The Assurance of Baptism

[royal priest]

You say baptism is not a sign and seal. I demonstrate that circumcision was a sign and seal. You say baptism and circumcision are not comparable. But you are having trouble maintaining this position. I'm just showing you how your position is not consistent.

John Stot,
"The evangelical view is that the sign [baptism] not only signifies the gift [salvation], but seals or pledges it, and pledges it in such a way as to convey not the gift itself, but a title to the gift...
The place and function of circumcision is defined in Romans 4:11 where Abraham is said to have received circumcision as a sign or seal of the righteousness which he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. Here it is said that Abraham received two gifts. First, he received justification, acceptance by faith, while he was still uncircumcised. Secondly, he received circumcision as a sign and seal of this righteousness. The righteousness was given him in Genesis 15; its seal in Genesis 17.
Now, what circumcision was to Abraham, Issac, and his descendants, baptism is to us. It is not only the sign of the covenant membership, but a seal or pledge of covenant blessings. Baptism does not convey these blessings to us, but convey to us a right or title to them, so that if and when we truly believe, we inherit the blessings to which baptism has entitled us."

 

[Pethesedzao]

I wonder if you see the problems I am seeing in this post. I don't know where to start.

What is the visible church then, and how are infants members of it?

Children go straight to Heaven.

 

[Pethesedzao]

Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter 25:
The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the Gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion;[2] and of their children:[3] and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ,[4] the house and family of God,[5] out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation.[6]

Infants are member of the visible church by virtue of being born into a believing family. They are present every Sunday, they are entitled to church discipline (through their parents), they are taught and catechized. They enjoy all the benefits of church membership. Paul calls the children of believers holy and makes them distinct from children of unbelievers in 1 Corinthians 7:14.

A en Amen Amen

 

[morse86]

Are you exercising unknown tongues? What gift or gifts has the Spirit given you?

Tongues? (mother tongue?)

Do you mean languages? Yes, I can speak multiple languages. They spoke multiple languages in the day of Pentecost too....they weren't forming at the mouth talking gibberish nonsense.

1 Corinthians 14:9:
So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

 

[Pethesedzao]

I'm not saying that water baptism saves. I'm saying that it signifies and seals salvation. Do you believe that water baptism means nothing?

Baptism WITH the Spirit doesn't save us either.

 

[Pethesedzao]

On the Day of Pentecost they were baptized with the Spirit and were given the Gift of Tongues.

 

[Pethesedzao]

Tongues? (mother tongue?)

Do you mean languages? Yes, I can speak multiple languages. They spoke multiple languages in the day of Pentecost too....they weren't forming at the mouth talking gibberish nonsense.

Speaking with new tongues is an evidence of the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

 

[morse86]

On the Day of Pentecost they were baptized with the Spirit and were given the Gift of Tongues.

It was a miracle of God. Nothing to do with baptism.

Acts 2:2-4:
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

 

[Pethesedzao]

It was a miracle of God. Nothing to do with baptism.

It was the Baptism WITH the Spirit.

 

[morse86]

It was the Baptism WITH the Spirit.

Lot's of people are baptized with the spirit that only speak 1 language. It was a miracle of God in the day of Pentecost.

Act 2:6-8:
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

 

[Jonaitis]

Westminster Confession of Faith Chapter 25:
The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the Gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion;[2] and of their children:[3] and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ,[4] the house and family of God,[5] out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation.[6]

Infants are member of the visible church by virtue of being born into a believing family. They are present every Sunday, they are entitled to church discipline (through their parents), they are taught and catechized. They enjoy all the benefits of church membership. Paul calls the children of believers holy and makes them distinct from children of unbelievers in 1 Corinthians 7:14.

So then what's the point of baptism, if it can be administered without the reflection of regeneration and a saving faith, if the visible church can obtain it without a real profession of it?

Also, that verse in 1 Corinthians 7:14 refers to a marriage, not children.

If I am not mistaken, the Westminster divines held that infants of believers are members of the CG.

 

[Tree of Life]

So then what's the point of baptism, if it can be administered without the reflection of regeneration and a saving faith, if the visible church can obtain it without a real profession of it?

The point of baptism is to signify and seal the covenant of grace. Go and learn what this means!

Also, that verse in 1 Corinthians 7:14 refers to a marriage, not children.

Read it again. Therein Paul says that the children of a believing parent are holy.

If I am not mistaken, the Westminster divines held that infants of believers are members of the CG.

I believe you are mistaken.

 

[Jonaitis]

Tree of Life,

I understand, I am casting doubt on the conception on the lack of Scriptural evidence. Sure, it sounds nice and profound, but where is the basis for the doctrine? I clearly pointed out enough evidence for my case, which seems ignored and unaddressed. I am not going to fight about mere words.

