The Battle of Armageddon

reddogs

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Here is some interesting things which point to this..

"We need to study the pouring out of the seventh vial. The powers of evil will not yield up the conflict without a struggle. But Providence has a part to act in the battle of Armageddon. When the earth is lighted with the glory of the angel of Revelation eighteen, the religious elements, good and evil, will awake from slumber, and the armies of the living God will take the field.17SDA Bible Commentary 7:983.

Four mighty angels hold back the powers of this earth till the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads. The nations of the world are eager for conflict; but they are held in check by the angels. When this restraining power is removed, there will come a time of trouble and anguish. Deadly instruments of warfare will be invented. Vessels, with their living cargo, will be entombed in the great deep. All who have not the spirit of truth will unite under the leadership of satanic agencies. But they are to be kept under control till the time shall come for the great battle of Armageddon.18SDA Bible Commentary 7:967.

Every form of evil is to spring into intense activity. Evil angels unite their powers with evil men, and as they have been in constant conflict and attained an experience in the best modes of deception and battle, and have been strengthening for centuries, they will not yield the last great final contest without a desperate struggle. All the world will be on one side or the other of the question. The battle of Armageddon will be fought, and that day must find none of us sleeping. Wide awake we must be, as wise virgins having oil in our vessels with our lamps....

The power of the Holy Ghost must be upon us, and the Captain of the Lord's host will stand at the head of the angels of heaven to direct the battle. Solemn events before us are yet to transpire. Trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded, vial after vial poured out one after another upon the inhabitants of the earth. Scenes of stupendous interest are right upon us.19SDA Bible Commentary 7:982.
 

dwb001

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Here is some interesting things which point to this..

"We need to study the pouring out of the seventh vial. The powers of evil will not yield up the conflict without a struggle. But Providence has a part to act in the battle of Armageddon. When the earth is lighted with the glory of the angel of Revelation eighteen, the religious elements, good and evil, will awake from slumber, and the armies of the living God will take the field.17SDA Bible Commentary 7:983.

Four mighty angels hold back the powers of this earth till the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads. The nations of the world are eager for conflict; but they are held in check by the angels. When this restraining power is removed, there will come a time of trouble and anguish. Deadly instruments of warfare will be invented. Vessels, with their living cargo, will be entombed in the great deep. All who have not the spirit of truth will unite under the leadership of satanic agencies. But they are to be kept under control till the time shall come for the great battle of Armageddon.18SDA Bible Commentary 7:967.

Every form of evil is to spring into intense activity. Evil angels unite their powers with evil men, and as they have been in constant conflict and attained an experience in the best modes of deception and battle, and have been strengthening for centuries, they will not yield the last great final contest without a desperate struggle. All the world will be on one side or the other of the question. The battle of Armageddon will be fought, and that day must find none of us sleeping. Wide awake we must be, as wise virgins having oil in our vessels with our lamps....

The power of the Holy Ghost must be upon us, and the Captain of the Lord's host will stand at the head of the angels of heaven to direct the battle. Solemn events before us are yet to transpire. Trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded, vial after vial poured out one after another upon the inhabitants of the earth. Scenes of stupendous interest are right upon us.19SDA Bible Commentary 7:982.
Have you read Revelation? There is a lot of additional commentary built into your version of events.... careful of Rev 22:18-19.
 
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reddogs

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This seems to put it before the New Jerusalem comes down as Revelation is clear that is when the wicked meet their end in the Lake of Fire. So this can only be at the Second Coming, and as you can see it is when the Seven Last Plagues fall from the text, and SOP says the calamities will come in rapid succession which I think corresponds to the one hour (2 weeks prophetic time) the nations get with the Beast.

'Troublous times are before us. The judgments of God are abroad in the land. Calamities follow one another in rapid succession. Soon God is to rise out of His place to shake terribly the earth, and to punish the inhabitants for their iniquity. Then He will stand up in behalf of His people, and will give them His protecting care. He will throw His everlasting arms around them to shield them from all harm.' The Review and Herald, April 14, 1904.

