The Assurance of Baptism

[Jonaitis]

It was a way of entrance into the covenant community. But even in the OT covenant community God's people were called to circumcise their hearts (Deuteronomy 10:12-17).

Yeah, but you weren't required to be circumcised in heart to be a member of the covenant community. You were able to be a unsaved, unregenerate, member of the OC, am I correct?

God's people were commanded to believe in Christ in the OT as well, just pointing that out.

 

[JohnB445]

Assurance comes from your faith, along with regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit.

If you find yourself mysteriously losing desire to sin overtime, not by your own efforts, along with a completely changed life at the advent when the Holy Spirit convicted you as a sinner and coming into your life. Those are good signs you have been saved. Along with when you have a growing love for God.

 

[Tree of Life]

Yeah, but you weren't required to be circumcised in heart to be a member of the covenant community. You were able to be a unsaved, unregenerate, member of the OC, am I correct? God's people were commanded to believe in Christ in the OT as well, just pointing that out.

People in the OT covenant community who demonstrated their uncircumcision were to be cut off.

 

[Tree of Life]

Assurance comes from your faith, along with regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Spirit.

If you find yourself mysteriously losing desire to sin overtime, not by your own efforts, along with a completely changed life at the advent when the Holy Spirit convicted you as a sinner and coming into your life. Those are good signs you have been saved. Along with when you have a growing love for God.

Certainly. But baptism also helps! That's why God gave it!

 

[Jonaitis]

People in the OT covenant community who demonstrated their uncircumcision were to be cut off.

Do you have Scripture for that? The OT community had a sacrificial system that dealt with sin committed in the covenant, only some particular outward sins (ex. idolatry) cut off a member of the community. It was possible to a unregenerate Jew in the covenant community as long as they lived.

 

[Tree of Life]

Do you have Scripture for that? The OT community had a sacrificial system that dealt with sin committed in the covenant, only some particular outward sins (ex. idolatry) cut off a member of the community. It was possible to a unregenerate Jew in the covenant community as long as they lived.

Adulterers were to be stoned. People who failed to circumcise their children were to be cutoff. Many sins resulted in death or exile. God cut off apostate Israel by sending them into exile in Assyria. Yes one could be unregenerate but when they demonstrated their unregenerateness by grievous sin they were to be killed or exiled. There are so many Scriptures that demonstrate this. You see what I'm talking about. Do I really need to list some?

In the same way unregenerate people can live their whole lives in the church so long as they don't demonstrate their unregenerateness by heresy or grievous sin.

 

[morse86]

What does Jesus save us from if not sin and its consequences? If people aren't being saved then how are they being saved?

Man is made in the image of God: flesh, soul, and spirit.

Genesis 1:27:
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

When you believe, the spirit is REBORN instantly. The spirit cannot sin. The soul is saved and sealed in Jesus. When Jesus returns, a new INCORRUPTIBLE body (flesh) will be given.

1 John 3:9:
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

John 3:5-6:
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:52:
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[Jonaitis]

Adulterers were to be stoned. People who failed to circumcise their children were to be cutoff. Many sins resulted in death or exile. God cut off apostate Israel by sending them into exile in Assyria. Yes one could be unregenerate but when they demonstrated their unregenerateness by grievous sin they were to be killed or exiled. There are so many Scriptures that demonstrate this. You see what I'm talking about. Do I really need to list some?

In the same way unregenerate people can live their whole lives in the church so long as they don't demonstrate their unregenerateness by heresy or grievous sin.

Again, there are problems with this view.

Circumcised Jews were full members, enjoy full access and privileges, of the covenant promises.

Unregenerate church folk may be part of the visible church, but they aren't members of the Covenant of Grace. In order for them to be members, they would have to be regenerated, as that is promised to the members of the Covenant of Grace I quoted in Jeremiah 31:33.

Edit: I changed Christian to church folk

 

[Pethesedzao]

God gave us baptism to help assure us that we are indeed united to Christ. Sadly in many churches (even Reformed churches) baptism is treated the opposite way. When we preach about baptism we often say things like: "Don't think you're saved just because you're baptized!" And "This is just a ceremony. Baptism alone doesn't save anyone!" While there is some truth to these things, they totally miss the point of baptism.

