The Atheist Asks #9: For Clarity

[GrimKingGrim]

The reason you dont care, is because you dont realize something.

You dont realize that you are a SPIRITUAL BEING, who is using an "earth suit", to experience the physical realm for about 65- 85 years, if you are lucky.
If you are not lucky, then you'll be posted as a photo in the Obituary page tomorrow.

See, what you think is that you are your body......But you are NOT your body, you are only USING IT, you are LIVING IN IT, and the part of you that is the REAL YOU< is the eternal part, and that part does not die, GB89.
Only your body dies......YOU< do not.
See, the GRAVE is the end of your body, but its not the end of YOU.
So, dont play with it.
Ok?
Come here, spit on Christians, have your laugh, but dont die a Christ Rejector.
Eternity is WAY too long to pay for that one simple bad bad choice.

This is the type of threat and spirit woo woo that makes us mock you. you do realize that right? You're basically calling me a Gundam lol

 

[zippy2006]

That's exactly what he's saying, though. Some people on this website like to attach all kinds of meanings to it. A common one is the idea that we atheists do actually know that God exists (the idea that all humans souls know it because we're created by God in his image) and are just being stubborn like children who don't appreciate their parents. As you demonstrated, this doesn't fit the definition.

The comic explains that our position is based on a lack of evidence and can therefore change. If atheism were just a rebellious attitude, as some believe, it would not change when brought face-to-face with God.

That may be true in general, and I hope it is. My referent was post #4 where Grim actually claimed that someone who believes God does not exist is a "Gnostic Atheist," not a plain-old atheist. That is precisely where the irrationality on the atheist side comes from. (I grant that there is irrationality on this topic with respect to theists as well.)

Thanks for the clarification,
-zip

 

[GrimKingGrim]

That may be true in general, and I hope it is. My referent was post #4 where Grim actually claimed that someone who believes God does not exist is a "Gnostic Atheist," not a plain-old atheist. That is precisely where the irrationality on the atheist side comes from. (I grant that there is irrationality on this topic with respect to theists as well.)

Thanks for the clarification,
-zip

Exactly. Think of it as an atheist version of evangelical in a way.

But it's not like a different type of Atheist. They still identify as atheist. But when asked on their view on Gnosticism, they identify as gnostic. Most atheists are in general agnostics. So we don't have to actually pull out the label "gnostic atheist" and "agnostic atheist" because it's commonly taken that an atheist is agnostic.

 

[zippy2006]

Exactly. Think of it as an atheist version of evangelical in a way.

But it's not like a different type of Atheist. They still identify as atheist. But when asked on their view on Gnosticism...

I am going to make this really simple. Here's what I was referring to (post #4):

Seriously though, can you give me a word to describe a person that believes there is no god?

You call them a Gnostic Atheist.

No, you call them an atheist. See my post (#57) and/or the definition of "atheist."


I don't know what you mean by "Gnostic Atheist" and it doesn't interest me much. "Gnostic" is one of the many words whose meaning has deviated significantly from its etymology, and you are no doubt forcing its use in an etymological way. For those who know what Gnosticism is, the term "Gnostic Atheist" comes off as somewhat humorous, especially since those who make use of it apparently--and ironically--have a fair deal in common with the Gnostics.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

The reason you dont care, is because you dont realize something.

Yes, tell me what I don't realize. Please.

You dont realize that you are a SPIRITUAL BEING, who is using an "earth suit", to experience the physical realm for about 65- 85 years, if you are lucky.

If a spiritual being can exist without its "earth suit," then what does it even need this "earth suit" for? How pointless it would make this existence if I could just live eternally in some "other existence"... after death, of course.

If you are not lucky, then you'll be posted as a photo in the Obituary page tomorrow.

And that is something we all have in common. No matter what you believe, you gotta die to find out if you were right.

See, what you think is that you are your body......But you are NOT your body, you are only USING IT, you are LIVING IN IT, and the part of you that is the REAL YOU< is the eternal part, and that part does not die, GB89.
Only your body dies......YOU< do not.

