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The Assyrian

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HisdaughterJen

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It's also interesting that the path mentioned in Isaiah 10 of the invading army is pretty much where the hordes of gog end up being buried.

Isa 10:28 They enter Aiath;
they pass through Migron;
they store supplies at Micmash.
Isa 10:29 They go over the pass, and say,
“We will camp overnight at Geba.”
Ramah trembles;
Gibeah of Saul flees.
Isa 10:30 Cry out, O Daughter of Gallim!
Listen, O Laishah!
Poor Anathoth!
Isa 10:31 Madmenah is in flight;
the people of Gebim take cover.
Isa 10:32 This day they will halt at Nob;
they will shake their fist
at the mount of the Daughter of Zion,
at the hill of Jerusalem.




Eze 39:11 ” ‘On that day I will give Gog a burial place in Israel, in the valley of those who travel east toward the Sea. It will block the way of travelers, because Gog and all his hordes will be buried there. So it will be called the Valley of Hamon Gog.




THe burial place will be in the valley between the mountains and the Dead Sea.

Micmash is still on the map and it's in the mountains slightly North and East of Jerusalem. It looks like Micmash/Mukhmas is RAMALLAH!!!! WOW! Biblically, that's where they store their supplies!
WOW!
 
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Biblewriter

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The connection of Isaiah 10 to Psalm 83 is two things:

1. THe mention of Assyria
2. The reference to the past slaughter of Midian at the rock of Oreb in both passages.


This connection to Assyria in BOTH of the above passages then connects Ezek 28:24-26 AND Ezek 38 & 39!!!!!! Here's what further connects them:

1. Psalm 83's list of nations is their neighbors!
2. Ezek 28's says Israel will no longer have thorns and briers for neighbors!
3. AND in Psalm 83, Ezek 28 AND Ezek 38/39, GOD steps in for the sake of His Holy Name as well as so that Israel will KNOW who their God is who saved them!

All of this leads me to the conclusion that the Assyrian is gog! It's just another way that God described, through different prophets, what is coming in the end! It's remarkable!

As I said, I will answer this in your other thread.

I just found a map that shows the Assyrian empire stretching up into the magog, togarmah area but also taking in Damascus.
I believe you mean the area of Meshech and Tubal. Actually, this map does not show them quite up into this area. That area was immediately north of the northernmost extent shown in this map.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I just found a map that shows the Assyrian empire stretching up into the magog, togarmah area but also taking in Damascus.
ZOWIE!!!! That map pic could almost cover a whole wall in my living room. :D
So when they do invade Jerusalem/Judea, where are the Jews going to flee to :confused:

Luke 21:24 And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led Captive into all the nations and Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.

Reve 13:10 If any into captivity, into captivity he is led away. If any in sword to be killed, is binding them in sword to be killed. Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints. [Luke 21:24]

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7255796
 
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zeke37

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So, who is this Assyrian supposed to represent that it would be in Eschatology? I know that a few people believe that the Antichrist is an Assyrian. Is this where this is headed?


I am completely satisfied that the Assyrian is not the same individual as the Antichrist.

I disagree...

I personally feel that the Biblical term Antichrist, as an individual, refers to the ruler of Judah, which is now called Israel, during Daniel's seventieth week.

IMO, it refers to the specific false Messiah in the hour of temptation, who comes instead of the true Messiah...who is not a flesh man but Satan the fallen angelic man, cast from haven to the earth for a short season.

I see this ruler as "the king" of Daniel 11:36-39,

so do I, as well as v20 forward...

as the foolish and idol shepherd of Zechariah 11:15-17,

yep, me tooo!

as the one who comes in his own name in John 5:43,

yep...

as the false prophet of numerous passages in the Revelation,

yep...

and as the beast that looks like a lamb but speaks as a dragon in Revelation 13:11-17.

yep...that is the antiChrist, who is the son of perdition, who is the Devil cast here for a half hour.

I strongly feel that this term is mistakenly used when it is applied to "the Beast." But all that is a subject for a different thread.

beast is a two fold term, meaning both the multiheaded political world giant to come, and the individual entity of Rev13...



As to where this thread is going, If I can possibly manage to keep it on track (which is doubtful) My point is simply that there is a major individual in end time prophecy that has been missed by every well known teacher of the last hundred years.

perhaps you have just split one individual entity into 4 or 5 seperate ones???

A corollary to that point is that if a system of interpretation completely omits a major character, there is no possibility that it can accurately reflect what the Bible says is coming.

My intention is to go over the many explicit prophecies about this individual, to demonstrate that this is not simply my interpretation, but that the Bible indeed expressly says that he will come. Indeed, I intend to demonstrate that when all the scriptures about him are totaled, we find that the Bible devotes more space to this individual than it does to any other two individuals combined.

I agree, and believe that he is Satan, the fallen angel....in what ever role he is playing...and he has many titles and names, hence many folks have a problem identifying him within his types.

IMO, the Assyrian is a role or other name for the soon coming fallen angel Satan who shall fool the world into believing that he is Jesus returned.

that is The antiChrist...

