The Argument for Universal Reconciliation from the Book of Romans

[Jeff Saunders]

There is that "ages to come" again with no scriptural support. "These tell us that the earth is Gods footstool and this will happen in the ages to come." If as you allege all mankind are God's footstool, why do so many vss. say "until God makes your enemies your footstool." if they already are? Joshua in the O.T. shows us what it means.

I was reading this morning and this verse was part of what I was reading. Hebrews 2:8 “ You have set everything in order ( 1Cor 15:21-28) under his feet. For in this subordination of all things he left nothing not ordered under him. BUT AT PRESENT WE DO NOT YET SEE ALL THINGS ORDERED UNDER HIM.” You see that the author of Hebrews was saying the very thing that many don’t understand. I have seen many times people saying I don’t see everyone being saved , that’s the next age . That’s why it says we don’t see it at this present time. This is what I have been trying to get you to understand, stop looking at only the present moment and understand the big picture of what God is doing.

 

[Der Alte]

I was reading this morning and this verse was part of what I was reading. Hebrews 2:8 “ You have set everything in order ( 1Cor 15:21-28) under his feet. For in this subordination of all things he left nothing not ordered under him. BUT AT PRESENT WE DO NOT YET SEE ALL THINGS ORDERED UNDER HIM.” You see that the author of Hebrews was saying the very thing that many don’t understand. I have seen many times people saying I don’t see everyone being saved , that’s the next age . That’s why it says we don’t see it at this present time. This is what I have been trying to get you to understand, stop looking at only the present moment and understand the big picture of what God is doing.

Are faithful followers of Jesus ever trodden under His feet?

1 Corinthians 15:21-28​

(21) For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.​

(22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.​

(23) But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.​

This does NOT say "all will be made alive in Christ!" All men are "in Adam" because Adam is the progenitor of all mankind. But all men are not "in Christ" unless they make a knowing, conscious decision in this life.
Note vs. 23 "every man" [will be made alive] "in his own order Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."
NOT all mankind. When will those who don't belong to Christ when He comes be made alive?

(24) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.​

(25) For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.​

(26) The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.​

(27) For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.​

(28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.​

Hebrews 3:11-12​

(11) So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)​

(12) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.​

When will these be made a live under Christ?

Hebrews 3:17​

(17) But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?​

Hebrews 3:18-19​

(18) And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?​

(19) So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.​

Hebrews 4:3​

(3) For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.​

Hebrews 6:4-6​

(4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,​

(5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,​

(6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.​

Hebrews 10:26-31​

(26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,​

(27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.​

(28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:​

(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?​

(30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.​

(31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

Why would it be a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God if all mankind is going to be saved no matter what?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Are faithful followers of Jesus ever trodden under His feet?

1 Corinthians 15:21-28​

(21) For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.​

(22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.​

(23) But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.​

This does NOT say "all will be made alive in Christ!" All men are "in Adam" because Adam is the progenitor of all mankind. But all men are not "in Christ" unless they make a knowing, conscious decision in this life.
Note vs. 23 "every man" [will be made alive] "in his own order Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."
NOT all mankind. When will those who don't belong to Christ when He comes be made alive?

(24) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.​

(25) For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.​

(26) The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.​

(27) For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.​

(28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.​

Hebrews 3:11-12​

(11) So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)​

(12) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.​

When will these be made a live under Christ?

Hebrews 3:17​

(17) But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?​

Hebrews 3:18-19​

(18) And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?​

(19) So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.​

Hebrews 4:3​

(3) For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.​

Hebrews 6:4-6​

(4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,​

(5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,​

(6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.​

Hebrews 10:26-31​

(26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,​

(27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.​

(28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:​

(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?​

(30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.​

(31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

Why would it be a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God if all mankind is going to be saved no matter what?

Read it again Hebrews doesn’t say anything about being trodden under Jesus feet . You put that there not me. It says we are subjected under Jesus. The point was that not all are subjected to Jesus yet , we don’t see it yet. As for 1Cor 15:22 it’s not how you understand it it’s a sentence that says all in Adam is the same all that will be in Christ. You are doing the same thing the Calvinist do they say All doesn’t mean all it’s all kind of people. I understand that scripture goes against the tradition of ECT but that’s what it says. Why do you think Adams sin is stronger than Jesus and what he did on the cross?Do you believe that where sin abounds grace abounds even more? Or is it where sin abounds grace abounds a little bit?

