The atheist indoctrination project

[Cassandra]

MEMBERS OF THE EAC UNITE!

I did both public school and homeschool. They both have their pros and cons. I particularly enjoyed the variety of subjects I got to pick from when I homeschooled.

For those interested: I switched to homeschooling because I used to be an agoraphobic.

 

[Lynden1000]

It only took around 3% of Russians to be for Communism to go from Czarist Russian to Stalininst Russia. A little poison goes a long way, eh?

Survival of the fittest. Any country that lets itself be overtaken by a piddling 3% of the population deserves what it gets.

 

[TeddyKGB]

For those interested: I switched to homeschooling because I used to be an agoraphobic.

Me, too. Then I started wearing wool sweaters only.

 

[WarEagle]

oh really? how many black kids do you have in your class rooms, or latinos, heck anyone outside your kids?

Given that the area we live in is overwhelmingly white and wealthy, how many would there be if they were in a government school classroom?

You forget that one of the unique things about homeschooling is that the schooling is not limited to the classroom.

Like I said, we make sure that the schooling incorporates real life applications, which means that they're out and about constantly putting their schoolwork to work by dealing with a wide variety of people.

How many elderly people are in your children's classroom? How many crippled people? How many businesspeople? How many holocaust survivors do your children know? How many veterans?

None. Your children are stuck in a room with a bunch of other children their age who are more or less exactly like them. Yes, they may have a differen skin color, but they're still children and do not have a variety of life experiences to share.

Do children have the opportunity in their classrooms to exercise what they've learned in real life situations? Or do they just sit around memorizing facts and figures?

how many different views of issues in life do you have in your "school"?

How many are there is a government school classroom?

How many depends on how many people my kids deal with on a given day.

are they all the same one you have? then i'd say yours is not anywhere near real life

And the difference is that your children sit in a classroom with other children who are more or less exactly like they are, while my children are out in the real world learning how to interact and socialize with a wide variety of people.

 

[WarEagle]

Sorry, I don't believe you.

And I should care...why?

School is the first place (and, for about fifteen years, the biggest place) where all of us (who aren't homeschooled) are forced to deal with, work with, strive with and against, people from different backgrounds, with different beliefs, different paradigms, etc. All homeschooled children suffer through that lack.

Actually, they don't. Are you actually telling me that no one outside of a government school has a different background, a different belief, a different paradigm?

My kids deal with a much wider variety of people than they would be sitting in a government classroom with other thirteen and fourteen year olds.

The lack of socialisation is intrinsic to homeschooling, and can't be.

I don't know what to tell you. My kids are out and among people all the time. They're friendly. They're outgoing. They're well mannered. Are you telling me that the only people children can learn social skills with are other children?

Frankly, they're better socialized than most children their age because, where government school kids are around other government school kids all day, my kids are among adults who actually expect certain behavior from them, as well as children their own age.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

And I should care...why?



Actually, they don't. Are you actually telling me that no one outside of a government school has a different background, a different belief, a different paradigm?

My kids deal with a much wider variety of people than they would be sitting in a government classroom with other thirteen and fourteen year olds.



I don't know what to tell you. My kids are out and among people all the time. They're friendly. They're outgoing. They're well mannered. Are you telling me that the only people children can learn social skills with are other children?

Frankly, they're better socialized than most children their age because, where government school kids are around other government school kids all day, my kids are among adults who actually expect certain behavior from them, as well as children their own age.

I havn't met many homeschooled people, its true... however, the 10 or so I met certainly didn't seem to fit in well with other, more mainstreamed people... I think its great that your kids get out and meet lots of people, and that their friendly and polite (friendl;y and polite were certainly attributes of the homeschoolees I've met... but they still didn't quite "fit") but my question is, even though they are getting decent, polite and formative social interaction... are they getting it with their PEERS... or, like the homeschoolers I have encountered, will they come across to their peers like they just aren't quite on the same page?

I don't know what the fianl stats are or anything, maybe you can help me... how do homeschooled people go in the university and job markets? is there any sort of causal link or statistical corelation between homeschooling and university/job achievment or satisfation? Either positive or negative, I'd be interested to hear about it

 

[WarEagle]

thats a load of BS

Actually, it's not. I would get papers from students and they looked like they were written by nine year olds. Ask any college level instructor and they'll tell you the same thing.