The end result of this analysis is an end time scenario that is markedly different from the currently popular one. I ask no one to believe me, but I do ask you to consider the scriptures I present and consider whether or not they do indeed explicitly tells us of events to come.

we all can ask for nothing more...believe no man, but search the scriptures to see if what is said is true...


in His service
c
 
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Biblewriter

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ZOWIE!!!! That map pic could almost cover a whole wall in my living room. :D
Amen!;)
So when they do invade Jerusalem/Judea, where are the Jews going to flee to :confused:
In Matthew 24 we read:
"15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes."

In Psalm 42, the first psalm of book 2 of the Psalms, we read:
"1 As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.
2 My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?
3 My tears have been my meat day and night, while they continually say unto me, Where is thy God?
4 When I remember these things, I pour out my soul in me: for I had gone with the multitude, I went with them to the house of God, with the voice of joy and praise, with a multitude that kept holyday.
5 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted in me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him for the help of his countenance.
6 O my God, my soul is cast down within me: therefore will I remember thee from the land of Jordan, and of the Hermonites, from the hill Mizar."

I have mentioned repeatedly that I see the Psalms as end time prophecy. The Psalms do not speak specifically of the events as such, but of the feelings of the righteous remnant as they experience them. The first book of the Psalms gives us the righteous remnant suffering in the midst of an ungodly nation during the first half of Daniel's seventieth week. The second book gives us the righteous remnant cast out, which happens at the middle of the week. It happens because God allows the nation to be overrun at that time as a direct punishment for having allowed the man of sin to sit "as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." (2 Thessalonians 2:4)

In this first Psalm of the second book, we first see that the righteous man cannot go to the temple. He remembers going there in the past, but now all he can do is remember God "from the land of Jordan, and of the Hermonites, from the hill Mizar." This is a mountainous area, just as Jesus told them to flee to at that time.

In the second Psalm of this book, Psalm 43, we read:
"3 O send out thy light and thy truth: let them lead me; let them bring me unto thy holy hill, and to thy tabernacles.
4 Then will I go unto the altar of God, unto God my exceeding joy: yea, upon the harp will I praise thee, O God my God.
5 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted within me? hope in God: for I shall yet praise him, who is the health of my countenance, and my God." This shows the hope of again being able to go to the temple, but not until God sends out His "light and truth."

But this area is a desert, so we read later on in Psalm 63 of this same second book, "1 O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is."

But now we need to ask why they are to flee here. We find the reason in Daniel 11, where we read:"40And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon." These three ancient nations occupied the region that later came to be called Jordan, although Edom also ranged down into much of what is now called Saudi Arabia. So we see that the righteous are instructed to flee there because this is the only region that will be spared from the ravages of the invader that comes down at that time.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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So, who is this Assyrian supposed to represent that it would be in Eschatology? I know that a few people believe that the Antichrist is an Assyrian. Is this where this is headed?


I am completely satisfied that the Assyrian is not the same individual as the Antichrist.

I disagree...

I personally feel that the Biblical term Antichrist, as an individual, refers to the ruler of Judah, which is now called Israel, during Daniel's seventieth week.

IMO, it refers to the specific false Messiah in the hour of temptation, who comes instead of the true Messiah...who is not a flesh man but Satan the fallen angelic man, cast from haven to the earth for a short season.

I see this ruler as "the king" of Daniel 11:36-39,

so do I, as well as v20 forward...

as the foolish and idol shepherd of Zechariah 11:15-17,

yep, me tooo!

as the one who comes in his own name in John 5:43,

yep...

as the false prophet of numerous passages in the Revelation,

yep...

and as the beast that looks like a lamb but speaks as a dragon in Revelation 13:11-17.

yep...that is the antiChrist, who is the son of perdition, who is the Devil cast here for a half hour.

I strongly feel that this term is mistakenly used when it is applied to "the Beast." But all that is a subject for a different thread.

beast is a two fold term, meaning both the multiheaded political world giant to come, and the individual entity of Rev13...



As to where this thread is going, If I can possibly manage to keep it on track (which is doubtful) My point is simply that there is a major individual in end time prophecy that has been missed by every well known teacher of the last hundred years.

perhaps you have just split one individual entity into 4 or 5 seperate ones???

A corollary to that point is that if a system of interpretation completely omits a major character, there is no possibility that it can accurately reflect what the Bible says is coming.

My intention is to go over the many explicit prophecies about this individual, to demonstrate that this is not simply my interpretation, but that the Bible indeed expressly says that he will come. Indeed, I intend to demonstrate that when all the scriptures about him are totaled, we find that the Bible devotes more space to this individual than it does to any other two individuals combined.

I agree, and believe that he is Satan, the fallen angel....in what ever role he is playing...and he has many titles and names, hence many folks have a problem identifying him within his types.

IMO, the Assyrian is a role or other name for the soon coming fallen angel Satan who shall fool the world into believing that he is Jesus returned.

that is The antiChrist...

The end result of this analysis is an end time scenario that is markedly different from the currently popular one. I ask no one to believe me, but I do ask you to consider the scriptures I present and consider whether or not they do indeed explicitly tells us of events to come.

we all can ask for nothing more...believe no man, but search the scriptures to see if what is said is true...


in His service
c

I'm still thinking that the Assyrian is gog/magog. Islam has to be removed/out of the picture in order for end-times events to be fulfilled and for the beast-system to be in place. Micah appears to confirm that idea:

Mic 5:5 ...
When the Assyrian invades our land
and marches through our fortresses,
we will raise against him seven shepherds,
even eight leaders of men.
Mic 5:6 They will rule the land of Assyria with the sword,
the land of Nimrod with drawn sword....




