The Assyrian

[Biblewriter]

Zeke 37 has asked to discuss the Assyrian - in a Christian way.

I don't know exactly what he meant by the last part of the request, for I am not aware of ever having posted anything about this in any other way, but I have started this thread in response to the request.

The Assyrian can be found in numerous Old Testament prophecies, but has been completely missed by every well known teacher in the last hundred years. Some older commentators took notice of him, but as Dwight Pentecost left him out of his scenario, and almost all modern commentators more or less follow Dwight Pentecost, he is now "out of style." But plain scripture is never out of date, even if it is out of style. And the Biblical prophecies about "the Assyrian" are some of the most explicitly stated in all of scripture.

We can begin this discussion with Micah 5. Here we find one of the best known of all the prophecies in the entire Bible. We read in verse 2, "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." This prophecy is so well known because it has become part of the so-called Christmas Story. In Matthew 2:6 the scribes quoted it to king Herod when he asked where Christ was to be born.

But how is it that essentially no one is even aware of just the third and fourth verses after this one? "And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders." (Micah 5:5-6)

Here we have a very simple statement. There is nothing hard to understand about it. There is no deep (or even shallow) symbolism employed. No interpretation is required. In fact, the only way to make any difficulty about it is to question the translation. Some indeed do this, to avoid its significance, but I have investigated their claims and am satisfied the translation is correct as it stands.

But what does it say? (Ignoring for now the first clause, which some translators make part of the preceding statement.) "When the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces." Many simply assume this is speaking of Sennacherib, the ancient Assyrian king who invaded the land shortly after this prophecy was uttered. But there are three reasons it cannot be speaking of that invasion.

The first reason is the words just following those we just noticed. "then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principle men." When Sennacherib attacked Hezekiah, there was no strength to resist him, much less "seven shepherds, and eight principle men." indeed, Hezekiah's message to Isaiah the prophet was "This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and blasphemy: for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth." (2 Kings 19:3) So "seven shepherds, and eight principle men" were totally out of the question.

The second reason is what these "seven shepherds, and eight principle men" would do. "And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof." This, most certainly, has never happened. No Israeli army has ever invaded Assyria, the land of Nimrod. It did not happen at the time of Sennacherib. It had never happened before that time. And it has never happened since that time. This prophecy has unquestionably not been fulfilled: Ever. But if it is true, it will be fulfilled in a future day.

The third reason is the last words of this prophecy. "Thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders." When Sennacherib invaded Judea, the Lord delivered Hezekiah. But he did not do it in this way. Instead, "it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses. So Sennacherib king of Assyria departed, and went and returned, and dwelt at Nineveh." (2 Kings 19:35-36)

This prophecy is too plain to misunderstand. and it unquestionably has not been fulfilled. So what do the few modern commentators who comment at all on it say? They change the words "when" in this passage to "if." They claim it is a boast that the power of Messiah would be so great that this would be what they would do if such an invasion should ever take place. But this is simply clutching at straws as they drown. The Hebrew word rendered "when" in this sentence means exactly that, "when." It is true that in certain contexts this Hebrew word can legitimately be translated as "if." But if that were its meaning in this passage, this would be the only such prophecy in all of scripture. Nowhere else do we find such a boast of the might their armies would have at that time.

But when we simply accept these words at face value, we find that this is only one of a number of similar prophecies. Many other prophecies speak of the power their armies will have at that time. But more to the point, many other prophecies very specifically speak of this future invader, "the Assyrian." They speak in terms just as explicit as this prophecy. And they also have unquestionably not been fulfilled.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

So, who is this Assyrian supposed to represent that it would be in Eschatology? I know that a few people believe that the Antichrist is an Assyrian. Is this where this is headed?

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Biblewriter,
I'm glad you brought it up again...it's been on my mind lately as well.

Could the Assyrian be Gog? Both names would be symbolic of an invader/adversary.