 

[Der Alte]

Read it again Hebrews doesn’t say anything about being trodden under Jesus feet . You put that there not me. It says we are subjected under Jesus. The point was that not all are subjected to Jesus yet , we don’t see it yet. As for 1Cor 15:22 it’s not how you understand it it’s a sentence that says all in Adam is the same all that will be in Christ. You are doing the same thing the Calvinist do they say All doesn’t mean all it’s all kind of people. I understand that scripture goes against the tradition of ECT but that’s what it says. Why do you think Adams sin is stronger than Jesus and what he did on the cross?Do you believe that where sin abounds grace abounds even more? Or is it where sin abounds grace abounds a little bit?

Doesn't really address my posts. When do the footstools of Jesus become faithful followers? Which particular scripture shows that?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Doesn't really address my posts. When do the footstools of Jesus become faithful followers? Which particular scripture shows that?

I am sorry that you are having such a hard time understanding this teaching, maybe you are not ready for it yet. There is a saying that I like - when the student is ready the teaching will come. So when you are ready it will come. But here it goes again. 1Cor 15:28 says when all are subjected to Christ . Those who believe in this age are subjecting themselves to Jesus. Those who do not subject themselves to Jesus in this age are going to be judged as such and are going to be Gods footstool. Both groups are subjected under Jesus but they do not receive the same inheritance. Those who subject themselves in this age are part of Gods family, we become one with Jesus, we are family members of the kingdom of God . Those who subject themselves in the next age, remember EVERY KNEE WILL /SHALL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE GLADLY CONFESS THAT JESUS IS LORD, will be the subjects of that kingdom. So the believers in this age never become the footstool of God but we are subjecting our selves to him.

 

[Der Alte]

I am sorry that you are having such a hard time understanding this teaching, maybe you are not ready for it yet. There is a saying that I like - when the student is ready the teaching will come. So when you are ready it will come. But here it goes again. 1Cor 15:28 says when all are subjected to Christ . Those who believe in this age are subjecting themselves to Jesus. Those who do not subject themselves to Jesus in this age are going to be judged as such and are going to be Gods footstool. Both groups are subjected under Jesus but they do not receive the same inheritance. Those who subject themselves in this age are part of Gods family, we become one with Jesus, we are family members of the kingdom of God . Those who subject themselves in the next age, remember EVERY KNEE WILL /SHALL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE GLADLY CONFESS THAT JESUS IS LORD, will be the subjects of that kingdom. So the believers in this age never become the footstool of God but we are subjecting our selves to him.

You continue to deliberately misquote scripture to make it support your assumptions/presuppositions. The word "gladly" does NOT occur in the full definition of exomolegeo. There is NO gladly in the definition.