After God miraculously destroys the Assyrian invaders, the beast system (which includes the 10 leaders (non-kings), three of which are uprooted by the "little horn"...in other words, 7 leaders with the eighth being the anti-christ) will occupy the territory of those who invaded...and Israel will be ok with that until the eighth leader tries to tell the world that he is God.

Dan 7:19 “Then I wanted to know the true meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws—the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left.
Dan 7:20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell—the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully.


God destroys the invaders with fire from heaven and a few months or years later, the anti-christ/false prophet tries to convince people that he is God, "even causing fire to come down from heaven in full view of men".

THAT is no coincidence.

Ezekiel says that after the invasion, Israel and everyone else WILL KNOW it was God that stepped in and saved them. How inconvenient for the devil. He has to do the same thing that God did in order to convince people that HE is God.

Eze 39:6 I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am the LORD.

Rev 13:13And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.
 
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Biblewriter

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We read the following in Isaiah 14:
"24The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand: 25That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders. 26This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations. 27For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back? 28In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden. 29Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent’s root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent. 30And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant. 31Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times."

Here we read of the destruction of "the Assyrian" in the Lord's land. Then, immediately following that, we read, "Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent’s root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent." Here we read of a second attacker that will be the "fruit" (other translations render this word as "offspring" of the first one. All this passage reveals about the timing of the second attack is that it is separated from the first attack by an unspecified number of generations. That is, it will be a significant time later than the first one. As this second attack has not yrt taken place, we now know that it is many generations later. but a second Assyrian attack is coming. And it will not only be directed at Israel, but also at "thou, whole Palestina." That is, upon the Palestinians.

This leads us to who this latter day Assyrian is. Please consider the following map.

judeahmap.jpg
kingofnorthmap.jpg
This map is located at http://holy-word.org/public_html/kingofnorthmap.jpg , but nothing I do can make it appear in this post. Will someone please tell me what I have to do to post my maps. In the mean time, if anyone can post this map for me, please do so. I am the copyright holder, so it is all right.
kingofnorthmap.jpg
kingofnorthmap.jpg


In this map I have superimposed the Assyrian Empire (as it existed at the time of Isaiah 36 and 37) and the Selucid Empire, the empire of the king of the North of Daniel 11, (as it existed at the time covered by Daniel 11:30-35)

The notable thing about this map is that, aside from a few mostly 8unpopulated areas around the edges, these two ancient empires occupied the same geographical area. One of the unpopulated areas was the south central area controlled by Assyria. this area is mostly desert. Then each empire controlled a small mountainous area not controlled by the other empire. But mountainous areas are less densely populated than smoother areas.So the Selucid Empire covered essentially the same area that the Assyrian Empire had covered a few hundred years earlier.

What is the prophetic significance of this? That "the Assyrian" of Isaiah and Micah represents the same end time character as the king of the North (the Selucid king) of Daniel 11.

When we realize this, everything suddenly falls into place. This will (D.V.) be continued in my next post on this subject. But now I will post this and see if I correctly remembered how to post images here.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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We read the following in Isaiah 14:
"24The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand: 25That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders. 26This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations. 27For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back? 28In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden. 29Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent’s root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent. 30And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant. 31Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times."

Here we read of the destruction of "the Assyrian" in the Lord's land. Then, immediately following that, we read, "Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent’s root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent." Here we read of a second attacker that will be the "fruit" (other translations render this word as "offspring" of the first one. All this passage reveals about the timing of the second attack is that it is separated from the first attack by an unspecified number of generations. That is, it will be a significant time later than the first one. As this second attack has not yrt taken place, we now know that it is many generations later. but a second Assyrian attack is coming. And it will not only be directed at Israel, but also at "thou, whole Palestina." That is, upon the Palestinians.

This leads us to who this latter day Assyrian is. Please consider the following map.

judeahmap.jpg
kingofnorthmap.jpg
This map is located at http://holy-word.org/public_html/kingofnorthmap.jpg , but nothing I do can make it appear in this post. Will someone please tell me what I have to do to post my maps. In the mean time, if anyone can post this map for me, please do so. I am the copyright holder, so it is all right.
kingofnorthmap.jpg
kingofnorthmap.jpg


In this map I have superimposed the Assyrian Empire (as it existed at the time of Isaiah 36 and 37) and the Selucid Empire, the empire of the king of the North of Daniel 11, (as it existed at the time covered by Daniel 11:30-35)

The notable thing about this map is that, aside from a few mostly 8unpopulated areas around the edges, these two ancient empires occupied the same geographical area. One of the unpopulated areas was the south central area controlled by Assyria. this area is mostly desert. Then each empire controlled a small mountainous area not controlled by the other empire. But mountainous areas are less densely populated than smoother areas.So the Selucid Empire covered essentially the same area that the Assyrian Empire had covered a few hundred years earlier.

What is the prophetic significance of this? That "the Assyrian" of Isaiah and Micah represents the same end time character as the king of the North (the Selucid king) of Daniel 11.