Revelation 17:12
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Revelation 18:10
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Revelation 18:17
For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

Revelation 18:19
And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Revelation 16:1-21
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
 
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reddogs

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Have you read Revelation? There is a lot of additional commentary built into your version of events.... careful of Rev 22:18-19.
That clearly is what will be in the New Jerusalem as you can see, and you are in the Adventist section of the forum where we use SOP...

Revelation 22:1-21
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
 
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BobRyan

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Here is some interesting things which point to this..

"We need to study the pouring out of the seventh vial. The powers of evil will not yield up the conflict without a struggle. But Providence has a part to act in the battle of Armageddon. When the earth is lighted with the glory of the angel of Revelation eighteen, the religious elements, good and evil, will awake from slumber, and the armies of the living God will take the field.17SDA Bible Commentary 7:983.

Four mighty angels hold back the powers of this earth till the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads. The nations of the world are eager for conflict; but they are held in check by the angels. When this restraining power is removed, there will come a time of trouble and anguish. Deadly instruments of warfare will be invented. Vessels, with their living cargo, will be entombed in the great deep. All who have not the spirit of truth will unite under the leadership of satanic agencies. But they are to be kept under control till the time shall come for the great battle of Armageddon.18SDA Bible Commentary 7:967.

Every form of evil is to spring into intense activity. Evil angels unite their powers with evil men, and as they have been in constant conflict and attained an experience in the best modes of deception and battle, and have been strengthening for centuries, they will not yield the last great final contest without a desperate struggle. All the world will be on one side or the other of the question. The battle of Armageddon will be fought, and that day must find none of us sleeping. Wide awake we must be, as wise virgins having oil in our vessels with our lamps....

The power of the Holy Ghost must be upon us, and the Captain of the Lord's host will stand at the head of the angels of heaven to direct the battle. Solemn events before us are yet to transpire. Trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded, vial after vial poured out one after another upon the inhabitants of the earth. Scenes of stupendous interest are right upon us.19SDA Bible Commentary 7:982.
good quotes - thanks for sharing them

Rev 16 calls the kings of all the Earth to gather armies for the battle of Armageddon - this is long after the little time of trouble events that happen before the close of probation.

Saints are not going to be assaulted by jet fighters or tanks, ICBMs etc - because it is so easy already to assault and martyr them by much simpler means as history shows.

Rev 19 then shows all the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to fight against the armies of heaven with Christ as the lead of an army of angels.
 
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reddogs

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good quotes - thanks for sharing them

Rev 16 calls the kings of all the Earth to gather armies for the battle of Armageddon - this is long after the little time of trouble events that happen before the close of probation.

Saints are not going to be assaulted by jet fighters or tanks - because it is so easy already to assault and martyr them by much simpler means as history shows.

Rev 19 then shows all the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to fight against the armies of heaven with Christ as the lead of an army of angels.
Here is even more on how Adventist formed there understanding on this...

"The question of Armageddon was not one of prime concern to the emerging Seventh-day Adventist leaders; however, the timing of the plagues was. Early in 1846, probably as a result of the visions of Ellen Harmon, James White adopted the view that all of the seven last plagues were in the future but before the Second Advent. This view differed markedly from the views held by Miller and Litch. Seventh-day Adventists have held to this view through the years regardless of what their particular views on Armageddon and the king of the north have been." ... What Adventists have Taught on Armageddon
 
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reddogs

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Here is from William Fagal the director on the Ellen White website...

"I have understood the battle of Armageddon to be the conquest of Jesus over the unsaved, unrepentant world at His second coming. It is mentioned under the sixth plague (Rev. 16:16), where it is logical to assume that it is "the battle of that great day of God Almighty" (Rev. 16:14). This is described in Revelation 19, beginning in v. 11."

This appears to be from the lesson but doesnt give which one...
"The Seven Last Plagues, preliminary to and including the Battle of Armageddon, focus on the end of human history and the coming of Christ. It is with this background that we enter into this Bible study.

1. What great crisis will this world soon face? Revelation 13:16, 17.

MY BIBLE SAYS: "And he causes all, . . . to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

2. If any individual worships the beast, what will he receive? Revelation 14:9, 10.

MY BIBLE SAYS: "If anyone worships the beast and his image, . . . he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation."

