the Apostle Paul kept the Torah!

[parsonsmom]

nope, peter, paul, barnabas, and the rest of the jews were living as gentiles in antioch..

love the amplified...

gal 4:12 Brethren, I beg of you, become as I am [free from the bondage of Jewish ritualism and ordinances], for I also have become as you are [[e]a Gentile]. You did me no wrong [[f]in the days when I first came to you; do not do it now].

==================================================

Shalom;
A born again believer have A covenant with God, but as any promise or provission to A covenant, there are are things we must do to approriate and activate its blessings. there are contractual obligations we have to fulfill in order to have the promises and of the covenant; in other words follow his instructions.
There are certain conditions we are rquired for these things to be active in our lives. It's like any other contract between any two individual: each person must do certain things to fulfill the contract.
For instance,

What does it say? The Word; God's message in Christ is near you, on your lips and in your heart; that is, the Word; the message, the basis and object of faith which we preach,Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe; adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth that God raised Him from the dead; you will be saved. For with the heart a person believes; adheres to, trusts in the , and relies on Christ, and so is justified; declared righteous, acceptable to God, and with the mouth he confesses; declares openly and speaks out freely his faith and confirms his salvation. But what does it say? The Word God's message in Christ is near you, on your lips and in your heart; that is, the Word; the message, the basis and object of faith which we preach, Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe; adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart a person believes; adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ and so is justified; declared righteous, acceptable to God, and with the mouth he confesses; declares openly and speaks out freely his faith and confirms his salvation.

But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law; when He was hung on the cross, He took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing; For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Bornagain Believers; Gentiles were considered heathern; with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith here’s an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or amend an irrevocable agreement, so it is in this case. God"YHWH" gave the promises to Abraham and his child; And notice that the Scripture doesn’t say “to his children,” as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says “to his child”—and that, of course, means Christ. This is what I am thrying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise. For if the inheritance could be received by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God’s promise. But God graciously gave it to Abraham as a promise. He was justified by faith. Respectfully,parsonsmom

 

[weathered]

==================================================

Shalom;
A born again believer have A covenant with God, but as any promise or provission to A covenant, there are are things we must do to approriate and activate its blessings. there are contractual obligations we have to fulfill in order to have the promises and of the covenant; in other words follow his instructions.
There are certain conditions we are rquired for these things to be active in our lives. It's like any other contract between any two individual: each person must do certain things to fulfill the contract.
For instance,

What does it say? The Word; God's message in Christ is near you, on your lips and in your heart; that is, the Word; the message, the basis and object of faith which we preach,Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe; adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth that God raised Him from the dead; you will be saved. For with the heart a person believes; adheres to, trusts in the , and relies on Christ, and so is justified; declared righteous, acceptable to God, and with the mouth he confesses; declares openly and speaks out freely his faith and confirms his salvation. But what does it say? The Word God's message in Christ is near you, on your lips and in your heart; that is, the Word; the message, the basis and object of faith which we preach, Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe; adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart a person believes; adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ and so is justified; declared righteous, acceptable to God, and with the mouth he confesses; declares openly and speaks out freely his faith and confirms his salvation.

But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law; when He was hung on the cross, He took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing; For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Bornagain Believers; Gentiles were considered heathern; with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith here’s an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or amend an irrevocable agreement, so it is in this case. God"YHWH" gave the promises to Abraham and his child; And notice that the Scripture doesn’t say “to his children,” as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says “to his child”—and that, of course, means Christ. This is what I am thrying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise. For if the inheritance could be received by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God’s promise. But God graciously gave it to Abraham as a promise. He was justified by faith. Respectfully,parsonsmom

What do you think about Jame's take on it?



Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[weathered]

Many say baptism is needed to be saved. Is this not a work? We must confess with our mouth, again is this not a work? Isn't this basically what James is saying? Works cannot be boasted in, but faith without action is dead, i can say i believe but if my actions don't prove it then my faith is not real.

I believe God so i repent from my sin, i weep and mourn over it and i pray that God abide in me and change me. Is that prayer not a work too? I struggle against sin with all my strength not because i think it will make me righteous but because God said so, that is faith justified by works. Correct?