Baptism was given to us as a sign and seal of the covenant of grace. We are meant to "use" our baptism as a tool of assurance. How do we really know that we are united to Christ? We cannot see our union with Christ as it is a spiritual reality. Paul says we can know by looking at our baptism:

Romans 6:1-3 - What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Paul says - "Think about your baptism! Don't you know that you're united to Christ and called to live a holy life?" Paul thinks that our baptism should mean something to us.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul says that we used to be unregenerate sinners but we are no longer. God changed us. How do we know that God changed us? We were baptized! This doesn't mean that baptism automatically results in regeneration. But it does mean that baptism is given to us as a tool to help assure us that we are indeed regenerate. If we have faith, then as surely as we have been baptized, we have been regenerated to newness of life.

So Christian, what does your baptism mean to you?

There is only one baptism that saves us. There are other baptisms but they don't save anyone...

 

[Pethesedzao]

Baptism is just symbolic of death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

Assurance is:

Have you been baptized with the Spirit?

 

[Tree of Life]

Again, there are problems with this view.

Circumcised Jews were full members, enjoy full access and privileges, of the covenant promises.

Unregenerate church folk may be part of the visible church, but they aren't members of the Covenant of Grace. In order for them to be members, they would have to be regenerated, as that is promised to the members of the Covenant of Grace I quoted in Jeremiah 31:33.

Edit: I changed Christian to church folk

That baptism is a sign and seal of the covenant of grace does not mean that those who are baptized are certainly members of the covenant of grace.

 

[Tree of Life]

There is only one baptism that saves us. There are other baptisms but they don't save anyone...

I'm not saying that water baptism saves. I'm saying that it signifies and seals salvation. Do you believe that water baptism means nothing?

 

[Jonaitis]

That baptism is a sign and seal of the covenant of grace does not mean that those who are baptized are certainly members of the covenant of grace.

We are making progress.

So, if baptism isn't just for members of the CG...why do you baptize infants? :O

 

[morse86]

Have you been baptized with the Spirit?

Yes, I have. I heard the word of God, I believed, and right then and there I was baptized with the spirit.

Romans 10:17:
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Matthew 3:11:
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Matthew 28:19:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 

[Tree of Life]

We are making progress.

So, if baptism isn't just for members...why do you baptize infants? :O

Baptism is for members of the visible church. Infants of believers are members of the visible church.

 

[Tree of Life]

We are making progress.

So, if baptism isn't just for members of the CG...why do you baptize infants? :O

Let me turn the question to you. If you believe that baptism is only for regenerate believers, do you believe it's possible to baptize people who are not truly regenerate?

A further question - is their baptism invalid? If they later realize that they weren't really regenerate at the time they chose to be baptized, should we baptize them again?

 

[Jonaitis]

Baptism is for members of the visible church. Infants of believers are members of the visible church.

I wonder if you see the problems I am seeing in this post. I don't know where to start.

What is the visible church then, and how are infants members of it?

 

[Pethesedzao]

Yes, I have. I heard the word of God, I believed, and right then and there I was baptized with the spirit.

Are you exercising unknown tongues? What gift or gifts has the Spirit given you?

 

[Pethesedzao]

I'm not saying that water baptism saves. I'm saying that it signifies and seals salvation. Do you believe that water baptism means nothing?

Water baptism is an outward sign that we have been buried with Christ and have been raised to New Life. However, it does not save you being an act of works...

 

[Tree of Life]

I wonder if you see the problems I am seeing in this post. I don't know where to start.

What is the visible church then, and how are infants members of it?

Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter 25:
The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the Gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion;[2] and of their children:[3] and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ,[4] the house and family of God,[5] out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation.[6]

Infants are member of the visible church by virtue of being born into a believing family. They are present every Sunday, they are entitled to church discipline (through their parents), they are taught and catechized. They enjoy all the benefits of church membership. Paul calls the children of believers holy and makes them distinct from children of unbelievers in 1 Corinthians 7:14.