When we realize this, everything suddenly falls into place. This will (D.V.) be continued in my next post on this subject. But now I will post this and see if I correctly remembered how to post images here.

Oh...very interesting. I always thought the King of the North of Daniel 11 was the anti-christ guy. I know there have been a lot of abom of desolations but Daniel 11:30-35 describes one that includes a temple fortress. So either this is past or future...but it can't happen now.

(I can't get your link to work...could you double-check it?)
 
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HisdaughterJen

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Just wanted to add this:

Isa 14:25 I will crush the Assyrian in my land;
on my mountains I will trample him down.


Eze 38:21 I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Sovereign LORD.



Eze 39:2 I will turn you around and drag you along. I will bring you from the far north and send you against the mountains of Israel.
Eze 39:3 Then I will strike your bow from your left hand and make your arrows drop from your right hand.
Eze 39:4 On the mountains of Israel you will fall, you and all your troops and the nations with you. I will give you as food to all kinds of carrion birds and to the wild animals.
 
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Biblewriter

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For some reason I still cannot re-post my map I referred to, but it is the third map in the first post in the thread titled Test. I added a new message to that thread to move it back into easy viewing range.
 
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HisdaughterJen

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For some reason I still cannot re-post my map I referred to, but it is the third map in the first post in the thread titled Test. I added a new message to that thread to move it back into easy viewing range.

ok, I'll check it out...

ok...I'm back...and yes, your map is definitely different than the one I posted earlier. I cannot vouch for the one I posted...it was just a google search.

I'll try to grab your map and put it here...
kingofnorthmap.jpg
 
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HisdaughterJen

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I also wanted to discuss this too:

judeahmap.jpg


Isa 10:28 They enter Aiath;
they pass through Migron;
they store supplies at Micmash.
Isa 10:29 They go over the pass, and say,
“We will camp overnight at Geba.”
Ramah trembles;
Gibeah of Saul flees.
Isa 10:30 Cry out, O Daughter of Gallim!
Listen, O Laishah!
Poor Anathoth!
Isa 10:31 Madmenah is in flight;
the people of Gebim take cover.
Isa 10:32 This day they will halt at Nob;
they will shake their fist
at the mount of the Daughter of Zion,
at the hill of Jerusalem.
 
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Biblewriter

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I will get back to this later, D.V., but please tell my how you managed to get these to post here.

Well. as you can see, I finally figured it out.
 
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Biblewriter

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ok, I'll check it out...

ok...I'm back...and yes, your map is definitely different than the one I posted earlier. I cannot vouch for the one I posted...it was just a google search.

I'll try to grab your map and put it here...
kingofnorthmap.jpg

The map of the Selucid Empire that you posted evidently applied to a date considerably later than the period discussed in Daniel 11. Please note the applicable timing specified on my map. My map of the Assyrian Empire is essentially the same as the ones you posted. Please notice that there are three areas occupied by one empire, but not the other, but that one of these areas is a great desert, and the other two are mountainous. Thus we see that all the areas occupied by one empire but not the other are regions of greatly reduced population density. In all the densely populated areas, both empires were identical. This is the main reason I have concluded that the end-time Assyrian of Isaiah, Micah, and Nahum is the same individual as the end time king of the north of Daniel11 and also the end time little horn on the he goat of Daniel 8.
 
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Biblewriter

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I also wanted to discuss this too:

judeahmap.jpg


Isa 10:28 They enter Aiath;
they pass through Migron;
they store supplies at Micmash.
Isa 10:29 They go over the pass, and say,
“We will camp overnight at Geba.”
Ramah trembles;
Gibeah of Saul flees.
Isa 10:30 Cry out, O Daughter of Gallim!
Listen, O Laishah!
Poor Anathoth!
Isa 10:31 Madmenah is in flight;
the people of Gebim take cover.
Isa 10:32 This day they will halt at Nob;
they will shake their fist
at the mount of the Daughter of Zion,
at the hill of Jerusalem.

I have modified the quote of your post by highlighting the stops specifically mentioned in this account in red. You will notice that each of these stops is marked on the map with a red dot, as opposed to black dots for all the other points specifically mentioned in Isaiah 10:28-32.

The words "over the pass" are rendered in other translations as "along the ridge." This is the reason I used contour lines in this map, for between the two cities mentioned on either side of this note there is a horseshoe shaped ridge that is about 200 meters (600 feet) high.

As I noted earlier, Dr. Ibrham E'phal, the head of the department of antiquities at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, confirmed to me in personal conversation that no archeological evidence of an Assyrian presence has been found in this area, even though much has been found in the southern portion of ancient Judea.

The Isaiah scroll in the dead sea scrools quotes exactly this passage with the note, "this applies to the last days." The prophetic intewrpretations in that document are very far fetched, and totally unreliable, so I attach no signifixcance to this as an interpretation of prophecy. But it seems obvious that if this had been the route that Sennacherib followed, the writer of this scroll would have known that and not made such an obvious error as to interpret something that had already happened as a future event.

Modern scholars know about seven different monuments left by Sennacherib in which he boasted of his campaigh against Hezekiah. In each of these monuments Sennecherib listed the cities he had conquered on his way to Judea. All these cities were along the coast of the Mediterranian Sea, far from the path described in this account.