ἐξομολογέω (s. next entry and ὁμολογέω) 1 aor. ἐξωμολόγησα; fut. mid. ἐξομολογήσομαι; aor. mid. ἐξωμολογησάμην LXX (quotable since III b.c.—Mitt-Wilck. II/2, 20, 18; 37, 17—PHib 30, 18 [300–271 b.c.]; also LXX, pseudepigr., Philo, Joseph.).
① to indicate acceptance of an offer or proposal, promise, consent, act., abs. Lk 22:6 (the act. is found as rarely [perh. Alex. Aphr., An. Mant. II 1 p. 168, 15] as the pass. [perh. SIG 685, 95]).
② to make an admission of wrong-doing/sin, confess, admit, mid. (Plut., Eum. 594 [17, 7], Anton. 943 [59, 3] τ. ἀλήθειαν, Stoic. Repugn. 17 p. 1042a; Sus 14; Jos., Bell. 1, 625, Ant. 8, 256) τὶ someth. (POslo 17, 14 [136 a.d.] τὸ ἀληθές; Cyranides p. 100, 18 πάντα ὅσα ἔπραξεν; Orig., C. Cels. 2, 11, 30 τὸ ἡμαρτημένον) τὰς ἁμαρτίας (Jos., Ant. 8, 129; s. the ins in Steinleitner, nos. 13, 5; 23, 2; 24, 11; 25, 10) Mt 3:6; Mk 1:5 (cp. 1QS 1:24–26); Js 5:16 (s. PAlthaus, Zahn Festgabe 1928, 1ff); Hv 1, 1, 3; Hs 9, 23, 4. τὰς ἁ. τῷ κυρίῳ confess sins to the Lord Hv 3, 1, 5, cp. 6. τὰ παραπτώματα ἐν ἐκκλησίᾳ confess transgressions in the congregation D 4:14. περὶ τῶν παραπτωμάτων make a confession of transgressions 1 Cl 51:3. ἐπὶ τ. ἁμαρτίαις for sins B 19:12. Abs. make a confession of sins Ac 19:18; 2 Cl 8:3. W. dat. of the one to whom sins are confessed 1 Cl 52:1, 2 (w. similarity in form to Ps 7:18; 117:19 and sim. Ps passages, but not=praise because of 1 Cl 51:3 [s. 4 below]).—JSchnitzer, D. Beichte im Lichte d. Religionsgesch.: Ztschr. f. Völkerpsychol. 6, 1930, 94–105; RPettazzoni, La confessione dei Peccati II ’35.
③ to declare openly in acknowledgment, profess, acknowledge, mid. (PHib 30, s. above; POxy 1473, 9; Lucian, Herm. 75) w. ὅτι foll. Phil 2:11 (Is 45:23; s. 4 below).—Nägeli 67.
④ fr. the mngs. ‘confess’ and ‘profess’ there arose, as Rtzst., Erlösungsmyst. 252 shows, the more general sense to praise, in acknowledgment of divine beneficence and majesty (so mostly LXX; TestJob 40:2 πρὸς τὸν πατέρα ) w. dat. of the one praised (oft. LXX; TestSol 1:5; Philo, Leg. All. 1, 80) σοί (2 Km 22:50; 1 Ch 29:13; Ps 85:12; 117:28 al.; Did., Gen. 60, 20) Mt 11:25=Lk 10:21 (s. Norden, Agn. Th. 277–308; JWeiss, GHeinrici Festschr. 1914, 120ff; TArvedson,[/indent]

 

[Jeff Saunders]

You continue to deliberately misquote scripture to make it support your assumptions/presuppositions. The word "gladly" does NOT occur in the full definition of exomolegeo. There is NO gladly in the definition.

ἐξομολογέω (s. next entry and ὁμολογέω) 1 aor. ἐξωμολόγησα; fut. mid. ἐξομολογήσομαι; aor. mid. ἐξωμολογησάμην LXX (quotable since III b.c.—Mitt-Wilck. II/2, 20, 18; 37, 17—PHib 30, 18 [300–271 b.c.]; also LXX, pseudepigr., Philo, Joseph.).
① to indicate acceptance of an offer or proposal, promise, consent, act., abs. Lk 22:6 (the act. is found as rarely [perh. Alex. Aphr., An. Mant. II 1 p. 168, 15] as the pass. [perh. SIG 685, 95]).
② to make an admission of wrong-doing/sin, confess, admit, mid. (Plut., Eum. 594 [17, 7], Anton. 943 [59, 3] τ. ἀλήθειαν, Stoic. Repugn. 17 p. 1042a; Sus 14; Jos., Bell. 1, 625, Ant. 8, 256) τὶ someth. (POslo 17, 14 [136 a.d.] τὸ ἀληθές; Cyranides p. 100, 18 πάντα ὅσα ἔπραξεν; Orig., C. Cels. 2, 11, 30 τὸ ἡμαρτημένον) τὰς ἁμαρτίας (Jos., Ant. 8, 129; s. the ins in Steinleitner, nos. 13, 5; 23, 2; 24, 11; 25, 10) Mt 3:6; Mk 1:5 (cp. 1QS 1:24–26); Js 5:16 (s. PAlthaus, Zahn Festgabe 1928, 1ff); Hv 1, 1, 3; Hs 9, 23, 4. τὰς ἁ. τῷ κυρίῳ confess sins to the Lord Hv 3, 1, 5, cp. 6. τὰ παραπτώματα ἐν ἐκκλησίᾳ confess transgressions in the congregation D 4:14. περὶ τῶν παραπτωμάτων make a confession of transgressions 1 Cl 51:3. ἐπὶ τ. ἁμαρτίαις for sins B 19:12. Abs. make a confession of sins Ac 19:18; 2 Cl 8:3. W. dat. of the one to whom sins are confessed 1 Cl 52:1, 2 (w. similarity in form to Ps 7:18; 117:19 and sim. Ps passages, but not=praise because of 1 Cl 51:3 [s. 4 below]).—JSchnitzer, D. Beichte im Lichte d. Religionsgesch.: Ztschr. f. Völkerpsychol. 6, 1930, 94–105; RPettazzoni, La confessione dei Peccati II ’35.
③ to declare openly in acknowledgment, profess, acknowledge, mid. (PHib 30, s. above; POxy 1473, 9; Lucian, Herm. 75) w. ὅτι foll. Phil 2:11 (Is 45:23; s. 4 below).—Nägeli 67.
④ fr. the mngs. ‘confess’ and ‘profess’ there arose, as Rtzst., Erlösungsmyst. 252 shows, the more general sense to praise, in acknowledgment of divine beneficence and majesty (so mostly LXX; TestJob 40:2 πρὸς τὸν πατέρα ) w. dat. of the one praised (oft. LXX; TestSol 1:5; Philo, Leg. All. 1, 80) σοί (2 Km 22:50; 1 Ch 29:13; Ps 85:12; 117:28 al.; Did., Gen. 60, 20) Mt 11:25=Lk 10:21 (s. Norden, Agn. Th. 277–308; JWeiss, GHeinrici Festschr. 1914, 120ff; TArvedson,[/indent]

