The Assumption of Mary

[Incariol]

It is Jesus who forever lives and intercedes for me.

I didn't ever claim otherwise.

He is more than able to keep who the Father has given Him. I really don't see in the Apostles teachings that Mary is in heaven interceding for us.

Ok, that's cool.

 

[sheina]

It is Jesus who forever lives and intercedes for me. He is more than able to keep who the Father has given Him. I really don't see in the Apostles teachings that Mary is in heaven interceding for us.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Mary doesn't "intercede", nor is she co-mediatrix with Jesus. It is Jesus ALONE who intercedes for the saints and He is our ONLY mediator.

 

[Incariol]

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Mary doesn't "intercede", nor is she co-mediatrix with Jesus. It is Jesus ALONE who intercedes for the saints and He is our ONLY mediator.

Mediation and intercession are not the same thing.

 

[sheina]

Mediation and intercession are not the same thing.

Doesn't matter, Mary does neither. Mediation is done through Jesus ALONE (1 Timothy 2:5)....Jesus Christ ALONE is always interceding for the saints (Hebrews 7:25)

 

[Incariol]

Doesn't matter, Mary does neither. Mediation is done through Jesus ALONE (1 Timothy 2:5)....Jesus Christ ALONE is always interceding for the saints (Hebrews 7:25)

LOL, good job adding the word "alone" to Hebrews 7:25.

 

[sheina]

LOL, good job adding the word "alone" to Hebrews 7:25.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Do you see anyone else mentioned in that verse? I didn't ADD anything to that verse....Jesus ALONE is implied.

 

[Incariol]

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Do you see anyone else mentioned in that verse? I didn't ADD anything to that verse....Jesus ALONE is implied.

No, alone is not implied in the slightest. All it says is that Jesus is able to save and he makes intercession for us. The idea that Jesus is the only one allowed to pray is something you are just reading into the verse.

 

[Thekla]

Doesn't matter, Mary does neither. Mediation is done through Jesus ALONE (1 Timothy 2:5)....Jesus Christ ALONE is always interceding for the saints (Hebrews 7:25)

The term "mediator" in Greek means roughly a "contract maker".
Intercession is practiced, requested, and exhorted by Paul in the epistles.

 

[sheina]

No, alone is not implied in the slightest. All it says is that Jesus is able to save and he makes intercession for us. The idea that Jesus is the only one allowed to pray is something you are just reading into the verse.

What do you mean ALL that it says....it says ALOT more. He saves to the uttermost (which means that His blood was sufficient to wash away ALL sin for ALL time, for ALL men). You certainly put limits on our omnipotent God and Saviour. Mary does not pray for us nor intercede for us.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

 

[Incariol]

What do you mean ALL that it says....it says ALOT more. He saves to the uttermost (which means that His blood was sufficient to wash away ALL sin for ALL time, for ALL men). You certainly put limits on our omnipotent God and Saviour.

I don't even get what this rant means.

Mary does not pray for us nor intercede for us. Get over it.

Mary does pray for us and intercedes for us. Get over it.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Yes? You keep repeating this as if it is meaningful. Maybe you would like to explain?

 

[sheina]

I don't even get what this rant means.

Mary does pray for us and intercedes for us. Get over it.

Nope, you may think she prays and intercedes for you, but don't tell me she prays and intercedes for me, because she doesn't. Jesus Christ is my High Priest (and He is the ONLY High Priest) Who intercedes for the saints. So dream on and believe what you want, but don't tell me that Mary is my intercesser with Christ. It's not Scriptural.

Yes? You keep repeating this as if it is meaningful. Maybe you would like to explain?

All Scripture is meaningful to me. All Scripture is my sole authority for Christian living.

 

[Incariol]

Nope, you may think she prays and intercedes for you, but don't tell me she prays and intercedes for me, because she doesn't. Jesus Christ is my High Priest (and He is the ONLY High Priest) Who intercedes for the saints. So dream on and believe what you want, but don't tell me that Mary is my intercesser with Christ. It's not Scriptural.

Ok, Mary prays for me, but not for you. Happy?

All Scripture is meaningful to me. All Scripture is my sole authority for Christian living.

I don't see how that is relevant, and I like peanut butter cookies. And Titus Lucretius Carus.

 

[sheina]

Ok, Mary prays for me, but not for you. Happy?

It is disheartening to see how some people would choose to believe that a dead saint prays for them...and not to trust in in the Lord Jesus Christ alone to intercede for them.

I don't see how that is relevant, and I like peanut butter cookies. And Titus Lucretius Carus.

