• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured The Assurance of Baptism

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Tree of Life, Jan 14, 2019.

  1. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

    +4,851
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    God gave us baptism to help assure us that we are indeed united to Christ. Sadly in many churches (even Reformed churches) baptism is treated the opposite way. When we preach about baptism we often say things like: "Don't think you're saved just because you're baptized!" And "This is just a ceremony. Baptism alone doesn't save anyone!" While there is some truth to these things, they totally miss the point of baptism.

    Baptism was given to us as a sign and seal of the covenant of grace. We are meant to "use" our baptism as a tool of assurance. How do we really know that we are united to Christ? We cannot see our union with Christ as it is a spiritual reality. Paul says we can know by looking at our baptism:

    Romans 6:1-3 - What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

    Paul says - "Think about your baptism! Don't you know that you're united to Christ and called to live a holy life?" Paul thinks that our baptism should mean something to us.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

    Paul says that we used to be unregenerate sinners but we are no longer. God changed us. How do we know that God changed us? We were baptized! This doesn't mean that baptism automatically results in regeneration. But it does mean that baptism is given to us as a tool to help assure us that we are indeed regenerate. If we have faith, then as surely as we have been baptized, we have been regenerated to newness of life.

    So Christian, what does your baptism mean to you?
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. morse86

    morse86 Junior Member

    +485
    United States
    Baptist
    Single
    US-Others
    Baptism is just symbolic of death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

    Assurance is:

     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • List
  3. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

    +4,851
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    So it means nothing for the person baptized? What does a baptized person have that an unbaptized person does not have?
     
  4. morse86

    morse86 Junior Member

    +485
    United States
    Baptist
    Single
    US-Others
    More faith.
     
  5. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

    +4,851
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    Does baptism impart faith? Does it demonstrate faith?
     
  6. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

    +4,851
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    It's kindof interesting that Baptists are the sect that have made baptism the biggest issue and yet for them it means the least.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  7. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Well-Known Member

    +1,513
    United States
    Reformed
    Single
    US-Republican
    Tree of Life,

    You just affirmed that baptism is a means of grace, assurance builds up and strengthens our faith, and that's what a means does, convey more grace for the believer's faith.

    Baptism does actually save. Salvation is more than justification, it is also our progressive sanctification, and it will be our final glorification. These are aspects of our total redemption (including election, regeneration, etc). Since baptism is to be performed after conversion (that moment of justification), that sacrament becomes a means to augment and increase your assurance and faith (as well as the congregation who watches the baptism of others). We are saved, are being saved, and will be saved.
     
  8. morse86

    morse86 Junior Member

    +485
    United States
    Baptist
    Single
    US-Others
    Well, when they get baptized...it symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection. I guess it demonstrates faith outwardly.
     
  9. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Well-Known Member

    +1,513
    United States
    Reformed
    Single
    US-Republican
    I beg to differ...
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  10. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

    +4,851
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    Baptism is not always performed after conversion. Infants are baptized before they are converted.
     
  11. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

    +4,851
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    To whom does it demonstrate faith? Does it mean anything for the one baptized or is it just for everyone else?
     
  12. morse86

    morse86 Junior Member

    +485
    United States
    Baptist
    Single
    US-Others
    That's not what the bible says.

    Faith comes first (it's instant, not a long drawn out process). Once saved, always saved.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  13. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Well-Known Member

    +1,513
    United States
    Reformed
    Single
    US-Republican
    I already know that this is your position when you said in the OP that baptism is a sign and seal of the CG. I differ on that opinion, but this is for another discussion on another topic.
     
  14. ☦Marius☦

    ☦Marius☦ Orthodox Hillbilly Supporter

    +1,331
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    US-Others
    This is not true, the new testament makes clear that if Baptism is available to a person, then it is a requirement, just as is Chrismation. The sad thing is that most churches do not even bother with chrism despite the New Testaments instructions otherwise.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  15. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Well-Known Member

    +1,513
    United States
    Reformed
    Single
    US-Republican
    I think there is a miscommunication. When a believer is quickened in their spirit, they immediately have faith in the gospel for the forgiveness of their sins and their right standing before God. I am talking about what happens in a believer's life after conversion (his perfecting in holiness).
     
  16. morse86

    morse86 Junior Member

    +485
    United States
    Baptist
    Single
    US-Others
    Let's see the scripture using a real bible.
     
  17. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

    +4,851
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    Why is baptism not a sign and seal of the CG?
     
  18. morse86

    morse86 Junior Member

    +485
    United States
    Baptist
    Single
    US-Others
    The people you pull out of the fire (door to door soul winning).....most of them never do anything after getting saved. They continue business as always.

    There are lot's of believers that do not go to church, drink alcohol, and never get baptized. It's sin but they are still saved.

    I think this just semantical word games trying to turn salvation into something of works instead of grace through faith.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  19. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

    +4,851
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    What a weird idea of salvation.
     
  20. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Well-Known Member

    +1,513
    United States
    Reformed
    Single
    US-Republican
    Well, the seal of the CG would actually be the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

    "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." - Ephesians 1:13, 14

    "...do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." - Ephesians 4:30


    A seal is a kind of stamp of approval to a promise(s), it doesn't make sense for baptism to be that seal (and there is no Scriptural basis for it), but the Holy Spirit who permenently indwells in each and every believer who inherit the promise of eternal life and the resurrection of the body.

    Also, if you affirm that CG continuity with the other covenants of promise, then calling it a sign and seal would be exclude the redeemed in the Old Testament.

    The sign of the CG is regeneration, the circumcision of the heart, as the sign of the OC is circumcision of the flesh. The sign relates to the nature of the covenant, a carnal one for a carnal covenant, a spiritual one for a spiritual covenant. Where is this in Scripture? Jeremiah 31:31-34, but specifically verse 33 in using language of a sign as in Genesis 17:

    "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts."

    We find no Scriptural basis for baptism being called the sign of the New Covenant or Covenant of Grace.
     
Loading...