3. What is the "wrath of God, . . poured out full strength"? Revelation 15:1.

MY BIBLE SAYS: "Then I saw . . . seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete."

Since Satan hates God, he desires all men and women to receive his mark rather than God's seal. When every human being has chosen between the Mark of the Beast and the Seal of God, the plagues will fall. All who knowingly accept the allegiance of the beast, substituting a human decree for the divinely inspired commandments of God, will be recipients of the Seven Last Plagues.

4. Revelation 16:2-15 lists the first six plagues (1. grievous sore, 2. sea as blood, 3. fountains and rivers of waters as blood, 4. sun scorching men, 5. darkness on seat of the beast, Armageddon). After these six plagues are described, what announcement comes from heaven? Revelation 16:15.

MY BIBLE SAYS: "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps
his garments, •'

What sense would it make for Jesus to declare that He was coming as a thief after the plagues if He had come before? This text is Christ's encouragement to His followers urging them to perseverance in light of the imminence of His return.

These plagues are called "The Seven Last Plagues." Ten plagues fell on Egypt in Old Testament times. The first three fell on both the Egyptians and the Israelites; the seven fell only on the Egyptians.

At the end, the Seven Last Plagues fall only on the wicked while the righteous, still on earth, are protected. In ancient Israel the wicked Egyptians held the Israelites in captivity. The plagues broke the hold of the wicked upon the nghteous and enabled them to go free.

How does the Bible compare the experience of ancient Israel with the church today? I Corinthians 10:11.

MY BIBLE SAYS: "Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come."

5. Does God promise to protect His people during the plagues? Psalm 91:2-10.

MY BIBLE SAYS: "I will say of the Lord, 'He is my refuge and my fortress; . . . You shall not be afraid of the terror by night, nor of the arrow that flies by day, . . . A thousand may fall at your side, and ten thousand at your right hand; but it shall not come near you No evil shall befall you, nor shall any plague come near your dwelling; . . . For He shall give His angels charge over you, to keep you in all your ways.' "

6. What assurance does God give that He will feed us during this time? Isaiah 33:16, 17.

MY BIBLE SAYS: "Bread will be given him, his water will be sure. Your eyes will see the king in His beauty; they will see the land that is very far off."

7, How will Satan attempt to unite all nations at war? Revelation 16:14.

MY BIBLE SAYS: "For they are spirits of demons, . . . which go out to the kings of the earth . . . to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."

8. What is this battle called? Revelation 16:16. MY BIBLE SAYS: "And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon."

The word Armageddon comes from the Hebrew "Har Megiddo" meaning mountain of assembly.

During one of Israel's greatest crises, described in the Old Testament, when it appeared that doom was certain, God intervened and sent reinforcements at precisely the right moment. During the last days of earth's history, infuriated by the plagues, the whole world will be turned into a vast battlefield as the wicked attempt to destroy God's people. It will appear as if their doom is certain.

9. As the whole world is mobilized to destroy the people of God, what divine act takes place? Revelation 16:17-21.

MY BIBLE SAYS: "Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, 'It is done!' . . . And there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth."

10. How is Jesus described in Revelation 19:1 1 - 16?

MY BIBLE SAYS: "Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. . . . He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, . . . and the armies in heaven, . . . followed Him on white horses. . . . And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS."

In the last moments of time, Jesus returns as King of kings and Lord of lords to finally and completely destroy Satan and his work. Christ's followers triumph; right conquers." ...https://www.lobelvilletnsda.org/bible-study/bible-lessons/26-armageddon-and-the-seven-last-plagues
 
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dwb001

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Here is some interesting things which point to this..

"We need to study the pouring out of the seventh vial. The powers of evil will not yield up the conflict without a struggle. But Providence has a part to act in the battle of Armageddon. When the earth is lighted with the glory of the angel of Revelation eighteen, the religious elements, good and evil, will awake from slumber, and the armies of the living God will take the field.17SDA Bible Commentary 7:983.