It's not relevant to one who doesn't believe in the sufficiency of the Scriptures, but it is very relevant to those who do. Liking peanut butter cookies and Titus Lucretius Carus (whoever that is) has nothing to do with the authority of God's Holy Word.

 

[Thekla]

Where does Scripture teach that to be with Christ is to be dead ???

 

[Incariol]

It is disheartening to see how some people would choose to believe that a dead saint prays for them...

I'm not trusting in a dead saint to pray for me. That would be silly. I trust living saints like the Theotokos, the Apostles, Church Fathers and people on this earth like my friends and clergy to pray for me.

and not to trust in in the Lord Jesus Christ alone to intercede for them.

Who are you talking about? No one in this thread has said they don't trust in Christ.

It's not relevant to one who doesn't believe in the sufficiency of the Scriptures, but it is very relevant to those who do. Liking peanut butter cookies and Titus Lucretius Carus (whoever that is) has nothing to do with the authority of God's Holy Word.

Neither is your verse particularly relevant to your own position from my perspective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titus_Lucretius_Carus

Titus Lucretius Carus (ca. 99 BC – ca. 55 BC) was a Roman poet and philosopher. His only known work is an epic philosophical poem laying out the beliefs of Epicureanism, De rerum natura, translated into English as On the Nature of Things or "On the Nature of the Universe".

 

[Thekla]

You certainly put limits on our omnipotent God and Saviour.

Why do you limit His ability to give to life to those who are with Him ?

 

[bbbbbbb]

I'm not trusting in a dead saint to pray for me. That would be silly. I trust living saints like the Theotokos, the Apostles, Church Fathers and people on this earth like my friends and clergy to pray for me.

What you are trusting a demi-gods dressed up as saints. How can you sincerely believe that any saint in heaven can have the ability much less the interest to hear innumerable prayers (some of them said in utter silence) simultaneously and answer them simultaneously without possessing the uniquely divine attributes of onmiscience and omnipresence?

Who are you talking about? No one in this thread has said they don't trust in Christ.

True, but there are those of us who are trusting other individuals than Christ such as the pantheon of saints. How many (demi-)gods did God say He would allow a person?

Neither is your verse particularly relevant to your own position from my perspective.

Lucretius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Titus Lucretius Carus (ca. 99 BC – ca. 55 BC) was a Roman poet and philosopher. His only known work is an epic philosophical poem laying out the beliefs of Epicureanism, De rerum natura, translated into English as On the Nature of Things or "On the Nature of the Universe".

 

[Incariol]

What you are trusting a demi-gods dressed up as saints.

Let the record note that it is YOU calling Mary, the Mother of God, a demi-god, not I.

How can you sincerely believe that any saint in heaven can have the ability much less the interest to hear innumerable prayers (some of them said in utter silence) simultaneously and answer them simultaneously without possessing the uniquely divine attributes of onmiscience and omnipresence?

Easily. Its called Matthew 19:26.

True, but there are those of us who are trusting other individuals than Christ such as the pantheon of saints. How many (demi-)gods did God say He would allow a person?

Zero, but this thread isn't about demi-gods, is it? It is about the saints. I'm glad you at least recognize that our relationship with other people doesn't impede our trusting in Jesus.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

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Let's say that Mary is the Mother of Jesus - who is the Incarnate Second Person...

How does THAT substantiate that it is a matter of highest importance and relevance, and greatest certainty of Truth that Mary was Assumed into Heaven upon Her death (or was it undeath)? I don't follow the RC "thinking" here at all....





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[Rhamiel]

What you are trusting a demi-gods dressed up as saints. How can you sincerely believe that any saint in heaven can have the ability much less the interest to hear innumerable prayers (some of them said in utter silence) simultaneously and answer them simultaneously without possessing the uniquely divine attributes of onmiscience and omnipresence?



True, but there are those of us who are trusting other individuals than Christ such as the pantheon of saints. How many (demi-)gods did God say He would allow a person?

why would they be a demi-god? to be able to hear millions of people pray would not make you all knowing... it would mean that the mind of the saints in heaven is stronger then the minds of mortals who suffer from the effects of the Fall
this would make sense, our minds are harmed by the sinful nature we are born into
to be able to hear millions, even billions of prayers at one time would not even put you CLOSE to God, God is so far above His creation!

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Let's say that Mary is the Mother of Jesus - who is the Incarnate Second Person...

How does THAT substantiate that it is a matter of highest importance and relevance, and greatest certainty of Truth that Mary was Assumed into Heaven upon Her death (or was it undeath)? I don't follow the RC "thinking" here at all....





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Josh, you should try to learn more about what the Catholic Church teaches before you try to debate it online