Finally, 2 Kings 18:17, 2 Chronicles 32:9, and Isaiah 36:2 all say Sennacherib’s forces came to Jerusalem from Lachish, which was southwest of Jerusalem, not north of it, as described in this account.

For all these reasons I maintain that there are few facts of ancient history as well established as the fact that the path described in Isaiah 10:28-32 was not followed by Sennacherib. It is so well established that the well known historian A. T. Olmstead mocked how badly Isaiah "blew it" in this prophecy, commenting that this was simply not the path that Sennacherib followed. He made this comment in his monumental 650 page book, "history of Assyria."
 
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Bible2

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Biblewriter posted in message #18:

Isaiah 10 indeed gives us the path the Assyrian will
follow ...

Actually, nothing requires a future fulfillment of
Isaiah 10:5-34, as it could all have been fulfilled
during Sennacherib's invasion in Isaiah chapters 36-37.

Biblewriter posted in message #18:

[Re: Isaiah 10:28-32]

This passage describes the defeat of ten cities in
just three days. This is remarkable speed for an army
to advance through hostile territory, even by modern
terms.

Isaiah 10:28-32 doesn't necessarily describe the
"defeat" of any of the thirteen cities mentioned, in
the sense of Sennacherib having had to have waged any
battle whatsoever against them. The tenor of the
passage with regard to the inhabitants of the cities
is only one of terror and flight; no fighting is
mentioned at all.

Nor is three days mentioned; Sennacherib could have
passed by all thirteen cities in only two days. The
laying up of his carriages in Michmash (Isaiah 10:28)
could have simply been a short rest and chow and water
break for the horses and a lunch break for the men.
Then they could have spent the night in Geba (Isaiah
10:29).

Biblewriter posted in message #18:

[Re: Isaiah 10:28-32]

This is one of the key passages to conclusively prove
that the prophetic individual called "the Assyrian" is
not Sennacherib, the ancient Assyrian king who invaded
Judea shortly after this prophecy was given. For
Sennacherib did not follow this path, and his approach
was slow and methodical, not swift.

There could be more than one prophetic individual
called "the Assyrian". Sennacherib could have
fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah 10:5-34 at his
invasion in Isaiah chapters 36-37, and the Antichrist
could fulfill Micah 5:5-6 at his attack of Jerusalem
right before the second coming (Zechariah 14:2-4), at
which time Jesus could let the surviving Jews fulfill
Micah 5:5b-6a (cf. Zechariah 12:8b-9).

There is no historical proof that Sennacherib could
not have taken the path of Isaiah 10:28-32, or that he
could not have travelled at a rate whereby he passed
by those thirteen cities in two days. For there is no
evidence that any of those cities put up any fight
whatsoever, so there could have been nothing to slow
Sennacherib's progress.

Biblewriter posted in message #18:

There are few facts of ancient history as well
established as Sennacherib's campaign against
Hezekiah, king of Judah. Archeologists have found
seven different monuments inscribed with detailed
descriptions of this campaign. These monuments
describe a methodical destruction of city after city,
and they name the cities. The cities names are all
along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea. The cities
named in this prophecy [Isaiah 10:28-32] are all along
the mountainous ridge along the center of Israel, some
distance from the sea.

If there's a record of Sennacherib destroying cities
along the coast, that could simply be because they
put up a fight, and he wanted a record of his victory
over them in battle, whereas the cities along the
mountain ridge in Isaiah 10:28-32 could have all
cowered and fled, so that there were no battles or
victories to record.

Another possibility is that archaeologists simply
have not yet found any monuments which Sennacherib
might have set up along the mountain ridge recording
his "taking possession of all the cities of the
cowardly Judaeans in these mountains", because the
monuments were later destroyed by the Jews, or because
they still lie buried.

Also, Sennacherib could have refrained from destroying
the cities along the ridge because he wanted to keep
them intact with their supplies, so that he would have
at least one way to travel back up north without having
to worry about running out of food for his army.

Biblewriter posted in message #18:

I few years ago I personally spoke to Dr. Ibram Ephal,
the director of the Department of Antiquities at the
Hebrew University in Jerusalem. (At the Oriential
Institute in Chicago I was told that he is the world's
foremost expert in the archeology of the Holy Land) I
told him that from studying the available literature I
had come to the conclusion that although there was
extensive archeological evidence of the Assyrian
presence in the southern part of ancient Judea,
absolutely nothing had been found in that portion of
ancient Judea that is north of Jerusalem. (The area
where all these cities is located.) he answered, with
considerable emphasis, "That's exactly right!"

That would be exactly right if no battles were fought
on the ridge, no cities were destroyed, and
Sennacherib moved quickly down the ridge.

Biblewriter posted in message #18:

Finally, the Isaiah scroll from the Dead Sea Scrolls
Quotes this exact passage, with the comment that it
applies to the last days. It would seem obvious that
if this had been the path that Sennacherib followed,
the writer of this scroll would have known it, for it
was written in the nation in question and long before
the great loss of knowledge that occurred in the Dark
Ages.

The knowledge of the details of Sennacherib's invasion
down the ridge could very well have been unknown to a
writer of some comment on a Dead Sea Scroll, who could
have written the comment hundreds of years after the
invasion.