Four mighty angels hold back the powers of this earth till the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads. The nations of the world are eager for conflict; but they are held in check by the angels. When this restraining power is removed, there will come a time of trouble and anguish. Deadly instruments of warfare will be invented. Vessels, with their living cargo, will be entombed in the great deep. All who have not the spirit of truth will unite under the leadership of satanic agencies. But they are to be kept under control till the time shall come for the great battle of Armageddon.18SDA Bible Commentary 7:967.

Every form of evil is to spring into intense activity. Evil angels unite their powers with evil men, and as they have been in constant conflict and attained an experience in the best modes of deception and battle, and have been strengthening for centuries, they will not yield the last great final contest without a desperate struggle. All the world will be on one side or the other of the question. The battle of Armageddon will be fought, and that day must find none of us sleeping. Wide awake we must be, as wise virgins having oil in our vessels with our lamps....

The power of the Holy Ghost must be upon us, and the Captain of the Lord's host will stand at the head of the angels of heaven to direct the battle. Solemn events before us are yet to transpire. Trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded, vial after vial poured out one after another upon the inhabitants of the earth. Scenes of stupendous interest are right upon us.19SDA Bible Commentary 7:982.
Have you read Revelation? There is a lot of additional commentary built into your version of events.... careful of Rev 22:18-19.
That clearly is what will be in the New Jerusalem as you can see, and you are in the Adventist section of the forum where we use SOP...

Revelation 22:1-21
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
What does Standard Operating Procedures have to do with if you have read Revelation?

And the part I quoted is not "in" the new Earth... it is the closing of the book.
Much like the first verses of Revelation is the opening of the book.
 
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reddogs

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Have you read Revelation? There is a lot of additional commentary built into your version of events.... careful of Rev 22:18-19.

What does Standard Operating Procedures have to do with if you have read Revelation?

And the part I quoted is not "in" the new Earth... it is the closing of the book.
Much like the first verses of Revelation is the opening of the book.
Spirit of Prophecy...
 
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reddogs

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Here is a good article from Steve Wohlberg..

"Surprisingly, this exact word is used only once in the Bible, in Revelation 16:16. The Word says, "And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon." For a fact, there is no literal "place" anywhere on earth bearing this exact name. It's true, there is a valley north of Jerusalem which was called "Megiddo" (Judges 5:19) in Bible days. It was a place where the armies of Israel met foreign enemies in bloody battles. Because "Megiddo" sounds like "Armageddon," millions assume this same place will be the location of a final showdown against the Jews. But is this correct?

"Armageddon" represents the apex, the climax, the final battle in Revelation. Will it be a military battle in the Middle East?

Let's be consistent. Throughout Revelation, as shown above, we've seen Middle Eastern terms used in a Christ-centered, heavenly, spiritual sense. When it comes to "Armageddon," which is a term depicting the grand finale in the greatest apocalyptic book ever written, does it make sense for God's last book suddenly to shift gears away from its thematic focus by pinpointing a literal, local, high-tech, Middle East-based conflagration involving Russians, Chinese, Syrians, and literal Jews?

We don't have to guess. The answer is in the context surrounding Revelation 16:16. While it is outside the scope of this article to discuss the details, here are the main points:

1. The battle involves "the kings of the earth and of the whole world" (verse 14), which could not possibly fit inside the valley of Megiddo.

2. Revelation's focus is "the temple of heaven" (verse 17), not a supposedly soon-to-be-rebuilt Jewish Temple on earth.

3. The effects of Armageddon are global, far beyond the Middle East (verses 18-20).

4. The primary system identified as being destroyed at Armageddon is spiritual "Babylon" (verse 19), not Russia, China, or Syria.

In essence, "Armageddon" depicts the final battle between King Jesus and His heavenly armies (Rev. 19:11-19) against the worldwide forces of Satan and Mystery, Babylon. At the Second Coming the devil loses, and his global kingdom comes crashing down. Jesus doesn't need to nuke His foes, but only to use His "sharp two-edged sword" (Rev. 1:16; see also Rev. 19:15), which represents His Word of truth (Eph. 6:17). When Christ descends from the east He will deliver "Israel" from the clutches of "Babylon." But which Israel will He deliver? According to the thematic genius of the entire book of Revelation, it must be "the Israel of God" (Gal. 6:16) centered in Jesus Christ whose home is the new Jerusalem (Rev. 21:10).

