The bible does not say "give, give, give"

[Strong in Him]

Beloved I willest above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health EVEN AS THY SOUL PROSPERETH

Another proof text from the prosperity Gospel brigade.
John is saying that he hopes that people will be well, and as blessed physically as they are spiritually.
It is NOT a statement that God will give material blessings.

 

[dqhall]

Another proof text from the prosperity Gospel brigade.
John is saying that he hopes that people will be well, and as blessed physically as they are spiritually.
It is NOT a statement that God will give material blessings.

Recently I started to look at the financial statements of charities I gave to in the past. One had four managers on the payroll earning $100k-$150k. I looked at their revenues and expenses. I may need to change my giving plans. It is difficult to give to the poor when the people in charge of the charities are trying to get rich. After all is said and done, I am not sure I helped much. I am not supposed to sound a trumpet to brag about giving. Suppose others may have given better.

For years I was poor and yet giving to charities. It was not as if God immediately opened the windows of heaven and started dropping gold coins on me. As I gave more, I had less. If I get in financial trouble, not many will want to help me. Even some of the charities I gave to would not want to help me. They have their own people who they want to help. These days, I take care of myself first and only give some of my excess to others. Some of that gets skimmed by charity owners. I hope the poor may receive more than a few crumbs.

I was online recommending giving to the poor. God told me it was not good for me to tell others to give. Some of these people have much less money than I. God made me double my monthly contribution to a community food bank. I stopped writing that people should give. If they are behind on their rent, such advice might cause some damage. The Good Lord taught it is more blessed to give that to receive.

 

[Blade]

As much as I agree with the word yet.. as they would have asked.. who are you? Who knows you? How long have you been walking in what you preach/teach. Then they would go pray for a long time. <----this should have NEVER stopped. Like if I said Billy Graham. Agree with him or not matters not. He is known. Known how long he was at it and those that knew him.

"prosperity" even those this is true as in "A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just." Yet.. your view is not the same as how God views it.

What you teach.. is it from year of reading the word praying seeking or from listening to some preacher and then so forth so on. Which is ok. Well it could be just me here but...you seem focused on just a small part of this. It as I see it NEVER about money. Remember its not YOUR children your talking to. Saying JESUS is lord AMEN! PRAISE GOD..but that gives us no right to speak how ever we wish.. they belong to a GOD.

Sometimes just sometimes.. our MSG is meant for US.. self

 

[Strong in Him]

Recently I started to look at the financial statements of charities I gave to in the past. One had four managers on the payroll earning $100k-$150k. I looked at their revenues and expenses. I may need to change my giving plans. It is difficult to give to the poor when the people in charge of the charities are trying to get rich. After all is said and done, I am not sure I helped much. I am not supposed to sound a trumpet to brag about giving. Suppose others may have given better.

For years I was poor and yet giving to charities. It was not as if God immediately opened the windows of heaven and started dropping gold coins on me.

Don't get me wrong, God CAN give us material blessings too, and sometimes does.
What I was objecting to was the idea that if we give we WILL get back; implication being that if you need money, give to God first and he's duty bound to give to you in return.
I know no one's used these words, but that's what it all sounds like - give to God to get from God. This is what those who believe the prosperity Gospel teach - that it is not God's will that anyone should be poor/unhealthy, and we can get riches/good health just by saying the right words.

 

[Nic2018]

I think this has a good point, from the orginal poster, despite the money issue. I think the bible talks about every aspect in life. (Such as love, wisdom, mercey, gifts from god. And no we do not get these over night only through time(doing the action, prayer, and being in the bible)

Yes money is important but i think the statement needs looking from the other side of the isle.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Jesus and the disciples had a purse containing money; Judas looked after it, John 13:29.
As Jesus didn't contradict himself, "don't store up treasure", clearly doesn't mean "don't have/save money".



Depends on the endeavour, who is running it and where the money goes.



That's a big assumption; how do you know that?



Probably because if you take it as a verse on its own, out of context, it sounds as if you are teaching people to give so that they will get money back - like God is obliged to give us back more than we give him.