There's really no reason why the Jews who survived
Sennacherib's invasion would have wanted to pass on
to their children stories about what had happend on
the ridge, which could have been seen as not such a
glorious time for the Judaeans on the ridge, who could
have all cowered and fled before Sennacherib's
overwhelming force. The Jews who survived
Sennacherib's invasion could have seen it as better
to just forget the whole thing on the ridge and not
pass on any embarrassment to future generations.
 
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Bible2

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Biblewriter posted in message #35:

Modern scholars know about seven different monuments
left by Sennacherib in which he boasted of his
campaigh against Hezekiah. In each of these monuments
Sennecherib listed the cities he had conquered on his
way to Judea. All these cities were along the coast
of the Mediterranian Sea, far from the path described
in this account.

The exact wording of each of these monuments will have
to be provided so it can be seen what they themselves
say.

First of all, if the coastal cities which were
destroyed were only "on the way to" Judaea (if this
is in fact what the monuments themselves say, which
hasn't yet been shown), then those cities could have
been north of a point where Sennacherib turned and
went up into the mountains and down the ridge of
Isaiah 10:28-32.

Or, if the monuments themselves don't actually say
"on the way to" Judaea, they could be a record of
Sennacherib's victories over coastal cities after he
had passed down the ridge of Isaiah 10:28-32 and out
to the coast.

Or, if the monuments themselves do actually say "on
the way to" Judaea, it's possible that after he had
passed down the ridge of Isaiah 10:28-32 and out to
the coast, he destroyed the coastal cities with the
intent of returning back to Jerusalem and defeating
Hezekiah, so that he would have put on the monuments
that the destruction of the coastal cities was "on
the way" to what he planned to be the grand prize of
Jerusalem and the defeat of Hezekiah himself, but
which in fact never happened because God destroyed
his army before he could actually return to Jerusalem
(Isaiah 37:35-37).

Biblewriter posted in message #35:

Finally, 2 Kings 18:17, 2 Chronicles 32:9, and Isaiah
36:2 all say Sennacherib’s forces came to Jerusalem
from Lachish, which was southwest of Jerusalem, not
north of it, as described in this account.

Nothing in 2 Kings 18:17, 2 Chronicles 32:9, or
Isaiah 36:2 requires that Sennacherib hadn't
previously taken the path of Isaiah 10:28-32, but had
only "shaken his fist" at Jerusalem (Isaiah 10:32)
before moving on to try to take other, easier cities
first. Then, while he was laying siege to Lachish, he
could have started to worry how long it could take
him to succeed in a siege against Jerusalem, and so
he sent some people from Lachish to Jerusalem to try
to scare it into surrender with mere words (Isaiah
36:19-20), the same words which had been prophesied
in Isaiah 10:9-10.

Biblewriter posted in message #35:

For all these reasons I maintain that there are few
facts of ancient history as well established as the
fact that the path described in Isaiah 10:28-32 was
not followed by Sennacherib. It is so well established
that the well known historian A. T. Olmstead mocked
how badly Isaiah "blew it" in this prophecy,
commenting that this was simply not the path that
Sennacherib followed. He made this comment in his
monumental 650 page book, "history of Assyria."

The key phrase above is "few facts of ancient
history", as in there are so few detailed facts of
ancient history that no historian can possibly claim
to know all the details of the path which Sennacherib
could have taken in his invasion of Judaea. And the
fact that a historian said Isaiah "blew it" in the
prophecy of Isaiah 10:5-34 shows two things: First,
he agrees that Isaiah 10:5-34 was a prophecy of
Sennacherib's invasion, probably because he could
see how it matches so closely with Isaiah chapters
36-37; but because the historian couldn't find any
surviving detailed facts of ancient history which
supported Isaiah 10:28-32, he for some reason
concluded that Isaiah must have gotten that one part
wrong.

Second, his thinking that scripture can get things
wrong shows that he thinks he knows better than
scripture, which means that he thinks he knows more
than he really knows. So his rejection of Isaiah
10:28-32 could simply be a case of him thinking he
knows something he doesn't really know: that
Sennacherib couldn't possibly have taken that path
down the ridge. The fact remains that Sennacherib
very well could have taken that path. There is no
historical proof whatsoever that he didn't.

If one believes that scripture is inerrant (2 Timothy
3:16), and one will admit that one doesn't know all
the details of ancient history because only a
relatively few have survived, and one will read Isaiah
10:5-34 and Isaiah chapters 36-37 together with an
open mind, without already, for some reason, wanting
Isaiah 10:5-34 to be fulfilled in the future, then one
will see how Isaiah 10:5-34 and Isaiah chapters 36-37
are referring to the same invasion by Sennacherib.

It's the same way with the battle of Gog/Magog. If
one will read Revelation 20:7-9 and Ezekiel chapters
38-39 together with an open mind, without already,
for some reason, wanting Ezekiel chapters 38-39 to be
fulfilled before the time explicitly stated in
Revelation 20:7-9, then one will see how Revelation
20:7-9 and Ezekiel chapters 38-39 are referring to
the same one-time battle of Gog/Magog.

There are so many invasions of Israel in the Bible,
let's not get carried away and start multiplying them
unnecessarily. Let's leave Isaiah 10:5-34 as a past
invasion by Sennacherib, as shown in Isaiah chapters
36-37, and let's leave Ezekiel chapters 38-39 as a
one-time future invasion after the millennium, as
shown in Revelation 20:7-9.