Also, regarding 1 Corinthians 7:14, we should read it in the context. His argument is that if you are a believer and happen to be in marriage union with an unbeliever, he legitimizes it by counting the spouse holy. Otherwise, your children would be unclean and considered born of an illegitimate union. When a case like this occurs, God counts the whole family a Christian family before him. The context really helps...

 

[Jonaitis]

...since we really got off track from your OP (although it is your post, you can do with whatever you want with it), I'll just leave my conversation with you here. It was fun, but I am taking too much of the internet's space

 

[☦Marius☦]

Let's see the scripture using a real bible.

For Chrismation there is a distinction made between the baptism of water and the baptism of the spirit (laying of the hands):

Acts 8:16-18
For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.
Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,

Acts 19:5-6
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


As for Baptism being required:
Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:28
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

1 Peter 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

God gave us baptism to help assure us that we are indeed united to Christ. Sadly in many churches (even Reformed churches) baptism is treated the opposite way. When we preach about baptism we often say things like: "Don't think you're saved just because you're baptized!" And "This is just a ceremony. Baptism alone doesn't save anyone!" While there is some truth to these things, they totally miss the point of baptism.

Baptism was given to us as a sign and seal of the covenant of grace. We are meant to "use" our baptism as a tool of assurance. How do we really know that we are united to Christ? We cannot see our union with Christ as it is a spiritual reality. Paul says we can know by looking at our baptism:

Romans 6:1-3 - What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Paul says - "Think about your baptism! Don't you know that you're united to Christ and called to live a holy life?" Paul thinks that our baptism should mean something to us.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul says that we used to be unregenerate sinners but we are no longer. God changed us. How do we know that God changed us? We were baptized! This doesn't mean that baptism automatically results in regeneration. But it does mean that baptism is given to us as a tool to help assure us that we are indeed regenerate. If we have faith, then as surely as we have been baptized, we have been regenerated to newness of life.

So Christian, what does your baptism mean to you?

Baptism of Spirit, is the baptism. Baptism of water, is for repentance.

Unfortunately, depending on church, either could be of no effect. How to determine if you have the Spirit, is ' if you keep, the word of Jesus in your heart'. God can give you the Spirit without laying on hands. As he did for the prophets, and many Christians.

John's third letter explains how to know if you have the Spirit.

If you are not considering the words of Jesus through your day, everyday, and obeying them, then is where there is a problem.

That is your best gauge. Be wary of religious rituals and activity which might have you ignore that, and delude you into thinking everything is fine though you ignore Jesus' words.

 

[PaulCyp1]

Jesus Christ clearly taught that we must be reborn through water and the Spirit - an obvious reference to the holy sacrifice of Baptism - if we are to be saved.

 

[Talihood]

for me, it keeps Satan away.

 

[Righttruth]

God gave us baptism to help assure us that we are indeed united to Christ. Sadly in many churches (even Reformed churches) baptism is treated the opposite way. When we preach about baptism we often say things like: "Don't think you're saved just because you're baptized!" And "This is just a ceremony. Baptism alone doesn't save anyone!" While there is some truth to these things, they totally miss the point of baptism.

Baptism was given to us as a sign and seal of the covenant of grace. We are meant to "use" our baptism as a tool of assurance. How do we really know that we are united to Christ? We cannot see our union with Christ as it is a spiritual reality. Paul says we can know by looking at our baptism:

Romans 6:1-3 - What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Paul says - "Think about your baptism! Don't you know that you're united to Christ and called to live a holy life?" Paul thinks that our baptism should mean something to us.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul says that we used to be unregenerate sinners but we are no longer. God changed us. How do we know that God changed us? We were baptized! This doesn't mean that baptism automatically results in regeneration. But it does mean that baptism is given to us as a tool to help assure us that we are indeed regenerate. If we have faith, then as surely as we have been baptized, we have been regenerated to newness of life.

So Christian, what does your baptism mean to you?

Adult immersion baptism is the first step Jesus took before He commenced His ministry. There can be no argument against this for those who believe in Jesus. Those who want to be led by the Holy Spirit with spiritual gifts need to take this. One need to set apart only after a public confession of his faith. One is bound to be tempted after baptism and also one has to face opposition from the world with this act. Only those who endure to the end will be saved. Of course, baptism itself does not save, nor the assurance of the the Spirit baptsim after this.

 

[Pethesedzao]

Lot's of people are baptized with the spirit that only speak 1 language. It was a miracle of God in the day of Pentecost.

They most probably have not been baptized with the Spirit.