Prophetically speaking...we're coming down to the wire....so perhaps it's another way of describing one event...namely, for example, Gog-Magog of Ezekiel or the Northern Army of Joel 2....both are the same event described in different but similar terms.

This destruction of the invading Northern Army is one event that kicks off the final seven years because it is AFTER the destruction of the invading army that God pours out His Spirit on Israel for their final week of sevens mentioned in Daniel which have to be completed by the time Christ returns physically.

The Assyrian would then have to be gog who brings his army from the North.

Furthermore, IF the Assyrian who brings an army from the North IS descriptive of Gog, then it isn't Russia as everyone assumes/guesses. It would most likely be Ahmadinijad or his "mahdi"that they expecting to come out of a well in Northern Iraq, wouldn't it? Isn't that the general vicinity of Assyria in days past?

http://www.aina.org/maps/historic/650bc.htm

After all, it is the muslims who are standing in the way of the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem. Something's got to give in that regard to allow for the rebuilding of the temple and the anti-christ to step in.

There are many, many scriptures that talk about Israel's enemies in the last days who are threatening to "wipe them off the map" which fulfulls Psalm 83. It would make sense, Biblically, for Gog/Assyrian to be the leader of a muslim army from the North...and perhaps even someone who claims to be the Mahdi???

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Biblewriter,

I've started a new thread about the possibility of Syria being Gog/the Assyrian/Northern Army.

Didn't you have maps showing Sennacheribs path into Israel as opposed to the Assyrian's path when "he" invades?

 

[zeke37]

....

 

[zeke37]

Zeke 37 has asked to discuss the Assyrian - in a Christian way.

I don't know exactly what he meant by the last part of the request, for I am not aware of ever having posted anything about this in any other way, but I have started this thread in response to the request.

the "Christian way" was not merely directed at you, or even generally...there are others that need to follow that advice. Your posts are respectful...

The Assyrian can be found in numerous Old Testament prophecies, but has been completely missed by every well known teacher in the last hundred years.

not all...Bullinger for one

Some older commentators took notice of him, but as Dwight Pentecost left him out of his scenario, and almost all modern commentators more or less follow Dwight Pentecost, he is now "out of style." But plain scripture is never out of date, even if it is out of style. And the Biblical prophecies about "the Assyrian" are some of the most explicitly stated in all of scripture.

We can begin this discussion with Micah 5. Here we find one of the best known of all the prophecies in the entire Bible. We read in verse 2, "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." This prophecy is so well known because it has become part of the so-called Christmas Story. In Matthew 2:6 the scribes quoted it to king Herod when he asked where Christ was to be born.

But how is it that essentially no one is even aware of just the third and fourth verses after this one? "And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders." (Micah 5:5-6)

Here we have a very simple statement. There is nothing hard to understand about it. There is no deep (or even shallow) symbolism employed. No interpretation is required. In fact, the only way to make any difficulty about it is to question the translation. Some indeed do this, to avoid its significance, but I have investigated their claims and am satisfied the translation is correct as it stands.

this part interests me...
and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.

But what does it say? (Ignoring for now the first clause, which some translators make part of the preceding statement.) "When the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces." Many simply assume this is speaking of Sennacherib, the ancient Assyrian king who invaded the land shortly after this prophecy was uttered. But there are three reasons it cannot be speaking of that invasion.

The first reason is the words just following those we just noticed. "then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principle men." When Sennacherib attacked Hezekiah, there was no strength to resist him, much less "seven shepherds, and eight principle men." indeed, Hezekiah's message to Isaiah the prophet was "This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and blasphemy: for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth." (2 Kings 19:3) So "seven shepherds, and eight principle men" were totally out of the question.

The second reason is what these "seven shepherds, and eight principle men" would do. "And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword,

what is the sword that comes out of Christ's mouth?

and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof." This, most certainly, has never happened. No Israeli army has ever invaded Assyria, the land of Nimrod. It did not happen at the time of Sennacherib. It had never happened before that time. And it has never happened since that time. This prophecy has unquestionably not been fulfilled: Ever. But if it is true, it will be fulfilled in a future day.

if ?

