The Bible does not say the Earth Is 7,000 Years Old

RandyPNW

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Its philosophy. Ita gadget philosophy which goes back to the 19th century and into the 20th century. No different that potion philosophy. Drink this potion and you'll have the stength of a raging bull. Same type of philosophy evolutionists use.
That's completely false. Of course there are "old wives tales" and "healing elixir shows." That isn't "Science!"

Again, do a little research on radiometric dating systems, and you'll change your mind. They aren't in the least "gadget philosophies!"
 
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Ragdoll

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I think inventors (called Engineers these days) invent things.

Scientific Method
From Wikipedia (Basically what I said)
The scientific method involves careful observation coupled with rigorous skepticism, because cognitive assumptions can distort the interpretation of the observation. Scientific inquiry includes creating a hypothesis through inductive reasoning, testing it through experiments and statistical analysis, and adjusting or discarding the hypothesis based on the results.

From Britannica (Basically what I said)
More specifically, it is the technique used in the construction and testing of a scientific hypothesis.

From Standford University (Basically what I said)
Among the activities often identified as characteristic of science are systematic observation and experimentation, inductive and deductive reasoning, and the formation and testing of hypotheses and theories

From Merriam Webster Dictionary (Basically what I said)
principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses

From Berkeley (Agrees that what I said is commonly constituted as scientific method, agrees that the core logic is correct, but considers it an oversimplification, which is valid.)
Though many useful points are embodied in this method, it can easily be misinterpreted as linear and “cookbook”: pull a problem off the shelf, throw in an observation, mix in a few questions, sprinkle on a hypothesis, put the whole mixture into a 350° experiment — and voila, 50 minutes later you’ll be pulling a conclusion out of the oven!
The linear, stepwise representation of the process of science is oversimplified, but it does get at least one thing right. It captures the core logic of science: testing ideas with evidence.

Live Science (Basically what I said)
scientists use the scientific method to collect measurable, empirical evidence in an experiment related to a hypothesis (often in the form of an if/then statement) that is designed to support or contradict a scientific theory.

These 6 entry are the only ones that I looked at, and they all agreed with what I said (basically). Therefore it would seem that my understanding of scientific method is more inline with the general understanding than yours, unless you can prove otherwise.

If I am confusing scientific method with philosophy, then apparently (as you potentially pointed out) so does a significant portion of the scientific world. If that is the case, it does then make one wonder who's definition is incorrect (can we agree that a definition of something is the way in which that something is normally used - if my definition of scientific method is the way that it is normally used, then is that not the definition. As such if you use the term differently, then you should define how you are using (and you probably should acknowledge that you are using it out of it's normal context).
The problem with trusting all these far-left sites is that none of it is true. First of all, scientists invent things. They are inventors....not philosophers. The reason why you are so used to hypothesis is because that's all that evolutionists do. Hypothesis means not true. Just like philosophy means not true. Real science proves everything from step 1 to step 4,026. Nothing is assumed and the results cannot be argued with. You may not realize it but you are defending philsophy. An hypothesis is something a scientist keeps to himself, not telling anyone until he can finish his research. An hypothesis is just a fancy word for opinion and all opinions are false. Modern science has always discriminated against opinions. The age of philosophy ended at the moment Galileo put his telescope to his eye. We no longer need philosophy anymore andf therefore no longer need to listen and obey evolutionists.
Live Science is a joke site. Talk about living in Deep Space Fantasia. They are the kings of cosmic mysticism. In order for a scientists to make a statement of knowledge about something way out there 40-billion light years ago, he first needs to invent a space ship that can go that far. Once he has his space ship he must travel to the place where he wants to investigate and take it from there. That is how science works. Science does not value an hypothesis nor respect the opinions of other people. Science flat out discriminates against opinions and does not allow an opinion to leave the science room.
Evolutionists release their opinions to the media every election cycle. They have not proved anything. My advice is study real scientific method and see how that discipline was used to invent many things. Yes, science is for inventing things...useful things. They do not do their work with their words. They do not use eloquent speech to prove their findings. Philosophy is about eloquent speech....grammar school. There you learn how to convince people that your opinions are correct using nothing more then eloquent speech. This is all the sites you listed did. They had you with words. They invented nothing with their many words. Therefore since they do not invent anything we don't have to listen to them since creationists are the ones who founded and established science, inventing everything useful we have in the modern world. The philosophy was made obsolete by Galileo.
 