My mother is a sociology professor at a very well known university and she's had the same experiences.

I help her grade papers sometimes and they're a trainwreck.

it has nothing to do with school

I see. So then, children weren't supposed to learn to read and write in school?

that has to do with how they were taught, nothing to do with homeschooling, stop trying to claim homeschooling makes you magically better than being in public school, it doesn't

I didn't. I've met homeschooled kids who were morons.

However, it is a fact that homeschooled children consistently outscore their public school counterparts.

i'll say it again, homeschooling has nothing to do with it

It does if the homeschooled child is given opportunities that the public school child isn't.

well i'm glad for him, but i've known people who did the same things in public school, in fact, i've done the same thing myself.

You did that at thirteen?

well i'm glad for your kids, but they don't prove homeschooling is better.

No, they don't prove it but they are one more admission in the growing evidence for the advantages of homeschooling over turning your children over to a government agency.

i've had teachers who have cared that much in public schools before, but its a hard deal for them/

Like I said, I was a teacher (and have thought about going back to it at the high school level) and I come from a family of teachers so I know what teachers go through.

Usually, it has nothing to do with caring or not caring, but with the fact that public schools are just not effective.

The biggest problem the government school teacher has to deal with is that, the way the system is set up, they have to cater to the slowest child. The "weak link" principle.

They can't discipline children any more because the admin is afraid of a lawsuit and they just don't have the resources anymore to be able to offer the children the opportunities we do.

 

[trunks2k]

Since the conversation has moved to discussing homeschooling, private schooling, and public schooling I'll give my normal spiel on the subject:

I think the comparisons among the different forms of schooling are generally not valid. Public schools have to take in anyone, they don't get to self-select or filter out the students. So they are naturally going to get the vast majority of the bottom of the barrel students so to speak. i.e. Students that are poor and are overall more concerned with how to make enough money to get by today rather than long range plans, students with parents that don't care about their education, students with disabilities, etc. Those students are going to skew the statistics down. It's not that a good student cannot do well in a public school (I personally got an excellent pre-high school public education), it's that the overall stats are skewed to make things look worse than they really are.

Meanwhile private schools and home schooling has self selecting going on. I'd argue that the most important part of an education is having a parent that actually cares about the child's education. Due to the cost involved in private education* and the time involved with homeschooling, you are naturally going to have a much higher percentage of students that have parents that are actively involved in their child's education in those situations. I really think that the primary issue in public education is that not enough of the parents of the students involved really care about their children's education, especially in poor areas. On top of that, you have private schools that get to select the students that they will allow in the school. So they are much less likely to deal with kids that will have a tougher time learning.

This is not to say that public schools don't have problems. They do, of course. But I think the concept of homeschooling or private schooling (via vouchers or something) as some sort of panacea to education issues is silly. The issues involved go beyond public vs. private vs. homeschooling.

*I personally went to a private high school because the public high school was in the next town over, and that town didn't care as much about education as my town did. The cost alone ensured I did well at the school. My parents were not going to pay thousands of dollars a year for me to get bad grades.

 

[WarEagle]

I havn't met many homeschooled people, its true... however, the 10 or so I met certainly didn't seem to fit in well with other, more mainstreamed people... I think its great that your kids get out and meet lots of people, and that their friendly and polite (friendl;y and polite were certainly attributes of the homeschoolees I've met... but they still didn't quite "fit") but my question is, even though they are getting decent, polite and formative social interaction... are they getting it with their PEERS... or, like the homeschoolers I have encountered, will they come across to their peers like they just aren't quite on the same page?

Hey, I'm not going to lie to you. My kids do suffer from that terrible handicap of not knowing who the latest teen idol is (oy gevalt! What have we done!) and my daughter does dress modestly (and has sewn many of her clothes herself).

Yes, it's true that they don't cuss and they treat us with respect. It's also true that they don't listen to the same kind of music their government school counterparts listen to.

They don't watch TV (although, my son and I will watch Yankee Workshop or Bar-B-Que U together every now and then). My daughter would rather read a book or work on the folk music club that we're starting, when not with her friends. And it's true that my son would rather be sailing or working in the shop, when not with his friends.

Sometimes (and this is the most shameful thing of all!) my daughter will get her autoharp or her fiddle and my son will get his guitar or mandolin and they'll sit on the front porch and pick with their old man. Imagine, teenagers who actually want to spend time as a family!

