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Nature is the executor of God's laws (Galileo), and we are unique in having the capacity to appreciate them.
Because they are our laws .. developed over hundreds of years, requiring countless hours of meticulously documented, hard research .. they work for our minds (and not for other minds).Guy Threepwood said:...Nature is the executor of God's laws (Galileo), and we are unique in having the capacity to appreciate them.
They'll accept everything to the right of that comma; but not to the left of it.
Because they are our laws .. developed over hundreds of years, requiring countless hours of meticulously documented, hard research .. they work for our minds (and not for other minds).
Because they are our laws .. developed over hundreds of years, requiring countless hours of meticulously documented, hard research .. they work for our minds (and not for other minds).
The rest is just belief.
Its a belief that anyone 'discovered' laws of nature.? We discovered laws of nature which existed long before we pondered them, we attempted to describe them as best we could, and we got a lot wrong in the process, but we are most certainly not their creators!
Its a belief that anyone 'discovered' laws of nature.
They were synthesised by human minds, (with abundant document evidence thereof), who were trying to make consistent sense of in-common human perceptions, (derived from our senses).
A human mind exploring its own perceptions .. nothing more. The rest is just belief.
Humans were around before Newton. They could see for themselves that, (colloquially), 'what goes up goes down'.We merely named them, or do you believe there was no gravity before Newton?
.. and because you can't, this implies that the perception of gravity is human mind dependentThe big question though is: How can you demonstrate gravity when there are no human minds around to perceive it in the first place?
Answer is: you can't.
Newton didn't "discover" gravity, he created a mathematical model of its operation--which turned out not to be accurate. The universe exhibits orderly behavior which we can construct mental models of and call them laws of nature. But the models are descriptive, not proscriptive.We merely named them, or do you believe there was no gravity before Newton?
Humans were around before Newton. They could see for themselves that, (colloquially), 'what goes up goes down'.
Their description was different, but their sensory perceptions were no different than ours (or Newton's).
The big question though is: How can you demonstrate gravity when there are no human minds around to perceive it in the first place?
Answer is: you can't.
Yes, that would be my point; we didn't create them , we tried to describe them, and we still haven't figured them out.Newton didn't "discover" gravity, he created a mathematical model of its operation--which turned out not to be accurate. The universe exhibits orderly behavior which we can construct mental models of and call them laws of nature. But the models are descriptive, not proscriptive.
Not sure of the pronoun reference here. Do you mean the ordering principle of the universe? Or the mental models we construct and call "laws of nature?"Yes, that would be my point; we didn't create them , we tried to describe them, and we still haven't figured them out.
Well yes, a lot of these discussions tend to get mired in semantics.. but our mental models are an attempt to describe the ordering principles, inadequate as they may be.Not sure of the pronoun reference here. Do you mean the ordering principle of the universe? Or the mental models we construct and call "laws of nature?"
What alternative explanation have you got that fits the observed facts of biology and geology? Flood geology certainly doesn't work; it has been refuted many times.I take your point; how can we demonstrate Darwinian evolution, or Old Earth geology? We can't, we'd have to take that on faith.
All are models created by the human mind .. and in this case, the first four (underlined), are deliberately intended for the purpose of testing them.Newton didn't "discover" gravity, he created a mathematical model of its operation--which turned out not to be accurate. The universe exhibits orderly behavior which we can construct mental models of and call them laws of nature. But the models are descriptive, not proscriptive.
The model of 'the Universe' was most likely created originally, from our visual perceptions (although a lot more human-ness has been thrown into it since). There is no need for it to necessarily refer to it as 'a something' existing independently from the descriptive model, although we all seem addicted to that belief .. (myself included). That belief adds nothing to scientific models, as it cannot be objectively tested. It is an optional belief. The only difference, perhaps, between you and me, is that I know its a belief.Newton didn't "discover" gravity, he created a mathematical model of its operation--which turned out not to be accurate. The universe exhibits orderly behavior which we can construct mental models of and call them laws of nature. But the models are descriptive, not proscriptive.
No .. there's abundant objective evidence for demonstrating both.I take your point; how can we demonstrate Darwinian evolution, or Old Earth geology? We can't, we'd have to take that on faith.
Physical laws aren't 'obeyed'. That's just backwards thinking for people who don't understand how they have been distilled from observations.But we can observe natural laws like gravity that have to be obeyed, even by my dog, whether he can name it or not, as much as he tries to defy it!
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