Actually, I, the real me, am really just my mind. There is a physical body that really does exist and it has a physical brain. That brain gives rise to my consciousness and self awareness that interprets the physical world around me and forms judgments and has thoughts and feelings and desires. But ultimately it's just a brain doing what brains do. The limbs are just there to help. The physical and mental worlds may seem very different from each other but they are entirely dependent on each other. I have no reason to believe in consciousness without a brain. Do you?

See, the GRAVE is the end of your body, but its not the end of YOU.

I seriously doubt it.

So, dont play with it.
Ok?

I'm just going to go with the easy question and ask you, why don't you worry about the threats of other religions?

Come here, spit on Christians, have your laugh, but dont die a Christ Rejector.
Eternity is WAY too long to pay for that one simple bad bad choice.

I don't come here to spit on Christians or provoke anybody. Some people are provoked simply by my very existence. Their minds cannot comprehend how somebody can just, not believe in gods. How someone can just disregard what the bible says, what the Koran says, what the JW's are trying to get you to believe, what the Jews are all about... etc.

I really just don't care about any of that. I really am not concerned with what happens after I die because I won't be around to worry about it.

 

[Davian]

The reason you dont care, is because you dont realize something.

You dont realize that you are a SPIRITUAL BEING, who is using an "earth suit", to experience the physical realm for about 65- 85 years, if you are lucky.
If you are not lucky, then you'll be posted as a photo in the Obituary page tomorrow.

See, what you think is that you are your body......But you are NOT your body, you are only USING IT, you are LIVING IN IT, and the part of you that is the REAL YOU< is the eternal part, and that part does not die, GB89.
Only your body dies......YOU< do not.
See, the GRAVE is the end of your body, but its not the end of YOU.
So, dont play with it.
Ok?
Come here,

I was invited.

spit on Christians,

I have done not such thing.

have your laugh,

Have you said something funny?

but dont die a Christ Rejector.

I do not reject, I just don't find any religions, including yours, convincing.

Eternity is WAY too long to pay for that one simple bad bad choice.

Belief is not a choice. For what would I be held accountable for?

 

[Davian]

Grimm, You chose to become atheist, others chose apathy, why the difference?

The two terms are not incompatible. Not that belief is a choice.

Apatheist - someone who considers the question of the existence of gods as neither meaningful nor relevant to their life.

Apatheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That would describe me, before 40. I would now lean towards ignostic.

 

[Davian]

And hence why I said that I don't believe there is such a thing as a "gnostic atheist". No one can know that God does not exist.

Why not? Define your "God". Is there a "God" that walked and talked in a garden that has no evidence of having existed, poofed people and animals into existence, and later, in a manner contrary to the modern understanding of genetics, populated the planet with a tiny group of individuals and animals that survived a global flood in an unbuildable boat, a flood that killed the dinosaurs in a manner that only *appears* to be 65 million years ago, because the Earth is really only somehow 6000 years old, yet remains, by every object measure to date indistinguishable from nothing? I am comfortable saying that a god like that is only a character in a book.

The only reason that category exists is so that atheists can create the "weak atheist" category, which is essentially the traditional agnostic, and thus claim inflated numbers.

Appeals to popularity would be a fallacious argument for the purposes of exploring reality.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Oh come on you guys actually took the time to respond to him point by point and now it just makes me look like a jerk. It's what I am but I need to keep up appearances

Fine

The reason you dont care, is because you dont realize something.

Do tell.

You dont realize that you are a SPIRITUAL BEING, who is using an "earth suit"

My Gundam reference actually isn't off btw. So... no. Who "I" am is so inconsequential to my body it's ridiculous to think it's special. I am an extension of my body, my body is not an extension of me.

If I was shot in the head at the very part of my brain that contains "me" I'll be corrupted data. Dead essentially. My body will live on. One can exist without the other.

to experience the physical realm for about 65- 85 years, if you are lucky. If you are not lucky, then you'll be posted as a photo in the Obituary page tomorrow.

See, what you think is that you are your body......

But you are NOT your body, you are only USING IT, you are LIVING IN IT, and the part of you that is the REAL YOU< is the eternal part, and that part does not die, GB89.

Seriously guys why do you entertain this?

Only your body dies......YOU< do not.

If my brain dies, I go with it.

See, the GRAVE is the end of your body, but its not the end of YOU.