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Ragdoll

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That's completely false. Of course there are "old wives tales" and "healing elixir shows." That isn't "Science!"

Again, do a little research on radiometric dating systems, and you'll change your mind. They aren't in the least "gadget philosophies!"
Oh believe me, I've done my research and finished it. There is no scientific method applied to any of this dating data. How can they know that their dates are correct? The answer they give you is merely done with words--eloquent speech. That's the philospher's trick. Intice people through eloquent speech and they will follow. But modern science was not about eloquent speech. The Christians who founded and established modern science invented things....useful things, even invented air travel and put a man on the moon. Evolutionists invent nothing and therefore it logically follows that we do not have to listen to them.
 
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Ragdoll

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If I am confusing scientific method with philosophy, then apparently (as you potentially pointed out) so does a significant portion of the scientific world. If that is the case, it does then make one wonder who's definition is incorrect (can we agree that a definition of something is the way in which that something is normally used - if my definition of scientific method is the way that it is normally used, then is that not the definition. As such if you use the term differently, then you should define how you are using (and you probably should acknowledge that you are using it out of it's normal context).
Oh, and most of the scientific community today are not trained in scientific method. That should be obvious in all the illogical positions they are trying to force politically on the people. Its all philosophy and those who understand the difference between philosophy and science will hold the same views on this as I do -- even if they are a minority. Corruption has a way of turning a good thing into something evil. History 101.
Modern science was hijacked by atheists and they reverted it back to Aristotelian philosophy. Words....mere words. Fancifully spoken but still words devoid of scientific method.
 
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Bones49

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The problem with trusting all these far-left sites is that none of it is true. First of all, scientists invent things. They are inventors....not philosophers. The reason why you are so used to hypothesis is because that's all that evolutionists do. Hypothesis means not true. Just like philosophy means not true. Real science proves everything from step 1 to step 4,026. Nothing is assumed and the results cannot be argued with. You may not realize it but you are defending philsophy. An hypothesis is something a scientist keeps to himself, not telling anyone until he can finish his research. An hypothesis is just a fancy word for opinion and all opinions are false. Modern science has always discriminated against opinions. The age of philosophy ended at the moment Galileo put his telescope to his eye. We no longer need philosophy anymore andf therefore no longer need to listen and obey evolutionists.
Live Science is a joke site. Talk about living in Deep Space Fantasia. They are the kings of cosmic mysticism. In order for a scientists to make a statement of knowledge about something way out there 40-billion light years ago, he first needs to invent a space ship that can go that far. Once he has his space ship he must travel to the place where he wants to investigate and take it from there. That is how science works. Science does not value an hypothesis nor respect the opinions of other people. Science flat out discriminates against opinions and does not allow an opinion to leave the science room.
Evolutionists release their opinions to the media every election cycle. They have not proved anything. My advice is study real scientific method and see how that discipline was used to invent many things. Yes, science is for inventing things...useful things. They do not do their work with their words. They do not use eloquent speech to prove their findings. Philosophy is about eloquent speech....grammar school. There you learn how to convince people that your opinions are correct using nothing more then eloquent speech. This is all the sites you listed did. They had you with words. They invented nothing with their many words. Therefore since they do not invent anything we don't have to listen to them since creationists are the ones who founded and established science, inventing everything useful we have in the modern world. The philosophy was made obsolete by Galileo.
OK. First, what do you mean by scientific method?
Can you prove that all these sites are far left?
As I said before, scientists do not invent things, scientists do science, and inventors (engineers) take that science and invent things.
Hypothesis does not mean 'not true', hypothesys means 'an idea or explanation of something that is based on a few known facts but that has not yet been proved to be true or correct' (Oxford Dictionary).
Yes, real science does prove everything from step 1.
Step 1 is to present a hypothesis - Galileo's hypothesis was that the world revolved around the sun.
Step 2 is to create an experiment to prove whether the hypothesis is true or false.
Step 3 is to undertake said experiment.
Step 4 is to analyze the results of the experiment.
Step 5 is to write a conclusion, stating whether the experiment proved that the hypothesis was true or false.
Step 6 ...
Hence Scientific Method, taking an idea and proving it to be true or false.

