The Assumption of Mary

[patricius79]

The word κεχαριτωμένη, (kecharitōménē), here translated as "full of grace", admits of various translations.....
The point is that word was never used for any other at any other time, and the past tense usage signifies God already had graced her, is gracing her and will continue to grace her.
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my understanding is that "Hail, Having Been Favored" is literal translation.

then we have Elizabeth filled with the Spirit at Mary's greeting, and saying

"Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And how can it be that the Mother of my Lord...etc"

there's a lot there my friends

 

[Incariol]

Well, I'm not God, Mary is NOT my mother, and Mary is not the Queen of Heaven.

Mary's my mother, since I am striving to be more like Christ and united to Him. And since she is the mother of our King, that makes her my queen.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Mary's my mother, since I am striving to be more like Christ and united to Him. And since she is the mother of our King, that makes her my queen.

A king's mother is not his queen. For example, the mother of Queen Elizabeth II was never Queen during her life. Her father was king of England, but her mother was known as the Queen('s) Mother as her official title. In the same way, the husband of Queen Elizabeth II is not King Philip, but Prince Philip. He will never be king. Following the death of the Queen her son, Prince Charles, will ascend to the throne if he is alive at that time. His wife, Camilla, will not become Queen, but will simply be known as the Royal Consort. In the same way, assuming that Prince William ascends to the throne of England his wife, Katherine, will not become Queen Catherine, but will be given the title of Princess Catherine.

 

[Thekla]

A king's mother is not his queen. For example, the mother of Queen Elizabeth II was never Queen during her life. Her father was king of England, but her mother was known as the Queen('s) Mother as her official title. In the same way, the husband of Queen Elizabeth II is not King Philip, but Prince Philip. He will never be king. Following the death of the Queen her son, Prince Charles, will ascend to the throne if he is alive at that time. His wife, Camilla, will not become Queen, but will simply be known as the Royal Consort. In the same way, assuming that Prince William ascends to the throne of England his wife, Katherine, will not become Queen Catherine, but will be given the title of Princess Catherine.

That's the western understanding; the mother of the king = queen is a more ancient (eastern) understanding.

 

[Mark_Sam]

That's the western understanding; the mother of the king = queen is a more ancient (eastern) understanding.

Especially when you consider that the kings of the ancient world had multiple wives. King Solomon had 700 wives, but only one mother ...

 

[MamaZ]

And how was a person to have more than one mother?

 

[Thekla]

And how was a person to have more than one mother?

In the same manner that one has more than one father.

 

[abysmul]

In the same manner that one has more than one father.

Wow. That very insinuation of any sort of equality where in Christ is our Father and Mary is out "Mother"... wow, that is the rock which Mary worship is based on it seems to many of us non Mary worshipers.

 

[Thekla]

Wow. That very insinuation of any sort of equality where in Christ is our Father and Mary is out "Mother"... wow, that is the rock which Mary worship is based on it seems to many of us non Mary worshipers.

As you choose to "read" it;
yet Paul referred to himself as a "father", to Timothy and to those in Corinth.

How do you conclude that I have insinuated that Mary=God, that I worship Mary.

Both of your statements are false.

I had assumed that most posting here were familiar enough with Scripture to catch the Pauline/father reference.

 

[Incariol]

I had assumed that most posting here were familiar enough with Scripture to catch the Pauline/father reference.

Yes.

 

[MamaZ]

Can one literally have more than one father or mother? Can a baby be conceived by more than one female and one male?

 

[WarriorAngel]

Um, let's see, God our Father as Jesus says He is, is God our Father in Heaven - and our fathers who gave us dna are on earth.
That looks like two fathers to me.

Anyone else see that?

 

[Bryne]

Can one literally have more than one father or mother? Can a baby be conceived by more than one female and one male?

I have two mothers and two fathers. I have a birth mother and father, and my actual mother and father, who adopted me at birth.