This seriously lacks an endgame. Do you know what an endgame is? What's the final play here? If God's plan is to lift us up, then what? He can't create souls endlessly and there's no purpose in making us "one with him" or torturing and or pampering us because he gains nothing from either unless he's severely into voyeurism. What is the endgame? How do all the pieces finally fit together?

You see, the endgame in the human life span is basically you've reached the limit of your body's natural sustain threshold and it's time to power down. People mourn your death (or not) and you go back to the Earth from whence you came. You become food for other beings and fertilizer for the soil and in turn help further the cycle of life on this planet.

That's the human endgame. That's the final pieces of the puzzle.

Where's the final pieces in your suggestion?

So, dont play with it.
Ok?

I play alot.

Come here,

I don't think I want to.

spit on Christians, have your laugh,

When you suggest that I'm a real life Gundam pilot what on Earth do you expect me to do? I don't spit on you, but I have a good laugh, I do.

but dont die a Christ Rejector.

Rejection? I mean when's he gonna stop hiding?

Eternity is WAY too long to pay for that one simple bad bad choice.

Is there no appeal court?

 

[Joshua260]

That's my point. That's why I said the position is erroneous. And you can be both of those things. But for someone to say they KNOW that gods can or can not exist and take up the negative stance in effect are still atheist, but at the same time aren't because it's no longer a belief or lack of in gods, it's a solid claim of knowledge that they do not exist. Like the claim of gravity existing. Nobody has a belief gravity exists, they just KNOW gravity exists.

It's very gray and hard to define. I'm not sure how one can honestly hold that position. But some people do. I'd advise against it, but people will be who they are

There's no gray area. You may be not sure how one can honestly hold to be a "gnostic atheist", but I have no problem with being sure about that. One cannot prove a negative...well to be accurate, that's not always true, but in this case it is. It is impossible for one to know that God does not exist. Therefore, no matter what they may call themselves, there's no such thing as a "gnostic atheist" (meaning that they know God does not exist).

Agnostic is not a claim to theism. And someone who only identifies themselves as agnostic is technically undecided and thus does not hold the belief. Therefore ---> Atheist by default.

No. You doing the thing that tillIcollapse was talking about...you're claiming an agnostic to be an atheist. Using the traditional definition, an actual agnostic might not appreciate you putting them into a category which they do not agree with.

 

[Joshua260]

Why not?

Because as one of your kind responded to me, one cannot prove a negative. Were you not paying attention?

Appeals to popularity would be a fallacious argument for the purposes of exploring reality.

I agree, and that's why I don't think atheists should reclassify agnostics as atheists in order to artificially inflate their numbers. I am constantly told how much the atheist movement is growing and so forth. 1. it's a fallacious argument, and 2. it's not accurate. The ratio of atheists has remained the same since the 1940s.

 

[seashale76]

Blind post: I've often seen atheists that confuse their reasons for being an atheist with what atheism actually is, so it should be no surprise when you see theists that also confuse this issue. Atheism is a lack of belief in deities (that's it). The reasons one may have for being an atheist can vary. However, I have seen more than my fair share of atheists that love to add to the definition.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I agree, and that's why I don't think atheists should reclassify agnostics as atheists in order to artificially inflate their numbers. I am constantly told how much the atheist movement is growing and so forth. 1. it's a fallacious argument, and 2. it's not accurate. The ratio of atheists has remained the same since the 1940s.

I like to the think there has always been the same number of atheists. We just haven't been allowed to come out until much recently. I can almost guarantee that there are many, many more of us than you think but not all of them are as lucky as I've been to live in a relatively desecular and pluralist society.

 

[Cearbhall]

See, what you think is that you are your body......But you are NOT your body, you are only USING IT, you are LIVING IN IT, and the part of you that is the REAL YOU< is the eternal part, and that part does not die, GB89.
Only your body dies......YOU< do not.
See, the GRAVE is the end of your body, but its not the end of YOU.
So, dont play with it.

Thank you for telling us about your religious beliefs. They're very fascinating. I enjoy reading the ways that people explain their beliefs.

 

[DeepWater]

Thank you for telling us about your religious beliefs. They're very fascinating. I enjoy reading the ways that people explain their beliefs.

I have no religious beliefs.
I simply told you what is ahead.
If you want religion or religious beliefs then see "the buddha" or "scientology".