You are so focused on “gladly “ that you didn’t even address the what I wrote. I know that’s it’s easier to distract attention elsewhere, but would you address what I wrote? Take out the word gladly I don’t care , but address the question.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

You continue to deliberately misquote scripture to make it support your assumptions/presuppositions. The word "gladly" does NOT occur in the full definition of exomolegeo. There is NO gladly in the definition.

ἐξομολογέω (s. next entry and ὁμολογέω) 1 aor. ἐξωμολόγησα; fut. mid. ἐξομολογήσομαι; aor. mid. ἐξωμολογησάμην LXX (quotable since III b.c.—Mitt-Wilck. II/2, 20, 18; 37, 17—PHib 30, 18 [300–271 b.c.]; also LXX, pseudepigr., Philo, Joseph.).
① to indicate acceptance of an offer or proposal, promise, consent, act., abs. Lk 22:6 (the act. is found as rarely [perh. Alex. Aphr., An. Mant. II 1 p. 168, 15] as the pass. [perh. SIG 685, 95]).
② to make an admission of wrong-doing/sin, confess, admit, mid. (Plut., Eum. 594 [17, 7], Anton. 943 [59, 3] τ. ἀλήθειαν, Stoic. Repugn. 17 p. 1042a; Sus 14; Jos., Bell. 1, 625, Ant. 8, 256) τὶ someth. (POslo 17, 14 [136 a.d.] τὸ ἀληθές; Cyranides p. 100, 18 πάντα ὅσα ἔπραξεν; Orig., C. Cels. 2, 11, 30 τὸ ἡμαρτημένον) τὰς ἁμαρτίας (Jos., Ant. 8, 129; s. the ins in Steinleitner, nos. 13, 5; 23, 2; 24, 11; 25, 10) Mt 3:6; Mk 1:5 (cp. 1QS 1:24–26); Js 5:16 (s. PAlthaus, Zahn Festgabe 1928, 1ff); Hv 1, 1, 3; Hs 9, 23, 4. τὰς ἁ. τῷ κυρίῳ confess sins to the Lord Hv 3, 1, 5, cp. 6. τὰ παραπτώματα ἐν ἐκκλησίᾳ confess transgressions in the congregation D 4:14. περὶ τῶν παραπτωμάτων make a confession of transgressions 1 Cl 51:3. ἐπὶ τ. ἁμαρτίαις for sins B 19:12. Abs. make a confession of sins Ac 19:18; 2 Cl 8:3. W. dat. of the one to whom sins are confessed 1 Cl 52:1, 2 (w. similarity in form to Ps 7:18; 117:19 and sim. Ps passages, but not=praise because of 1 Cl 51:3 [s. 4 below]).—JSchnitzer, D. Beichte im Lichte d. Religionsgesch.: Ztschr. f. Völkerpsychol. 6, 1930, 94–105; RPettazzoni, La confessione dei Peccati II ’35.
③ to declare openly in acknowledgment, profess, acknowledge, mid. (PHib 30, s. above; POxy 1473, 9; Lucian, Herm. 75) w. ὅτι foll. Phil 2:11 (Is 45:23; s. 4 below).—Nägeli 67.
④ fr. the mngs. ‘confess’ and ‘profess’ there arose, as Rtzst., Erlösungsmyst. 252 shows, the more general sense to praise, in acknowledgment of divine beneficence and majesty (so mostly LXX; TestJob 40:2 πρὸς τὸν πατέρα ) w. dat. of the one praised (oft. LXX; TestSol 1:5; Philo, Leg. All. 1, 80) σοί (2 Km 22:50; 1 Ch 29:13; Ps 85:12; 117:28 al.; Did., Gen. 60, 20) Mt 11:25=Lk 10:21 (s. Norden, Agn. Th. 277–308; JWeiss, GHeinrici Festschr. 1914, 120ff; TArvedson,[/indent]