The Middle East remains a powder keg. The U.S. struggle against Muslim radicals continues. And there's no earthly solution on the horizon. In the midst of such a high-tension environment, millions of America's conservative, politically active Christians believe God Himself is not only behind modern Israel, but that He will finally annihilate the enemies of the Jewish state at Armageddon, an idea forcefully proclaimed in the book Armageddon. Yet this doctrine is contrary to the New Testament.

Beyond this, I think the teaching actually is harmful, because it adds extra fuel to an already raging Arab fire. An America at war against terror doesn't need this!

A careful study of "the Revelation of Jesus Christ" shows that conservative Christianity's massive God-is-behind-modern-Israel theology is not true. Revelation's focus is not on "Israel after the flesh" (Israel One), but on "the Israel of God" (Israel Two) composed of both Jews and non-Jews (including Arabs), who are centered in Jesus Christ.

Real peace can be found in only one place, and it's available to Jews, Palestinians, and Christians alike. It's found at the foot of the cross, in the heart of a Man who loves us all and who died for the whole world."
 
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BobRyan

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Here is even more on how Adventist formed there understanding on this...

"The question of Armageddon was not one of prime concern to the emerging Seventh-day Adventist leaders; however, the timing of the plagues was. Early in 1846, probably as a result of the visions of Ellen Harmon, James White adopted the view that all of the seven last plagues were in the future but before the Second Advent. This view differed markedly from the views held by Miller and Litch. Seventh-day Adventists have held to this view through the years regardless of what their particular views on Armageddon and the king of the north have been." ... What Adventists have Taught on Armageddon
True - that the view of Armageddon, the second coming , the millennium etc - was very different for Millerites than it is for Seventh-day Adventists.

And it is also true that the 7 plagues of Rev 16 are all future. So the 6th Plague calling for Nations to gather real armies to a real location to fight a real battle -- is very literal. And we see all of that literally "assembled" in Rev 19. Where literally two armies meet according to the chapter - at the appearing of Christ.
 
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BobRyan

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Here is from William Fagal the director on the Ellen White website...

"I have understood the battle of Armageddon to be the conquest of Jesus over the unsaved, unrepentant world at His second coming. It is mentioned under the sixth plague (Rev. 16:16), where it is logical to assume that it is "the battle of that great day of God Almighty" (Rev. 16:14). This is described in Revelation 19, beginning in v. 11."
I agree -- real armies are fully gathered in Rev 19 -- and Rev 16 is the call for them to assemble.
"The Seven Last Plagues, preliminary to and including the Battle of Armageddon, focus on the end of human history and the coming of Christ. It is with this background that we enter into this Bible study.

1. What great crisis will this world soon face? Revelation 13:16, 17.

MY BIBLE SAYS: "And he causes all, . . . to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

2. If any individual worships the beast, what will he receive? Revelation 14:9, 10.

MY BIBLE SAYS: "If anyone worships the beast and his image, . . . he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation."

3. What is the "wrath of God, . . poured out full strength"? Revelation 15:1.

MY BIBLE SAYS: "Then I saw . . . seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete."
yep.
Since Satan hates God, he desires all men and women to receive his mark rather than God's seal. When every human being has chosen between the Mark of the Beast and the Seal of God, the plagues will fall. All who knowingly accept the allegiance of the beast, substituting a human decree for the divinely inspired commandments of God, will be recipients of the Seven Last Plagues.
that appears to be the case.
4. Revelation 16:2-15 lists the first six plagues (1. grievous sore, 2. sea as blood, 3. fountains and rivers of waters as blood, 4. sun scorching men, 5. darkness on seat of the beast, Armageddon). After these six plagues are described, what announcement comes from heaven? Revelation 16:15.

MY BIBLE SAYS: "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps
his garments, •'

What sense would it make for Jesus to declare that He was coming as a thief after the plagues if He had come before?
agreed.
7, How will Satan attempt to unite all nations at war? Revelation 16:14.

MY BIBLE SAYS: "For they are spirits of demons, . . . which go out to the kings of the earth . . . to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."