Are my kids different? Sure. But we're raising them to believe that individuality is a good thing.

Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe we should be raising them to be just like every government schooled child. Same musical tastes, same clothes, same slang...

I don't know what the fianl stats are or anything, maybe you can help me... how do homeschooled people go in the university and job markets? is there any sort of causal link or statistical corelation between homeschooling and university/job achievment or satisfation? Either positive or negative, I'd be interested to hear about it

There are a million resources on the internet.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Hey, I'm not going to lie to you. My kids do suffer from that terrible handicap of not knowing who the latest teen idol is (oy gevalt! What have we done!) and my daughter does dress modestly (and has sewn many of her clothes herself).

Yes, it's true that they don't cuss and they treat us with respect. It's also true that they don't listen to the same kind of music their government school counterparts listen to.

They don't watch TV (although, my son and I will watch Yankee Workshop or Bar-B-Que U together every now and then). My daughter would rather read a book or work on the folk music club that we're starting, when not with her friends. And it's true that my son would rather be sailing or working in the shop, when not with his friends.

Sometimes (and this is the most shameful thing of all!) my daughter will get her autoharp or her fiddle and my son will get his guitar or mandolin and they'll sit on the front porch and pick with their old man. Imagine, teenagers who actually want to spend time as a family!

Are my kids different? Sure. But we're raising them to believe that individuality is a good thing.

Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe we should be raising them to be just like every government schooled child. Same musical tastes, same clothes, same slang...



There are a million resources on the internet.

I wasn't asking you to get all indignant and preachy... I have no problem with respectful, modestly dressed people who watch a minimum of TV and enjoy unusual hobbies... I like to think that I may be amongst those ranks...

I never got particulalry excited about teen idols and/sport either at school... however, when I go out into a group in either a social or professional setting, I can engage with people on a level where I feel we share common ground... there are just certain common points of comparison and understanding that make sense between people with a similar upbringing... and I sincerely wonder how most homeschooled people go in that situation.

Mostly because the ones I've met don't do very well.

NOT because they dress modestly, NOT because they don't watch TV, and NOT because they enjoy musical instruments... in fact, its very difficult to define exactly what about them doesn't gel, but, to have a stab, they just arent as aware, or are unpracticed in, the underlying social norms and conventions that are inherent to people more mainstreamed. Read "The Charm School" perhaps to see what I mean.

Now, if your kids are never going to have to deal with the wider population, well its not a problem I guess... but I just wonder if they are loosing oportunities along the way.

Really, I'm neither for nor against homeschooling, merely curious.

There are a million resources on the internet.

I'm sure there are. Any that are neutral and empirical? Perhaps you could tell me what resources led you to decide to homeschool your kids?

 

[ShieldOFaith]

Townhall
by Dinesh D'Souza

It seems atheists have developed a comprehensive strategy to win the minds of the next generation. The strategy can be described simply: let the religious people breed them, and we will educate them to despise their parents’ beliefs . . .

Of course, parents—especially Christian parents—might want to say something about all this. That’s why the atheist educators are now raising the question of whether parents should have control over what their children learn. Dawkins asks, “How much do we regard children as being the property of their parents? It’s one thing to say people should be free to believe whatever they like, but should they be free to impose their beliefs on their children? Is there something to be said for society stepping in? . . . "

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/..._project&ns=DineshDSouza&dt=10/22/2007&page=2

More sickening vile hatred of God. We will see more and more of this as time passes.

A note to all who hate God: THERE IS COMING A TIME WHEN THE ALMIGHTY SOVEREIGN GOD WILL JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD. ON THAT DAY YOU WILL RUE THE DAY YOU WERE EVER BORN!!!!!!!

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and their ways are vile; there is no one who does good. 2 God looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. 3 Everyone has turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. 4 Will the evildoers never learn-- those who devour my people as men eat bread and who do not call on God? 5 There they were, overwhelmed with dread, where there was nothing to dread. God scattered the bones of those who attacked you; you put them to shame, for God despised them. 6 Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion! When God restores the fortunes of his people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad! --Psalm 53

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. --Rev 20

Think on it.
[/FONT]

 

[Eudaimonist]

More sickening vile hatred of God. We will see more and more of this as time passes.