This still leaves an earlier future invasion and
destruction of the current state of Israel in Daniel
11:15-16, which invasion could occur at the start of
the coming tribulation (possibly 2010), and be led by
a huge Iraqi Army which the U.S. will have built up
to invade Iran instead.

And this still leaves subsequent future attacks on
Jerusalem by the Antichrist, such as at the very
start of his being given some power (Daniel 11:21-22),
and then at the abomination of desolation (Daniel
11:21,26) at the beginning of his 42-month world reign
(Revelation 13:5), and then again at the very end of
the tribulation (Daniel 11:41,45), right before the
second coming (Zechariah 14:2-4).

That's certainly enough attacks. No scripture
requires us to invent any more than these. So why
would we want to?
 
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The exact wording of each of these monuments will have
to be provided so it can be seen what they themselves
say.

First of all, if the coastal cities which were
destroyed were only "on the way to" Judaea (if this
is in fact what the monuments themselves say, which
hasn't yet been shown), then those cities could have
been north of a point where Sennacherib turned and
went up into the mountains and down the ridge of
Isaiah 10:28-32.

Or, if the monuments themselves don't actually say
"on the way to" Judaea, they could be a record of
Sennacherib's victories over coastal cities after he
had passed down the ridge of Isaiah 10:28-32 and out
to the coast.

Or, if the monuments themselves do actually say "on
the way to" Judaea, it's possible that after he had
passed down the ridge of Isaiah 10:28-32 and out to
the coast, he destroyed the coastal cities with the
intent of returning back to Jerusalem and defeating
Hezekiah, so that he would have put on the monuments
that the destruction of the coastal cities was "on
the way" to what he planned to be the grand prize of
Jerusalem and the defeat of Hezekiah himself, but
which in fact never happened because God destroyed
his army before he could actually return to Jerusalem
(Isaiah 37:35-37).



Nothing in 2 Kings 18:17, 2 Chronicles 32:9, or
Isaiah 36:2 requires that Sennacherib hadn't
previously taken the path of Isaiah 10:28-32, but had
only "shaken his fist" at Jerusalem (Isaiah 10:32)
before moving on to try to take other, easier cities
first. Then, while he was laying siege to Lachish, he
could have started to worry how long it could take
him to succeed in a siege against Jerusalem, and so
he sent some people from Lachish to Jerusalem to try
to scare it into surrender with mere words (Isaiah
36:19-20), the same words which had been prophesied
in Isaiah 10:9-10.



The key phrase above is "few facts of ancient
history", as in there are so few detailed facts of
ancient history that no historian can possibly claim
to know all the details of the path which Sennacherib
could have taken in his invasion of Judaea. And the
fact that a historian said Isaiah "blew it" in the
prophecy of Isaiah 10:5-34 shows two things: First,
he agrees that Isaiah 10:5-34 was a prophecy of
Sennacherib's invasion, probably because he could
see how it matches so closely with Isaiah chapters
36-37; but because the historian couldn't find any
surviving detailed facts of ancient history which
supported Isaiah 10:28-32, he for some reason
concluded that Isaiah must have gotten that one part
wrong.

Second, his thinking that scripture can get things
wrong shows that he thinks he knows better than
scripture, which means that he thinks he knows more
than he really knows. So his rejection of Isaiah
10:28-32 could simply be a case of him thinking he
knows something he doesn't really know: that
Sennacherib couldn't possibly have taken that path
down the ridge. The fact remains that Sennacherib
very well could have taken that path. There is no
historical proof whatsoever that he didn't.

If one believes that scripture is inerrant (2 Timothy
3:16), and one will admit that one doesn't know all
the details of ancient history because only a
relatively few have survived, and one will read Isaiah
10:5-34 and Isaiah chapters 36-37 together with an
open mind, without already, for some reason, wanting
Isaiah 10:5-34 to be fulfilled in the future, then one
will see how Isaiah 10:5-34 and Isaiah chapters 36-37
are referring to the same invasion by Sennacherib.

It's the same way with the battle of Gog/Magog. If
one will read Revelation 20:7-9 and Ezekiel chapters
38-39 together with an open mind, without already,
for some reason, wanting Ezekiel chapters 38-39 to be
fulfilled before the time explicitly stated in
Revelation 20:7-9, then one will see how Revelation
20:7-9 and Ezekiel chapters 38-39 are referring to
the same one-time battle of Gog/Magog.

There are so many invasions of Israel in the Bible,
let's not get carried away and start multiplying them
unnecessarily. Let's leave Isaiah 10:5-34 as a past
invasion by Sennacherib, as shown in Isaiah chapters
36-37, and let's leave Ezekiel chapters 38-39 as a
one-time future invasion after the millennium, as
shown in Revelation 20:7-9.

This still leaves an earlier future invasion and
destruction of the current state of Israel in Daniel
11:15-16, which invasion could occur at the start of
the coming tribulation (possibly 2010), and be led by
a huge Iraqi Army which the U.S. will have built up
to invade Iran instead.

And this still leaves subsequent future attacks on
Jerusalem by the Antichrist, such as at the very
start of his being given some power (Daniel 11:21-22),
and then at the abomination of desolation (Daniel
11:21,26) at the beginning of his 42-month world reign
(Revelation 13:5), and then again at the very end of
the tribulation (Daniel 11:41,45), right before the
second coming (Zechariah 14:2-4).