8. What is this battle called? Revelation 16:16. MY BIBLE SAYS: "And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon."

The word Armageddon comes from the Hebrew "Har Megiddo" meaning mountain of assembly.
The armies of Satan and man are gathered in Rev 19 to fight against the one who appears in the heavens with an army of Angels in Rev 19.

Christ wins of course - but that is how it ends.
 
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Semper-Fi

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The Battle of Armageddon

The battle is not called “the battle of Armageddon”, it is called
the “battle of that great day of God Almighty” Revelation 16:14

The word Armageddon is a Greek form of the Hebrew name
har Megiddo. It means “hill (or mountain) of Megiddo.”

Ancient Israel, Megiddo and the Plain of Esdraelon (also known as
the Valley of Jezreel) became the battleground of the centuries.

Megiddo and the Plain of Esdraelon will become the
staging ground, or mustering area, for the greatest
concentration of military might ever assembled.

Joel 3:1-2, 9-14, Revelation 14:18-20; 19:15.Jehoshaphat
means “judgment of Yahweh,” or “judgment of the Eternal.”

The focal point of the battle will be in the Valley
of Jehoshaphat, also called the valley of decision.

The Valley of Jehoshaphat, which is situated between Jerusalem
and the Mount of Olives, is known today as the Kidron Valley.
 
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reddogs

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Well, here is a good description..
"Armageddon Meaning
The actual word for “Armageddon” only appears once in the Bible (Revelation 16:16). Even though most of the New Testament is written in Greek, this comes from the Hebrew word which means, “Mount Megiddo", which may be the same with Har-megiddo; for the Hebrew word (rh) is read "Ar" by the Greeks; so the city Argarize is interpreted the mountain of the most High.

What Is the Battle of Armageddon?

Revelation 16:16 - ""Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon." - describes what happens after God pours out the sixth bowl of wrath (one of the many plagues that permeates the Revelation narrative).

In this verse, John, the author of Revelation, writes about the gathering of earthly rulers and armies to a place called Armageddon. The word "Armageddon" is derived from the Hebrew "Har-Megiddo," and it is generally understood to be a symbolic location for a final, climactic battle.

The Battle of Armageddon is described in more detail in Revelation 19:11-21 (NIV), where it portrays a dramatic confrontation between the forces of good, led by Jesus Christ (the rider on a white horse), and the forces of evil, symbolically represented by the beast and the false prophet. The antichrist gathers “kings” in a placed called Armageddon. These kings, loyal to the antichrist, will gather their armies to wage war against the people of God. This battle results in the defeat of the enemies of God and the ultimate triumph of righteousness.

We see hints of this war in Revelation 16:14 and in Revelation 20:7-9, where Satan gathers enemies from the four corners of the earth (in essence, everywhere). They’ll surround the camp of the Christians, but fire from heaven will consume them." What Is the Battle of Armageddon? It's Meaning and Significance
 
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reddogs

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So there is a gathering and we see it is demon spirits which work miracles before the leaders of the earth and before the whole world and gather them for the battle against God.

Revelation 16:13-14
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

We see in the Bible what is a final separation of the righteous saints from the wicked, a gathering of the righteous for salvation and deliverance by Christ and His angels, and the gathering of the rebellious wicked to be slain when they fight at this battle. We see more description in Revelation 17 and 19.

Revelation 17:14
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Revelation 19:16
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

We see a similar theme in Zephaniah when God's people are assembled in the day of the Lord.

Zephaniah 2:3
1 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired;
2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the Lord come upon you, before the day of the Lord's anger come upon you.
3 Seek ye the Lord, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger.

This battle of the day of the Lord is a development of Gods wrath on the rebellious wicked is presented under what is the symbolic name of Armageddon. The meaning of the word, as evident in the description of the battle itself, is not conclusive, except that all derivations of the word point to the general meaning of gathering or assembling. Let take a look..

Megiddo. This may be a possible reference to the ancient city of Megiddo with a Canaanite fortress at the foot of the Carmel range and was famous as a battlefield down through the centuries, and thus could be a place for "gathering" or "assembling" of armies for attack.