A note to all who hate God: THERE IS COMING A TIME WHEN THE ALMIGHTY SOVEREIGN GOD WILL JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD. ON THAT DAY YOU WILL RUE THE DAY YOU WERE EVER BORN!!!!!!!

I don't hate God since I don't believe God exists, so I guess none of that applies to me.
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][/FONT]

eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[WarEagle]

I wasn't asking you to get all indignant and preachy... I have no problem with respectful, modestly dressed people who watch a minimum of TV and enjoy unusual hobbies... I like to think that I may be amongst those ranks...

I never got particulalry excited about teen idols and/sport either at school... however, when I go out into a group in either a social or professional setting, I can engage with people on a level where I feel we share common ground... there are just certain common points of comparison and understanding that make sense between people with a similar upbringing... and I sincerely wonder how most homeschooled people go in that situation.

Mostly because the ones I've met don't do very well.

They seem to get along with their friends just fine.

Now, if your kids are never going to have to deal with the wider population, well its not a problem I guess

And what "wider population" do you think they're going to have to deal with that they don't deal with now?

but I just wonder if they are loosing oportunities along the way.

What opportunity do they not have now?

Really, I'm neither for nor against homeschooling, merely curious. I'm sure there are. Any that are neutral and empirical? Perhaps you could tell me what resources led you to decide to homeschool your kids?

It was a decision we made largely on our own. Part of it was because of the terrible shape our government schools are in. Part was that we live so far out in the country that we didn't see the point in wasting hours of their day sitting on a bus.




I was a teacher at the college level up until last year (although I do still go and lecture, on occasion) and my wife has a degree in elementary education. In addition, my mother and her husband have a house on our property and we decided to recruit them. She has degrees in secondary education and English Lit, and her husband was a respected engineer for Boeing Aircraft and RCA for fifty years.

We just look around and decided that we could do it better. Turns out, we were right.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

I don't hate God since I don't believe God exists, so I guess none of that applies to me.
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][/FONT]

eudaimonia,

Mark

You have guessed wrong. It doesn't matter weather you believe that God exists. He does and you will still be judged.

When Jesus Christ walked this earth and blessed all those people with teaching, healing, and food; there were thousands and thousands of people who were there and saw, heard, and were touched by Him. The evidence is overwhelming.

God did not do this in a corner where no one could see Him. He did it in front of the world. He showed Himself to the children of Israel and to the gentiles around that area. They saw and heard Him very clearly. That cross bore witness of His sacrifice and love. The empty tomb bore witness of His power and ability to keep a promise.

You are completely without excuses. Messiah YeShua has rose up from the dead, and now is coming back to this earth to reign for a thousand years.

Your self proclaimed disbelief will not stop this. Just like it did not stop Israel from becoming a nation in 1948.

HE is coming back. Tick, tick, tick...

 

[Renton405]

I feel sorry for any child who was homeschooled when they have to actually enter the real world after graduation.

what a broad statement. My wife was homeschooled and she is fine. I know many other people who were homeschooled and they have done better than people in public schools. At least they don't have thousands of abortions and out of wedlock kids like what happens to lotsa kids in public schools.

 

[levi501]

More sickening vile hatred of God. We will see more and more of this as time passes.

A note to all who hate God: THERE IS COMING A TIME WHEN THE ALMIGHTY SOVEREIGN GOD WILL JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD. ON THAT DAY YOU WILL RUE THE DAY YOU WERE EVER BORN!!!!!!!

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and their ways are vile; there is no one who does good. 2 God looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. 3 Everyone has turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. 4 Will the evildoers never learn-- those who devour my people as men eat bread and who do not call on God? 5 There they were, overwhelmed with dread, where there was nothing to dread. God scattered the bones of those who attacked you; you put them to shame, for God despised them. 6 Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion! When God restores the fortunes of his people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad! --Psalm 53[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. --Rev 20[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Heathen atheist, take note!!![/FONT]

funniest thing I've read all day... thanks for the laugh.

 

[Skavau]

A note to all who hate God: THERE IS COMING A TIME WHEN THE ALMIGHTY SOVEREIGN GOD WILL JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD. ON THAT DAY YOU WILL RUE THE DAY YOU WERE EVER BORN!!!!!!!

You depict the coming of God as the coming of Sauron to Mordor.