The third reason is the last words of this prophecy. "Thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders." When Sennacherib invaded Judea, the Lord delivered Hezekiah. But he did not do it in this way. Instead, "it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses. So Sennacherib king of Assyria departed, and went and returned, and dwelt at Nineveh." (2 Kings 19:35-36)

This prophecy is too plain to misunderstand. and it unquestionably has not been fulfilled. So what do the few modern commentators who comment at all on it say? They change the words "when" in this passage to "if." They claim it is a boast that the power of Messiah would be so great that this would be what they would do if such an invasion should ever take place. But this is simply clutching at straws as they drown. The Hebrew word rendered "when" in this sentence means exactly that, "when." It is true that in certain contexts this Hebrew word can legitimately be translated as "if." But if that were its meaning in this passage, this would be the only such prophecy in all of scripture. Nowhere else do we find such a boast of the might their armies would have at that time.

But when we simply accept these words at face value, we find that this is only one of a number of similar prophecies. Many other prophecies speak of the power their armies will have at that time. But more to the point, many other prophecies very specifically speak of this future invader, "the Assyrian." They speak in terms just as explicit as this prophecy. And they also have unquestionably not been fulfilled.

IMO, the 7 and 8 are important...and leads us to the elect witnesses(7000) + Christ as the 8th....



God's believing children went into captivity under the Assyrian as a type for us...we shall be again in captivity, as God's believing people will be fooled by Satan ...or blinded by God....

Satan will personally play the role of the Assyrian....during the hour of temptation...

in His service
c

 

[HisdaughterJen]

IMO, the 7 and 8 are important...and leads us to the elect witnesses(7000) + Christ as the 8th....



God's believing children went into captivity under the Assyrian as a type for us...we shall be again in captivity, as God's believing people will be fooled by Satan ...or blinded by God....

Satan will personally play the role of the Assyrian....during the hour of temptation...

in His service
c

I agree that the Assyrian will be led by the devil but I don't think it's the "man of sin"/"anti-christ". Biblically, I am beginning to see the Assyrian refers to GOG, the "leader" of the Northern army (Islamic) that invades Israel BEFORE the anti-christ even takes the stage, so to speak.

(Check out the other thread about Syria and Gog.)


This is backed up by Ezek 38/39, Psalm 83, Isaiah 10, Ezek 28...and others, I'm sure. I'm blown away by this!

I mean, if you compare the description of where the hordes are buried in Ezek 39 to where they are coming from in Isaiah 10, it's amazing...it's the SAME area!

I wish Biblewriter would pop on here...he's been studying it and I'm sure he might have some valuable input.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

EPIPHANY!

Mic 5:5 ...
When the Assyrian invades our land
and marches through our fortresses,
we will raise against him seven shepherds,
even eight leaders of men.


Mic 5:6 They will rule the land of Assyria with the sword,
the land of Nimrod with drawn sword.

He will deliver us from the Assyrian
when he invades our land
and marches into our borders.





Scenario:

The Assyrian/Gog/Northern Army consisting of Israel's neighbors (Islamic) is destroyed by God at the time of the 6th seal (earthquake/sun/moon/stars falling). (Ezek 38 & Joel 2 confirm the timing)

Israel buries the horde in the valley between the mountains and the Dead Sea East of Jerusalem for seven months because the horde is so large. (It might even happen on a Feast Day because this day will be memorable for them...things happen to Israel on the same day throughout history quite often, you know.

The seven shepherd (Leaders) & the eighth (anti-christ or "worthless shepherd") is the beast system and it will "occupy" the lands of the nations that invaded Israel as seen in the above passage in Micah 5. (Shepherds are leaders and not kings (see Rev 17 - the 10 guys who are not kings who recieve authority as kings along with the beast and we know the beast uproots three))

Israel realizes it was God who saves them and the Spirit of God is poured out on true Israel and they start to build their temple. (The two witnesses will be on the scene.)