 

[Cearbhall]

I have no religious beliefs.
I simply told you what is ahead.
If you want religion or religious beliefs then see "the buddha" or "scientology".

That in itself is a fascinating religious belief. The idea that "religious belief" is a limited term and that one's beliefs actually transcend that category.

(Not to be patronizing. You're welcome to describe your beliefs in whatever terms that you want, but I will continue to view them as being on par with all other religious beliefs.)

 

[bhsmte]

I have no religious beliefs.
I simply told you what is ahead.
If you want religion or religious beliefs then see "the buddha" or "scientology".

How do you know what is ahead?

 

[DeepWater]

That in itself is a fascinating religious belief. The idea that "religious belief" is a limited term and that one's beliefs actually transcend that category.

(Not to be patronizing. You're welcome to describe your beliefs however you want, but I will continue to view them as being on par with all other religious beliefs.)

No, its not a "religious belief" to state that the Buddha's teachings as well as scientology are defined as "religions" or "religious" philosophy.
It is in fact, what they are......they are both, "religions" and their victims are "religious".
Im neither a victim, nor am i religious.
So, for you to be patronizing, you 1st have to be accurate.
Start there, press "send".
Therefore, in this case you are just being typical of your type.

 

[Cearbhall]

Im neither a victim, nor am i religious.

So you aren't Christian, then? Or at least, you don't identify with a specific church or denomination?

I apologize, it seems we can't see each other's identifying icons in this new format.

 

[DeepWater]

How do you know what is ahead?

First, there always is an "ahead", as we live in the process of time, the boundary of time, and this is always moments leading forward.
And the reason i know what is ahead is because the One who created the very time we exist within, who Himself does not reside inside, has revealed it, clearly.

Just like this....

You've noticed that "gay" has become standardized in the USA (culture).
At the same time Russia just gave an " Iron dome" to Iran, similar to the advanced weaponry that Israel uses to protect itself against border rockets.
Iran is being given this >at the same time< the Obama administration has developed and is completing a treaty with Iran that will basically allow Iran full throttle to
build Nukes as fast as they can spit them out of the Enriched Uranium.
So, what you see here.....are 3 separate situations, all in sync, and all painting your future.
You see,... Gay in the USA, Nukes via Obama in Iran, and Russia giving an Iron Dome to Iran to protect the Nukes.
These are not happening by random coincidence.
And...You have not understood these 3 separate but completely connected revelations because you have not been shown "forward" by someone who knows.

Now, let me show you "forward".
let me show you the very near future, so that when it slams into your Cable TV channel as a "this is not a test of the emergency broadcast system, this is a REALITY CHECK"..... you will think back to this day and this moment and have an epiphany.

There was once a man named Noah...
And he was not Russell Crowe.
He built a huge wooden ship on dry ground because it had never rained even once.
He was told by the One who controls "forward" to prepare for a really big rain.
The rain came, and it cleansed a certain plague of immorality that had taken over the lifestyles of all people on earth, including the children.
Only Noah's family had not succumbed to the wave of perversity that had saturated the entire human population so that "their minds were on evil continually", as its
explained in the Book of the One who control's Forward.
Later, in the same book, the Controller has stated that in the "end times"...."so as in the days of Noah", so shall it be in the earth AGAIN, just before the big show begins.
If you look at your Country, you will be surprised to find that it was the last actual "outreach" of the Christian "realm" into the world, that had not been overcome by a certain type of perversity, regarding immoral sexual and lifestyle behavior.
It was in fact the last line of defense against it.
Now, it has reversed and become inside out, and is now become the largest legislature for a certain type of sexual perversity.

The Controller also stated that at the time you see this perversity happening, look to Israel and see what is happening there.....and if you see them (Jews) returned to their promised land as a Nation, and you see their nation surrounded on all sides by enemies that are wanting to try to destroy it.....then KNOW that the end is upon you.

Now, connected the Nukes in Iran, with Obama's plan to arm them, while Russia has now given them IRON DOME protection against the ONE country who can take out their Nukes, and happens to be the one country that the Controller told you would be on the verge of destruction, just before the End Game appears.

Do you see?
Can you hear?

Now you have been told what "forward" is going to be next.
And we are not talking decades or even half decades.
We are talking, "next".