 

[parsonsmom]

paul could not live torah, he just rebuked peter for declaring the gentiles unclean, when peter reverted back to torah, we need to forget the torah.

====================================================


Do you understand what torah is.?

Jesus said do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them, For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook, identifying certain Hebrew letters will pass from the Law until all things, it foreshadows are accomplished. Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least important of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least, important in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you,unless your righteousness your uprightness and your right standing with God is more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the whole person spirit,soul and body; the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.The precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is pure and bright, enlightening the eyes. The reverent fear or obedience,to the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the ordinances of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, even than much fine gold; they are sweeter also than honey and drippings from the honeycomb. Moreover, by them is Your servant warned, reminded, illuminated, and instructed; and in keeping them there is great reward. Respectfully; Parsonsmom.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What do you think about Jame's take on it?

Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

I rather like Jesus's take on it

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus
Abraham and the Rich Man

Matthew 3:9 "and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as [our] father.'
For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.

Luke 16:24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue;
for I am tormented in this flame.'

 

[Standing Up]

Like I mentioned to your pal Froggy...there is ZERO mention iN Scriptures that Peter, or better yet, any true believer ate any unclean foods.

It's ALL assumed.

Not according to you.

TZ: "11. But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
12. For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision.

TZ: What was Peter doing here? He was behaving just like a sinner. Just like a Gentile."

 

[weathered]

I rather like Jesus's take on it

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus
Abraham and the Rich Man

Matthew 3:9 "and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as [our] father.'
For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.

Luke 16:24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue;
for I am tormented in this flame.'

That seems to avoid the question.

 

[Standing Up]

==================================================

Shalom;
A born again believer have A covenant with God, but as any promise or provission to A covenant, there are are things we must do to approriate and activate its blessings. there are contractual obligations we have to fulfill in order to have the promises and of the covenant; in other words follow his instructions. -snip-

There are two types of covenants. There is one kind as you describe (the Old Covenant made at Sinai is an example; the if-then, if you do X, then God does Y).

But as to the second kind, do you think the covenant with Abraham was conditional on Abraham's part? How was it Abraham somehow accomplished the task of making Sarah fruitful in her old age? She was barren. How did Abraham fulfill God's promise?

The New Covenant is likewise a covenant of God. Here's a great verse. Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.

 

[parsonsmom]

Many say baptism is needed to be saved. Is this not a work? We must confess with our mouth, again is this not a work? Isn't this basically what James is saying? Works cannot be boasted in, but faith without action is dead, i can say i believe but if my actions don't prove it then my faith is not real.

I believe God so i repent from my sin, i weep and mourn over it and i pray that God abide in me and change me. Is that prayer not a work too? I struggle against sin with all my strength not because i think it will make me righteous but because God said so, that is faith justified by works. Correct?

===================================================

This is obedience to YHWH'S Word. Romans 19,

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Parsonsmom

 

[tzadik]

Paul said meat doesn't destroy Gods work, and i don't see peter contradicting him or rebuking him. We are free from the law, Paul and James both refer to liberty and no apostle teaches that we observe any holy day or food law that i can see.

once again...more assumptions.

Think about this for a split second.

Paul said that he believed everything that was according to the Law of God. He commended the Bereans for not being "naive", but instead comparing EVERYTHING taught to them with what was previously instructed by God in the Tanakh ("OT").

So you must understand that everything that any "NT" believer taught, spoke, or stated, had to be seen in the light of the TRUTH of the Tanakh.

So if Paul is talking about eating and drinking, he is talking about it in the context of what God has instructed as edible and non-edible.

If he spoke "outside of this context", he wouldn't be able to say what he did in Acts 24:14 or commend the Bereans for what he did in Acts 17:11.

You are trying to divorce the "NT" from their "OT" foundation.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

I rather like Jesus's take on it

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus
Abraham and the Rich Man
​

That seems to avoid the question.

Jesus asked a few questions Himself.
Did you look at the link I gave?

