth and the breath from God were changed, "and Adam became a living soul". So we must ask, "What is God's breath/wind/spirit being breathed into?" And the answer is simple: it is breathed into men! Thus the breath of God blows through men, and as wind is changed by what it blows through, so also is God's breath changed by the men it blew through.

Thus scripture is both of God and of men.

One good work of God is manifested in those of the Faith who write the Word of God in the Bible. Those of the faith are not writing their own words, they’re writing
the Words of God. Every Word of God, from the Ten Commandments to the numerous battles in the Old Testament, to the birth of Jesus, his teachings and his Ascension are the Words of God.

To the contrary, those moved by God most certainly used their own words -- they had no other words to use! They were not puppets God used to hold a quill; they were not machines taking dictation, they were men who took what was breathed into them and used the words they knew to set down the message.

But you're confusing two things again: the Word of God is not equal to the words of God. The word λόγος, "logos", that is used of Christ applies also to the scriptures, and it does not mean one spoken vocable, it means a concept, a message, what today we might call a "meme" (if that term hadn't been cheapened by using it to refer to images rather than concepts). The Word of God in the scriptures is not the individual words as though it were some sort of recipe or vocabulary lesson, it is the message behind those words -- indeed it if were the words themselves, then those who claim that Paul's theology differs from John's theology which differs in turn from Peter's theology which again differs from the theology of James or Matthew or Luke or whoever wrote Hebrews, for they all use different vocabularies and phrases and images and style. But since the Word is not the individual words but is the message, we can look beyond the specific words and see the message, and the message is the same.

So, to risk an analogy, as every word of Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address is Lincoln himself (but reflecting God’s good works), every Word of God in the Bible is God Himself.

This is Gnosticism, of the variety which says that when God acts within the world he "emanates" His Own Self into Creation. The only other choice is θεολλάζοντας, "theoLOdzantas", the doctrine that God is mutable, changeable, and thus here holds that God is not merely Trinity but Quaternity†. As both positions are heresy because they set forth a different God from Who we find in the scriptures, it makes little difference which error is the case here; either way it is heresy. It's bad Christology, and makes a very bad mess of the Trinity.


† or more; if every single word is God, then there are more than twelve thousand Gods, that being very roughly the number of different words in the Septuagint, which is the text used by the early church for the most part.

 

[Roymond]

In other words, Scripture is the revelation of God. I think I see what you mean.

However, by your logic, then, the work of God in the Christian is God's Word too. Nay, the whole Christian life, being the work and will of God exerted, is too the Word of God. If Lincoln's Gettysburg Address is Lincoln himself, then creation, too, is the Creator himself, revealing Himself through providence. How far will you reason this out?

Ouch -- but a good observation; it certainly can be read as panentheism.

 

[Roymond]

. . . so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

-Isaiah 55:11

Trivia: this is what the early church meant when they called scripture "inerrant", that it goes as it is sent and like an arrow from a master archer strikes where it is sent.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Trivia: this is what the early church meant when they called scripture "inerrant", that it goes as it is sent and like an arrow from a master archer strikes where it is sent.

it's a great verse

 

[Roymond]

Almost. Actually, it refers to the concept of the Memra, which is a Hebraic word that can be translated as Logos which is conceptually similar in meaning.

The Bible as you and others have noted is not God, but is rather a verbal icon of Christ, who is the incarnate Word of God.

"Verbal icon of Christ."

That phrase alone earns a "like"!

 

[Roymond]

But John seemed to have Greek readers mainly in mind, which would favor taking it from Greek philosophy.

Actually,no -- a rabbinic school of thought starting in the century before Christ had adopted the word λόγος, "logos", for the organizing concept behind/beneath the universe, linking it to σοφία, "so-FEE-uh", meaning "wisdom". This theme was picked up by the church Fathers who linked the wisdom of God to the Word of God and thus found Christ in every place where the Old Testament speaks of wisdom.
Whether that rabbinic school of thought borrowed the term λόγος from Greek philosophy or not is a matter of dispute; I've argued it either way on occasion. But the important point here is that John need not have had any familiarity with the Greek philosophical term to use it.

On the other hand, given John's long residence in Ephesus it's hard to imagine that he wasn't aware of the Greek philosophical use of the term. At the moment I'm inclined to say he took the term from the above-mentioned rabbinic use while being aware that it would have a similar impact on Greek (i.e. Gentile) thought.

But in Scripture, it is not only the incarnate Word?

If the choice is between "written word" and "Incarnate Word", the answer is yes. But that's an artificial dichotomy since λόγος is used in many other ways. Between the New Testament and the Septuagint it gets used to mean: saying, message, speech (in both senses as a noun), conversation, declaration, decree, lesson/instruction, narrative/story, report, rumor, topic of discussion, and reason (in both senses as a noun) -- quite a collection of uses!

 

[Clare73]

Actually,no -- a rabbinic school of thought starting in the century before Christ had adopted the word λόγος, "logos", for the organizing concept behind/beneath the universe, linking it to σοφία, "so-FEE-uh", meaning "wisdom".

Then they got it from the Greeks.

This theme was picked up by the church Fathers who linked the wisdom of God to the Word of God and thus found Christ in every place where the Old Testament speaks of wisdom.
Whether that rabbinic school of thought borrowed the term λόγος from Greek philosophy or not is a matter of dispute; I've argued it either way on occasion. But the important point here is that John need not have had any familiarity with the Greek philosophical term to use it.

On the other hand, given John's long residence in Ephesus it's hard to imagine that he wasn't aware of the Greek philosophical use of the term. At the moment I'm inclined to say he took the term from the above-mentioned rabbinic use while being aware that it would have a similar impact on Greek (i.e. Gentile) thought.

If the choice is between "written word" and "Incarnate Word", the answer is yes.

The choice here is between Incarnate Word and Incarnate Word of God.
The gospel of John does not use "Incarnate Word of God."

But that's an artificial dichotomy since λόγος is used in many other ways. Between the New Testament and the Septuagint it gets used to mean: saying, message, speech (in both senses as a noun), conversation, declaration, decree, lesson/instruction, narrative/story, report, rumor, topic of discussion, and reason (in both senses as a noun) -- quite a collection of uses!

 

[Roymond]

You've got two different word being translated as "word" in English Bibles. One word is "logos" and the other is "rema". They are not the same.

Λόγος is the overarching term covering a statement all the way to philosophical argument, with "orderly concept" at its core; ῥῆμα is a subset of λόγος, its focus being always smaller, i.e. specific words, short statement, brief messages, quick instructions, and the connection to the idea of logic is not essential. As I recall, it's common in the Synoptic Gospels and Paul but not so much elsewhere.
At any rate, the phrase "the word of God" in its general use will always be λόγος because of the overarching message of Law and Gospel, while in specific use can be either one depending on context.