You should read the new post I just put up about how if we start with the wrong idea it’s harder to come to the correct conclusion.

 

[Der Alte]

You should read the new post I just put up about how if we start with the wrong idea it’s harder to come to the correct conclusion.

Read that while looking in a mirror.

 

[Der Alte]

You are so focused on “gladly “ that you didn’t even address the what I wrote. I know that’s it’s easier to distract attention elsewhere, but would you address what I wrote? Take out the word gladly I don’t care , but address the question.

The "gladly" is false there is nothing to consider after that. Check the definition I posted above. That represents between 120 to 160 years of combined scholarship which cites 40-50 sources from which the correct definition was determined. If you can produce a source which exceeds that let me know.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

The "gladly" is false there is nothing to consider after that. Check the definition I posted above. That represents between 120 to 160 years of combined scholarship which cites 40-50 sources from which the correct definition was determined. If you can produce a source which exceeds that let me know.

What are you so afraid of ? Look at what’s posted skip the gladly if it makes you feel better.

 

[Der Alte]

What are you so afraid of ? Look at what’s posted skip the gladly if it makes you feel better.

One cannot just "skip" falsehood.

Joshua 10:22-26​

(22) Then Joshua said, “Open the mouth of the cave and bring those five kings out to me from the cave.”​

(23) And they did so, and brought those five kings out to him from the cave, the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, and the king of Eglon.​

(24) And when they brought those kings out to Joshua, Joshua summoned all the men of Israel and said to the chiefs of the men of war who had gone with him, “Come near; put your feet on the necks of these kings.” Then they came near and put their feet on their necks.​

(25) And Joshua said to them, “Do not be afraid or dismayed; be strong and courageous. For thus the LORD will do to all your enemies against whom you fight.”​

(26) And afterward Joshua struck them and put them to death, and he hanged them on five trees. And they hung on the trees until evening.​

Joshua making the enemy kings his footstool but they didn't become faithful followers

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Doesn't really address my posts. When do the footstools of Jesus become faithful followers? Which particular scripture shows that?

What part of EVERY KNEE AND EVERY TONGUE do you not get , I didn’t write this scripture clearly says EVERY. Maybe only those who don’t have knees or tongues are the ones you are talking about.

 

[Der Alte]

What part of EVERY KNEE AND EVERY TONGUE do you not get , I didn’t write this scripture clearly says EVERY. Maybe only those who don’t have knees or tongues are the ones you are talking about.

Some will be bowing and confessing because of their faith but others will be made Jesus footstools and confessing when it its too late. see Joshua 10:22-26 and Psalms 110:1, Matthew 22:44, Mark 12:36, Luke 20:43, Acts 2:35, Hebrews 1:13, Hebrews 10:13

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

What part of EVERY KNEE AND EVERY TONGUE do you not get , I didn’t write this scripture clearly says EVERY. Maybe only those who don’t have knees or tongues are the ones you are talking about.