The eighth leader (little horn/anti-christ/worthless shepherd) will stand in the temple and blaspheme God, claim with his false miracles that the fire that came down and destroyed the horde was his doing (instead of a work of God) and be struck with the sword, but live...which brings the false prophet on the scene.

Zec 11:17"Woe to the worthless shepherd, who deserts the flock! May the sword strike his arm and his right eye! May his arm be completely withered, his right eye totally blinded!"


Rev 13:14 Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.



The beast/false prophet go after Christians AND Jews...

Rev 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring–those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.



Those who obey God's commandments = Jews
Those who hold to the testimony of Jesus = Christians

 

[garry2]

zeke 37

the "Christian way" was not merely directed at you, or even generally...there are others that need to follow that advice. Your posts are respectful...

Playing wolf in sheeps clothing again?

Would if one said 9 times in one post that another is a liar, would that one be disrespectful? yes he would but more,and that one is you.

One who disbelieves so much scripture and twists it etc. should be the last to call another a liar z.

 

[Biblewriter]

So, who is this Assyrian supposed to represent that it would be in Eschatology? I know that a few people believe that the Antichrist is an Assyrian. Is this where this is headed?

I am completely satisfied that the Assyrian is not the same individual as the Antichrist. I personally feel that the Biblical term Antichrist, as an individual, refers to the ruler of Judah, which is now called Israel, during Daniel's seventieth week. I see this ruler as "the king" of Daniel 11:36-39, as the foolish and idol shepherd of Zechariah 11:15-17, as the one who comes in his own name in John 5:43, as the false prophet of numerous passages in the Revelation, and as the beast that looks like a lamb but speaks as a dragon in Revelation 13:11-17. I strongly feel that this term is mistakenly used when it is applied to "the Beast." But all that is a subject for a different thread.

As to where this thread is going, If I can possibly manage to keep it on track (which is doubtful) My point is simply that there is a major individual in end time prophecy that has been missed by every well known teacher of the last hundred years. A corollary to that point is that if a system of interpretation completely omits a major character, there is no possibility that it can accurately reflect what the Bible says is coming.

My intention is to go over the many explicit prophecies about this individual, to demonstrate that this is not simply my interpretation, but that the Bible indeed expressly says that he will come. Indeed, I intend to demonstrate that when all the scriptures about him are totaled, we find that the Bible devotes more space to this individual than it does to any other two individuals combined.

The end result of this analysis is an end time scenario that is markedly different from the currently popular one. I ask no one to believe me, but I do ask you to consider the scriptures I present and consider whether or not they do indeed explicitly tells us of events to come.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I am completely satisfied that the Assyrian is not the same individual as the Antichrist. I personally feel that the Biblical term Antichrist, as an individual, refers to the ruler of Judah, which is now called Israel, during Daniel's seventieth week. I see this ruler as "the king" of Daniel 11:36-39, as the foolish and idol shepherd of Zechariah 11:15-17, as the one who comes in his own name in John 5:43, as the false prophet of numerous passages in the Revelation, and as the beast that looks like a lamb but speaks as a dragon in Revelation 13:11-17. I strongly feel that this term is mistakenly used when it is applied to "the Beast." But all that is a subject for a different thread.

As to where this thread is going, If I can possibly manage to keep it on track (which is doubtful) My point is simply that there is a major individual in end time prophecy that has been missed by every well known teacher of the last hundred years. A corollary to that point is that if a system of interpretation completely omits a major character, there is no possibility that it can accurately reflect what the Bible says is coming.

My intention is to go over the many explicit prophecies about this individual, to demonstrate that this is not simply my interpretation, but that the Bible indeed expressly says that he will come. Indeed, I intend to demonstrate that when all the scriptures about him are totaled, we find that the Bible devotes more space to this individual than it does to any other two individuals combined.

The end result of this analysis is an end time scenario that is markedly different from the currently popular one. I ask no one to believe me, but I do ask you to consider the scriptures I present and consider whether or not they do indeed explicitly tells us of events to come.