Why?



Again, how do you know?



That's just it; it's not a rule that if you want some money you need to give some to God first.
You've just said that God is no one's debtor. We give to God because everything we have comes from him and we want to give. Not because it's the quickest way to get some cash.



I'm not American and have watched few televangelists - they make me mad.
The ones I have seen are all about "planting a seed"; giving some money, to their ministry, either to show God that you have faith that he will increase it or so that they will pray for you.
God knows our hearts; he doesn't owe us anything. And any Christian who will not pray for another unless they are paid, needs some serious teaching and repentance.



Yes it is. And of course evangelistic missions need financing.
But we do not give to God in order that he will then give to us. Or if you do, be prepared for him to say "how are you using what I have given you?"



If this were a spiritual rule, it would always happen. Yet I have read testimonies from people who've been ruined by Word of Faith/prosperity Gospel teaching.
If someone gives £100 that they can't afford to some prosperity preacher, the likely outcome is that they will be £100 poorer, while the preacher is £100 richer - plus they get put on a mailing list encouraging them to "plant more seeds."

There is a lot of questioning God's word here. It is the Lord who said "Give and it shall be given you again...the measure you mete will be the measure that shall be meted you again"

You have no authority or right to quibble about God's word...just do it

He says to the sinner repent, believe the gospel and you shall be saved...will you then say, "oh no Lord, not so hard and fast"

It is very true that God is not obliged to save anybody...but He does, nobody has ever repented and believed the gospel and didn't get saved. God sees the heart.

And of people, nobody gives in order to prosper, that is foolish, it defies the laws of nature. It can only work if the person you have given it to has promised to repay you MORE than you give.

Even among men, as unreliable and finicky as we are, if you make such a promise you had better make it good. Has God promised to give back more than we give? yes He has.

What farmer would plant his seed and not expect a harvest? if the seed is good, if the soil is good and prepared he will always reap more than he sowed...and God has promised rain.

Like ALL of God's promises the promise of prosperity absolutely depends upon FAITH, you have to BELIEVE. If you don't do it in faith looking to God then you might worry and fret about where all your prosperity has come from.

Don't you know we have become fellow citizens of the commonwealth of Israel, co-inheritors of all the promises made to them? yet without having to obey the law and observe the ordinances.

Show me in the bible where God is not the abundant Provisioner of His people. He is the very God of plenty, of abundance.

Let's stop treating Him like He is a skinflint.

 

[RDKirk]

There is a lot of questioning God's word here. It is the Lord who said "Give and it shall be given you again...the measure you mete will be the measure that shall be meted you again"

You have no authority or right to quibble about God's word...just do it

He says to the sinner repent, believe the gospel and you shall be saved...will you then say, "oh no Lord, not so hard and fast"

It is very true that God is not obliged to save anybody...but He does, nobody has ever repented and believed the gospel and didn't get saved. God sees the heart.

And of people, nobody gives in order to prosper, that is foolish, it defies the laws of nature. It can only work if the person you have given it to has promised to repay you MORE than you give.

Even among men, as unreliable and finicky as we are, if you make such a promise you had better make it good. Has God promised to give back more than we give? yes He has.

What farmer would plant his seed and not expect a harvest? if the seed is good, if the soil is good and prepared he will always reap more than he sowed...and God has promised rain.

Like ALL of God's promises the promise of prosperity absolutely depends upon FAITH, you have to BELIEVE. If you don't do it in faith looking to God then you might worry and fret about where all your prosperity has come from.

Don't you know we have become fellow citizens of the commonwealth of Israel, co-inheritors of all the promises made to them? yet without having to obey the law and observe the ordinances.

Show me in the bible where God is not the abundant Provisioner of His people. He is the very God of plenty, of abundance.

Let's stop treating Him like He is a skinflint.

What you're not catching, though, is the mechanism by which the Lord works.

The mechanism is people. It's not that if you give to a pastor manna is going to fall into your plate from Heaven. That's not how it works. The Lord already stated how it works in scripture:

For if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what one does not have.

Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. The goal is equality, as it is written: “The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little.”

The Body of Christ has all the resources to support the Body of Christ. Christians in this world have enough wealth in our collective hands right now, today, to make sure no Christian in the world goes hungry, naked, or homeless. Christ has already made that happen.

If any Christian is hungry today, it's because some other Christian has eaten enough food for two today. If any Christian is naked today, it's because some other Christian has enough clothes for two people in his own closet.

 

[Strong in Him]

There is a lot of questioning God's word here.

I'm not questioning God's word, I'm questioning your interpretation of it - which appears to be "give to God if you want/need money because when you give, he is obliged to give back."
If this isn't what you are saying or mean, I apologise; it just sounds like it.

It is the Lord who said "Give and it shall be given you again...the measure you mete will be the measure that shall be meted you again"

I know.
I'm just pointing out that a) you have taken this out of context, b) we do not give to God in order to get, c) it is not a spiritual law that if we give to God he has to give to us; he does not owe us anything.

You have no authority or right to quibble about God's word...just do it

We all have the right - and indeed duty - to study God's word, find out what it means and what it is really saying, and ask the Holy Spirit how it applies to our lives.

Jesus said "if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off".
Would you tell someone who read that to "stop quibbling about the word and just do it"?

He says to the sinner repent, believe the gospel and you shall be saved...will you then say, "oh no Lord, not so hard and fast"

I don't know why you would think that.
Repenting and accepting the Gospel is doctrine and vital for salvation. How much, how and when we give financially, isn't.

It is very true that God is not obliged to save anybody...but He does, nobody has ever repented and believed the gospel and didn't get saved. God sees the heart.

Yes.
What's that got to do with how much money we give?

And of people, nobody gives in order to prosper, that is foolish, it defies the laws of nature. It can only work if the person you have given it to has promised to repay you MORE than you give.

God has given us WAY more than we can ever give to him.
We deserve punishment, death, wrath, Romans 3:23; he has given us salvation, John 3:36, Acts of the Apostles 4:12, 1 John 5:12, peace, Romans 5:1, reconciliation, 2 Corinthians 5:18, eternal life, John 3:16, John 6:40, John 6:54, assurance, 2 Corinthians 5:5, Romans 8:16-17, spiritual gifts, 1 Corinthians 12.

You're interpreting the verse in Matthew to mean "God has promised to give us more MONEY than we give him". Which is, in effect saying "give to God and he'll give you more back".
EVERYTHING we have comes from God - gifts, our jobs etc; we are stewards and he trusts us to use all these things wisely, for him and his glory. When we give, we are only giving back from what he has already given to us.

What farmer would plant his seed and not expect a harvest? if the seed is good, if the soil is good and prepared he will always reap more than he sowed...and God has promised rain.

Yes; except that there are many many people who plant seeds - literal, and the financial ones that televangelists tell them to plant - who do NOT get an increase. Famine exists. The book of Acts tells of a time of famine - and the churches took a collection so that fellow Christians would not starve. They did not tell them to give so that God would give back, plant a seed, have more faith or "stop quibbling about the word" - they gave money to support those who were hungry.

Like ALL of God's promises the promise of prosperity absolutely depends upon FAITH, you have to BELIEVE. If you don't do it in faith looking to God then you might worry and fret about where all your prosperity has come from.

God has given to us all, big time. We are prosperous, even if we do not have much financially; there will always be people in the world who have less than we do.

Show me in the bible where God is not the abundant Provisioner of His people. He is the very God of plenty, of abundance.

God has given us all things; life, gifts, creation to enjoy, every spiritual blessing in Christ. He gives freely and generously; he gives to us so that we can serve, help and bless others.

This does not automatically mean that we will all be financially rich, or even well off, though. Like I said, in the NT, the church gave everything, shared their possessions and gave to other Christians in need.
Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell everything and that it was hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
I notice you didn't answer those points, or was that part of your "not quibbling about the word"?

God is incredibly generous and has given us much more than we could ever give to him. We owe him everything; he owes us nothing.