Mark 11:27 Then they came again to Jerusalem. And as He was walking in the temple, the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders came to Him
28 And they said to Him, "By what authority are You doing these things? And who gave You this authority to do these things?"
29 But Jesus answered and said to them, "I also will ask you one question; then answer Me,
and I will tell you by what authority I do these things:

 

[tzadik]

====================================================


Do you understand what torah is.?

Jesus said do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them, For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook, identifying certain Hebrew letters will pass from the Law until all things, it foreshadows are accomplished. Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least important of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least, important in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you,unless your righteousness your uprightness and your right standing with God is more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the whole person spirit,soul and body; the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.The precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is pure and bright, enlightening the eyes. The reverent fear or obedience,to the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the ordinances of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, even than much fine gold; they are sweeter also than honey and drippings from the honeycomb. Moreover, by them is Your servant warned, reminded, illuminated, and instructed; and in keeping them there is great reward. Respectfully; Parsonsmom.

 

[tzadik]

Not according to you.

TZ: "11. But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
12. For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision.

TZ: What was Peter doing here? He was behaving just like a sinner. Just like a Gentile."

More assumptions.

Where in that verse does it say that he ate unclean food??

Next you're gonna tell me that Messiah ate pork chops in Matthew 9 and Mark 2!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

If he spoke "outside of this context", he wouldn't be able to say what he did in Acts 24:14 or commend the Bereans for what he did in Acts 17:11.

You are trying to divorce the "NT" from their "OT" foundation.

The Jews of today lay their foundation on the OC Moses, not on the NC of Jesus or Paul

1 Corin 3:10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

LUKE 16:30 "And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' " (NKJV)

 

[weathered]

===================================================

This is obedience to YHWH'S Word. Romans 19,

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Parsonsmom

Thanks, i know its not the easiest topic to pin down, i just wanted to bring it up.

 

[Standing Up]

TZ: "11. But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
12. For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision.

TZ: What was Peter doing here? He was behaving just like a sinner. Just like a Gentile."

More assumptions.

Where in that verse does it say that he ate unclean food??

Next you're gonna tell me that Messiah ate pork chops in Matthew 9 and Mark 2!

So, when it says Peter ate with the Gentiles and you say he was behaving just like the sinners, it means what?

Peter was eating unclean food.
Peter was eating clean food.

 

[weathered]

Jesus asked a few questions Himself.
Did you look at the link I gave?

Mark 11:27 Then they came again to Jerusalem. And as He was walking in the temple, the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders came to Him
28 And they said to Him, "By what authority are You doing these things? And who gave You this authority to do these things?"
29 But Jesus answered and said to them, "I also will ask you one question; then answer Me,
and I will tell you by what authority I do these things:

No i didn't look at it, maybe i should have. People please forgive me today, i haven't eaten much its taking its toll on me, i have a noisy neighbor that gets on my nerves and irritates my ears because i have hearing damage, my water is not good to drink and i haven't gotten much sleep as i probably should have. Its all good, don't worry, i'll be OK. Im not making excuses just asking that you all forgive me.


My apologies.

 

[tzadik]

TZ: "11. But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
12. For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision.

TZ: What was Peter doing here? He was behaving just like a sinner. Just like a Gentile."



So, when it says Peter ate with the Gentiles and you say he was behaving just like the sinners, it means what?

Peter was eating unclean food.
Peter was eating clean food.

Sir.

The behaving like a sinner had NOTHING to do with what he was eating! Are you serious right now? Did you seriously misread my entire post?

Peter's sinful behavior was the hypocrisy and deceit, coupled by his shunning of those he previously ate with, following a personal vision by the Lord about that VERY issue.

He was behaving like a Gentile (as per Matthew 5), shunning the 'outsiders' and holding himself aloof.

"For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision."

 

[weathered]

Just ignore me. Im just complaining. We all have toughs days, things could be worse and they will get better.

 

[weathered]

I rebuke myself. We learn by Pauls example and through days like this. Im blessed with much so don't pity me. i don't deserve it. Just love me that's all i want.


Php 4:10 But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity.
Php 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
Php 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.