Biblewriter,

I'm sad that you didn't even read my posts. The Assyrian is the same thing as gog!!!

 

[Biblewriter]

Biblewriter,
I'm glad you brought it up again...it's been on my mind lately as well.

Could the Assyrian be Gog? Both names would be symbolic of an invader/adversary.

I am satisfied that Gog and the Assyrian attack at different times, leading different armies.

Prophetically speaking...we're coming down to the wire....so perhaps it's another way of describing one event...namely, for example, Gog-Magog of Ezekiel or the Northern Army of Joel 2....both are the same event described in different but similar terms.

This destruction of the invading Northern Army is one event that kicks off the final seven years because it is AFTER the destruction of the invading army that God pours out His Spirit on Israel for their final week of sevens mentioned in Daniel which have to be completed by the time Christ returns physically.

The Assyrian would then have to be gog who brings his army from the North.

I believe you are referring to Joel 2:28-30. But that comes immediately after a description of the blessings of the millennium. Verse 28 begins with "And it shall come to pass afterward..." So I conclude that this pouring out comes after the millennium begins.

Furthermore, IF the Assyrian who brings an army from the North IS descriptive of Gog, then it isn't Russia as everyone assumes/guesses. It would most likely be Ahmadinijad or his "mahdi"that they expecting to come out of a well in Northern Iraq, wouldn't it? Isn't that the general vicinity of Assyria in days past?

http://www.aina.org/maps/historic/650bc.htm

After all, it is the muslims who are standing in the way of the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem. Something's got to give in that regard to allow for the rebuilding of the temple and the anti-christ to step in.

There are many, many scriptures that talk about Israel's enemies in the last days who are threatening to "wipe them off the map" which fulfulls Psalm 83. It would make sense, Biblically, for Gog/Assyrian to be the leader of a muslim army from the North...and perhaps even someone who claims to be the Mahdi???

Thank you for the maps, they are very helpful. I also made maps, but unfortunately I don't remember how to post them. When the time comes, I will try to remember how to do it. In the mean time, it would be very helpful if you could post maps of the ancient Selucid empire and of the territory of the ancient Scythians to compare with the Assyrian map you have already posted.

I am not certain where the "mahdi" is supposed to come from, I thought is was somewhere in Iran. I suppose the Assyrian might claim to be him. But the Assyrian cannot be Ahmadinijad, for Iran is ancient Elam, which is in the map you posted, but outside of the ancient Assyrian empire. The Assyrian rises out of Nineveh, which is Mosul in northern Iraq. Passages I intend to treat later strongly suggest the conclusion that he will first conquer Babylon (southern Iraq) and then Elam (Iran), including them in his army when he attacks Israel.

 

[Biblewriter]

IMO, the 7 and 8 are important...and leads us to the elect witnesses(7000) + Christ as the 8th....



God's believing children went into captivity under the Assyrian as a type for us...we shall be again in captivity, as God's believing people will be fooled by Satan ...or blinded by God....

Satan will personally play the role of the Assyrian....during the hour of temptation...

in His service
c

You obviously see these prophecies as representing things different from what they say. Approached in this way, they can be made to mean almost anything. I see them as literal statements of coming events. This does not allow much variation in understanding. But even explicit statements sometimes have to be interpreted. So there is still some variation possible in understanding them, even as literal statements of coming events.

My statement about "if the Bible is true" was simply a reference to the fact that it is absolute truth. Since we begin with this fact, we have to conclude that whatever it says will happen will indeed happen, unless it has already happened since the time the words were given by God.

As far as Bullinger is concerned, I did not say that no one has noticed the Assyrian, I said that no well known teacher in the last hundred years has noticed him.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I am satisfied that Gog and the Assyrian attack at different times, leading different armies.

hmmm....