Mount of Megiddo. Here megiddo is assigned the meaning of "the place of God". Thus har (mountain) and megiddo ("place of God") would signify "mountain of the place of God," which makes it basically "the mount of the congregation," where God dwells in heaven.

We see it used in reference to where Lucifer, the devil, seeks to ascend or wants to gain, in Isaiah..

Isaiah 14:12-15
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

So we have evil spirits whose leader we know is Satan, assembling of the kings of the earth and the wicked, and as we see it is not necessarily a physical gathering of the armies of the world into one spot on earth, but a battle which involves them against the saints, and the Lord, the King of Kings, Jesus at the Second Coming.
 
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reddogs

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The battle is not called “the battle of Armageddon”, it is called
the “battle of that great day of God Almighty” Revelation 16:14

The word Armageddon is a Greek form of the Hebrew name
har Megiddo. It means “hill (or mountain) of Megiddo.”

Ancient Israel, Megiddo and the Plain of Esdraelon (also known as
the Valley of Jezreel) became the battleground of the centuries.

Megiddo and the Plain of Esdraelon will become the
staging ground, or mustering area, for the greatest
concentration of military might ever assembled.

Joel 3:1-2, 9-14, Revelation 14:18-20; 19:15.Jehoshaphat
means “judgment of Yahweh,” or “judgment of the Eternal.”

The focal point of the battle will be in the Valley
of Jehoshaphat, also called the valley of decision.

The Valley of Jehoshaphat, which is situated between Jerusalem
and the Mount of Olives, is known today as the Kidron Valley.
That is correct, it is the “battle of that great day of God Almighty” and we read "gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon", so it has become called as the 'battle' at that place 'Armageddon' for short. Now as for what will unfold, it shows itself to be Satan against God in this culmination battle because there is not much that humans can do, just take a look at what happened to the "great host" of a army of the king of Syria sent to get Elisha.

2 Kings 6:14-18
14 Therefore sent he thither horses, and chariots, and a great host: and they came by night, and compassed the city about.
15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?
16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.
17 And Elisha prayed, and said, Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the Lord opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
18 And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the Lord, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.
 
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reddogs

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True - that the view of Armageddon, the second coming , the millennium etc - was very different for Millerites than it is for Seventh-day Adventists.

And it is also true that the 7 plagues of Rev 16 are all future. So the 6th Plague calling for Nations to gather real armies to a real location to fight a real battle -- is very literal. And we see all of that literally "assembled" in Rev 19. Where literally two armies meet according to the chapter - at the appearing of Christ.
But I think we can all agree that this battle will begin with the gathering at the sixth plague where we see the “water” of the “great river Euphrates” will dry up in order to prepare the way for the “kings from the east.” Then we see coming out from the mouth of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet “three unclean spirits” which make signs to seduce the “kings” of the “whole world” and to gather them together at the place given as “Armageddon” which will battle between heaven and earth, between Christ and Satan. A final effort by the part of the evil to incite the world to fight against God and wipe out and annihilate the people of God with what will end as a military attempt to face Jesus and the angels at the second coming. The sixth plague merely announces the preparation of the earthly powers or evil with the "spirits of devils" gathering the "kings of the earth", and the "whole world", for the actual battle of Armageddon.

Revelation 16:12-15
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Now begins the actual battle, as the battle itself “will take place during the seventh plague which clearly is the Second Coming opening with God declaring "It is done". So the sixth and the seventh plagues are the two consecutive
stages in which Armageddon event will begin and the take place with a great and mighty earthquake that will rend the earth and we see “noises and thunderings and lightning” as well as “great hail” and then we have subsequent fall of Babylon the great. The devil knows it foretells his soon coming end is approaching, so strives to wipe out the saints, but Christ comes to help his remnant and deliver them from the oppression against them here on earth by Babylon and the earthly powers supporting her.

Revelation 16:17-21
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

We then in the next chapter, see the earthly powers supporting Babylon laid out for one prophetic hour, but they see the truth of Babylon on turn on her.

