The Aquarium Argument: Why the universe wasn't created for humans.

[SkyWriting]

I have not heard that. How would one measure the size of God?

Scientifically, the result can be considered less than the Cause of the effect.
So scientifically speaking, God would be larger than our Cosmos, if we assume some losses in the transformation.

 

[pitabread]

Scientifically, the result can be considered less than the Cause of the effect.
So scientifically, God would be larger than our Cosmos.

There is nothing scientific about that claim. Unless you're trying to argue that God is bound by the laws of physics?

 

[SkyWriting]

There is nothing scientific about that claim. Unless you're trying to argue that God is bound by the laws of physics?

Yes, the laws of physics represent God's will.
They are manifest of Him.
No, He does not violate them.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Yes, the laws of physics represent God's will.
They are manifest of Him.
No, He does not violate them.

So where does that leave the biblical stories of miracles, etc. - are they just stories (i.e. not real), or have the laws of physics changed, or can we expect to discover those laws and do miracles ourselves?

 

[Gottservant]

Occasionally the claim comes up that the universe was somehow invented entirely for the benefit of the human race: a bunch of teeny-tiny humans squirreled away on a teeny-tiny planet in a corner of a single galaxy among hundreds of billions of galaxies. For point of reference, the current size of the universe is an estimated 93 billion light-years in diameter.

[...]

So why would anyone create a universe 93 billion light-years in diameter to house a bunch of tiny humans on a teeny-tiny planet?

(Note: I fully recognize this is kind of a dumb argument. But I thought it was worth making just to give a sense of scale to the size of the universe.)

God is not interested asking Man, what he (Man) thinks the appropriate dimensions of Creation were.

 

[pitabread]

Yes, the laws of physics represent God's will.
They are manifest of Him.
No, He does not violate them.

So no miracles then?

 

[Tinker Grey]

Apparently, a pebble cannot cause an avalanche.

 

[SkyWriting]

So no miracles then?

There are non-physical miracles regarding how and when God answers prayers.
But not in the usual sense. And the fact that Nuclear Bombs only convert a few grams of matter. Matter is pretty powerful stuff to leave sitting around.

 

[SkyWriting]

Apparently, a pebble cannot cause an avalanche.

God is not a pebble in most religions.

 

[SkyWriting]

So where does that leave the biblical stories of miracles, etc. - are they just stories (i.e. not real), or have the laws of physics changed, or can we expect to discover those laws and do miracles ourselves?

We can discover answered prayer and miracles.
I cover exactly how in my sig file.
Once you experience it, then you'll understand.

 

[pitabread]

There are non-physical miracles regarding how and when God answers prayers.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

Plus, the miracles that Jesus allegedly performed were definitely physical. Which, if Jesus is bound by the laws of fixes, they shouldn't have been able to perform.

 

[SkyWriting]

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

Plus, the miracles that Jesus allegedly performed were definitely physical. Which, if Jesus is bound by the laws of fixes, they shouldn't have been able to perform.

I don't know if they were defiantly physical.
I detail the steps to miracles:
Do you know God through interactive prayer? - Steps 1, 2, & 3

When the scriptures say "separated the light from the dark" is that a physical description?
We can imagine it was or wasn't.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

We can discover answered prayer and miracles.

Can you clarify how that answers the question? the question was: Are the bible stories just stories (i.e. not real), or have the laws of physics changed, or can we expect to discover those laws and do miracles ourselves?

I ask because you said God doesn't violate the laws of physics, and the bible miracle stories violate the laws of physics as we know them today.

 

[Tom 1]

Occasionally the claim comes up that the universe was somehow invented entirely for the benefit of the human race: a bunch of teeny-tiny humans squirreled away on a teeny-tiny planet in a corner of a single galaxy among hundreds of billions of galaxies. For point of reference, the current size of the universe is an estimated 93 billion light-years in diameter.

In comparison, I decided to compare what this would be like with creating an equivalent sized aquarium for a handful of small fish. I currently have said group of fish in a modest-sized 20 gallon tank that is 2 feet wide.

Scaling up the fish tank relative to the size of Earth in comparison to the entire universe, the equivalent size of aquarium for those fish would be about 7 light-years in diameter.

To put that size in comparison, our entire solar system is only 1.5 light-years in diameter. The nearest star is only ~4 light-years away. This would be a fish tank big enough to house multiple solar systems.

Would it make sense to build an aquarium 7 light years in diameter to house a handful of fish that are otherwise comfortably housed in a 20 gallon tank? Nope. That seems a highly impractical and rather wasteful use of space.

So why would anyone create a universe 93 billion light-years in diameter to house a bunch of tiny humans on a teeny-tiny planet?

(Note: I fully recognize this is kind of a dumb argument. But I thought it was worth making just to give a sense of scale to the size of the universe.)

Once when I was running a bath for my niece she said 'make sure you fill it up, I want to be able to splash about!'. Maybe we just got some splash room?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Once when I was running a bath for my niece she said 'make sure you fill it up, I want to be able to splash about!'. Maybe we just got some splash room?

How much 'splash room' do you think we need? The Voyager 1 probe has reached 14.5 billion miles after 44 years and is still only just past the boundary of the solar system. The galaxy is a million trillion miles across, and just another speck in the universe...

 

[Tom 1]

How much 'splash room' do you think we need? The Voyager 1 probe has reached 14.5 billion miles after 44 years and is still only just past the boundary of the solar system. The galaxy is a million trillion miles across, and just another speck in the universe...

Maybe I’d like room to store my collection of rubber ducks.

 

[SkyWriting]

Can you clarify how that answers the question? the question was: Are the bible stories just stories (i.e. not real), or have the laws of physics changed, or can we expect to discover those laws and do miracles ourselves?

I ask because you said God doesn't violate the laws of physics, and the bible miracle stories violate the laws of physics as we know them today.

The miracles in the Bible did not violate the laws of physics.
Reality is based on perception, and God is the premier expert at changing people's perception's.
As I explain in my sig file, God changes the mind of man to match what He has already implemented as His perfect plan. And He did all this before time began.

The miracles of God happen 24 hours a day. Though prayer God gives us the perception to recognize His perfect plans. And they can be startling.

 

[SkyWriting]

How much 'splash room' do you think we need? The Voyager 1 probe has reached 14.5 billion miles after 44 years and is still only just past the boundary of the solar system. The galaxy is a million trillion miles across, and just another speck in the universe...

In the Spirit world, we can move faster than light speed.
If we were only physical beings, then the rest of the Cosmos would be wasted.

 

[Tinker Grey]

In the Spirit world, we can move faster than light speed.

How do you know this?

 

[SkyWriting]

Occasionally the claim comes up that the universe was somehow invented entirely for the benefit of the human race: a bunch of teeny-tiny humans squirreled away on a teeny-tiny planet in a corner of a single galaxy among hundreds of billions of galaxies. For point of reference, the current size of the universe is an estimated 93 billion light-years in diameter.

Spirit can move freely with no physical or time restraints. So the Cosmos only looks big due to our current limitations in this life.