Der Alte:
Some will be bowing and confessing because of their faith but others will be made Jesus footstools and confessing when it its too late. see Joshua 10:22-26 and Psalms 110:1, Matthew 22:44, Mark 12:36, Luke 20:43, Acts 2:35, Hebrews 1:13, Hebrews 10:13

My reply:
Come on my friend … you have been all over Jeff for using “gladly” that is not in the text. Check the passage again, “some” is NOT in the text, but I’m positive I see the word ALL. Once again, your theology is causing you to interpret the text other than the plain meaning given by Paul. I can’t remember, but it seems to me I recall Paul was quoting some kind of passage in the Old Testament? Do you remember the passage? I don’t think I remember seeing the word “some” in that passage either. How about you adjust your theology to support the plain meaning of the text instead of reinterpreting the text to fit your theology? You are all over the place with your interpretation … YIKES!

blessings

 

[Der Alte]

Der Alte: Some will be bowing and confessing because of their faith but others will be made Jesus footstools and confessing when it its too late. see Joshua 10:22-26 and Psalms 110:1, Matthew 22:44, Mark 12:36, Luke 20:43, Acts 2:35, Hebrews 1:13, Hebrews 10:13
My reply:
Come on my friend … you have been all over Jeff for using “gladly” that is not in the text. Check the passage again, “some” is NOT in the text, but I’m positive I see the word ALL. Once again, your theology is causing you to interpret the text other than the plain meaning given by Paul. I can’t remember, but it seems to me I recall Paul was quoting some kind of passage in the Old Testament? Do you remember the passage? I don’t think I remember seeing the word “some” in that passage either. How about you adjust your theology to support the plain meaning of the text instead of reinterpreting the text to fit your theology? You are all over the place with your interpretation … YIKES!

blessings

You didn't read the vss. I listed. Joshua 10:22-26 and Psalms 110:1, Matthew 22:44, Mark 12:36, Luke 20:43, Acts 2:35, Hebrews 1:13, Hebrews 10:13
Jeremiah 13:11-14​

(11) For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.​

(12) Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?​

(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.​

(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

When God does this to Israel they will be on their knees pleading to God.

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many [NOT a few] will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus does this to many they will be on their knees pleading.

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

You didn't read the vss. I listed. Joshua 10:22-26 and Psalms 110:1, Matthew 22:44, Mark 12:36, Luke 20:43, Acts 2:35, Hebrews 1:13, Hebrews 10:13​

Jeremiah 13:11-14​

(11) For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.​

(12) Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?​

(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.​

(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

When God does this to Israel they will be on their knees pleading to God.

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many [NOT a few] will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus does this to many they will be on their knees pleading.

It is just simply so sad how you approach what should be a give and take discussion founded on mutual respect. It is not.

blessings

 

[Lukaris]

It doesn’t seem like the most ancient Christians, who spoke the ancient languages of words debated at times in scholarship, believed in universalism.

What Early Christians believed about Hell & Eternal Punishment

While I believe there is much we do not know about God’s judgment outside of salvation by grace, there are those He indicates forgiveness to beyond what we know ( Matthew 12:30-33) & ultimately says the good will be saved but the evil will not ( John 5:22-30).

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Some will be bowing and confessing because of their faith but others will be made Jesus footstools and confessing when it its too late. see Joshua 10:22-26 and Psalms 110:1, Matthew 22:44, Mark 12:36, Luke 20:43, Acts 2:35, Hebrews 1:13, Hebrews 10:13

So you think Jesus takes forced and not sincere confessions ? Not my Jesus he wins over his enemies with love and turns them into loyal followers. You know the whole love your enemies thing I read in a book somewhere.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

It doesn’t seem like the most ancient Christians, who spoke the ancient languages of words debated at times in scholarship, believed in universalism.

What Early Christians believed about Hell & Eternal Punishment

While I believe there is much we do not know about God’s judgment outside of salvation by grace, there are those He indicates forgiveness to beyond what we know ( Matthew 12:30-33) & ultimately says the good will be saved but the evil will not ( John 5:22-30).

Have you actually looked up the early church fathers who believed in Christian Universal Redemption? There are more than just a few. Gregory of Nyssa, one of the framers of the Nicene creed and was given the title of father of the fathers. Christian Universal Redemption didn’t become frowned upon until Augustine with his Latin translation of scripture and that tradition has continued through the Catholic Church and then into the Protestant Church.