Revelation 17:12-18
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

In Revelation 18 Babylon is described in greater detail and the call made to come out of her, and the warning given that "God hath remembered her iniquities."
Revelation 18:1-5
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Then in Revelation 19 we see Christ as He comes to earth to fight the kings of the earth and the wicked of the world, and describes what the end is for those who have the mark of the beast, and the "beast" and "false prophet".
Revelation 19:14-21
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Then in Revelation 20 we see the sequence of what happens at the Second Coming with the saints it the graves brought up at the first resurrection and taken to heaven to be with Christ in His kingdom and "reign with him a thousand years."
Revelation 20:1-6
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And then we see the "dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" come out in the resurrection of damnation and they continue the attack as Satan deceives and they meet their end against the city of God, the New Jerusalem, in the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:7-10
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 
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BobRyan

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Then we see coming out from the mouth of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet “three unclean spirits” which make signs to seduce the “kings” of the “whole world” and to gather them together at the place given as “Armageddon” which will battle between heaven and earth, between Christ and Satan.
The way that demons in whatever form they choose to take -- convince all world rulers - all nations, all armies to gather... and then to be fully assembled by the time we get to Rev 19 - with all armies of Earth poised to fight in a real war - a real army coming down out of heaven - is not too difficult to resolve given that the fake second coming had to have happened long before that - and so direct guidance to nations from the one who has just done the fake second coming - would not be too difficult
A final effort by the part of the evil to incite the world to fight against God
But in this case - it is about fighting a real army coming down out of the real sky with real armies on real Earth.

Those are the only two armies that show up in Rev 19 as a result of the Rev 16 - sixth plague gathering call for all world governments to fight with real armies.
The sixth plague merely announces the preparation of the earthly powers or evil with the "spirits of devils" gathering the "kings of the earth", and the "whole world", for the actual battle of Armageddon
Indeed. But the focus is on real armies of earth - really gathering and really confronting an army coming down out of the real sky in Rev 19 where the real armies of Earth are then wiped out according to Rev 19
 
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reddogs

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The way that demons in whatever form they choose to take -- convince all world rulers - all nations, all armies to gather... and then to be fully assembled by the time we get to Rev 19 - with all armies of Earth poised to fight in a real war - a real army coming down out of heaven - is not too difficult to resolve given that the fake second coming had to have happened long before that - and so direct guidance to nations from the one who has just done the fake second coming - would not be too difficult

But in this case - it is about fighting a real army coming down out of the real sky with real armies on real Earth.

Those are the only two armies that show up in Rev 19 as a result of the Rev 16 - sixth plague gathering call for all world governments to fight with real armies.

Indeed. But the focus is on real armies of earth - really gathering and really confronting an army coming down out of the real sky in Rev 19 where the real armies of Earth are then wiped out according to Rev 19
I think, much like the current Israel-Hamas war, the whole world will be aroused by these spirits against the remnant saints, (in my thinking accused as causing some great harm for the world, ie. trouble such as never was) and come to destroy them. The saints hear God say "It is done", so they know Christ is coming, but the devil also sees what is going to happen and the battle of Christ and His angels against the armies of men with Satan and his demons begins, something akin to 2 Kings 6:17 when Elisha prayed, and the Lord opened the eyes of his servant and he saw the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire (angels) round about Elisha. And then, yes, we see the destruction of the army of men in Revelation 19, but now we have these wicked brought back up after the 1000 years in the resurrection of damnation, and Satan again deceives them to now attack the city of God, the New Jerusalem which has come down with the saints. Here now the devil will perish along with his demons and the wicked as he and the evil spirits will be consumed along with the unrepented sinners in ultimate end for them all in the lake of fire..

The one verse which gives me pause for a bit is Revelation 19:20 "And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

As in Adventist understanding the 'Beast' is the antichrist entity, and we shall see who the 'false prophet' turns out as.
 
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rdclmn72

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May 19, 2007
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dunlap, tn
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Dt 30 reveals that in the end time Israel will return, Am 9 prophesies the return.
Armaggedon is where armies from the north and south meet prior to ascending toward Jerusalem.
Zechariah 14 talks of The Lord defending Jerusalem in the last day.
The Bible talks of a literal return, literal armies invading and being destroyed.
 
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