Thank you for the maps, they are very helpful. I also made maps, but unfortunately I don't remember how to post them. When the time comes, I will try to remember how to do it. In the mean time, it would be very helpful if you could post maps of the ancient Selucid empire and of the territory of the ancient Scythians to compare with the Assyrian map you have already posted.

OK:

I am not certain where the "mahdi" is supposed to come from, I thought is was somewhere in Iran. I suppose the Assyrian might claim to be him. But the Assyrian cannot be Ahmadinijad, for Iran is ancient Elam, which is in the map you posted, but outside of the ancient Assyrian empire. The Assyrian rises out of Nineveh, which is Mosul in northern Iraq. Passages I intend to treat later strongly suggest the conclusion that he will first conquer Babylon (southern Iraq) and then Elam (Iran), including them in his army when he attacks Israel.

Oh, this is so familiar to me...I've read somewhere...something about that Iran wants Northern Iraq because of the Mahdi...I'll have to dig for it...



Oh, but check out the other thread about Syria, Damascus, Gog, Assyrian.

And this too:

Psa 83:1 A song. A psalm of Asaph.
O God, do not keep silent;
be not quiet, O God, be not still.
Psa 83:2 See how your enemies are astir,
how your foes rear their heads.
Psa 83:3 With cunning they conspire against your people;
they plot against those you cherish.
Psa 83:4 “Come,” they say, “let us destroy them as a nation,
that the name of Israel be remembered no more.”

Psa 83:5 With one mind they plot together;
they form an alliance against you—
Psa 83:6 the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
of Moab and the Hagrites,
Psa 83:7 Gebal, Ammon and Amalek,
Philistia, with the people of Tyre.
Psa 83:8 Even Assyria has joined them
to lend strength to the descendants of Lot.




Isn't this happening RIGHT NOW!?

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Is Isaiah 10 describing the future path of the Assyrian? There is a direct connection of Isaiah 10 to Psalm 83 in the phrases about Midian and Oreb as well as the mention of Assyria. On top of that, there is a direct connection of Psalm 83 to Ezek 28:24-26 regarding Israel's neighbors, which in turn, has a direct connection to Ezek 38/39 in the phrase "and then they will know that I am the Lord". This all leads me to believe that the Assyrian is indeed gog. They both invade and are both destroyed by God.

Hope that's not too confusing...

 

[Biblewriter]

hmmm....






OK:

Oh, this is so familiar to me...I've read somewhere...something about that Iran wants Northern Iraq because of the Mahdi...I'll have to dig for it...



Oh, but check out the other thread about Syria, Damascus, Gog, Assyrian.

And this too:

Psa 83:1 A song. A psalm of Asaph.
O God, do not keep silent;
be not quiet, O God, be not still.
Psa 83:2 See how your enemies are astir,
how your foes rear their heads.
Psa 83:3 With cunning they conspire against your people;
they plot against those you cherish.
Psa 83:4 “Come,” they say, “let us destroy them as a nation,
that the name of Israel be remembered no more.”

Psa 83:5 With one mind they plot together;
they form an alliance against you—
Psa 83:6 the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
of Moab and the Hagrites,
Psa 83:7 Gebal, Ammon and Amalek,
Philistia, with the people of Tyre.
Psa 83:8 Even Assyria has joined them
to lend strength to the descendants of Lot.




Isn't this happening RIGHT NOW!?

I would like you to notice that Gog is of "the land of Magog" (Ezekiel 38:2.) Josephus wrote that "Magog is the founder of the Magogites, who are by the Greeks called Scythians." (Antiquities of the Jews, Book 1, chapter 6) When we look at the map of the Scythian regions, we see that the main portion of it was the area that is today known as the Ukraine, the southern portion of Russia. The part of the Scythian region map that extends outside this area actually has a different label on the map. It is labeled as the area of the Indo-scythians. This is the main reason, but not the only one, that most commentators accept Gog as Russia. I plan to comment on the map of the Selucid empire later.

As to your last question, it is most certainly happening now in a general sense, but in the future it will be much more intense.