I was conceived by one set of parents, but I don't consider those parents to be my actual real parents at all. There is more to being a mother than biology.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Well, I'm not God, Mary is NOT my mother, and Mary is not the Queen of Heaven.

Good luck with that.

my understanding is that "Hail, Having Been Favored" is literal translation.

then we have Elizabeth filled with the Spirit at Mary's greeting, and saying

"Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And how can it be that the Mother of my Lord...etc"

there's a lot there my friends

I gave the meaning of the word and there is no literal translation for a past and present and future oriented verb.
The word is unique - and therefore had to be dissected to comprehend it from the Koine,

That's the western understanding; the mother of the king = queen is a more ancient (eastern) understanding.

 

[Bryne]

I found this article to be interesting in regards to Mary's status as Queen Mother:

The Queen Mother? | Christian History

 

[bbbbbbb]

Especially when you consider that the kings of the ancient world had multiple wives. King Solomon had 700 wives, but only one mother ...

This discussion switches back and forth all the time. We see here that King Solomon only had one mother. I have no difficulty with that at all. However, the discussion since morphed into a defense of the concept of multiple mothers and fathers. Either one has only one mother or the defintion of mother becomes so flexible as to mean almost any female older than you (i.e. not your sister). Mary is my mother, as is Susan and Rachel and Josephine and Marissa . . . In today's world there are probably some that even might contend that David is their mother along with Chet and Chris . . .

 

[MamaZ]

This discussion switches back and forth all the time. We see here that King Solomon only had one mother. I have no difficulty with that at all. However, the discussion since morphed into a defense of the concept of multiple mothers and fathers. Either one has only one mother or the defintion of mother becomes so flexible as to mean almost any female older than you (i.e. not your sister). Mary is my mother, as is Susan and Rachel and Josephine and Marissa . . . In today's world there are probably some that even might contend that David is their mother along with Chet and Chris . . .

Sad but so true with the chet and chris statment.

 

[MamaZ]

I have two mothers and two fathers. I have a birth mother and father, and my actual mother and father, who adopted me at birth.

I was conceived by one set of parents, but I don't consider those parents to be my actual real parents at all. There is more to being a mother than biology.

I understand that but there is only one that birthed you. Mary did not birth me physically or Spiritually and she did not adopt me. So therefore she is not my mother.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

According to The Catholic Encyclopedia:

The belief in the corporeal assumption of Mary is founded on the apocryphal treatise De Obitu S. Dominae, bearing the name of St. John, which belongs however to the fourth or fifth century. It is also found in the book De Transitu Virginis, falsely ascribed to St. Melito of Sardis, and in a spurious letter attributed to St. Denis the Areopagite. If we consult genuine writings in the East, it is mentioned in the sermons of St. Andrew of Crete, St. John Damascene, St. Modestus of Jerusalem and others. In the West, St. Gregory of Tours (De gloria mart., I, iv) mentions it first. The sermons of St. Jerome and St. Augustine for this feast, however, are spurious. St. John of Damascus (P.G., I, 96) thus formulates the tradition of the Church of Jerusalem:

St. Juvenal, Bishop of Jerusalem, at the Council of Chalcedon (451), made known to the Emperor Marcian and Pulcheria, who wished to possess the body of the Mother of God, that Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened, upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven.​

Today, the belief in the corporeal assumption of Mary is universal in the East and in the West; according to Benedict XIV (De Festis B.V.M., I, viii, 18) it is a probable opinion, which to deny were impious and blasphemous.[/b]
​

It seems to me that the evidence of the assumption of Mary is questionable, at best. Why believe this? What possible benefit to salvation does this belief have?

Also, why is it considered to be "blasphemous" to deny that this happened?

Dogma only in the RC denomination, yes - the basis for this is late and unfounded.

And yes - it seems entirely, completely MOOT to anything whatsoever.





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[Incariol]

Spiritually and she did not adopt me. So therefore she is not my mother.

That's very sad. It is very comforting knowing I have a loving Mother in Heaven interceding for me with her Son and God.