That's certainly enough attacks. No scripture
requires us to invent any more than these. So why
would we want to?

I have presented extensive proof that Isaiah 10:24-34 has not been fulfilled. I am not going to bother to look up the exact wording of ancient monuments whose general bearing are so well known as to be undebated except by a few who have specific motives in debating these facts. The truth is, that the only evidence to even suggest that Sennacherib followed this route is that your interpretation of the passage requires that conclusion.

I am not interested in postulation what might have been, or what might happen in the future. I am only interested in what the scriptures specifically say will happen.

As to the rest of this, all of Daniel 11 previous to verse 35 relates to events that took place long before the coming of our Lord Jesus, and no scripture anywhere says that the Antichrist will attack Jerusalem.
 
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Bible2

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Biblewriter posted in message #38:

I have presented extensive proof that Isaiah 10:24-34
has not been fulfilled.

Actually, no proof has been given that Isaiah 10:5-34
wasn't fulfilled by Sennacherib's invasion in Isaiah
chapters 36-37. Each point that has been presented as
"proof" that it wasn't has been addressed and shown to
not require that Isaiah 10:5-34 wasn't fulfilled by
Sennacherib.

Biblewriter posted in message #38:

I am not going to bother to look up the exact wording
of ancient monuments whose general bearing are so
well known as to be undebated except by a few who
have specific motives in debating these facts.

The "general bearing" of a monument can only be
determined by what it actually says, not by how
people may interpret or paraphrase what it says, for
their interpretation/paraphrase of what it says could
be mistaken, especially if they come to the monument
with the preconceived idea that Isaiah 10:5-34 wasn't
fulfilled by Sennacherib.

Biblewriter posted in message #38:

The truth is, that the only evidence to even suggest
that Sennacherib followed this route is that your
interpretation of the passage requires that
conclusion.

The truth is that anyone who reads Isaiah 10:5-34 and
Isaiah chapters 36-37 with an open mind, without any
preconceived ideas, will see that the latter was the
fulfillment of the former.

Regarding one's reference to "this route", there is
no proof whatsoever that Sennacherib didn't fulfill
the route of Isaiah 10:28-32 as just one part of his
invasion.

Biblewriter posted in message #38:

I am not interested in postulation what might have
been, or what might happen in the future. I am only
interested in what the scriptures specifically say
will happen.

It is only an unproven postulation that Sennacherib
didn't fulfill the route of Isaiah 10:28-32, and
no scripture requires that Isaiah 10:28-32 will be
fulfilled in the future.

Biblewriter posted in message #38:

As to the rest of this, all of Daniel 11 previous to
verse 35 relates to events that took place long
before the coming of our Lord Jesus, and no scripture
anywhere says that the Antichrist will attack
Jerusalem.

Actually, Daniel 11:21-45 is referring to the same
endtime individual, the Antichrist, who will attack
Jerusalem at least three separate times: first, at
the very beginning of his career on the world stage,
when he is first given some power (Daniel 11:22),
then two or three years later when he commits the
abomination of desolation (Daniel 11:31, cf. Matthew
24:15), and then again, three or four years later,
right before the return of Jesus (Daniel 11:45,
Zechariah 14:2-4).
 
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I will again post:

The Path of the Assyrian

This map shows the path the Assyrian will follow as he approaches Jerusalem (as described in Isaiah 10:28-32).
judeahmap.jpg



The path defined in Isaiah 10:28-32 covers a distance of about eight miles, from Aiath to Nob, ending withing sight of Jerusalem, only about a mile and a half from the walls. In this passage we are very specifically told that this path will be followed by "the Assyrian," for he is the subject of this chapter, and both verses 28 and 32 specifically call the one who does this "he." He is not alone, for in verse 29 his army is called "they." But this very distinction between "they" and "he" is significant, as is every detail in the Bible.

Of particular note is that when Sennacherib attacked Judah in Isaiah 36 and 37, he never came to Jerusalem, remaining at Lachish, which is about thirty miles southwest of Jerusalem (a very long distance in those days.) But the path described in Isaiah 10 is from the opposite direction, from the North. Instead of coming Himself, Sennacherib sent an officer called "the Rabshekeh" to Jerusalem. (Isaiah 36:2, 37:4) While the Rabshekh was at Jerusalem Sennacherib left Lachish and went to Libnah. (Isaiah 37:8)

Bible 2, you think it should be obvious to any unprejudiced person that these two passages describe the same event. I answer that this is indeed true if the passages are only considered superficially, But when the details are carefully considered, nothing but prejudice could keep anyone from realizing that they deal with different events.

You imagine that you have demonstrated that none of the evidence I presented proves that Isaiah 10 is not speaking of Sennacherib. The truth is that you have only denied that this evidence is significant. You have failed to produce even one item of evidence to back up this claim. "It is obvious" is neither evidence nor proof, but that is the only evidence you have presented, and it is the only evidence you can present, because, even though it may seem obvious to you, it is not correct.

I do not intend to continue this discussion with you because it has degenerated into pointless argument, and "the servant of the Lord must not strive." But I will continue it if you produce any evidence other than simply further denial that this is correct.
 
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