'Science flat out discriminates against opinions ...' No, science takes opinions and proves them to be true or false. It objectifies opinions and tells you whether that opinion is worth listening to or not.

Evolution. I would say that as proposed by Darwin, was real science - as he also proposed a set of conditions whereby if they were met, would prove his theory (his hypothesis) to be false. The problem is that those conditions were met, his theory was proved false, but nobody took any notice, and so the theory of evolution, is still considered to be a valid theory.

Sorry if you disapprove of my selection of web references (at least I bothered to refer to anything). I was actually trying to find somewhat reputable sources - wikipedia can be a bit hit and miss, I would have thought a dictionary definition would be universally accepted at correct - it is a dictionary, it's purpose is to define what words mean. If you disagree with that, then well ... I kinda guessed that Standford and Berkeley were relatively reputable institutions - I don't know I'm not an American. And live science, well whatever...

Yes you are right, I am defending philosophy, because all science starts with philosophy, with ideas and takes them and proves them to be true or false.
If science is what invents things, then where do these inventions come from, if it is not from the imagination of the scientist (inventor). The scientist has an idea, a thought. He develops that thought into theory or hypothesis and then he develops an experiment to prove whether that idea is correct, does the experiment, proves it correct and writes his conclusions so others can reproduce the same experiment and get the same results. Then he patents the idea that he had and builds whatever useful gadget he now can because using scientific method he has proved that the gadget will work. If as you claim, this is not true, then how does it work? The basic concept of inventing something implies that you are taking it from an idea (a the realm of philosophy which you so ardently dislike) and move it into the realm of reality, of science. If there are no new ideas, then there is nothing, no inventing, no science, no development, no progress.
 
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Ragdoll

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Yes you are right, I am defending philosophy, because all science starts with philosophy, with ideas and takes them and proves them to be true or false.
This is all I have time for right now. Modern science was a direct product of Biblical theology.
 
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JulieB67

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Do you trust God or do you trust the vain imaginations of man? I chose to trust God
Do you believe God when he specifically states he did not create the earth void and empty? That means he did not create a huge mass covered in water -a ruin so to speak as it's stated in Genesis if you take it back to the Hebrew. If God states he did not create it that way I choose to believe him. He created it to be inhabited. The early church fathers were men as well. So I wouldn't take their word over God's. We have to be able to take the word back to what the early manuscripts are trying to teach as well because we know things get lost in translation. Also, 6 or 7 thousand years is not old in God's time. That's what Peter is telling us. And the word declares the heavens and earth are of "old"
 
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Diamond7

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Yes, but that education Abraham had was not a science degree.
Actually it was. Abraham is credited with the separation between Astrology and Astronomy. The division of truth and error. So really he alone is the father of Science. Just as Moses is the Father or the beginning of the law that he actually learned from his father in law.

No one has ever produced any scientific evidence to show us that the Bible is not 100% accurate and true. There is lots of science that proves how true and accurate the Bible is.
 
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Ragdoll

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OK. First, what do you mean by scientific method?
Can you prove that all these sites are far left?
As I said before, scientists do not invent things, scientists do science, and inventors (engineers) take that science and invent things.
Hypothesis does not mean 'not true', hypothesys means 'an idea or explanation of something that is based on a few known facts but that has not yet been proved to be true or correct' (Oxford Dictionary).
:rolleyes: (signs).

Modern science brought more inventions then anything. To even say that scientists don't invent things is absurd. Do I really have to post how science began and all the inventions made by scientists? Is that what I have to do? You are confusing philosophy with science. An hypothesis is nothing more then an opinion which is what philosopher's do. A scientist is supposed to keep his opinions to himself until he has absolutely proven something. Evolutionists only have hypothesis which is why you feel compelled to defend that. But scientific method is absolute proof.

Even historical figures like John Moses Browning were scientists. Sure,. he invented guns and you may criticize that if you want. But he still applied scientific method in his designs. Dr.Louis Pasteur, the guy who discredited biological evolution, invented many vaccines among so many other things he contributed to the medical world still valid today. If a scientist does not invent anything then that person is no scientist at all. Such a person is a philosopher and philosophy means not true.
 