 

[Biblewriter]

Biblewriter,

I'm sad that you didn't even read my posts. The Assyrian is the same thing as gog!!!

I read your posts, but I am very busy elsewhere nor at the present time, so I do not have as much time as I would like to have to devote to Christian Forums. I intend to answer your contentions about the Assyrian being the same as Gog as soon as I can, but I am not certain when I can do it.

But please remember that my disagreement with you is entirely friendly. I respect you greatly.

 

[Biblewriter]

Is Isaiah 10 describing the future path of the Assyrian? There is a direct connection of Isaiah 10 to Psalm 83 in the phrases about Midian and Oreb as well as the mention of Assyria. On top of that, there is a direct connection of Psalm 83 to Ezek 28:24-26 regarding Israel's neighbors, which in turn, has a direct connection to Ezek 38/39 in the phrase "and then they will know that I am the Lord". This all leads me to believe that the Assyrian is indeed gog. They both invade and are both destroyed by God.

Hope that's not too confusing...

Isaiah 10 indeed gives us the path the Assyrian will follow, and not only the path, but his daily progress as he follows that path. I literally jumped the moment I first realized this. Here is the portion of Isaiah 10 we are discussing:

24Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt. 25For yet a very little while, and the indignation shall cease, and mine anger in their destruction. 26And the LORD of hosts shall stir up a scourge for him according to the slaughter of Midian at the rock of Oreb: and as his rod was upon the sea, so shall he lift it up after the manner of Egypt. 27And it shall come to pass in that day, that his burden shall be taken away from off thy shoulder, and his yoke from off thy neck, and the yoke shall be destroyed because of the anointing. 28He is come to Aiath, he is passed to Migron; at Michmash he hath laid up his carriages: 29They are gone over the passage: they have taken up their lodging at Geba; Ramah is afraid; Gibeah of Saul is fled. 30Lift up thy voice, O daughter of Gallim: cause it to be heard unto Laish, O poor Anathoth. 31Madmenah is removed; the inhabitants of Gebim gather themselves to flee. 32As yet shall he remain at Nob that day: he shall shake his hand against the mount of the daughter of Zion, the hill of Jerusalem.

The first stop is at Micmash in verse 28. Then, in verse 29 they take up lodging in Geba. Finally, in verse 32 they remain at Nob that day.

This passage describes the defeat of ten cities in just three days. This is remarkable speed for an army to advance through hostile territory, even by modern terms.

This is one of the key passages to conclusively prove that the prophetic individual called "the Assyrian" is not Sennacherib, the ancient Assyrian king who invaded Judea shortly after this prophecy was given. For Sennacherib did not follow this path, and his approach was slow and methodical, not swift.

There are few facts of ancient history as well established as Sennacherib's campaign against Hezekiah, king of Judah. Archeologists have found seven different monuments inscribed with detailed descriptions of this campaign. These monuments describe a methodical destruction of city after city, and they name the cities. The cities names are all along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea. The cities named in this prophecy are al;l along the mountainous ridge along the center of Israel, some distance from the sea.

I few years ago I personally spoke to Dr. Ibram Ephal, the director of the Department of Antiquities at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. (At the Oriential Institute in Chicago I was told that he is the world's foremost expert in the archeology of the Holy Land) I told him that from studying the available literature I had come to the conclusion that although there was extensive archeological evidence of the Assyrian presence in the southern part of ancient Judea, absolutely nothing had been found in that portion of ancient Judea that is north of Jerusalem. (The area where all these cities is located.) he answered, with considerable emphasis, "That's exactly right!"

Finally, the Isaiah scroll from the Dead Sea Scrolls Quotes this exact passage, with the comment that it applies to the last days. It would seem obvious that if this had been the path that Sennacherib followed, the writer of this scroll would have known it, for it was written in the nation in question and long before the great loss of knowledge that occurred in the Dark Ages.