Heathen atheist, take note!!!

Since I don't believe in the Bible, how does that concern me?

You have guessed wrong. It doesn't matter weather you believe that God exists. He does and you will still be judged.

Belief is not an indication of truth. This much is true. Your point though can equally be reversed.

When Jesus Christ walked this earth and blessed all those people with teaching, healing, and food; there were thousands and thousands of people who were there and saw, heard, and were touched by Him. The evidence is overwhelming.

God did not do this in a corner where no one could see Him. He did it in front of the world. He showed Himself to the children of Israel and to the gentiles around that area. They saw and heard Him very clearly. That cross bore witness of His sacrifice and love. The empty tomb bore witness of His power and ability to keep a promise.

You are completely without excuses. Messiah YeShua has rose up from the dead, and now is coming back to this earth to reign for a thousand years.

This is what disgusts me. It is as if it is a moral virtue to believe. Why should someone have to believe? I am an Atheist. I contest all of the above and I see no moral depravity in doing so.

I have ethical standpoints and I see them infinitely more important than believing or disbelieving in a specific metaphysical concept. Why should it matter to an omnipotent and benevolent God whether I believe in him or not? Why is it morally important.

Your self proclaimed disbelief will not stop this. Just like it did not stop Israel from becoming a nation in 1948.

HE is coming back. Tick, tick, tick...

Grow up. Intolerance from people like you still gives many tolerant and thoughtful Christians out there a bad name.

I could say the same to you about Islam and you would be just as unconvinced as I am.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

You depict the coming of God as the coming of Sauron to Mordor.


Since I don't believe in the Bible, how does that concern me?


Belief is not an indication of truth. This much is true. Your point though can equally be reversed.


This is what disgusts me. It is as if it is a moral virtue to believe. Why should someone have to believe? I am an Atheist. I contest all of the above and I see no moral depravity in doing so.

I have ethical standpoints and I see them infinitely more important than believing or disbelieving in a specific metaphysical concept. Why should it matter to an omnipotent and benevolent God whether I believe in him or not? Why is it morally important.


Grow up. Intolerance from people like you still gives many tolerant and thoughtful Christians out there a bad name.

I could say the same to you about Islam and you would be just as unconvinced as I am.

Skav, this might help with your 4th question:

[SIZE=+2]T

Total Depravity (Total Inability)

Total Depravity is probably the most misunderstood tenet of Calvinism. When Calvinists speak of humans as "totally depraved," they are making an extensive, rather than an intensive statement. The effect of the fall upon man is that sin has extended to every part of his personality -- his thinking, his emotions, and his will. Not necessarily that he is intensely sinful, but that sin has extended to his entire being.
The unregenerate (unsaved) man is dead in his sins (Romans 5:12). Without the power of the Holy Spirit, the natural man is blind and deaf to the message of the gospel (Mark 4:11f). This is why Total Depravity has also been called "Total Inability." The man without a knowledge of God will never come to this knowledge without God's making him alive through Christ (Ephesians 2:1-5).
[SIZE=+2]U[/SIZE]

Unconditional Election

Unconditional Election is the doctrine which states that God chose those whom he was pleased to bring to a knowledge of himself, not based upon any merit shown by the object of his grace and not based upon his looking forward to discover who would "accept" the offer of the gospel. God has elected, based solely upon the counsel of his own will, some for glory and others for damnation (Romans 9:15,21). He has done this act before the foundations of the world (Ephesians 1:4-8).
This doctrine does not rule out, however, man's responsibility to believe in the redeeming work of God the Son (John 3:16-18). Scripture presents a tension between God's sovereignty in salvation, and man's responsibility to believe which it does not try to resolve. Both are true -- to deny man's responsibility is to affirm an unbiblical hyper-calvinism; to deny God's sovereignty is to affirm an unbiblical Arminianism.
The elect are saved unto good works (Ephesians 2:10). Thus, though good works will never bridge the gulf between man and God that was formed in the Fall, good works are a result of God's saving grace. This is what Peter means when he admonishes the Christian reader to make his "calling" and "election" sure (2 Peter 1:10). Bearing the fruit of good works is an indication that God has sown seeds of grace in fertile soil.
[SIZE=+2]L[/SIZE]

Limited Atonement (Particular Redemption)