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RandyPNW

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Actually it was. Abraham is credited with the separation between Astrology and Astronomy. The division of truth and error. So really he alone is the father of Science. Just as Moses is the Father or the beginning of the law that he actually learned from his father in law.
Quite a stretch....
No one has ever produced any scientific evidence to show us that the Bible is not 100% accurate and true. There is lots of science that proves how true and accurate the Bible is.
Who is questioning that?
 
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Bones49

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:rolleyes: (signs).

Modern science brought more inventions then anything. To even say that scientists don't invent things is absurd. Do I really have to post how science began and all the inventions made by scientists? Is that what I have to do? You are confusing philosophy with science. An hypothesis is nothing more then an opinion which is what philosopher's do. A scientist is supposed to keep his opinions to himself until he has absolutely proven something. Evolutionists only have hypothesis which is why you feel compelled to defend that. But scientific method is absolute proof.

Even historical figures like John Moses Browning were scientists. Sure,. he invented guns and you may criticize that if you want. But he still applied scientific method in his designs. Dr.Louis Pasteur, the guy who discredited biological evolution, invented many vaccines among so many other things he contributed to the medical world still valid today. If a scientist does not invent anything then that person is no scientist at all. Such a person is a philosopher and philosophy means not true.
Please actually read my post before replying, because I have clearly delineated my reply to your considerations, yet you come back to the same consideration. Actually, I think it is possible we believe similar thing regarding philosophy and science, but you don't seem to be able to understand what I am saying, even though I am trying to be very clear. I'm sorry if the way write is difficult to understand and confusing.

OK, I will concede your point that some scientists do invent things, but still, I would argue that when they do they are not acting as scientists. Science is about understanding and describing how the world works - at least in its purest form. I have already stated that science leads to invention, but I'm choosing to separate out the process of understanding the system, and then designing gadgets which use the system. I'm sorry if the way I have delineated the difference between science and engineering was not clear.
 
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SuperCow

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I agree with most of the initial statement, except for a couple of nit-picky things:

Biblical inspirations show the Apostles and prophets knew of the mystery of these ages. There is the 1st age that GOD created when HE created all the living Souls (Ruach) at once for HIS pleasure. The earth was created and filled with life and HE created the Ruach in HIS own image-SPIRIT form to rule over her. Lasting millions if not billions of years. If true scientist are correct and no reason not to believe their dating of the earth being 4 billion years old. We have proof of the 1st age when we see dinosaur’s skeletons all over the world that are billions of years old.

Dinosaurs existed from about 250 million to 65 million years ago. Smaller animals existed before then, but everything was microscopic before about 600 million years ago. It took a couple of billion years for microorganisms to make the earth habitable for anything bigger. I don't think this is significant to your point though.

A majority of Christians have denied and many still believe because they never have been taught that the Bible does not say the earth is 6k years old, but billions. However, our dated time started with the 8th day creation of- Heb. eth-haadam-the man Adam: The Bible declares this age of flesh man began around 13k years ago. Science and the Bible agree with the account; the ice age ended with the last woolly mammoth dated to the timeline.

...

This age was created in 6 days then GOD rested the 7th from HIS work and then on 8th day formed (Heb. Eth-haadam=The man Adam). By Peter’s reckoning we can say from where our dated time starts with Adam 8th day; 7k years of creation until now some 6k years we come to 13k years. This is the time scientist and archeologists say that period ended (glacier age). Bible is accurate in stating this too. Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Period doesn’t say when but we know its millions to 4 billion years old.

Where does the eighth day come from? Other than circumcision, I see no other references to any eighth day.

Genesis 1:27, 31 clearly states that Adam and Eve were both created on the 6th day. (Though they didn't sin at least until after the seventh day began.)

27 - "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them."
31 - "God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day."