As to Midian and Oreb, This passage does not indcate that they take part in the attack. It says that "the LORD of hosts shall stir up a scourge for him according to the slaughter of Midian at the rock of Oreb." That is, that their punishment would be like the one Midian received "at the rock of Oreb."

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Isaiah 10 indeed gives us the path the Assyrian will follow, and not only the path, but his daily progress as he follows that path. I literally jumped the moment I first realized this. Here is the portion of Isaiah 10 we are discussing:



The first stop is at Micmash in verse 28. Then, in verse 29 they take up lodging in Geba. Finally, in verse 32 they remain at Nob that day.

This passage describes the defeat of ten cities in just three days. This is remarkable speed for an army to advance through hostile territory, even by modern terms.

This is one of the key passages to conclusively prove that the prophetic individual called "the Assyrian" is not Sennacherib, the ancient Assyrian king who invaded Judea shortly after this prophecy was given. For Sennacherib did not follow this path, and his approach was slow and methodical, not swift.

There are few facts of ancient history as well established as Sennacherib's campaign against Hezekiah, king of Judah. Archeologists have found seven different monuments inscribed with detailed descriptions of this campaign. These monuments describe a methodical destruction of city after city, and they name the cities. The cities names are all along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea. The cities named in this prophecy are al;l along the mountainous ridge along the center of Israel, some distance from the sea.

I few years ago I personally spoke to Dr. Ibram Ephal, the director of the Department of Antiquities at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. (At the Oriential Institute in Chicago I was told that he is the world's foremost expert in the archeology of the Holy Land) I told him that from studying the available literature I had come to the conclusion that although there was extensive archeological evidence of the Assyrian presence in the southern part of ancient Judea, absolutely nothing had been found in that portion of ancient Judea that is north of Jerusalem. (The area where all these cities is located.) he answered, with considerable emphasis, "That's exactly right!"

Finally, the Isaiah scroll from the Dead Sea Scrolls Quotes this exact passage, with the comment that it applies to the last days. It would seem obvious that if this had been the path that Sennacherib followed, the writer of this scroll would have known it, for it was written in the nation in question and long before the great loss of knowledge that occurred in the Dark Ages.

As to Midian and Oreb, This passage does not indcate that they take part in the attack. It says that "the LORD of hosts shall stir up a scourge for him according to the slaughter of Midian at the rock of Oreb." That is, that their punishment would be like the one Midian received "at the rock of Oreb."

YES, YES, YES!!!! I see what you see and believe you!!!


The connection of Isaiah 10 to Psalm 83 is two things:

1. THe mention of Assyria
2. The reference to the past slaughter of Midian at the rock of Oreb in both passages.


This connection to Assyria in BOTH of the above passages then connects Ezek 28:24-26 AND Ezek 38 & 39!!!!!! Here's what further connects them:

1. Psalm 83's list of nations is their neighbors!
2. Ezek 28's says Israel will no longer have thorns and briers for neighbors!
3. AND in Psalm 83, Ezek 28 AND Ezek 38/39, GOD steps in for the sake of His Holy Name as well as so that Israel will KNOW who their God is who saved them!

All of this leads me to the conclusion that the Assyrian is gog! It's just another way that God described, through different prophets, what is coming in the end! It's remarkable!


I just found a map that shows the Assyrian empire stretching up into the magog, togarmah area but also taking in Damascus.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

And then, add in the passage from Micah about the seven leaders/eight leaders tells me that after God destroys the Assyrian/Gog, the beast system comes in and occupies the area of Israel's neighbors.

THis allows for the rebuilding of the temple and for the anti-christ to rise up and blaspheme God in that temple because his troops will be occupying the area:

Mic 5:5 ...
When the Assyrian invades our land
and marches through our fortresses,
we will raise against him seven shepherds,
even eight leaders of men.
Mic 5:6 They will rule the land of Assyria with the sword,
the land of Nimrod with drawn sword.



The seven leaders/eight leaders are what is predicted in Daniel and Revelation about the beast/10 non-kings & the horns (3 of which are uprooted by the eighth).

It's amazing!