Limited Atonement is a doctrine offered in answer to the question, "for whose sins did Christ atone?" The Bible teaches that Christ died for those whom God gave him to save (John 17:9). Christ died, indeed, for many people, but not all (Matthew 26:28). Specifically, Christ died for the invisible Church -- the sum total of all those who would ever rightly bear the name "Christian" (Ephesians 5:25).
This doctrine often finds many objections, mostly from those who think that Limited Atonement does damage to evangelism. We have already seen that Christ will not lose any that the father has given to him (John 6:37). Christ's death was not a death of potential atonement for all people. Believing that Jesus' death was a potential, symbolic atonement for anyone who might possibly, in the future, accept him trivializes Christ's act of atonement. Christ died to atone for specific sins of specific sinners. Christ died to make holy the church. He did not atone for all men, because obviously all men are not saved. Evangelism is actually lifted up in this doctrine, for the evangelist may tell his congregation that Christ died for sinners, and that he will not lose any of those for whom he died!
[SIZE=+2]I[/SIZE]

Irresistible Grace

The result of God's Irresistible Grace is the certain response by the elect to the inward call of the Holy Spirit, when the outward call is given by the evangelist or minister of the Word of God. Christ, himself, teaches that all whom God has elected will come to a knowledge of him (John 6:37). Men come to Christ in salvation when the Father calls them (John 6:44), and the very Spirit of God leads God's beloved to repentance (Romans 8:14). What a comfort it is to know that the gospel of Christ will penetrate our hard, sinful hearts and wondrously save us through the gracious inward call of the Holy Spirit (I Peter 5:10)!
[SIZE=+2]P[/SIZE]

Perseverance of the Saints

Perseverance of the Saints is a doctrine which states that the saints (those whom God has saved) will remain in God's hand until they are glorified and brought to abide with him in heaven. Romans 8:28-39 makes it clear that when a person truly has been regenerated by God, he will remain in God's stead. The work of sanctification which God has brought about in his elect will continue until it reaches its fulfillment in eternal life (Phil. 1:6). Christ assures the elect that he will not lose them and that they will be glorified at the "last day" (John 6:39). The Calvinist stands upon the Word of God and trusts in Christ's promise that he will perfectly fulfill the will of the Father in saving all the elect.



I hope this clears things up for you.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

because natural disasters never happen to Real Christians(tm)

 

[bunced]

You have guessed wrong. It doesn't matter weather you believe that God exists. He does and you will still be judged.

When Jesus Christ walked this earth and blessed all those people with teaching, healing, and food; there were thousands and thousands of people who were there and saw, heard, and were touched by Him. The evidence is overwhelming.

God did not do this in a corner where no one could see Him. He did it in front of the world. He showed Himself to the children of Israel and to the gentiles around that area. They saw and heard Him very clearly. That cross bore witness of His sacrifice and love. The empty tomb bore witness of His power and ability to keep a promise.

You are completely without excuses. Messiah YeShua has rose up from the dead, and now is coming back to this earth to reign for a thousand years.

Your self proclaimed disbelief will not stop this. Just like it did not stop Israel from becoming a nation in 1948.

HE is coming back. Tick, tick, tick...

You see that's just it - when Jesus walked this Earth he showed compassion and love. He accepted people - he did not condone their sin, but he did meet them where they were at and showed them love. He died on the cross for the sins of many in the ultimate act of reconciliation and mercy

Yet today, broad swathes of the church, including your post, seem to be showing only judgement. Where is the reconciliation and hope that is at the heart of the gospel? The Good News is not that because of Jesus everyone should be behaving! It's so much more than that. It is because of Jesus, God has reached down into our pit and picked us up, and made it possible for us to reach him, despite the mess we make of life. It means it is possible to have a second chance in life, not because of what we do, how well we behave, but through God working through us!

And yet all I seem to hear is judgement and impending punishment. Where is the mercy to those who are struggling with things? Where is the acceptance of them as a person?

Of course there will be a day of vengeance. But it is not our responsibility to make up our minds as to who will be covered by it, because it is God's business, not ours. We should preach Grace not condemnation. That is our Commission - to preach hope to the nations. It is not for us to carry past that where God put a full stop.

Please, let's as a Church get back to what we should be doing, and leave the Judgement to God. Ours is a message of Hope and Grace.