If the creative days were thousands, millions or billions of years, (which I agree with by the way) then wouldn't it make sense that the seventh day was also longer than 24 hours? The bible never declares the evening and morning of the seventh day ending. That would impact the start of any eight day and the start of Adamic time. Based on the above, all we can conclude is that the sixth day ended long before Adam was 130 years old. (And likely officially ended upon the creation of Eve)
 
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SuperCow

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None of those objects cause seasons. Seasons happen because the earth is tilted at 23.5 degrees on its axis. Not all places on earth experience seasons as in summer winter spring and fall some just wet or dry season.
Seasons are an artificial delineation of time created by man. (Perhaps originally by God, but it doesn't matter.) Everywhere on earth has weather related cycles that repeat (on average) annually, Whether they refer to them as a rainy season, dry season, typhoon season is irrelevant. We only have spring/summer/fall/winter, because it was influential countries based in temperate zones that propagated that.

The sun still causes seasons. They wouldn't exist without it and would be much different in a binary or trinary star system, regardless of the earth's tilt. The moon can affect climate, but since its revolutionary period is much shorter, I don't think I'd say it affects the seasons.
 
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SuperCow

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We did not have a year, night day until beginnings of this age when GOD made the universe and its stars and knows the billions by name placed them in their orbits. There was no wobble, no magnetic poles that causes storms; earth was perfect with the oceans above where GOD head was the light and warmth at a perfect 70ish temperature at all times.

You're speculating now, and you're confusing cause and effect with your own version of what you think is perfection. Many species on this planet would not actually thrive in perfect 70ish temperature, as many prefer it warmer or cooler, and many of those that do like it that way just migrate every year to the temperature they like. All we can say is that the garden of Eden probably conformed to this.

Time meant nothing where we needed day, night. Our Ruach (spiritual bodies) we were created in could only be destroyed by a consuming fire of GOD, think of it nothing in the universe can destroy the spiritual body but the creator (ELOHIM); the potter who made us to last forever. This is how we could survive millions of years with dinosaurs in a perfect climate. Same at north, south, east and west. No ocean to stop travel from point to point and why all creation could live on a seemingly small earth this age. And why we find in Ashfall Nebraska 7 different kinds of Camel that only are found in Africa in this age.

Tectonic plate movement can also explain most of the record. The atmosphere that the dinosaurs lived in had 4-6x the levels of CO2, higher humidity, higher methane, and a lot more geothermal activity. That would have moderated the climate somewhat, but I still don't think the north pole and the equator had similar climates at this time.

The magnetic poles are caused by the gravitational force of the universe; sun, moon, stars causing the earth to spin. Without 1 or all as in the first age where we had no need, everything was constant, no seasons no night, no days, Eternal paradise.

I'm not sure about the wobble, but the magnetic poles have to be there, because they protect the earth from the solar wind and certain types of radiation from space that would kill a lot of the life on the planet. If anything, it is more likely it was stronger in the past. I would speculate that whatever caused the flood weakened this magnetic field, and quite possible resulted in the decline in lifespans over the next thousand years. (Which is most dramatic in Genesis 11)
 
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SuperCow

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If the Bible had a verse that said " The Earth is exactly seven thousand years old" Would that make it so?

No, whatever happened has happened. All that would mean is that God saw it necessary to clarify our historical understanding. (Assuming that the verse was not added by a 4th century monk or an earlier Jewish Pharisee or something.)
 
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If the creative days were thousands, millions or billions of years, (which I agree with by the way) then wouldn't it make sense that the seventh day was also longer than 24 hours? The bible never declares the evening and morning of the seventh day ending. That would impact the start of any eight day and the start of Adamic time. Based on the above, all we can conclude is that the sixth day ended long before Adam was 130 years old. (And likely officially ended upon the creation of Eve)
is it fair to consider that if the 'days' of creation mean anything, they at least delineate periods of equal time? so each day of cretion is the same length of time be it 24 hours, 1000 years or 1 million years.

if we can agree on this, then how does that affect our consideration of the length of each day? Adam was created on the 6th day. is it fair to consider that the fall happened after the 7th day? if so then if we believe ech was say 100 million years long, then Adam was potentially 200 million years old at the fall! is this reasonble?

another ussue if we are teying to reconcile the genesis 1 account with science is that of the chronology of genesis 1. God created day and night before the sun was created, God created the earth and even plnt life before the sun was created - which must requirw that the was some other source of heat to replce the sun. this might all be possible and reasonable frim a scientific perspective, but not according to current theories of the universe, I believe.
 
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